Cosmos Mafia (Dawn 1)

[Past Present Future]

TBone's position, although I disagree with it, is part of why I townread TBone. A lot of times people confuse "reevaluating" with coming around to their position rather than respecting a difference of opinion. The common mantra is that I have all the "facts" so if I give more "information" then people will come around. However, sometimes people look at the same event and just see it differently (see: What color is the dress?).

Given how I feel about the strategic implications, I don't think scum would sit on mastina unless they felt their partners were in extremely wagonable positions. So his play makes sense for someone who legitimately feels that way. Truth be told, sometimes I go back and forth about what scum would do but I think TBone's approach is town here based on his detailed positions. He could be deep scum but I highly doubt it. The problem is, even with the stalled gamestate, I just feel like I'm missing some facts to be very conclusive.

~Titus

[Radical Rat]

Does anyone think I'm asking Yume gotcha questions or what? I feel like I'm asking reasonable questions based on the things they are saying. Someone sanity check me if its not the case.

I think I find your questions unproductive.

I am not sure if they are gotcha or not but I don’t think they are helpful.

It’s extremely unlikely we elim Yume today.

So I’d ask what is your goal by asking them?

Trying to sort. I am apparently the only person who reads Yume as scum. Not everyone is scum, so some townies have a real town read. Do I have a hero read or am I missing something? That's what I was trying to find out.

I also think Yume is probably scum.

[Yume]

Does anyone think I'm asking Yume gotcha questions or what? I feel like I'm asking reasonable questions based on the things they are saying. Someone sanity check me if its not the case.

I think I find your questions unproductive.

I am not sure if they are gotcha or not but I don’t think they are helpful.

It’s extremely unlikely we elim Yume today.

So I’d ask what is your goal by asking them?

Trying to sort. I am apparently the only person who reads Yume as scum. Not everyone is scum, so some townies have a real town read. Do I have a hero read or am I missing something? That's what I was trying to find out.

I also think Yume is probably scum.

Yet neither of you are willing to vote for me.

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Plus again you're not even speaking to the reality of the game. I am the only one scumreading you. Who are all these people scumreading you that you need to shut up?

Frustratingly it seems everyone else thinks that when you are scummy it's a town tell for you so good job I guess? Sorry, I believe everyone plays to the best of their ability and can't town read bad posts just because "that's the way they post". You're certainly smart enough to play into other players' perception of how you play, yeah?

You keep making a number of posts that I'd consider bad posts, but I think it's town indicative for you

Be specific.

So the root thing that irks me about your posts and general stance in this game is the hard and fast rules you set yourself and expect everyone else to follow when it comes to proper play and solving. You'll say things that are essentially 'this person is scum because this post is bad' that feel like takes that have very little to do with how likely someone is to be scum, and have a lot more to do with how you personally *want* town and scum to play. And that's really frustrating to me. I'm not here to have a series of logical arguments about a bunch of things that ultimately feel irrelevant to someone's alignment, I'm here to find and take out scum. The ballroom dance of hashing it out in a detailed argument often just favours the players who are best at playing that specific way, regardless of their alignment/accuracy/anything that actually benefits town. And so the way you just casually state what town should be doing and say that someone is scum because they aren't doing things that you think are beneficial just looks clearly innacurate as a way of solving to me.

You're probably town though, and I think that largely because of the way you are making yourself the center of attention narratively in the thread. You're doing more than you'd need to be doing right now for scum utility I think. You're also doing a bunch of things that don't intuitively make you look good to the thread at large, which I don't think you bother doing if you're scum here.

I'm not super interested in going into even more specifics than this because it doesn't feel like a productive use of my time. If you wanted like a selection of your own quotes from me or something then sorry, but I feel like this is as close as I can get to an accurate response to this.

