It feels like not a lot happened since I stopped posting. I mean, objectively, nsg and Gamma both started pushing Junko, but other than that... The game state remained pretty much the same with me + Gamma as the top two wagons. Gamma tends towards survivalism as scum. But honestly, I don't think he's been that survivalistic this game. I know that seems contrary to his reaction to BEAR's push on him, but with some distance of his initial emotional reaction wearing off, I think Gamma's play has been a lot more curious and a lot less concerned with just getting votes off of him than I've seen of his scum play. I also kinda think that if Gamma was scum here he'd have found his way onto my wagon instead of trying to start a new one that had little to no support at the time.
I think most of the scum reads on Gamma are for his posts in the first like ~5 pages of the game which are admittedly Not Great Looks. But I don't think they are outside of his town range as far as strong emotional reactions though. I think posts 206, 319, and 340 read as pretty genuine attempts to read people outside of just focusing on the Gamma vs. BEAR dynamic. iirc Gamma would probably be milking that dynamic a lot more as scum for the "genuine" emotional reaction and I think now that the reaction has worn off he's pretty much entirely left it behind to sort the rest of the thread. and while it's certainly not unfakeable (none of those posts are like ground breaking), it's closer to the behavior I would expect from a town player under pressure early than a scum player
also lowkey I kinda want to town read Gamma linking me a scum game to show case his town meta
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I don't have too much to say about Penguin. I think his vote is one of the two not crappy votes on my wagon given his propensity for wagons. I also feel that scum!PenguinPower would like the idea of pocketing me more than he would like the idea of pressuring me. And I think town!PenguinPower would like the idea of pressuring me more than he would like the idea of pocketing me. I think PP pretty intentionally never elaborating is +town. I'd like to know his reason eventually but I'd like to think I have a general idea of what he's thinking this game
Overall the amount of straight up annoyance Penguin has shown towards the thread at large when trying to get information from people is probably +town. I don't think Penguin would have trouble joining in the chaos and making more jokey posts here and there as scum - whereas in this instance I feel like he's genuinely annoyed there isn't more content in this 20 page long game.
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Yume I have no idea. I have never played with this person before but the vibe I get is that this sort of play is not unusual. I don't know how much meta will help. I'll probably do my research eventually but I am Too Lazy right now. This occupies a Not Mafia place in my reads of needing significantly more time before I feel like I have enough content to actually pull out anything alignment indicative.
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Porkens leans town. I feel like the overly confrontational almost... indignant? tone of 383 reads town. I think if my initial read of Porkens changing his read and being awkward about it was correct, scum!Porkens would be more reticent to just admit that. And I think in the end, regardless of Gamma's alignment, but particularly in a Gamma town world, the scum case into town read of Gamma by Porkens is a little too awkward. Like I don't really believe that Porkens is genuinely informed of Gamma's alignment. I guess it is possible I am too ready to town read the sassy defiance tone here, but it feels to me a lot more like a town player who is confident in having changing thoughts than self-conscious scum.
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I don't particularly like NK15's defense of me and I like his push onto PenguinPower out of all my votes even less. Like, I don't think *anyone* with a modicum of experience with PenguinPower would scum read him for naked vote hopping on to a growing wagon. And then there's the fact that he doesn't really do anything with that defense beyond that. Like I don't get the sense that NK15 *actually* town reads me. Or if he does, it's not clear. There's no explanation of why I'm town, just why specific votes don't make sense. This is along the lines of what I'd expect from someone who knows I'm town.
I also think the focus on game thread health or whatever is like... not very genuine. 530 in particular seems feigned and LAMIST when NK15 hasn't exactly been posting cases on anyone in particular. Their biggest case is the fact that someone hasn't posted a case? I think it's a bit of projection to accuse scum of flying under the radar when NK15 is probably best described as doing just that this game.
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I think nsg is probably town. I don't know I should probably have more paranoia here because polarized players can always change up their game but I just don't. nsg, I have a specific idea of you as scum that you tend to be... a lot more passive than your town game. I don't think it'd be inaccurate to say you probably don't enjoy playing scum? Or at least, you certainly don't enjoy it at anywhere the same level that you enjoy town. every time I've seen you as scum you've been a lot more passive and wanting to hang back. I guess that coincides with you lurking out in a lot of games but even when you are posting, it doesn't seem like you get in direct conflict very much at all. You like to just pick up town reads where you can and survive. I've only really seen you start to attack when you come under pressure.
Correct me on any of that if you feel that's an incorrect assessment. but long story short this game feels pretty similar to purgatory where you're a lot more aggressive and direct with pushing people's buttons and getting reactions to inform your reads. (I'm basing this off of Team mafia and several other games of yours that I've read)
basically, I just think nsg's townplay is a lot more dynamic and like, full of life than her scum game. she doesn't have her heart in her scum games. And I feel like there's a lot of little things this game like the Super Secret ScumRead or the town read on NK15 or making her own new push on Junko that indicate she does have her heart in this game
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speaking of Junko, there is a part of me that just wants to sheep NSG here but I have my own pet scum read I'd rather case. I also think 323 is Not That Scummy. I don't really see any reason scum!Junko would have to need to hop off of Gamma. Unless she was planning to hop onto me because I'm the better elimination for whatever reason, but I don't really see that happening here. I took it more as a genuine moment of needing to reconsider the game thread.
however, I do think there are multiple moments of... what seems like trying too hard to look town. the cognitive load is one thing, the other are the multiple instances of trying to solve whole scum teams, which just doesn't seem like a natural way for a town player to think about the game?
