Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[Datisi]

how can u say this is my scumgame if u don’t know how my town game functions?
Why would I be hesitant about mastina? Why would I show remorse or reevaluation? What mastina post would cause me to think these things? I’ve said so many times I think mastina was the best flip in the game, and as town I look at the bigger picture, like what Norwee is trying to do, I remove myself from the game and form reads based on the things I see happen in the game.

Out the alt.
knowing who alt are and choosing not to out them is extremely toxic and removes the point of secret alting in the first place. You have an unfavorable advantage over me.
We can’t talk about the read anyways if you don’t and it’s something I would like to do…
Like why does most of the playerlist get to know who the person is but not me who came back from my self ban?
How is that fair at all :/

i don't know how your towngame functions, but i know there are some tidbits that don't make sense from scum-you - that's how i townread you in that 9:12 game a bit back if you remember

it's not just about mastina, it's also about kitty and bear -- and it's also the fact that going after mastina is a good cover for not NEEDING to show those emotions because mastina was playing the way she was

which is like, mad unlucky if you're town and ended up going after 3 townies in that fashion but eh

also i'm not gonna out the alt, i don't think anyone else figured it out other than me, and besides that

i am fairly certain that i remember you at one point saying that outing someone's alt in mid game without their permission is an asshole move, so - why are you asking me to do that here?

(i see t3 wagon is a thing, i don't dislike it, i'll catch up on things in a bit but i wanted to get this out now)

[Datisi]

Your wagon looked to be particularly consistent and the best guess based on how the votes peeled off.

what does the votes on me have to do with anything - in particular, a good portion of my votes were people that decided i was scum on like page 10 and then never cared to re-evaluate

i don't know how that impacts your vca but also they were bullshit and i don't think you can learn much just by vca here

--

ok i read up i don't actually have much to add. titus/pp exchange is ??? but i need to actually relook at the history to figure out who is right, and i have a headache currently so that's not happening at this moment

anyway t3 wagon very cool

[fireisredsir]

i don't think anyone else figured it out other than me

im pretty sure i have the same guess you do

[fireisredsir]

i thought titus looked a lot scummier than penguin in the titus/penguin exchange so multiple people giving it a kind of blanket "something is off here!" without going into who and why is weird to me

[Bell]

They’re both weird.
Controlling for their weirdness is an artform and I am a terrible artist.

[Alisae]

i am fairly certain that i remember you at one point saying that outing someone's alt in mid game without their permission is an asshole move, so - why are you asking me to do that here?

There was a game a bit ago, while krazy was unbanned, where a lot of people were calling this alt toxic because they specifically mentioned that I knew who they were going into sign-ups, and this is me reflecting and agreeing with that take. I also think considering how small the community is it's kind of like weird. I think secret alts in general are pretty toxic especially in a community that's pretty small.

Truth is I don't remember when it is I said that, it sounds like something I would say, but I have no idea what was going on in my head when I said it. I could have said it out of frustration because my out was outed or something else, I don't remember what context was.

It's pretty lame to be suspected for the scumread I had my eye on just because you have some meta that I don't have and he is alting and u know and I don't but if you found out via the posts in his game and only that then like that is your reward for being right...

How sure are you that this bear player is who u think they are and do I know them? Are they someone who you think would think that I am bad at wolf?

[Ydrasse]

VOTE COUNT 2.1

[7]

T3

: NorwegianboyEE, Cephrir, Alisae, Titus, fireisredsir, Dannflor, Charloux
[3]

KittyTacky

: Mistyx, SCRRRDBEAR, Datisi
[1]

Alisae

: KittyTacky
[1]

Titus

: PenguinPower

[7]

Not voting

: catboi, Bell, Marashu, Shiro, Something_Smart, Val89, T3,

—

With 19 alive, it takes 10 to eliminate.

Day two ends in (expired on 2022-11-10 00:51:10).

MOD NOTES

• have fun!

• i am so sleepy doing this flip. i accidentally sent the day start pm twice. sowwy.

• let us know if you have any questions, or if something's wrong!

• keep track of your post count!

• currently v/la: shiro, something_smart, val89. if i'm missing one/you're not v/la anymore let me know.

