Warrior Cats Mafia [Day Three]

[Mistyx]

with the T3 flash happening in the way it did im not convinced thats true anymore

do you think there is scum pushing t3 here? who is it? and why couldn't scum be split between pushing t3 AND pushing mastina's reads?

yes, pending further information, it's possible but there isn't necessarily evidence for it which makes my point moot

have you considered reading some posts that catboi put out recently on why kitty is scumy regardless of The Scum Plan

oh don't get me wrong i still think his posts are bad i just don't want to be voting him if i don't have a good answer to "what is kitty even doing if he's scum"

[Datisi]

lolcatting would be my answer, but idk lole

[catboi]

idk its just not really relevant to the point? i was talking with alisae when she called him a troll bc he made a comment somewhere that he ruins games. and i was saying that he made that comment bc he views himself as limbait and often gets pushed, not because he is actively trying to troll. like the point is the same whether he gets eliminated or not, and it also wasn't a point that has anything to do with his alignment in this game, it was a point about whether he deserves to be ignored or not. this isn't a gotcha lol

and i mean i did look at his games earlier when i was checking postcounts i feel like thats p verifiable

and when i looked again later i did focus more on looking at his scumgames to see how he responded to pressure in them so maybe that made me forget how often he actually gets elimmed

im also probably more likely to fact check as scum tbh, as town i know that it isn't relevant to the point im making so i don't care

I guess I get that it's inessential to your main argument about kittytacky's posting style and how alisae responded to it but it's still a

weird

point to bring up in his defense. I dunno what else to say about it, "not a troll but limbait" is an argument that can definitely be made for some players but it feels liker a stock argument that's more likely to be made if you're not really investigating kittytacky's play. I guess you can fall back on the self-perception argument but that's A. unfalsifiable and B. I see literally no reason he should actually believe he's limbait as town??

I wanna comment on the alisae stuff but I still need to catch up to the argument with Marashu you referenced before I do

[fireisredsir]

im only saying that bc im p sure he has said it about himself as town before

i can go look and try to find the comment later if you want me to

and my point is it wasn't in his defense. you're treating it like a defense. the point didn't have anything to do with his alignment in this game

also are you saying you disagree with the characterization of "not a troll, but limbait" bc i find that kinda hard to believe

[catboi]

im only saying that bc im p sure he has said it about himself as town before

i can go look and try to find the comment later if you want me to

and my point is it wasn't in his defense. you're treating it like a defense. the point didn't have anything to do with his alignment in this game

also are you saying you disagree with the characterization of "not a troll, but limbait" bc i find that kinda hard to believe

yeah sure you know what, show it to me. again my point is not that the characterization in and of itself is unbelievable, it's that you making that defense reflexively feels unearned. although I guess "not a troll" isn't a hard defense to make

IDK, I might be focusing way too much on that one particular clause about him getting eliminated often and this is super pointless, it stood out to me in the moment but now I feel stupid talking about it


and are you not defending kittytacky? it read to me like you were defending him given you were critical of alisae's handling of him

[catboi]

I completely forgot where I was last reading the game thread this was dumb of me to get into lmao

[NorwegianboyEE]

Alisae was pushing mastina pretty hard D1 after getting called out, even though mastina was pushing Norwee. Like, there was some fixation going on there. I'm not seeing much scrutiny on that, but since more than 5 people have posted, it's not that scum just isn't bringing it up. But why isn't scum discussing it, and why isn't town discussing it? I honestly don't know if this is normal for Alisae (who also tried to flashlim T3, so I'm guessing she likes to try to take control of wagons), but she was acting like mastina was foundscum, but looking back I see a lot of rhetoric and trying to discredit mastina's arguments.

Coming out of my dormant state to comment on this.

I believe that Alisae fighting Mastina in D1 also had to do with our co-operation in hood. I joined this game because Alisae invited me and we are trying to solve together. As we are in a hood together it is also very easy for us to both share ideas and fight for each other. And as we both discussed scumreading Mastina for their push it is only natural that they were fiery in their pushback against Mastina. I do not scumread it, and i also think that with this information that nobody else should either. Think of it this way, Mastina literally strengthened our resolve by pushing an team of me/Alisae. And so she got an self-fulfilling prophesy. We both fought like hell to bury her. (With the cave-eat that we genuinely believed her to be scum)

[NorwegianboyEE]

et tu, brute?

goddammit i know this avatar makes me look scummy but i didn't want to be the one to say it lmfao

i could have had some bitchin anime cat fanart avatar but ydrasse had to give me this IT'S HER FAULT

Not an serious read, but if this was an newbie and you had that avatar i have the feeling you would be 90% rand!scum for it alone.

