Mini Normal 2283 - Game Over!

[Frogsterking]

Anyway, he knows there’s no world where we kill anyone -he- wants us to kill this phase. So he’s eliminating any further incriminating interactions.

In my opinion.

Sit down, Grib

[Frogsterking]

Disclaimer: I'm going to treat myself as town for this analysis because that takes out a variable and makes this easier for me.

Okay here is what I was looking for earlier. The problem with the VCA Elements has presented is that it doesn't include the impact of their own vote on the wagon movements. I think this disclaimer is an example of lampshading which is NAI (I think?) What's scummy in Elements ISO is the use of VCA to explain their reads because it helps to project the image of being reasonable while not requiring any descriptions for how they feel about given players.

[Frogsterking]

Spoiler: Frog meta

Okay, now you feel almost too scummy to be scum.

Will you tell me about your playstyle? How you tend to handle the early- mid-, and late-game? Why do people who don't know you typically scumread you, and if someone had experience with you, what would they think of your posts so far?

Sorry for the rapid-fire questions, but you intrigue me.

Aside from the questions these are all the usual beats of a townie trying really hard to sort my slot. I've been described as too-scummy-to-be-scum sounding a lot. Like, a lot.

For your questions, I have very good reads early and hit scum D1 a lot. I mostly ask questions, set up a PoE and analyze isos. So my early play is very competent. Actually, I think my early game is very good.

The problem is that other than that I tend to play pretty bad.

I'd describe my mid game (or even immediately after setting up a PoE) play as: I freak out and go on tilt and throw the game.

I think my endgame play is messy too because I can figure out who did it by then but my tilt/paranoia/tinfoil are bad for closing out games.

My adaptation recently has been to try and play to my strengths and call multiple scum D1 and push one of them through so I get killed N1 and aren't around to throw the game later.

As for why I think I'm constantly scum read by tone, I have a theory that people who are introverted (low happiness, low assertiveness), neurotic (in my case anxious, angry, vulnerable) and very disagreeable (competitive, suspicious of others) are likely to be scum read by tone when Town. I mostly believe this because I realized that other players who have a similar temperament are frequently getting pushed as scum by strangers in their games as well.

Now with that said, what about you, Grib? What is your playstyle like in the early, mid and late game, and do you often get scum read for your tone as Town?

There is a very obvious lack of tilt here, or passion, or urgency. If Frog is town here.

Your recent posts are moving me toward that place VERY quickly

[Cat Scratch Fever]

VC 3.02

With 8 players, it takes 5 to make a decision. Day 3 ends in (expired on 2022-11-05 15:00:00).

VC

Frogsterking [3]:

Grib [1391], Elements [1451], Aisa [1527]

Eiralox [1]:

Enchant [1343]

Elements [1]:

Frogsterking [1497]

Not voting [3]:

Bellaphant, Not_Mafia, Eiralox [1454]

Flavor

Spoiler: Only Murders in the Building

[Grib]

Ha, figures you’d pop up right after I post that.

[Grib]

In any case, I do agree that if you’re town, Elements is very likely scum.

[Frogsterking]

In any case, I do agree that if you’re town, Elements is very likely scum.

It sounds like you aren't even thinkinv about the game at all because until I said anything you were all dramatic about your intent to vote out NM after you mislim Frog.

Ok, I’ll say it. Frog is strategically lurking. I’ve never played with him before but his personality type doesn’t really mesh with “give up” as a villager.

Spoiler: Frog meta

Okay, now you feel almost too scummy to be scum.

Will you tell me about your playstyle? How you tend to handle the early- mid-, and late-game? Why do people who don't know you typically scumread you, and if someone had experience with you, what would they think of your posts so far?

Sorry for the rapid-fire questions, but you intrigue me.

Aside from the questions these are all the usual beats of a townie trying really hard to sort my slot. I've been described as too-scummy-to-be-scum sounding a lot. Like, a lot.

For your questions, I have very good reads early and hit scum D1 a lot. I mostly ask questions, set up a PoE and analyze isos. So my early play is very competent. Actually, I think my early game is very good.

The problem is that other than that I tend to play pretty bad.

I'd describe my mid game (or even immediately after setting up a PoE) play as: I freak out and go on tilt and throw the game.

I think my endgame play is messy too because I can figure out who did it by then but my tilt/paranoia/tinfoil are bad for closing out games.

My adaptation recently has been to try and play to my strengths and call multiple scum D1 and push one of them through so I get killed N1 and aren't around to throw the game later.

As for why I think I'm constantly scum read by tone, I have a theory that people who are introverted (low happiness, low assertiveness), neurotic (in my case anxious, angry, vulnerable) and very disagreeable (competitive, suspicious of others) are likely to be scum read by tone when Town. I mostly believe this because I realized that other players who have a similar temperament are frequently getting pushed as scum by strangers in their games as well.

