Cosmos Mafia (Dawn 1)

[Past Present Future]

@rat, post 930? I didn't read that far yet. It's a pretty good post, second half of his iso isn't so bad either out of context. Maybe I should be voting one of the people who light scumread him but never voted him, oops i lost those posts oh well. I don't agree all of it, however, there's lot of merit to eliminating the sources of chaos in town. There's also merit to painting someone as a source of chaos if you want to get them killed, which is what math could be doing every time he says welcome back to the thread, please focus on me vs. mastina as he has done with myself and enchant.

Will probably unvote RR and

vote a 3 word hydra or some null read later

when i finish reading if RR is as town as people say in the next 20 pages. Currently leaning towards keeping both math and mastina alive for a day and letting nightkills/night actions/a sick d1 mafia flip sort them out. This runs the risk of having town devolve into chaos if their voices are too strong so it requires everyone else to keep their heads on straight.

[Scarfmanship]

A THREE WORD HYDRA

[Scarfmanship]

Sorry did that scare you?

[T-Bone]

Plus again you're not even speaking to the reality of the game. I am the only one scumreading you. Who are all these people scumreading you that you need to shut up?

Frustratingly it seems everyone else thinks that when you are scummy it's a town tell for you so good job I guess? Sorry, I believe everyone plays to the best of their ability and can't town read bad posts just because "that's the way they post". You're certainly smart enough to play into other players' perception of how you play, yeah?

You keep making a number of posts that I'd consider bad posts, but I think it's town indicative for you

Be specific.

[Past Present Future]

I think the fact that several players have blinkers on right now is harming the gamestate. This would change after a Mastina elimination, but I still would prefer to vote a scumread of mine today. I don't see too much point in voting Mastina off today, when the likeliest outcome of D2 is MathBlade shooting Mastina.

Furitive, the two of us are trying to accomplish the same thing. Vote DDS with me.

You too, Yume.

I would invite PPF but they have disliked me ever since I said something negative about three word hydras and they took it to mean them.

I'm still a little sus about how careful they are about changing their vote, which is part of the reason why I made that taunt. I knew they wouldn't go through with it without more validation.

@maid cafe, @professorxotic: You say the game feels stale. That's because the gamestate is being engineered to feel stale so that everyone feels like their only option is to vote mastina. You are not immune to propaganda. Think about what is happening. We already have multiple PRs with mastina in their crosshairs, plus I am pretty sure I know what role mastina is and I want to see what she claims her actions are.

@bunny, you agree with dds on a kill list. Vote there.
@math, you are the one making the gamestate feel stale by drowning out everyone else's voices and using language that warps the narrative of the game around your focus on mastina. You need only read the posts of the others in the thread to see that what you are doing is antitown, even if you're right about mastina.

@everyone, friendly reminder that everything in mafia is made up, and the points don't matter. Letters are just funny squiggles and you can say or do anything you want.

Now that we're getting somewhere, aren't you glad that I drew attention towards something other than tunnelers?

If you wanted to specify DDS then you wouldn’t have said “a three word hydra”. And I’m always “careful” with my votes, so a bad reason to suss me. But I feel like you’re trying to talk to me like you think I’m an idiot.

You clearly said a three word hydra NOT DDS, so you can stop trying to mindfuck with me.

[Past Present Future]

A THREE WORD HYDRA

Sorry did that scare you?

No, it just makes me want you dead. Keep it up.

[T-Bone]

But if I'm informed...then I am informed she is scum because we're on the same team. That is 100% the only way I can know her alignment in this game. So you should be voting for her and then when she flips scum try to lim me tomorrow.

Or maybe the other way around, because if that were the case, you'd just kill me when she flips scum, or she'd kill me if you flipped scum. Either way, I'll be that and thus unable to lim you tomorrow, even if she flips scum.

What is the other way around??? I'm town and I know she's scum because...?

You see, I've played that game before. Scum asks me to spare them today and then push them the next day, and then kill me before that next day comes.

I'd like you to vote me if you think I'm scum to be honest. It would be the most honest play you've made all day phase. I never asked you to spare me, and I never will. Why did you make this statement?

[T-Bone]

Does anyone think I'm asking Yume gotcha questions or what? I feel like I'm asking reasonable questions based on the things they are saying. Someone sanity check me if its not the case.