[unwnd]

That poist isn't directed to me but after a nap i want to give my take on it

[MathBlade]

TBone's position, although I disagree with it, is part of why I townread TBone. A lot of times people confuse "reevaluating" with coming around to their position rather than respecting a difference of opinion. The common mantra is that I have all the "facts" so if I give more "information" then people will come around. However, sometimes people look at the same event and just see it differently (see: What color is the dress?).

Given how I feel about the strategic implications, I don't think scum would sit on mastina unless they felt their partners were in extremely wagonable positions. So his play makes sense for someone who legitimately feels that way. Truth be told, sometimes I go back and forth about what scum would do but I think TBone's approach is town here based on his detailed positions. He could be deep scum but I highly doubt it. The problem is, even with the stalled gamestate, I just feel like I'm missing some facts to be very conclusive.

~Titus

This is quite possibly the first thing you have said I have agreed with.

The fact the only wagons have been on Mastina pushers make me think this even more.

I also think one of the “facts” you’re under the impression of is giving you possibly a false strategic play and leans into why I want someone to sell another scum hard or Mastina dies. It’s entirely my misleading but for absolutely protown reasons. It is not protown to elaborate on that fact as it won’t change a read of anyone but only strategy.

I hope this makes sense to you and will make sense post flip to you Titus. Please bookmark this.

[Radical Rat]

Does anyone think I'm asking Yume gotcha questions or what? I feel like I'm asking reasonable questions based on the things they are saying. Someone sanity check me if its not the case.

I think I find your questions unproductive.

I am not sure if they are gotcha or not but I don’t think they are helpful.

It’s extremely unlikely we elim Yume today.

So I’d ask what is your goal by asking them?

Trying to sort. I am apparently the only person who reads Yume as scum. Not everyone is scum, so some townies have a real town read. Do I have a hero read or am I missing something? That's what I was trying to find out.

I also think Yume is probably scum.

Yet neither of you are willing to vote for me.

I think mastina is more likely to be scum in a vacuum, whereas my scumread on you is dependent on her. Therefore, it makes sense to eliminate mastina first.

Having said that, you HAVE been on my list that I'd be willing to compromise on for a long while now, and if people are more comfortable eliminating you than mastina, I'll help out. But that doesn't appear to be the case right now.

[unwnd]

Post*

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

That poist isn't directed to me but after a nap i want to give my take on it

That's fine, it's also vaguely in your direction conceptually

I have a lot of feelings on this subject but they often don't feel worth sharing

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

I don't want to ramble on about things others don't care about
I'd rather be vague and focus my effort where I think it's worth most than explain things and get ignored or talked over

[Dingle Dangle Scarecrow]

Gosh I provide spicy mafia content when I'm annoyed

[unwnd]

I don't want to ramble on about things others don't care about
I'd rather be vague and focus my effort where I think it's worth most than explain things and get ignored or talked over

I have lived my "mafia career" by this very line of thinking

Your rambling would hold merit to me

[Past Present Future]

TBone's position, although I disagree with it, is part of why I townread TBone. A lot of times people confuse "reevaluating" with coming around to their position rather than respecting a difference of opinion. The common mantra is that I have all the "facts" so if I give more "information" then people will come around. However, sometimes people look at the same event and just see it differently (see: What color is the dress?).

Given how I feel about the strategic implications, I don't think scum would sit on mastina unless they felt their partners were in extremely wagonable positions. So his play makes sense for someone who legitimately feels that way. Truth be told, sometimes I go back and forth about what scum would do but I think TBone's approach is town here based on his detailed positions. He could be deep scum but I highly doubt it. The problem is, even with the stalled gamestate, I just feel like I'm missing some facts to be very conclusive.

~Titus

This is quite possibly the first thing you have said I have agreed with.

The fact the only wagons have been on Mastina pushers make me think this even more.

I also think one of the “facts” you’re under the impression of is giving you possibly a false strategic play and leans into why I want someone to sell another scum hard or Mastina dies. It’s entirely my misleading but for absolutely protown reasons. It is not protown to elaborate on that fact as it won’t change a read of anyone but only strategy.