Now with that said, what about you, Grib? What is your playstyle like in the early, mid and late game, and do you often get scum read for your tone as Town?

There is a very obvious lack of tilt here, or passion, or urgency. If Frog is town here.

My problem with thjs is that you assumed I gave up and that there weren't any NAI reasons for my decreased energy levels.

[Grib]

Dramatic, yes. Serious, no.

I did say I was originally going to wait until tonight to post my “Frog is lurking” theory. Then I got bored and posted it. If you want to take the spotlight, please do.

[Elements]

Is it to early to ask frog to claim?

This is role phishing

You're right. asking the person that is almost unanimously scumread to claim is phishing

[Elements]

Firebringer died last night. He was a

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

@everyone townreading Elements for D3

I'm assuming that the Fire kill was a failed TPR hunt. If anyone wants to challenge me on that claim then come at me.

Most of us are coming at you. Just because you thought Fire was cop with an inno on me doesn't mean anyone else did.

With that in mind, what do you think Elements is trying to accomplish on page 61 with this series of questions:

Spoiler:

@Frog, where are your reads at with Aisa and Bella after the last couple of flips?

I had some things to say that are better left unsaid.

Is it time for you to say them yet?

any reason for NM over Frog?

Once we kill the second mafia I’m not opposed to kicking NM out of the game next.

Are you opposed to kicking nm out the game before the second mafia and if so why?

Is it to early to ask frog to claim?

I'm not saying that any of you are stupid for not noticing this because IIRC I was one of the first to trust Elements on D1. I didn't find much reason to suspect Elements on D1 but I'm

high

certainty that Elements is scum based on their D2 and D3 play. On D2 Elements is the best candidate to be a/the busser on BBT and on D3 Elements is trying to narrow down an investigative TPR. For example, in 1518 Elements is trying to figure out whether Grib specifically has an

inno

on NM. That is like...the only point to that question and I don't think that it can be Town motivated.

I can also say that I'm pretty sure (maybe

moderate

certainty) there is a scum roleblocker and I'm

low

certainty that Elements is the scum roleblocker.

Me trying to interact with you is not "narrowing down for a pr". You literally said yourself "if you want to read me talk to me not about me" I tried to do that and now you're calling me scum. You have given 0 reads these last 2 days except whoever is easiest to attack at the time, and Aisa. Hence me asking you about Aisa. As you

may

have noticed I've been enjoying this game quite a bit recently and we had that explosion of activity you all but ignored. I ran out of things I wanted to say and so when there were new things to interact with I jumped on them.

Killing Fire as a TPR hunt and saying there's a mafia roleblocker reads as TMI to me.

Perhaps if you actually gave reads people would be less likely to want to vote you.

[Elements]

The number of buzz-words used in these last few posts is mad

[Elements]

I had some things to say that are better left unsaid.

Is it time for you to say them yet?[/quote]
You still haven't said what these things are/were

[Elements]

@eira as it's the topic of the day, what do you make of Frog's return?

[Elements]

So I've looked over a few of Frog's games and the only other game I found him saying things like "I think x is scum with high certainty" or any reads along those lines was a game in which he was SK. Didn't do it in any of the town or scum games I looked through.
I have no idea what this means

[Eiralox]

@elements

pretty meh. i'm still not sure what they're saying about you, after i had to deal with bbt i still don't get the feel that you/bbt was theatre so when it comes to their opening post at least i definitely don't agree. you have a point about their reads i guess, at this point i'm wondering if frog thinks you're scum, who do they like for third?

the N_M/Enchant willingness to hammer gives me pause yet as of now i have decent reasons on town! bella, aisa, grib and elements, not so much frogster tbh... trying to read them has been like a contracted seesaw ride to me, but so far i'm today i'm low-key unimpresed with them. idk just a general vibe i'm getting of looking for the correct angle that'll make them survive i guess.

I'm tied down irl but rn i feel like voting frogster in 24-36 hrs, i'll try to be around. If it's not frogster then this game might actually be a lol fest with with N_M/enchant scum, which I earlier said doesnt seem likely to me so meh.

The interactions between bbt/frogster do give me pause, but on the order of likelihood frog/bbt bussing is more liklier than bbt/elements, for the simple reason i've already stated that emotionally i doon';t get a scum feel from u/bbt.

@Frogster: IF you feel so troong about elements! scum, who do like for third?

[Elements]

Disclaimer: I'm going to treat myself as town for this analysis because that takes out a variable and makes this easier for me.

Okay here is what I was looking for earlier. The problem with the VCA Elements has presented is that it doesn't include the impact of their own vote on the wagon movements. I think this disclaimer is an example of lampshading which is NAI (I think?) What's scummy in Elements ISO is the use of VCA to explain their reads because it helps to project the image of being reasonable while not requiring any descriptions for how they feel about given players.