[Cephrir]

That exchange did not give me good vibes

which side and why

i haven't figured out which side yet. maybe both.

i might read it again

[KittyTacky]

ok his posts on page 77 do be looking kinda fake tho

English is not my first language so I struggle with getting tone across.

[Cephrir]

I really don’t care about the meta of some troll if that’s how u sort them good for u.

Other people can do whatever the fuck they want, I just think that engaging with the slot to me is a waste of posts. I mean I think the guy posts like an open wolf npc but I mean maybe more people need more time to reach that conclusion? I’m just saying why I’m not engaging with it, and you shouldn’t either it’s not worth ur posts.

i don't think they're actually a troll,

they just often get eliminated.

and there's a difference between saying that you're not going to engage with the posts anymore and encouraging other people not to. that's the part i don't really get. i get it in situations where the person is like spamming or just being a nuisance or whatever, but i don't really feel like that applies here?

idk maybe im just sensitive to the sentiment he gave of getting discouraged by feeling like people are ignoring him when he tries to get more engaged, so then seeing you basically telling everyone to ignore him is like... feels like targeted towards shutting down any chance of him showing himself as town if he is

So, like, mind telling me where you got the bolded from? Because I went though his games and I had to go back to March of 2021 to find a game where he was mis-eliminated as town and since then he's had 7 straight where he's either NKed or endgames. The times he frequently gets eliminated are...when he's scum.

this & catboi's previous post re: kitty make me want to kill kitty again.

i also read a scumgame of hers and it made me realize that my previous standards for her scumplay (based on ktane) were way too low of a bar

damn it

with the T3 flash happening in the way it did im not convinced thats true anymore

do you think there is scum pushing t3 here? who is it? and why couldn't scum be split between pushing t3 AND pushing mastina's reads?

don't be silly everyone knows scum are a monolith united behind a single end goal for each day and they always have A Plan at all times /s

Alisae was pushing mastina pretty hard D1 after getting called out, even though mastina was pushing Norwee. Like, there was some fixation going on there. I'm not seeing much scrutiny on that, but since more than 5 people have posted, it's not that scum just isn't bringing it up. But why isn't scum discussing it, and why isn't town discussing it? I honestly don't know if this is normal for Alisae (who also tried to flashlim T3, so I'm guessing she likes to try to take control of wagons), but she was acting like mastina was foundscum, but looking back I see a lot of rhetoric and trying to discredit mastina's arguments.

Coming out of my dormant state to comment on this.

I believe that Alisae fighting Mastina in D1 also had to do with our co-operation in hood. I joined this game because Alisae invited me and we are trying to solve together. As we are in a hood together it is also very easy for us to both share ideas and fight for each other. And as we both discussed scumreading Mastina for their push it is only natural that they were fiery in their pushback against Mastina. I do not scumread it, and i also think that with this information that nobody else should either. Think of it this way, Mastina literally strengthened our resolve by pushing an team of me/Alisae. And so she got an self-fulfilling prophesy. We both fought like hell to bury her. (With the cave-eat that we genuinely believed her to be scum)

why are you in a dormant state?

[Cephrir]

ok his posts on page 77 do be looking kinda fake tho

English is not my first language so I struggle with getting tone across.

do you have anything that's not excuses

[KittyTacky]

it is serious. I’m not going to engage with the player anymore considering I saw a post in mini theme q where he declared himself a troll and said he ruins games. I actively hate this shit.

It was a joke, my fucking God.

ok his posts on page 77 do be looking kinda fake tho

English is not my first language so I struggle with getting tone across.

do you have anything that's not excuses

Not an excuse, I legit have difficulties getting myself across but I'm trying.