[unwnd]

I've looked into your disposition towards mastina and why you believe she's town for her idiosyncrasies. However, I don't believe them to keep her away from scrutiny. You could even say that she's playing them up to a greater effect. If you're reading her recent posts-- what do you exactly think of them? I asked this question earlier but why are the people who are townreading mastina not applying themselves to understand/work with her.

I don't agree with your perception of what's happening re: mastina. I do feel there's weirdness around her but I don't feel there's a lack of intent to work with her. The amount of counters suggest this. How do you feel people are not working with her?

If your theory is right, then the only logical conclusion is town think she's wrong and scum are avoiding her wagon because she provides value. Do you agree?

Also Scarfman seems particularly annoyed/aggressive and claiming I somehow overreacted to something which is ??? He's claiming some sort of bias when it's OMGUS against Nancy head. Got no idea how to read that.

~Titus

You don't? I keep referring back to her last string of posts when I think about her own thread value. This is not dismissive of her, rather I just get this feeling that not a lot of people are paying attention to her.

I'm not sure how two thoughts line up with town believing she's wrong therefore her wagon is being avoided by scum for..value? This game existed before me, but even now I can feel the reverberations from her elongated conflict with MathBlade etc. So that being said, if mastina is town here then scum have

greater

reason to push on this. Mastina has already damaged her thread reputation therefore it's an easy commit. I would expect scum to be all over this wagon in this regard.

Maybe you feel the opposite however. Maybe you think that mastina is town and her elimination is more like town eating at themselves. That perspective is interesting to me but I don't know if I believe in it. I think when town is in disarray there is more going on even if the energy of the room is sucked dry right now. Does that make sense?

[Yume]

But if I'm informed...then I am informed she is scum because we're on the same team. That is 100% the only way I can know her alignment in this game. So you should be voting for her and then when she flips scum try to lim me tomorrow.

Or maybe the other way around, because if that were the case, you'd just kill me when she flips scum, or she'd kill me if you flipped scum. Either way, I'll be that and thus unable to lim you tomorrow, even if she flips scum.

What is the other way around??? I'm town and I know she's scum because...?

You see, I've played that game before. Scum asks me to spare them today and then push them the next day, and then kill me before that next day comes.

I'd like you to vote me if you think I'm scum to be honest. It would be the most honest play you've made all day phase. I never asked you to spare me, and I never will. Why did you make this statement?

Because you said to lim mastina now and you later.

[Yume]

But if I'm informed...then I am informed she is scum because we're on the same team. That is 100% the only way I can know her alignment in this game. So you should be voting for her and then when she flips scum try to lim me tomorrow.

Or maybe the other way around, because if that were the case, you'd just kill me when she flips scum, or she'd kill me if you flipped scum. Either way, I'll be that and thus unable to lim you tomorrow, even if she flips scum.

What is the other way around??? I'm town and I know she's scum because...?

You see, I've played that game before. Scum asks me to spare them today and then push them the next day, and then kill me before that next day comes.

I'd like you to vote me if you think I'm scum to be honest. It would be the most honest play you've made all day phase. I never asked you to spare me, and I never will. Why did you make this statement?

Because you said to lim mastina now and you later.

In other words, you go 'don't lim me now, lim this other player, but don't lim me until tomorrow, so I'd have a chance to kill you before you can push me!'

[Past Present Future]

That post was addressed to Titus, so I’ll let her answer it. I tr Yume because she has a very distinct night and day alignment-based style of posting. In most games I’ve played with her, her alignment becomes super obvious really quickly. It’s extremely polarized.

[unwnd]

I understand that me saying 'scum are more likely to push mastina' can seem contradicting when I am advocating for it. However, there is a lot of scum to sift through. I don't believe in one wagon being pure and the other less. It's probably a bit more complicated than that. When you have 3 factions all vying for majority, it can become difficult to just rely on wagonomics. I believe that mastina has the most associative equity based on the fact that everyone by now has formed an opinion on her. Now am I pushing mastina

just

for this reason? No. I do think though that regardless of what mastina flips and whether I'm right about it or not, you will be able to start identifying people by how they treated mastina. I think it was RR who believes that three particular people whom defended mastina must be her lackeys or some sort.