A point which is completely undermined by the fact I actually give reads in separate posts unlike you

[Elements]

Frog's entire 'case' on me is that I'm TPR hunting because I've been asking people about their reads. That is literally all you do in mafia. Ask people about their reads. That's ALL there is to do. Frog is trying to push me on the basis of me playing the game.

[Elements]

Apologies for the indignant mini-rant but I'm annoyed and wanted to get it out my system

[Frogsterking]

You have given 0 reads these last 2 days except whoever is easiest to attack at the time, and Aisa.

This is really rich coming from the player who pushed me while I was inactive and has angled constantly to appear "logical" about voting NM:

I dislike that NM didn't vote BBT at all

Maybe Grib NM

I probably owe it to Firebringer to leave you alone for now anyways.

Problem is, aside from Frog I don't have a better candidate for the last mafia. NM? I really want to believe I'm correctly townrading Bella/Eira/Aisa.

NM slots in with BBT as a partner I think

Not_Mafia
Has vote for: Me (biggest wagon), Aisa (making it the biggest wagon), Bella (weren't really any wagons at the time), Frog (biggest wagon)
The only biggest wagon NM didn't voted for was BBT. Both day 1 and day 2.
Conclusion: NM fits with BBT as scum

Caption hereeeee
__

Frog's entire 'case' on me is that I'm TPR hunting because I've been asking people about their reads. That is literally all you do in mafia. Ask people about their reads. That's ALL there is to do. Frog is trying to push me on the basis of me playing the game.

This is straw manning my argument because

1) that's not my entire point on Elements (Elements BBT bus vote)
2) the questions Elements asked are clearly useful for narrowing down who may have

living

inno reports (1518) and I don't see any solving purpose behind. Also like 1520? I'm pretty sure I'm like lucid and I think Elements is phishing?

If Bella is a partner, then BBT charged himself with protecting her. With the way he played, I don't think she's his partner. And the Firebringer kill would be hella weird after Bella openly shaded him at deadline for townreading you.

Do you think the Firebringer kill indicates me as scum more than Bella as scum?

Yes.

But I’m by no means locked onto that. Just need a healthy amount of discussion and different perspectives.

So I hard bus my partner and then kill of the only person that's town reading me?

^^ yes because the Fire kill was a TPR hunt. This is a misdirection because at the time the kill was made there was no reason for Elements to believe they would be pushed hard today or that they would need a pocket alive to defend them.

[Frogsterking]

Disclaimer: I'm going to treat myself as town for this analysis because that takes out a variable and makes this easier for me.

Okay here is what I was looking for earlier. The problem with the VCA Elements has presented is that it doesn't include the impact of their own vote on the wagon movements. I think this disclaimer is an example of lampshading which is NAI (I think?) What's scummy in Elements ISO is the use of VCA to explain their reads because it helps to project the image of being reasonable while not requiring any descriptions for how they feel about given players.

A point which is completely undermined by the fact I actually give reads in separate posts unlike you

...says the active posting scum player to the lurking town slot who accuses them

[Frogsterking]

Disclaimer: I'm going to treat myself as town for this analysis because that takes out a variable and makes this easier for me.

Okay here is what I was looking for earlier. The problem with the VCA Elements has presented is that it doesn't include the impact of their own vote on the wagon movements. I think this disclaimer is an example of lampshading which is NAI (I think?) What's scummy in Elements ISO is the use of VCA to explain their reads because it helps to project the image of being reasonable while not requiring any descriptions for how they feel about given players.

A point which is completely undermined by the fact I actually give reads in separate posts unlike you

...says the active posting scum player to the lurking town slot who accuses them

Pings me back to this scum poster from one of my first games:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=325

FMPOV Elements is acting like a deep scum who got caught off guard thanks to yours truly.

[Elements]

Everything you're saying is such garbage

[Elements]

Disclaimer: I'm going to treat myself as town for this analysis because that takes out a variable and makes this easier for me.

Okay here is what I was looking for earlier. The problem with the VCA Elements has presented is that it doesn't include the impact of their own vote on the wagon movements. I think this disclaimer is an example of lampshading which is NAI (I think?) What's scummy in Elements ISO is the use of VCA to explain their reads because it helps to project the image of being reasonable while not requiring any descriptions for how they feel about given players.

A point which is completely undermined by the fact I actually give reads in separate posts unlike you

...says the active posting scum player to the lurking town slot who accuses them

Pings me back to this scum poster from one of my first games:

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=325

FMPOV Elements is acting like a deep scum who got caught off guard thanks to yours truly.

Jeez, get off your high horse and stop massaging your own ego

[Elements]

Why are you not commenting of Grin's push on you?

[Frogsterking]

@Frogster: IF you feel so troong about elements! scum, who do like for third?

I have very little idea and I'm hoping the final slot can be resolved by night actions.