@Junko, can you talk to me about what your read is on me right now? I'm wary that your reads seems to follow my early ones almost exactly and yet you haven't really tried to defend me or follow up on the wagon on me at all.
also like why do you keep throwing scum teams out there. it feels like kind of an unintuitive way to approach the game no? I know you're on V/LA right now but I'm also just generally curious where your head is at after rethinking Gamma and everything
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Enchant idk ill try to read this later
508 I kinda thought was town but I have no good reason for that
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KittyTacky's vote on me is one of the bad ones. I admit I have trouble reading this slot because he's seemingly the scummiest slot in the game every single game he is in. I think the defense of me by saying Roden was engaging with me in bad faith into voting me over... what? is a very ?????? progression. popping in to say "I stand by my reads" is awful after having explained like 0 reads.
I don't know this slot frustrates me and I'd happily wagon it. like I don't know what else to say about this slot other than it's scummy. I don't really know how to pull more reads out of KittyTacky that will help me town read them other than just wait and hope they start having some believable progressions. I guess the vote on Porkens was like fine. but other than that I just have a hard time believing the words typed by this cat.
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VOTE: JohnnyFarrar
okay so this is my pet scum read I'm really excited about
I'm pretty sure this is a post-hoc explanation to the vote on me. I don't think a townie reads the thread at the time of Johnny's vote on me and says that I'm coasting. I had like among the top posts in the game at the time and was probably the person with the most game related content in the thread (if I do say so myself). Sure maybe it's more accurate to say this after I've been V/lA for 3 days, but that came after Johnny's vote on me.In post 552, JohnnyFarrar wrote:78 and 79 paint dann as this like, "I've got my shit together" kinda guy when it comes to setups and approaching townreads and scumreads, but then his approach to Porkens, nk15, and his general attitude toward power role discussion makes him look.... inconsistent. Like he's discussing things as they come up but doesn't have a core thread of scumhunting, or even truly critical thinking, underneath.In post 542, northsidegal wrote:can someone not even case but just give me like the bulletpoints on dann scum, i'm waiting on a lot of content from him but don't really feel as though that warrants a vote yet
So I guess basically he looks like he's coasting? Add to that the complete lack of actual scummy behavior that I can see from Gamma or Porkin', and you land at my current belief which is that Dann is scum and completely satisfied with the current gamestate.
Putting aside the fact that I no longer scum read Gamma or Porkens, this is something that applies to like, a lot of people in the game that scum read one or both of these slots? I certainly wasn't original with that. It's also very strange to combine the coasting accusation with the "satisfied with the current gamestate" accusation when... if he's truly talking about the past three days, why on earth would I be satisfied with a gamestate that has me as a top wagon.
regarding the first paragraph... I have never been the Setup Guy. I will never be the Setup Guy. I think the two posts linked only paint me as the Setup Guy if you are searching for inconsistencies. This is just a very weird assumption to make. And I think comparing setup spec to scum hunting is also not a townie mindset. I think Johnny went and searched for reasons to scum read me after he was asked. I had thought his vote was towny at the time because it was just sheeping Roden. But I really don't think this is genuine.
I also have thought in general that the way he's approaching this game is not very curious. He doesn't really seem to care about what anyone's alignment is. If I look at 386, it feels like Johnny is viewing the game as categorizing people into boxes of whether it would look good to vote there or not. I don't necessarily take issue with the "good place or bad place to vote" sort of style, what is scummy is the focus on the optics.
The bolded in regards to slots like Enchant and NM just reads so LAMIST? Like Johnny is very aware pursuing these slots is too easy and wants to look good for not going for the LHF but also wants to keep that option open.In post 386, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Enchant and N_M are a more trollish flavor of penguin, not sure how to read and not really interested in voting.I will if I have to tho.
I also think the hedging on Yume because Yume claimed a role isn't really a town mindset. I don't think town should be acting "afraid" of killing roles in this setup. This feels like someone approaching the setup from the wrong side.In post 386, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Yume is on some shit. I've never played with them (that I can remember) and normally I would try to pressure, but like they said the got a PR. Unsure how to proceed.
I think the read on me is the only actual read Johnny has given and I think it was made up far after the fact because Johnny realized his previous reads weren't doing it.
like his read on me after his vote is not cohesive with his later explanation. I also think there is this very weird vibe with this read and continuing with his read on Roden where Johnny is playing the game as if he only wants to wagon non-PRs. I don't think town approaching this game would actually think that way. I think this is scum being hyper sensitive about their image and how they look voting places.In post 386, JohnnyFarrar wrote:Dann has this aww shucks energy to him that comes across as just happy to be here. He acknowledges his lack of interest in engaging with mechanics to solve and just as recently as this page acknowledges the weakness of his vote.
Johnny, if you're town, can you tell me if you have any strong reads on not me slots. 552 shows that you can pull corroborated reads out of the air that aren't just a hedge mess. what are your strongest town reads? I do not have a sense whether you genuinely town read Gamma + Porkens or whether you just want to keep defending them because of lack of scuminess. What are their towniest posts?