[KittyTacky]

Mastina says my reads are "worse than random" but how on Earth would an uninformed player know that. I won't say it's an outright slip but I wonder why nobody else is paying attention to that when a townread of mine was flipped and turned out to be town.

[KittyTacky]

*Alisae

[Cephrir]

sorry i didn't mean to imply i don't believe you about that i just feel like you're always ready with a defense but getting actual content out of you is like pulling teeth

do you have any response to 2118?

[Cephrir]

Mastina says my reads are "worse than random" but how on Earth would an uninformed player know that. I won't say it's an outright slip but I wonder why nobody else is paying attention to that when a townread of mine was flipped and turned out to be town.

it's just a roundabout way of saying e thinks your reads are incorrect

[KittyTacky]

If he is getting discouraged and is town then maybe he should learn play better. Maybe use his brain to think, not rely on other people engaging you (because no one gives a fuck about the fact no one is engaging you even if u are asking for it, it’s on you to engage. This isn’t pre-school where we are holding each other’s hands to walk across the street), have his own reads, less defending himself, and more hunting. Maybe he wouldn’t be in this position then? Like he uses the fact he has to defend himself as an excuse? I hate it lol

I’ve seen no reason to engage with the wolf and others will come to the conclusion as well.

And I'm trying to engage, thank you.

sorry i didn't mean to imply i don't believe you about that i just feel like you're always ready with a defense but getting actual content out of you is like pulling teeth

do you have any response to 2118?

Will do when I get to in in my backread of 7 pages.

Mastina says my reads are "worse than random" but how on Earth would an uninformed player know that. I won't say it's an outright slip but I wonder why nobody else is paying attention to that when a townread of mine was flipped and turned out to be town.

it's just a roundabout way of saying e thinks your reads are incorrect

Ah.

[KittyTacky]

i say that mainly because it consists mostly of promises to catch up which never result in anything

Yeah I'm also not so sure about letting them live until they catch up, feels like it's taking too long, definitely in my limpool for today.

[KittyTacky]

Like I'm not even sure if the "he said he ruins games so I'm not engaging with him" is genuine tbh. If it is and you took my self-deprecating joke about UNINTENTIONALLY ruining games badly, I'm sorry and I didn't mean it that way. If it isn't, nice cover for essentially naked pushing me.

[KittyTacky]

I'm sorry look at this - kittytacky describes titus in the absolute most generic terms possible, and then when questioned on it by ceph gives a nonanswer about "their stuff early on Day 1" without citing anything. He claims to like her "progression" but never says on

what

. Then he pulls up literally one of the most recent posts she made for the argument. I don't believe this is a real read from someone who is trying to solve the game, at all.

(relatedly, kind of like that ceph is asking these questions)

One flaw I have is that I may like/dislike most of a series of posts but have difficulties finding

what

to point to. I legit tried my best to explain what is mostly a gut read because I was pushed to.

[KittyTacky]

1. your claimed excuse for being inactive early day 1 doesn't make much sense because there's no reason to believe your usual output in games would be at risk of getting postcapped.

I explained it several times already, it was psychological pressure since I never played with such a restriction before and got subconsciously scared.

2. your vote on norwee looked like an opportunistic scum one (something I also agreed with)

I shept a case that made sense to me and continues to.

So I think both of these are fallacious and just scum latching on.

[KittyTacky]

I really don’t care about the meta of some troll if that’s how u sort them good for u.

Other people can do whatever the fuck they want, I just think that engaging with the slot to me is a waste of posts. I mean I think the guy posts like an open wolf npc but I mean maybe more people need more time to reach that conclusion? I’m just saying why I’m not engaging with it, and you shouldn’t either it’s not worth ur posts.

i don't think they're actually a troll,

they just often get eliminated.

and there's a difference between saying that you're not going to engage with the posts anymore and encouraging other people not to. that's the part i don't really get. i get it in situations where the person is like spamming or just being a nuisance or whatever, but i don't really feel like that applies here?

idk maybe im just sensitive to the sentiment he gave of getting discouraged by feeling like people are ignoring him when he tries to get more engaged, so then seeing you basically telling everyone to ignore him is like... feels like targeted towards shutting down any chance of him showing himself as town if he is

So, like, mind telling me where you got the bolded from? Because I went though his games and I had to go back to March of 2021 to find a game where he was mis-eliminated as town and since then he's had 7 straight where he's either NKed or endgames. The times he frequently gets eliminated are...when he's scum.