[Marashu]

I know a bunch of people are TR'ing bear, but I'm kinda not? When mastina started pushing Norwee/Alisae, I started feeling suspicious of bear. Bear was quick to trust those two, and early D1 wanted to form a voting block with them. If it's a Norwee/Alisae/Bear team, they would know which clans have higher scum density so they could work together more easily. Bear is clearly an intelligent player (at least, intelligent enough to pull up logical fallacies during conversation). This may be BoP, but I'm concerned that bear is just saying the right thing for the sake of saying the right thing. I also didn't much care that, as D1 was winding down, bear in the PT was discussing who to eliminate D2 without knowing the D1 flip, and I do think that lining up eliminations is +scum. Not my #1 scumread, but I really don't trust this slot, so I'm confused that so many people do.

I don't like that Datisi has pre-flipped bear green in his head.

Alisae was pushing mastina pretty hard D1 after getting called out, even though mastina was pushing Norwee. Like, there was some fixation going on there. I'm not seeing much scrutiny on that, but since more than 5 people have posted, it's not that scum just isn't bringing it up. But why isn't scum discussing it, and why isn't town discussing it? I honestly don't know if this is normal for Alisae (who also tried to flashlim T3, so I'm guessing she likes to try to take control of wagons), but she was acting like mastina was foundscum, but looking back I see a lot of rhetoric and trying to discredit mastina's arguments. And then:

I don't regret flipping it I'm pretty happy that I did, it's the best flip in the game because I think it says a lot about the gamestate regardless of flip, ya know?
Pretty good flip to work off of.

I'd agree, if I got anywhere.
Which I didn't. It's all just speculation. A lot of players gave stuff away by how they navigated Mastina's wagon, but I can't seem to draw good conclusions from it.

It's not worth talking about if it flipped scum.
I think scum, aka, VOTE: Kitty
saw mastina's posts and is scum hiding behind it.

I wish bear posted while mastina's wagon was big, it could have really helped form an actual good read on him but I still think he is scum.
I think he is trying to powerwolf with his play and I think he is one of those people that a lot of people townread for like, no reason??? Like, I don't think anyone really said why they were townreading Bear and I think it's one of those reads where it's like "if you start poking holes at it it just doesn't seem like it's a villager???"

What do you think of Cephrir's posts while mastina was getting ran up?

If I understand right, what you got from the gamestate was scum!Kitty, and scum!bear which you say you already had because you couldn't get that read from the gamestate at the time? I don't want to put words in your mouth here, but this sounds like wanting to find proof for what you believe instead of the other way around. All that said, however, at least I see some skepticism about bear here. But outside of that, what info did you glean from the gamestate?

To the people saying the wagon on T3 is good, what makes it a good wagon? I think it's a good target but that wagon doesn't look clean to me.

I'm having a hard time finding anything Penguin has said that either wasn't said by someone else or was cutting into an argument without follow-up, for the sake of stirring up mischief. But if that's all normal for town!Penguin for D1, and their play changes during D2, well, I'll be watching for it.

[Datisi]

it's a good wagon because it's on t3

fwiw, if t3 is scum, i would be very surprised if no scum is voting him right now, so... i don't really care if his wagon is unclean

@alisae, i'm pretty sure i'm right and i don't wanna answer the other stuff. like i said, it majorly sucks if you're town and it so happened that you suspected 3 town people in a weird way, but /shrug, cross that bridge if we get to it

[Alisae]

Aren’t you doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing then?

[Marashu]

Aren’t you doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing then?

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But seriously, what I am seeing is a lot of either "mastina being mastina" or "these posts are just bad". And that was specifically just for Mastina. I did see some scrutiny happening elsewhere, but the fixation on mastina is the part I'm looking at now. If you think that's what I'm doing here, I'm not sure what to say, but my question remains: what info did you glean from the gamestate?

[Marashu]

Also, happy scumday!

[Alisae]

Not talking to you
I am leaving you on hold, I’m not telling you what’s going on in my head.
If u hate it u can vote me and cry me a fucker river

[catboi]

would it be Bad and Wrong of me to think that the FA kill makes it more likely that one of the leaders is scum

I had basically the opposite thought to this - if you're all town I see 0 incentive for scum to not start killing you off whereas if one is scum they're narrowing themselves down via the NK. I basically think eliming a leader is -EV right now.

