Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[Frozen Angel]

We of the river clan* have reached a consensus.
Vote Mastina.

*it’s the royal we.

there were no discussions in river clan about mastina.

Why would you act like its a general conscious?

"royal we" implies he actually just means himself but yes it was confusing

i actually didn't mind bell's mastina vote; i think he is coming at it from a meta perspective, not saying meltdowns are always scummy. i think he and norwe have had the best mastina votes as they take mastina into account. many of the other votes are just voting mastina for being mastina and maybe they'll get lucky this game.

Is royal we an English term for me?

what is that meta based on though. can't let people just say a random reason and then tag it with meta and not be held accountable for it.

i don't think that meta read is real. assuming someone is always having a melt down as scum even if they are the most dramatic person possible is such a fallacy read if its a true read in first place.

[Bell]

even though you can't possibly make a meta read based on emotional meltdown in general. we all are humans. unless if you're saying mastina will never genuinely have a meltdown and is always faking it which is a pretty weird take that makes absolutely no sense

Okay. I know you’re excited to do some debating(tm) but this is a poor interpretation and argument.
Which is fair I’m fairly vague. But like, no.

I wanna drive Mastina up so that they at least claim and decide from there.
I’m at work right now so I’ll respond to some of this later.
But I’m surprised this is the direct Angel decided to go and sort of disappointed honestly since they kinda talked up their method and then they hit me lol.

[Charloux]

Mastina is actively interpreting info in a way to fit his reads.
I kinda emulated that as well for my read on him.

[Bell]

I’ve posted that particular opinion about Mastina in multiple games even Mastina won’t deny that I’ve done so or that I’ve voted them before for similar stuff in similar games. If they do they’re going to be scum claiming.
This argument is dead on arrival.

[Frozen Angel]

even though you can't possibly make a meta read based on emotional meltdown in general. we all are humans. unless if you're saying mastina will never genuinely have a meltdown and is always faking it which is a pretty weird take that makes absolutely no sense

Okay. I know you’re excited to do some debating(tm) but this is a poor interpretation and argument.
Which is fair I’m fairly vague. But like, no.

I wanna drive Mastina up so that they at least claim and decide from there.
I’m at work right now so I’ll respond to some of this later.
But I’m surprised this is the direct Angel decided to go and sort of disappointed honestly since they kinda talked up their method and then they hit me lol.

Well I'm just trying to understand how you connect the dots in your head to make the conclusions you made if I'm interpreting your moves wrong or are describing them wrong help me see your intentions and where you were coming from.

so take your time but I wanna know what that meta read is based on

[Frozen Angel]

Mastina is actively interpreting info in a way to fit his reads.
I kinda emulated that as well for my read on him.

show me instances of this

[Frozen Angel]

and again how that cant be from a town mind set

anyone assumes they are correct and will first try to fit in new information in their initial impressions. some are more pushover and some can be more stubborn with their initial reads. how is that behavior alignment indicative in your opinion?

[Dannflor]

Mastina is actively interpreting info in a way to fit his reads.
I kinda emulated that as well for my read on him.

mastina is she/her

[Charloux]

You’re not just an clown, you’re the entire circus.

Btw Norwee's scumslipping here by saying this while voting me--

Scum clown isn't a thing.

I can't be a clown and be scum.

I can be only one of the two.

Norwee's vote on me says scum, Norwee's statement I am a clown gives the true read: he knows I'm town.

Why on earth is calling someone a clown AI? You are implying scum are always criminal masterminds who never make mistakes here.
You are just twisting things around to fit your read. Oh Norwegian called me a scum clown, that doesn't exist so they are scum-slipping. It also fits my read on him. Ah that also means he confirmed i'm town guys.

mastina do you not have multiple abilities

I have one ability.

Clans aren't an ability. Everyone has that. It's not a PR if everyone has it. Saying a neighborhood is an ability in a game where everyone has it, is basically like saying a Vanilla Townie with the power of their voice and vote, is an ability. It's literally something even a VT would have.

Being an apprentice aren't an ability. That's a restriction on the abilities. A gate.

I have only one ability. Gated by being an apprentice. But only the one.

Titus doesn't have it. Did you ignore her intentionally so it can fit your read or are you implying titus is scum as well?
And since Titus doesn't have it, by your own logic your only ability is the neighbourhood. Why don't you have another ability huh?

Scum clown isn't a thing.

oh come on you don't believe this

(I don't know how to respond to this without getting banned; every term I want to get would get me at minimum a warning but:)

Yes, I do.

There. is. no. such. thing. as. a. scum. clown. Clowns are specifically town, because you don't call scum clowns--you call them scum. You can call them incompetent scum. You can call them bad scum. You can call them flailing scum. You can call them laughably bad scum. You can call them all sorts of things.