I hope this makes sense to you and will make sense post flip to you Titus. Please bookmark this.

The game does seem to be devolving around mastina. I don't think mastina is a good vote and I can't bring myself to vote for a townread, but I'm not going to bog down the thread in drama to avoid it happening. Nancy would kill me if I did that no matter how frustrated I got with you or the gamestate as a whole. It's a principal we have. That's just being a spoil sport and there's still plenty of useful data to be obtained. Plus, there is the chance of us being wrong. I highly doubt it given the meta of all players involved, strategy and VCs but we'll see.

What is the "fact" I am missing here? I know you said it's not protown to elaborate but if I have mistaken "facts" then I will go to mistaken conclusions. This feels more that we see the same thing but reach different conclusions.

Do you see the thing that I have been expecting to happen that hasn't?

I have never used a bookmark on MS but I assure you I am listening.

~Titus

[Yume]

Does anyone think I'm asking Yume gotcha questions or what? I feel like I'm asking reasonable questions based on the things they are saying. Someone sanity check me if its not the case.

I think I find your questions unproductive.

I am not sure if they are gotcha or not but I don’t think they are helpful.

It’s extremely unlikely we elim Yume today.

So I’d ask what is your goal by asking them?

Trying to sort. I am apparently the only person who reads Yume as scum. Not everyone is scum, so some townies have a real town read. Do I have a hero read or am I missing something? That's what I was trying to find out.

I also think Yume is probably scum.

Yet neither of you are willing to vote for me.

I think mastina is more likely to be scum in a vacuum, whereas my scumread on you is dependent on her. Therefore, it makes sense to eliminate mastina first.

Having said that, you HAVE been on my list that I'd be willing to compromise on for a long while now, and if people are more comfortable eliminating you than mastina, I'll help out. But that doesn't appear to be the case right now.

Will you still think I am scum if she flips town?

[MathBlade]

The “fact” is an incorrect assumption you have mechanically that is antitown to correct.
I can’t say more than that or it’s antitown.

Your question is too vague but maybe? I think so and that if I am right that thing makes Mastina more likely to be scum not less.

[Past Present Future]

I sometimes will when I'm very confident that I've solved the game and the resisters are scum or just being stubborn for stubborn sake but going world war three is actually very tiring and I know I am weakest with the least amount of information. I also don't happen to think you're coming from a scum perspective here. Feeling like someone outed you would get a rise out of you to tunnel. I also am a big fan of leashing vigs, never crumbing it, and never claiming it until after the bullets fly unless absolutely stuck. The vig thing absolutely derailed things and has forced me to play in a manner I don't care to day 1. Nancy was supposed to have near total control and here I am being a bit more in front because headstrong things have to in order to get any coordination.

pedit: Then you're going to have to deal with me proceeding on my incorrect assumptions. Nothing I can do as I won't rolefish you. My question was vague for a reason. I don't want to get more specific so I'll just keep talking about it with Nancy. Go hydras.

~Titus

[MathBlade]

I sometimes will when I'm very confident that I've solved the game and the resisters are scum or just being stubborn for stubborn sake but going world war three is actually very tiring and I know I am weakest with the least amount of information. I also don't happen to think you're coming from a scum perspective here. Feeling like someone outed you would get a rise out of you to tunnel. I also am a big fan of leashing vigs, never crumbing it, and never claiming it until after the bullets fly unless absolutely stuck. The vig thing absolutely derailed things and has forced me to play in a manner I don't care to day 1. Nancy was supposed to have near total control and here I am being a bit more in front because headstrong things have to in order to get any coordination.

pedit: Then you're going to have to deal with me proceeding on my incorrect assumptions. Nothing I can do as I won't rolefish you. My question was vague for a reason. I don't want to get more specific so I'll just keep talking about it with Nancy. Go hydras.

~Titus

Correct. And I

usually

agree with that philosophy.

I also didn’t want to play in this manner either.

So now go back and with your assumptions you have see why I wouldn’t agree on this

specific

case.