Keep in mind that for a while I exclusively played normals so the normal regulars got used to my weird meta. But now I'm playing my first large theme, with many people who never saw me before so I get scumread as town.

[Cephrir]

i dont know if this exercise will help me but i am going to do it anyway

VOTE: t3

Why did you vote mastina yesterday?

i am curious as to whether titus was planning a gotcha from the start with this question. it kinda feels like it. i could also see it as theater -- i just feel like the goal from the outset was to start shit, for some reason?

1) Why me = fry me.
2) Your "consensus" about Riverclan came after Bell's vote.

we're adults it's 2022 and this isn't a chat mafia game; do we need "why me fry me" anymore.

So then you're capitalizing on coincidence. Cool.

ugh, the tone hurts me. i really don't like how neither participant in the conversation managed to have even a moment of mea culpa but instead tried to pave over it when they got facts wrong.

Hugely disagree with you on point 1. You seem to be somewhat accurate on point 2, but why call out me or norwe and not Bell? Bell shifted it from [5] T3/[4] mastina to [5]mastina/[4] T3.

Spoiler: VC at my vote

VOTE COUNT 1.8

[5]

mastina

: Alisae, NorwegianboyEE, Shiro, Dannflor, fireisredsir
[4]

Datisi

: Frozen Angel, SCRRRDBEAR, PenguinPower, Bell
[3]

NorwegianboyEE

: mastina, Something_Smart, KittyTacky
[3]

KittyTacky

: Mistyx, Cephrir, Charloux
[2]

PenguinPower

: Datisi, catboi
[2]

Alisae

: Val89, Marashu

[2]

Not Voting

: T3, Titus

—

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to eliminate.

Day one ends in (expired on 2022-10-30 12:12:34).

MOD NOTES

• have fun!

• let us know if you have any questions, or if something's wrong! sorry for the vc errors, i've been sustained by cold medicine the past few days.

• currently v/la: shiro, datisi, fireisredsir

• a joint mod iso may be found here!

VOTE: Mastina

I have an important announcement.

Due to things that have come to light and

Unforeseen Circumstances

, we as the wind clan have come to a decision that we must act with quick haste.
In part of this decision, we will now attempt to back the following motion.

VOTE: T3

It gets better if you vote him before he shows any signs of life

VOTE: T3

Sure.

I have an important announcement.

Due to things that have come to light and

Unforeseen Circumstances

, we as the wind clan have come to a decision that we must act with quick haste.
In part of this decision, we will now attempt to back the following motion.

VOTE: T3

It gets better if you vote him before he shows any signs of life

Ok, I want to see where this goes.
VOTE: T3

VOTE: T3

I find it strange that Bell indicated themselves as scum in their reaction-list.

I'm suspicious of how genuine Cephrir's list is

Why?

VOTE: T3

Okay,
so
I'll be real here.

My meta on Mastina is basically:
Will Mastina have a meltdown?
Y: Scum.
N: Town.

They had a meltdown.

I'm fine with this. For the day.
VOTE: Mastina

Ah, I see what you're saying for plot reasons one kitty leaves the clan/is evil.
While Titus is the good rogue kitty that comes in to shore up the clan that had a loss/betrayal.
Makes sense from a plot point perspective.

...I forgot what Ydra said about this. *shrug* I'm sure someone will dig it up.

VOTE COUNT 1.8

[5]

mastina

: Shiro, Dannflor, fireisredsir, Val89, Bell
[4]

T3

: Alisae, Marashu, NorwegianboyEE, Cephrir
[3]

Datisi

: Frozen Angel, SCRRRDBEAR, PenguinPower,
[3]

NorwegianboyEE

: mastina, Something_Smart, KittyTacky
[2]

KittyTacky

: Mistyx, , Charloux
[2]

PenguinPower

: Datisi, catboi

[2]

Not Voting

: T3, Titus

—

With 21 alive, it takes 11 to eliminate.

see the thing i just said: "you seem to be somewhat accurate" feels like dodgy framing. i question whether it's coming from good faith

It shouldn't. PP is 100% scum here.