But not a scum clown. That's not a thing.

Clown is, specifically, a town insult. It is insulting a player's capabilities as town by saying that they are a clown.
Players don't call scum, clown.

They can go, "you're either scum, or a clown"!
That's literally a phrase that people speak.

But they don't say "you're a clown" while THINKING someone is scum.
That's something that is a scumslip. Scum do it disproportionately often. Like, 90+% of the time, often. Genuinely one of the strongest scumtells, scumtell level of scumtell.

It's not semantics.

It's basic psychology.

You don't call someone who you think is scum, making posts that you think are bad, a clown.
You call someone who you think is scum, making posts that you think are bad, scum.
You call someone who you think is town, making posts that you think are bad, a clown.

The two do not mix. Half of one and half of the other is thus, a perspective slip.

You got called out for bs and are tryharding it

My comments were deliberately made that way, but the general meaning should be obvious

[Charloux]

Mastina is actively interpreting info in a way to fit his reads.
I kinda emulated that as well for my read on him.

mastina is she/her

Oops

[Frozen Angel]

You’re not just an clown, you’re the entire circus.

Btw Norwee's scumslipping here by saying this while voting me--

Scum clown isn't a thing.

I can't be a clown and be scum.

I can be only one of the two.

Norwee's vote on me says scum, Norwee's statement I am a clown gives the true read: he knows I'm town.

Why on earth is calling someone a clown AI? You are implying scum are always criminal masterminds who never make mistakes here.
You are just twisting things around to fit your read. Oh Norwegian called me a scum clown, that doesn't exist so they are scum-slipping. It also fits my read on him. Ah that also means he confirmed i'm town guys.

mastina do you not have multiple abilities

I have one ability.

Clans aren't an ability. Everyone has that. It's not a PR if everyone has it. Saying a neighborhood is an ability in a game where everyone has it, is basically like saying a Vanilla Townie with the power of their voice and vote, is an ability. It's literally something even a VT would have.

Being an apprentice aren't an ability. That's a restriction on the abilities. A gate.

I have only one ability. Gated by being an apprentice. But only the one.

Titus doesn't have it. Did you ignore her intentionally so it can fit your read or are you implying titus is scum as well?
And since Titus doesn't have it, by your own logic your only ability is the neighbourhood. Why don't you have another ability huh?

Scum clown isn't a thing.

oh come on you don't believe this

(I don't know how to respond to this without getting banned; every term I want to get would get me at minimum a warning but:)

Yes, I do.

There. is. no. such. thing. as. a. scum. clown. Clowns are specifically town, because you don't call scum clowns--you call them scum. You can call them incompetent scum. You can call them bad scum. You can call them flailing scum. You can call them laughably bad scum. You can call them all sorts of things.

But not a scum clown. That's not a thing.

Clown is, specifically, a town insult. It is insulting a player's capabilities as town by saying that they are a clown.
Players don't call scum, clown.

They can go, "you're either scum, or a clown"!
That's literally a phrase that people speak.

But they don't say "you're a clown" while THINKING someone is scum.
That's something that is a scumslip. Scum do it disproportionately often. Like, 90+% of the time, often. Genuinely one of the strongest scumtells, scumtell level of scumtell.

It's not semantics.

It's basic psychology.

You don't call someone who you think is scum, making posts that you think are bad, a clown.
You call someone who you think is scum, making posts that you think are bad, scum.
You call someone who you think is town, making posts that you think are bad, a clown.

The two do not mix. Half of one and half of the other is thus, a perspective slip.

You got called out for bs and are tryharding it

My comments were deliberately made that way, but the general meaning should be obvious

So 1 - she is insulted by someone who she was scum reading, she makes a weird comment in return that shows her passion and that she doesn't wanna change her read on the slot (she was insulted so makes sense to feel that way) it doesn't mean she had an inconsistent behavioral pattern there. what about her reaction is an intentional scum move in comparison to a possible town move?

2 - She said everyone and she meant almost everyone very clearly. she also clearly didn't mean her own neighborhood. her impression is we all have skills that are locked behind being an apprentice. It's a mech spec that actually more likely to come from town? I don't get why you think she is trying to fit a narrative in there. she is just saying what she thinks about the setup and it actually makes sense from her view if she is town.

the only way this can be from a scum mind set is if scum is familiar with how the mechs work/are also apperentices, and she got the impression rest of town is like that so she acted like that in purpose to look innocent. I just don't see any clues for it to be like that

[Alisae]

Ok so I’m valid in what I am seeing but also it can still come from scum cool thanks FA.