[Datisi]

Aren’t you doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing then?

sorry i don't get what you mean

[Alisae]

Aren’t you doing the same thing you’re accusing me of doing then?

sorry i don't get what you mean

You are preparing to push me like how u described me getting ready to push bear

[Datisi]

yeah i guess those two events look similar in a vacuum, sure

[Alisae]

You know what Datisi let’s just leave it at that. Seems like this whole thing is best to resolve when it like, comes to that, if it does.

Btw Marashu that’s not personal btw it’s just that what I am thinking is not information I’m posting right now sorry. I might have came across harsher than intended but I’m doing the same thing norwee is doing so I’m going to be keeping further thoughts to myself or wind clan sorry

[catboi]

Titus

is town. Her posts show a pretty decent progression and a town motivation.

2. Sure. Datisi is strongly town as I think only town would push this hard on someone. There's a genuine conviction there. Scum would be a bit or a lot more cautious pushing a townie. Titus is town. Her posts show a pretty decent progression and a town motivation. Bell and fireisred too for the same reason, the latter I have doubts on though. SCRRRD is pretty obvtown for me from the motivation I see behind their posts, looking past the aggressive post gimmick.

where is the decent progression and town motivation from titus?

what has impressed you from fire? i'm still waiting for him to excite me

1. The stuff early D1 pinged town for me on an ISO read, and

I am not a beacon of obvtown, but do not consider giving me warrior powers until I say I'm eligible. This is not a fakeout.

seems very town-motivated.

2. I liked the exchange around the late 700s. Sent town vibes.

snip

I'm sorry look at this - kittytacky describes titus in the absolute most generic terms possible, and then when questioned on it by ceph gives a nonanswer about "their stuff early on Day 1" without citing anything. He claims to like her "progression" but never says on

what

. Then he pulls up literally one of the most recent posts she made for the argument. I don't believe this is a real read from someone who is trying to solve the game, at all.

(relatedly, kind of like that ceph is asking these questions)

[catboi]

Not just for wagoning T3, also for pushing me with a very fluffy reasoning, like she just jumped on a forming LHF wagon.

(don't embed replies in quotes it's goddamn unreadable)

so let's pull alisae's quotes to see if that reasoning for voting you is actually "fluffy", as you say it is:

Spoiler:

I'm struggling to adapt to this post restriction.

I'm legit trying but it's hard. I also never played a large theme before.

So like, are you just lying?
Because I don't believe you considering at a cursory look at your games where you don't even break past 200 posts in COMPLETED GAMES and we're only in d1.. Like, there are players in here that post way way more but you're the one that's struggling??? Like, 200 is such a lenient post cap I don't see how anyone can struggle as long as they show some restraint and like, actually post with purpose.

But with me, you gotta look at the motivation behind my posts.

So...you're scum? If I look at what you post and what I think your motivation could be, the first thing I think is that your Norwee vote is comes from scum who is either working with mastina or hiding behind her which is something that would realistically make sense in a gamestate where town!norwee is true, which to me, it is?

1. It's a psychological effect.
2. Normally I do a lot of stream-of-consciousness posting that takes up a lot of posts, I can assure you I'd have made like 100+ posts if I played like I usually do.

Ok but like, what you're saying, and what is like, happening, is like, completely opposite of each other and actions say more about a person than what they say so...

--

Why is this your first conclusion instead of me just... sheeping a case that makes sense to me?

Trying to eliminate someone vulnerable pushing your scumbuddy?

Because I'm town and Norwee is also town???
How are these questions real things being asked??? You think you are sheeping something that makes sense and I think you are using that to justify hiding behind mastina.

1. It's a psychological effect.
2. Normally I do a lot of stream-of-consciousness posting that takes up a lot of posts, I can assure you I'd have made like 100+ posts if I played like I usually do.

Ok but like, what you're saying, and what is like, happening, is like, completely opposite of each other and actions say more about a person than what they say so...