I don't believe in this, but you can build up accountability this way. This is why I was appalled by Dingle proposing 3 literal who slots (yes, including myself) because it doesn't lead to anything. I think those are the safest fucking picks you could make, and if you wanna talk about scum behavior then welllll

[T-Bone]

But if I'm informed...then I am informed she is scum because we're on the same team. That is 100% the only way I can know her alignment in this game. So you should be voting for her and then when she flips scum try to lim me tomorrow.

Or maybe the other way around, because if that were the case, you'd just kill me when she flips scum, or she'd kill me if you flipped scum. Either way, I'll be that and thus unable to lim you tomorrow, even if she flips scum.

What is the other way around??? I'm town and I know she's scum because...?

You see, I've played that game before. Scum asks me to spare them today and then push them the next day, and then kill me before that next day comes.

I'd like you to vote me if you think I'm scum to be honest. It would be the most honest play you've made all day phase. I never asked you to spare me, and I never will. Why did you make this statement?

Because you said to lim mastina now and you later.

You can try to lim me first if you want, I don't care. What I'm getting at is that you have come up with a scenario where Mastina has to be scum, based on what you said in this thread. So that you're trying to lim neither of us (and reading her as town despite the insinuation I know she's scum because I'm scum with her) doesn't make sense with what you said.

[unwnd]

I see your posts a lot T-Bone and I usually just come to the conclusion of 'reasonable'

Yet you're the one who has been at the helm of mastina's wagon, so what do you think about the people who are on there with you?

[unwnd]

Regardless I'm down to just chat

That is me at my most productive

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

This is why I was appalled by Dingle proposing 3 literal who slots (yes, including myself) because it doesn't lead to anything. I think those are the safest fucking picks you could make, and if you wanna talk about scum behavior then welllll

I think the who slots are our best shot of hitting actual scum and I care more about that than making some sort of statement with a read that doesn't match my reality

[MathBlade]

Does anyone think I'm asking Yume gotcha questions or what? I feel like I'm asking reasonable questions based on the things they are saying. Someone sanity check me if its not the case.

I think I find your questions unproductive.

I am not sure if they are gotcha or not but I don’t think they are helpful.

It’s extremely unlikely we elim Yume today.

So I’d ask what is your goal by asking them?

[T-Bone]

I'd respect your game more if you even made an excuse like "I forgot this was multiball, I thought/think you were/are scum who 100% knows she's town because you're scum. But then got caught up in the argument and forgot there are multiple teams so scum can't know if someone is town or not." Not those exact words, but just some sort of acknowledgement that you are A) actively following along with the game and B) actually reading my posts. I'm not trying to catch you out, I'm trying to sort you better.

Honestly admitting when you've made a mistake would have gone a long way with me. You say you want me to reconsider my reads (specifically on Mastina, but I would imagine you think I should reconsider other reads) but you are so busy being dug into a nonsensical position and unable to clarify your position it just comes off as defensive to me. Which since I already scum read you, makes it look like you crumble under pressure when scum. It makes it very difficult for me to even reconsider this read.

So like, I'm not going to keep going in circles with you. I tried to get you to clarify your words so that if you are town, I could get a better understanding where you're coming from. But I can't understand where you're coming from. You're either too defiant or too scum and I cannot tell the difference.

[T-Bone]

I see your posts a lot T-Bone and I usually just come to the conclusion of 'reasonable'

Yet you're the one who has been at the helm of mastina's wagon, so what do you think about the people who are on there with you?

In short the people I have the stronger townleans are with me on the Mastina wagon. That in itself doesn't mean anything, but it makes me feel better that I'm on the right track. Maybe we're all wrong, or maybe they are scum using me to get a mislim. That's something I don't know right now and can only reevaluate with time and flips.

[T-Bone]

Does anyone think I'm asking Yume gotcha questions or what? I feel like I'm asking reasonable questions based on the things they are saying. Someone sanity check me if its not the case.

I think I find your questions unproductive.

I am not sure if they are gotcha or not but I don’t think they are helpful.

It’s extremely unlikely we elim Yume today.

So I’d ask what is your goal by asking them?

Trying to sort. I am apparently the only person who reads Yume as scum. Not everyone is scum, so some townies have a real town read. Do I have a hero read or am I missing something? That's what I was trying to find out.