@Bell I appreciate your sense of humor

[Alisae]

Wanted to see what bell had to say about the comment FA made on norwee that line of dialogue is something I was interested to see unfold

[Bell]

even though you can't possibly make a meta read based on emotional meltdown in general. we all are humans. unless if you're saying mastina will never genuinely have a meltdown and is always faking it which is a pretty weird take that makes absolutely no sense

Okay. I know you’re excited to do some debating(tm) but this is a poor interpretation and argument.
Which is fair I’m fairly vague. But like, no.

I wanna drive Mastina up so that they at least claim and decide from there.
I’m at work right now so I’ll respond to some of this later.
But I’m surprised this is the direct Angel decided to go and sort of disappointed honestly since they kinda talked up their method and then they hit me lol.

Well I'm just trying to understand how you connect the dots in your head to make the conclusions you made if I'm interpreting your moves wrong or are describing them wrong help me see your intentions and where you were coming from.

so take your time but I wanna know what that meta read is based on

Are you asking me to tell you what I’ve already said in thread.
If you want links look for them yourself. I’m not worried about being caught I a lie, because it’s true regardless of my alignment. I have no incentive to pretend this isn’t a dud and a wasted use of your time to explore. Regardless of your alignment this game.

[Frozen Angel]

even though you can't possibly make a meta read based on emotional meltdown in general. we all are humans. unless if you're saying mastina will never genuinely have a meltdown and is always faking it which is a pretty weird take that makes absolutely no sense

Okay. I know you’re excited to do some debating(tm) but this is a poor interpretation and argument.
Which is fair I’m fairly vague. But like, no.

I wanna drive Mastina up so that they at least claim and decide from there.
I’m at work right now so I’ll respond to some of this later.
But I’m surprised this is the direct Angel decided to go and sort of disappointed honestly since they kinda talked up their method and then they hit me lol.

Well I'm just trying to understand how you connect the dots in your head to make the conclusions you made if I'm interpreting your moves wrong or are describing them wrong help me see your intentions and where you were coming from.

so take your time but I wanna know what that meta read is based on

Are you asking me to tell you what I’ve already said in thread.
If you want links look for them yourself. I’m not worried about being caught I a lie, because it’s true regardless of my alignment. I have no incentive to pretend this isn’t a dud and a wasted use of your time to explore. Regardless of your alignment this game.

I want to know why you think "when mastina has a melt down she is scum"

I don't have time to check all her games and all your games to investigate if you truly believe that or not. it was your claim so burden of its proof is on you?

[Charloux]

All i see is Mastina using the word clown to call norwegian scum who slipped and called her town; And a technicality to call Alisae scum.
This is not town mentality at all, but i admit i find it hard to see scum doing it either.
Her reads didn't make much sense to me since the beginning but i ignored it since there wasn't anything weird until post #1354
pedit:@FA

[Bell]

even though you can't possibly make a meta read based on emotional meltdown in general. we all are humans. unless if you're saying mastina will never genuinely have a meltdown and is always faking it which is a pretty weird take that makes absolutely no sense

Okay. I know you’re excited to do some debating(tm) but this is a poor interpretation and argument.
Which is fair I’m fairly vague. But like, no.

I wanna drive Mastina up so that they at least claim and decide from there.
I’m at work right now so I’ll respond to some of this later.
But I’m surprised this is the direct Angel decided to go and sort of disappointed honestly since they kinda talked up their method and then they hit me lol.

Well I'm just trying to understand how you connect the dots in your head to make the conclusions you made if I'm interpreting your moves wrong or are describing them wrong help me see your intentions and where you were coming from.

so take your time but I wanna know what that meta read is based on

Are you asking me to tell you what I’ve already said in thread.
If you want links look for them yourself. I’m not worried about being caught I a lie, because it’s true regardless of my alignment. I have no incentive to pretend this isn’t a dud and a wasted use of your time to explore. Regardless of your alignment this game.

I want to know why you think "when mastina has a melt down she is scum"

I don't have time to check all her games and all your games to investigate if you truly believe that or not. it was your claim so burden of its proof is on you?

I don’t need your vote, so I’m okay with not putting in the effort to dig up evidence of my own statements.
I know my reasoning is consistent and that there’s evidence of it I don’t need you to know that.

[Bell]

Uh, I think a shorter more clear sentence is that:
I know there is evidence of my statements in previous games and I can get this information whenever I like.
Therefore, I don’t need to bother until it becomes an issue.

My reasoning is what it is.
It would be cool if they flipped red this game and the meta read was correct.
But I could be wrong I haven’t claimed it’s 100% or anything just that I think Mastina is more likely than not scum this game based on my observances of them in this game based on previous behaviors in previous games.

As mentioned though, I think Mastina lacks a certain amount of flexibility it’s a wall they have trouble getting over and they’ve spoken about it at length in other games. Something I also won’t bother to source because I don’t wanna and I don’t gotta.