--

Why is this your first conclusion instead of me just... sheeping a case that makes sense to me?

Trying to eliminate someone vulnerable pushing your scumbuddy?

Because I'm town and Norwee is also town???
How are these questions real things being asked??? You think you are sheeping something that makes sense and I think you are using that to justify hiding behind mastina.

1. How? I explained why I feel the post restriction stifles me a bit, even if it's mostly a mental pressure thing.
2. Explain why you think Norwee is town.

lmao ok I’m done talking to you goodbye
VOTE: kittyTacky

Ok but like, what you're saying, and what is like, happening, is like, completely opposite of each other and actions say more about a person than what they say so...

wouldn't that make him town then? or why would he pretend to be overly worried about the post cap as scum?

the postcap here is 200. i don't really think any town here should be genuinely worried about it rn if they put any actual thought into it (unless they are a huge spam poster which we don't really have any of here), which is what makes it feel kinda faked concern

I am feeling the same thing he is talking about. I make a lot of borderline useless posts. Even though I doubt I'll hit the cap, I still feel bad making those posts. It is, indeed, a psychological thing.

Kitty sounds fake you sound genuine don't ask me why. I don't particularly care about your argument and that line I think is reflective of Kitty up that point in general not just that 1 individual point. Like he says he's town and to read his motivations but when I do that I just see scum and it feels like his words do not match his actions.

This looks...basically fine? I think alisae's main points against you are that:

1. your claimed excuse for being inactive early day 1 doesn't make much sense because there's no reason to believe your usual output in games would be at risk of getting postcapped.
2. your vote on norwee looked like an opportunistic scum one (something I also agreed with)

And after that, okay they get fed up with you and just start mudslinging but I can actually feel this looks like a real thought where you just seem to be calling alisae scum because you're pushing you, which is basically the level 0 move for caught scum. I don't think these reasons are actually as weak as you're trying to describe them as and you come off as significantly worse in this argument.

[catboi]

btw, you wanna hear how you do cancel culture right?

There's this misconception about cancel culture that to cancel someone you start personally attacking them.
That doesn't make a whole lot of sense cause that's just being a shitty person.

Here is what you do.
Take who you wanna cancel, so KittyTacky in this case, and you do not engage with him. You do not interact with his posts. You do not engage about the topic other than telling people that you're not engaging with it and these are the reason's that you shouldn't engage with it.

Because this is the person that wrote this post.

VOTE: Kitty
Norwee abandon ship

Opportunism. Scum.

There is no talking to this person.
Talking to this person in main thread means you are wasting yours posts.
I MEAN JUST LOOK AT THIS

I called it. I fucking called it. Now let's catpile Norwe.

VOTE: Norwegian

This person is not worth your posts. He is only worth your vote.

ik this seems like not an entirely serious post but i still don't really like the approach, kitty seems like someone who is more sortable by talking to them and trying to get them engaged in the game

in their past scum games they usually struggled to respond to pushes on them and questioning of them consistently. they've already done more here in that respect than they ever have before

idk what the point of not engaging with them would be. if you think that everything they post is obvscum then what's wrong with people trying to talk to them and having them post more

When you say you don't like it, do you mean in a "I disagree with this being a good way to play the game" sense or a "I think this is scummy" sense?

[catboi]

I think Datisi's avatar is making his posts look scummier to me

[Datisi]

et tu, brute?

[catboi]

my only vibe from Titus previously was "disengaged" but I don't think that's AI

DAMN THAT'S TOO BAD BECAUSE I WAS SCUM READING THEM FOR IT.

ive correctly townread titus for this in the past tbh and i kind of was early in this game. idk if its like a strong towntell or anything but i kind of think it's a lean at least

some of the more recent posting sketched me out a bit more tho

fwiw I have absolutely seen Titus play a diengaged, unmotivated scumgame, motivation level for her is not alignment indicative

VOTE: misty

Explain this vote? I thought her posting was good overall

[catboi]

et tu, brute?

goddammit i know this avatar makes me look scummy but i didn't want to be the one to say it lmfao

i could have had some bitchin anime cat fanart avatar but ydrasse had to give me this IT'S HER FAULT