Your vote came after Cephrir which was with T3 at 5.

This is an inaccurate statement.

but why call out me or norwe and not Bell? Bell shifted it from [5] T3/[4] mastina to [5]mastina/[4] T3.

This is an accurate statement followed up by a question

1) Why me = fry me.

This is a deflection instead of answering the question now that it has been showing your original statement was inaccurate.

2) Your "consensus" about Riverclan came after Bell's vote.

Yet another inaccurate statement.

At least one of these comments is entirely pointless? i don't really agree that point 1 on its own is a deflection since it comes in the context of a larger post which, while wrong, does appear to me to address what was being talked about? im talking out my ass a little here i lost the thread of the argument

VOTE: Titus

as far as i can tell this vote is primarily for making inaccurate statements, if i'm to think the prior post had a point? i haven't found that to be a hallmark of scum

What makes you so sure?

1) He basically lied about his wagon position.
2) When I corrected him, he turned attention to bell.
3) His mastina vote is sheeping the river clan naked.
4) T3 was a lazy no info vote yesterday but now suddenly is worth a naked vote as the wagon creeps up.
5) He shades my attention on him and his behavior as deflection from Bell.

i don't care about 1 or 3 but the others seem maybe valid. but i don't think titus ever answered the question as to why she didn't attack bell? am i missing it?

What makes you so sure?

1) He basically lied about his wagon position.
2) When I corrected him, he turned attention to bell.
3) His mastina vote is sheeping the river clan naked.
4) T3 was a lazy no info vote yesterday but now suddenly is worth a naked vote as the wagon creeps up.
5) He shades my attention on him and his behavior as deflection from Bell.

1.)No, I looked at the two votecounts from the mod and was incorrect.
2.)No, I went and counted the votes between the two votecounts from the mod and it showed that YOU were incorrect in your statement that I was the shifting vote. It was Bell, and I called that out to you.
3.)Hi, I'm PP. Welcome to my D1 in all games every. You are aware of this.
4.)Yes, if lazy people continue to not do things it's fine. This isn't D1 anymore.
5.)No, you are ignoring something that factually happened to push elsewhere based on falsities.

it is still fair to say that there was an attempt by PP to divert the conversation to bell, though... and my brain's shutting down darn i thought this one was simple enough for me

[KittyTacky]

So, like, mind telling me where you got the bolded from? Because I went though his games and I had to go back to March of 2021 to find a game where he was mis-eliminated as town and since then he's had 7 straight where he's either NKed or endgames. The times he frequently gets eliminated are...when he's scum.

i was actually surprised how little he got eliminated when i looked, you're right

what i (and i think alisae) was referring to tho was a comment where i think he called himself limbait or something. so even if he doesn't actually get eliminated he still is like regularly in that pool of people who are suspected

but true my bad, that is not strictly correct, i think the sentiment is tho

okay so that's kind of a weird response because I'm not sure what "the sentiment is correct" is supposed to mean? like if he does not get miseliminated often as town it does not happen. we're arguing facts not feelings here.


and I had this really dumb theory forming in my head that kittytacky told the scum PT "I suck I always get eliminated" and fire just came in assuming kittytacky meant as

both

alignments when that is not actually true

and this whole argument by fire is him trying to divert pressure off kittytacky because he's usually pretty averse to bussing but he didn't bother to actually fact check like he would as town

idk its just not really relevant to the point? i was talking with alisae when she called him a troll bc he made a comment somewhere that he ruins games. and i was saying that he made that comment bc he views himself as limbait and often gets pushed, not because he is actively trying to troll. like the point is the same whether he gets eliminated or not, and it also wasn't a point that has anything to do with his alignment in this game, it was a point about whether he deserves to be ignored or not. this isn't a gotcha lol

and i mean i did look at his games earlier when i was checking postcounts i feel like thats p verifiable

and when i looked again later i did focus more on looking at his scumgames to see how he responded to pressure in them so maybe that made me forget how often he actually gets elimmed

im also probably more likely to fact check as scum tbh, as town i know that it isn't relevant to the point im making so i don't care

^^^^^^^

I might not get eliminated as town very often but I almost always get run up. Odd game where I don't get wagoned as town early.