[Frozen Angel]

All i see is Mastina using the word clown to call norwegian scum who slipped and called her town; And a technicality to call Alisae scum.
This is not town mentality at all, but i admit i find it hard to see scum doing it either.
Her reads didn't make much sense to me since the beginning but i ignored it since there wasn't anything weird until post #1354
pedit:@FA

she acting as her read is more confident as it is and trying to use new evidence to push that stubbornness even if it doesn't make much sense is not a scum mindset move by default is my impression of this.

But I can understand why you been uneasy with the slot to the point of voting her.

even though you can't possibly make a meta read based on emotional meltdown in general. we all are humans. unless if you're saying mastina will never genuinely have a meltdown and is always faking it which is a pretty weird take that makes absolutely no sense

Okay. I know you’re excited to do some debating(tm) but this is a poor interpretation and argument.
Which is fair I’m fairly vague. But like, no.

I wanna drive Mastina up so that they at least claim and decide from there.
I’m at work right now so I’ll respond to some of this later.
But I’m surprised this is the direct Angel decided to go and sort of disappointed honestly since they kinda talked up their method and then they hit me lol.

Well I'm just trying to understand how you connect the dots in your head to make the conclusions you made if I'm interpreting your moves wrong or are describing them wrong help me see your intentions and where you were coming from.

so take your time but I wanna know what that meta read is based on

Are you asking me to tell you what I’ve already said in thread.
If you want links look for them yourself. I’m not worried about being caught I a lie, because it’s true regardless of my alignment. I have no incentive to pretend this isn’t a dud and a wasted use of your time to explore. Regardless of your alignment this game.

I want to know why you think "when mastina has a melt down she is scum"

I don't have time to check all her games and all your games to investigate if you truly believe that or not. it was your claim so burden of its proof is on you?

I don’t need your vote, so I’m okay with not putting in the effort to dig up evidence of my own statements.
I know my reasoning is consistent and that there’s evidence of it I don’t need you to know that.

This is such an unnecessary and bold attitude against a kind question about sorting your opinion and intentions/ and by proxy your slot. or maybe the vote against you made you feel uneasy?

you "knowing your reasoning is consistent" translates to basically "I know I'm town". so what? town says that. scum says that. more than half of the town responsibility is to show others they are not scum. if no one tries to explain their intentions everyone can hide and no scum can be found

pedit: oki that's a better way to put it. and still doesn't give me any answers

"As mentioned though, I think Mastina lacks a certain amount of flexibility it’s a wall they have trouble getting over and they’ve spoken about it at length in other games. Something I also won’t bother to source because I don’t wanna and I don’t gotta."

You mean a sort of an emotional wall that they cant help but to have a melt down as scum but cant have an emotional melt down and always stays calm when town?

[Shiro]

Mastina is far more likely as scum to keep saying she isnt scum based on her town tells, then if it works gloat how she manipulated her towntells and masterminded her whole play as scum.

Which she tried to do by saying that scum her wouldnt be here telling us she is town. So she has to be town. Also she tried to pretend that Norwee confed town her by calling her clown and he scum slipped which makes no sense.

Also I bet she made the I am mason post as a joke but deliberatly never denied it as well in order to have it as a fallback in case she wants to fake claim it. Then if we call bs on it go on about how she never lies as scum about being a mason and that it is a town tell that she claimed it.

I can already see this whole thing playing out.

[Frozen Angel]

if she is truely a mason then there is someone else with a clear on her. and if she isn't then there are no other slot to confirm their story or their buddy has to claim mason to confirm her story which means we will get 2 scum instead of one if she flips red cause of it.

so I expect the masonry to fully out before we eliminate her or for her to claim her actual role if she is threatened to go this day phase

[Alisae]

VOTE: mastina

[8] mastina: Shiro, Dannflor, fireisredsir, Val89, Bell, PenguinPower, NorwegianboyEE, Alisae
[3] NorwegianboyEE: mastina, Something_Smart, KittyTacky
[2] T3: Marashu, Cephrir
[2] KittyTacky: Mistyx, Charloux
[2] PenguinPower: Datisi, catboi
[1] Datisi: SCRRRDBEAR
[1] Bell: Frozen Angel

[2] Not Voting: T3, Titus

—

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to eliminate.

Day one ends in 2 days, 18 hours, 26 minutes.

[Alisae]

Mastina is the best flip in the game I want to flip it

[Bell]

I’ll be the first to admit that my townie play style is designed as it is because I dislike being voted.
On the other hand this is one of the rare moments where Mastina is either going to walk up and correct you
Or scum claim by not doing that and I’m fine with either.

[Bell]

I’m also happy with a Mason claim.