What assumption could you have that is wrong?

What assumption do you have that makes me really want Mastina dead?

Why did I sus her at the start?

Even this is too dangerous. But yeah I am pretty sure Mastina here has to die and if she is town she did one hell of a goof here by not letting me lurk.

[Past Present Future]

I sometimes will when I'm very confident that I've solved the game and the resisters are scum or just being stubborn for stubborn sake but going world war three is actually very tiring and I know I am weakest with the least amount of information. I also don't happen to think you're coming from a scum perspective here. Feeling like someone outed you would get a rise out of you to tunnel. I also am a big fan of leashing vigs, never crumbing it, and never claiming it until after the bullets fly unless absolutely stuck. The vig thing absolutely derailed things and has forced me to play in a manner I don't care to day 1. Nancy was supposed to have near total control and here I am being a bit more in front because headstrong things have to in order to get any coordination.

pedit: Then you're going to have to deal with me proceeding on my incorrect assumptions. Nothing I can do as I won't rolefish you. My question was vague for a reason. I don't want to get more specific so I'll just keep talking about it with Nancy. Go hydras.

~Titus

Correct. And I

usually

agree with that philosophy.

I also didn’t want to play in this manner either.

So now go back and with your assumptions you have see why I wouldn’t agree on this

specific

case.

What assumption could you have that is wrong?

What assumption do you have that makes me really want Mastina dead?

Why did I sus her at the start?

Even this is too dangerous. But yeah I am pretty sure Mastina here has to die and if she is town she did one hell of a goof here by not letting me lurk.

This is a bit too cryptic for me to look at over my lunch hour. I'll flag it for Nancy when we discuss.

Right now, with you being vig, your opinion carries an over abundant importance. I don't get why you crumbed anyway.

I didn't read as much detail of the start. I was prepping for a trial that got reassigned.

~Titus

[MathBlade]

I sometimes will when I'm very confident that I've solved the game and the resisters are scum or just being stubborn for stubborn sake but going world war three is actually very tiring and I know I am weakest with the least amount of information. I also don't happen to think you're coming from a scum perspective here. Feeling like someone outed you would get a rise out of you to tunnel. I also am a big fan of leashing vigs, never crumbing it, and never claiming it until after the bullets fly unless absolutely stuck. The vig thing absolutely derailed things and has forced me to play in a manner I don't care to day 1. Nancy was supposed to have near total control and here I am being a bit more in front because headstrong things have to in order to get any coordination.

pedit: Then you're going to have to deal with me proceeding on my incorrect assumptions. Nothing I can do as I won't rolefish you. My question was vague for a reason. I don't want to get more specific so I'll just keep talking about it with Nancy. Go hydras.

~Titus

Correct. And I

usually

agree with that philosophy.

I also didn’t want to play in this manner either.

So now go back and with your assumptions you have see why I wouldn’t agree on this

specific

case.

What assumption could you have that is wrong?

What assumption do you have that makes me really want Mastina dead?

Why did I sus her at the start?

Even this is too dangerous. But yeah I am pretty sure Mastina here has to die and if she is town she did one hell of a goof here by not letting me lurk.

This is a bit too cryptic for me to look at over my lunch hour. I'll flag it for Nancy when we discuss.

Right now, with you being vig, your opinion carries an over abundant importance. I don't get why you crumbed anyway.

I didn't read as much detail of the start. I was prepping for a trial that got reassigned.

~Titus

Answer the question of why I crumb and why I push on Mastina

And yes my opinion does.

So then why hasn’t Mastina been hammered?

She was at e-2 for the longest time and never claimed

She’s at e-1 now (I think?) and still no claim?

How would she be similar to a dayvig?

None of that makes sense to me.

And there’s a very specific reason a very specific scum group wants me dead. It’s that group I think Mastina is a part of.