[Past Present Future]

I've looked into your disposition towards mastina and why you believe she's town for her idiosyncrasies. However, I don't believe them to keep her away from scrutiny. You could even say that she's playing them up to a greater effect. If you're reading her recent posts-- what do you exactly think of them? I asked this question earlier but why are the people who are townreading mastina not applying themselves to understand/work with her.

I don't agree with your perception of what's happening re: mastina. I do feel there's weirdness around her but I don't feel there's a lack of intent to work with her. The amount of counters suggest this. How do you feel people are not working with her?

If your theory is right, then the only logical conclusion is town think she's wrong and scum are avoiding her wagon because she provides value. Do you agree?

Also Scarfman seems particularly annoyed/aggressive and claiming I somehow overreacted to something which is ??? He's claiming some sort of bias when it's OMGUS against Nancy head. Got no idea how to read that.

~Titus

You don't? I keep referring back to her last string of posts when I think about her own thread value. This is not dismissive of her, rather I just get this feeling that not a lot of people are paying attention to her.

I'm not sure how two thoughts line up with town believing she's wrong therefore her wagon is being avoided by scum for..value? This game existed before me, but even now I can feel the reverberations from her elongated conflict with MathBlade etc. So that being said, if mastina is town here then scum have

greater

reason to push on this. Mastina has already damaged her thread reputation therefore it's an easy commit. I would expect scum to be all over this wagon in this regard.

Maybe you feel the opposite however. Maybe you think that mastina is town and her elimination is more like town eating at themselves. That perspective is interesting to me but I don't know if I believe in it. I think when town is in disarray there is more going on even if the energy of the room is sucked dry right now. Does that make sense?

What in particular do you feel is not being paid attention to? We just ran up RR who is a mastina scumread. I don't see how it works.

What I'm meaning is by for value is that mastina provides two outside values to scum at least even if she is town. 1) if she and Math are alive at the time Math gets a gun, mastina would likely be shot. Unless mastina is scum, that's a death that is not them. Voting mastina gets rid of a human shield. 2) If mastina has bad reads (what I call a townbeard) scum would be reluctant to vote mastina.

At the same time, they'd want to ignore her good reads, if she has any.

The energy of the room is sucked dry because people don't want to vote a tunnel but want some sense of control IMO. With people feeling like they have little say in the wagon, there's little content but people nipping at each other's heels or the main wagon of discussion trying to get the tunnelers to stop so the rest of us can play. For awhile, I've debated trying to take over day 1 myself to just break things up unexpectedly even though I told myself Nancy would lead (although I do like her vote). On the other hand, I've resigned that maybe mastina should strategically be the elimination even if I disagree with it for the reasons listed above.

I get the feeling there's more to the picture than what we have. That could also be fueling the drastic gamestate. There's also a pattern that I'm surprised by that I'm withholding for now. I'm surprised something that hasn't happened based on the conduct of the gamestate.

~Titus

[T-Bone]

I see your posts a lot T-Bone and I usually just come to the conclusion of 'reasonable'

Yet you're the one who has been at the helm of mastina's wagon, so what do you think about the people who are on there with you?

Spoiler: Reads 1.0

Town Lean
Frozen Angel
Nancy and the Nancettes

Null Lean
Radical Rat
Enchant
Proffessotic
Maid Cafe (confirmed in my heart)
MathBlade

Null
Scafmanship
MMR
Bunnyonce
STD

Scum Lean
Mastina
Radja
Furtive
Yume
DDS

This is where I was last week for reference. If I were to make changes it would be to move your slot up to null, Furtive up to scum lean but less than the others, possibly null, Maid Cafe down to null, and Bunny down to scum lean.

[Yume]

Does anyone think I'm asking Yume gotcha questions or what? I feel like I'm asking reasonable questions based on the things they are saying. Someone sanity check me if its not the case.

I think I find your questions unproductive.

I am not sure if they are gotcha or not but I don’t think they are helpful.

It’s extremely unlikely we elim Yume today.

So I’d ask what is your goal by asking them?

Trying to sort. I am apparently the only person who reads Yume as scum.

Which proves you're wrong. Not to mention how you're saying that we should trust multiple people who scumread mastina, yet when it comes to me, you're saying that we should trust your word against that of multiple people. Which comes off as hypocritical to me.

[MegAzumarill]

.