[Past Present Future]

I sometimes will when I'm very confident that I've solved the game and the resisters are scum or just being stubborn for stubborn sake but going world war three is actually very tiring and I know I am weakest with the least amount of information. I also don't happen to think you're coming from a scum perspective here. Feeling like someone outed you would get a rise out of you to tunnel. I also am a big fan of leashing vigs, never crumbing it, and never claiming it until after the bullets fly unless absolutely stuck. The vig thing absolutely derailed things and has forced me to play in a manner I don't care to day 1. Nancy was supposed to have near total control and here I am being a bit more in front because headstrong things have to in order to get any coordination.

pedit: Then you're going to have to deal with me proceeding on my incorrect assumptions. Nothing I can do as I won't rolefish you. My question was vague for a reason. I don't want to get more specific so I'll just keep talking about it with Nancy. Go hydras.

~Titus

Correct. And I

usually

agree with that philosophy.

I also didn’t want to play in this manner either.

So now go back and with your assumptions you have see why I wouldn’t agree on this

specific

case.

What assumption could you have that is wrong?

What assumption do you have that makes me really want Mastina dead?

Why did I sus her at the start?

Even this is too dangerous. But yeah I am pretty sure Mastina here has to die and if she is town she did one hell of a goof here by not letting me lurk.

This is a bit too cryptic for me to look at over my lunch hour. I'll flag it for Nancy when we discuss.

Right now, with you being vig, your opinion carries an over abundant importance. I don't get why you crumbed anyway.

I didn't read as much detail of the start. I was prepping for a trial that got reassigned.

~Titus

Answer the question of why I crumb and why I push on Mastina

And yes my opinion does.

So then why hasn’t Mastina been hammered?

She was at e-2 for the longest time and never claimed

She’s at e-1 now (I think?) and still no claim?

How would she be similar to a dayvig?

None of that makes sense to me.

And there’s a very specific reason a very specific scum group wants me dead. It’s that group I think Mastina is a part of.

I had her down as similar to the no burn thing you mentioned. Am I wrong there?

Now that last part is interesting and doesn't jive with the thread at all. I'm not sure if

anyone

has voted you all game. So why do you think a particular scum group wants you dead? That's quite moonlogicky. In fact, it's something I've noted. Which scum group do you think wants you dead and why?

Do your reads separate by scumteam?

~Titus

[MathBlade]

I sometimes will when I'm very confident that I've solved the game and the resisters are scum or just being stubborn for stubborn sake but going world war three is actually very tiring and I know I am weakest with the least amount of information. I also don't happen to think you're coming from a scum perspective here. Feeling like someone outed you would get a rise out of you to tunnel. I also am a big fan of leashing vigs, never crumbing it, and never claiming it until after the bullets fly unless absolutely stuck. The vig thing absolutely derailed things and has forced me to play in a manner I don't care to day 1. Nancy was supposed to have near total control and here I am being a bit more in front because headstrong things have to in order to get any coordination.

pedit: Then you're going to have to deal with me proceeding on my incorrect assumptions. Nothing I can do as I won't rolefish you. My question was vague for a reason. I don't want to get more specific so I'll just keep talking about it with Nancy. Go hydras.

~Titus

Correct. And I

usually

agree with that philosophy.

I also didn’t want to play in this manner either.

So now go back and with your assumptions you have see why I wouldn’t agree on this

specific

case.

What assumption could you have that is wrong?

What assumption do you have that makes me really want Mastina dead?

Why did I sus her at the start?

Even this is too dangerous. But yeah I am pretty sure Mastina here has to die and if she is town she did one hell of a goof here by not letting me lurk.

This is a bit too cryptic for me to look at over my lunch hour. I'll flag it for Nancy when we discuss.

Right now, with you being vig, your opinion carries an over abundant importance. I don't get why you crumbed anyway.

I didn't read as much detail of the start. I was prepping for a trial that got reassigned.

~Titus

Answer the question of why I crumb and why I push on Mastina

And yes my opinion does.

So then why hasn’t Mastina been hammered?

She was at e-2 for the longest time and never claimed

She’s at e-1 now (I think?) and still no claim?

How would she be similar to a dayvig?

None of that makes sense to me.

And there’s a very specific reason a very specific scum group wants me dead. It’s that group I think Mastina is a part of.

I had her down as similar to the no burn thing you mentioned. Am I wrong there?

Now that last part is interesting and doesn't jive with the thread at all. I'm not sure if

anyone

has voted you all game. So why do you think a particular scum group wants you dead? That's quite moonlogicky. In fact, it's something I've noted. Which scum group do you think wants you dead and why?

Do your reads separate by scumteam?

~Titus

Mastina has, but I don’t mean dead by elim.

I can’t answer the rest. Sorry. Answer my questions above and you might be able to see why.

[MathBlade]

And yes my reads are by scumteam.

But if Mastina is not scum with X team then Mastina is really really unlucky in some things she did/said

The amount of sheer coincidence would be ridiculous

[Past Present Future]

I sometimes will when I'm very confident that I've solved the game and the resisters are scum or just being stubborn for stubborn sake but going world war three is actually very tiring and I know I am weakest with the least amount of information. I also don't happen to think you're coming from a scum perspective here. Feeling like someone outed you would get a rise out of you to tunnel. I also am a big fan of leashing vigs, never crumbing it, and never claiming it until after the bullets fly unless absolutely stuck. The vig thing absolutely derailed things and has forced me to play in a manner I don't care to day 1. Nancy was supposed to have near total control and here I am being a bit more in front because headstrong things have to in order to get any coordination.

pedit: Then you're going to have to deal with me proceeding on my incorrect assumptions. Nothing I can do as I won't rolefish you. My question was vague for a reason. I don't want to get more specific so I'll just keep talking about it with Nancy. Go hydras.

~Titus

Correct. And I

usually

agree with that philosophy.

I also didn’t want to play in this manner either.

So now go back and with your assumptions you have see why I wouldn’t agree on this

specific

case.

What assumption could you have that is wrong?

What assumption do you have that makes me really want Mastina dead?

Why did I sus her at the start?

Even this is too dangerous. But yeah I am pretty sure Mastina here has to die and if she is town she did one hell of a goof here by not letting me lurk.

This is a bit too cryptic for me to look at over my lunch hour. I'll flag it for Nancy when we discuss.

Right now, with you being vig, your opinion carries an over abundant importance. I don't get why you crumbed anyway.

I didn't read as much detail of the start. I was prepping for a trial that got reassigned.

~Titus

Answer the question of why I crumb and why I push on Mastina

And yes my opinion does.

So then why hasn’t Mastina been hammered?

She was at e-2 for the longest time and never claimed

She’s at e-1 now (I think?) and still no claim?

How would she be similar to a dayvig?

None of that makes sense to me.

And there’s a very specific reason a very specific scum group wants me dead. It’s that group I think Mastina is a part of.

I had her down as similar to the no burn thing you mentioned. Am I wrong there?

Now that last part is interesting and doesn't jive with the thread at all. I'm not sure if

anyone

has voted you all game. So why do you think a particular scum group wants you dead? That's quite moonlogicky. In fact, it's something I've noted. Which scum group do you think wants you dead and why?

Do your reads separate by scumteam?

~Titus

Mastina has, but I don’t mean dead by elim.

I can’t answer the rest. Sorry. Answer my questions above and you might be able to see why.

This is a bit too much. I can't argue with Nancy about ever voting our townread based on mechanical information that might be guesses. I am sympathetic to your position. I can't actually review evidence you say is inadmissible. That's speculation and not allowed and I don't do it in my mindsets unless I'm investigating. Voting at this point in the game is different than investigating.

~Titus

[Yume]

Well, I see no reason to continue. We'll all be rehashing the same argument, unless one side gives in.

VOTE: mastina

I am sorry, but sometimes sacrifices need to be made.

[Yume]

That, and Math finally gave some good reasons.