Cosmos Mafia (Dawn 1)

[MathBlade]

I think you explaining how this is a town mindset (given you’re claiming) does way more than just stating you’re town repeatedly.

I am pretty much exhausted after reading your posts and mentally clocked out.

[Bunnyonce]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

[Yume]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

She is.

[MathBlade]

I am sorry if this is cold Mastina but this is the exact same shit you did in the draft game with Drixx a long time ago.

If you’re going to claim give me something to evaluate you on.

Your feelings are important but the more you do this the caring factor goes down.

Please just explain and claim already.

[mastina]

If you write a post dedicated to why you think I'm scum I will do my best to respond

So in your head is mastina like this scum ringleader and the defenders are associated? I don't know if I can exactly see that, because it begs the question what happens if mastina goes over? All her defenders would be incriminated

(Btw I think it bears mentioning: everything unwnd is saying pretty much looks town, but I don't think it's actually town. I'm not convinced it's town, so much as I think that nothing unwnd has said so far is truly alignment-indicative one way or another.)

You were trying to look town without actually being town. (I believe the buzzword for this the kids use these days is LAMIST.)

I think the only way out of limbo is to look towards the future

For the record, I think that unwnd has a pretty good chance of being scum here. (See also 2320 + 2319.)

The reasoning is either lazy-town or scum, but the reason I think scum over lazy town is, explicitly, because I don't believe that unwnd even as a replacement takes the lazy-town route.

I want to reiterate,

The town is fully capable of changing the gamestate on their own. Fights with me be damned. Those are not the death-spirals those who want to push mastina votes are pretending they are.

That is all lazy reasoning and explicitly, a breeding room for scum to hide because "voting mastina for the health of the game thread" is not stating an alignment read on me. It is not trying to resolve me. It is not trying to sort me.

The actual fact of the matter is that with the extra time granted by the frozen deadline and the benefit of said time and distance, there was a

surge

of productivity in the game.

There is a fairly young Radical Rat wagon there, less than 48 hours old, that has had a chance to form/develop--which these voices going back to the "mastina and the toxic gamestate" viewpoint are

actively shutting down

.

The narrative of mastina-is-hurting-the-town was, probably (if I am being at my most self-critical), true--

at a time

.

It's not anymore, and pretending it is is, explicitly: not updating arguments to reflect the new gamestate.

These parts bear particular reiterating.

The gamestate did NOT stall.
The conclusions did NOT become inevitable.
The game did NOT circle back into the same.
The situation HAS changed, and evolved.

The narrative that the game is still the same as it was a week or two ago is, explicitly, not reflective of reality.

And the reason why 2277 is so scum is specifically BECAUSE of how lazy it is. It is an "easy" stance to take, that has zero consequences to it.

Tell me: what consequences are there to saying "eliminating mastina moves the gamestate forward"?

What is the downside of someone saying that?

It is something they can defend as "objectively true", as a genuine belief. It is something that many players have stated. It is something that has been repeated multiple times by multiple people.

So WHAT, I may ask, makes that a stance that is anything other than pure laziness?

It's lazy, in a scum-indicative way, specifically because unwnd is not a lazy town player. To say that my death helps the gamestate without an attempt to sort my alignment in good faith (engaging with RR who scumread me is not engaging in good faith btw), is in no way shape or form something that carries any negative repercussions.

There's no need to backtrack after my elimination. There's no need to take a stance that needs defending. There's no need to take a stance controversial. It is something that allows for a vote that anyone can cast. It is not, innately, inherently, a scum perspective, but regardless of alignment it is a

lazy

take. I'll reiterate this as well:

The only one with a fleshed out scumread on me is MathBlade.
The only three with nuanced scumreads on me are MathBlade, professotic, and T-Bone.
But nobody has

valid

reasons, and every. other. vote. on me has been lazy, with many of the lazy reasons being outright invalid, and every one of the lazy reads not being fleshed out and lacking nuance to the thought process.

Because while not everyone who voting me is scum, everyone who is voting me IS lazy.

You do not have a reason for scumreading me, unwnd. You have a reason for

voting

me--but it lacks the nuances and fleshed out nature of MathBlade, T-Bone, and professotic. (There's a damn good reason those are the only three consistently voting me that I have a townread on.)

I am however obligated to hunt scum and think your attitude/approach this game is you as one!

Your attitude/approach this game is, explicitly, lazy and uncreative.

You have no unique/original takes as a replacement in this game.
You have added nothing of note.
You have avoided taking stronger stances on most players.
You have avoided giving

reasons

for your reads on most players.
You have been giving the bare minimum, pretending to say a lot yet saying very little.

Which, yes, I know, ironic for me to be accusing you of it given my own issues.

But while it may be ironic and technically hypocritical--YOU do not have the same tendencies/history/style/justifications/etc. that I do.

I am still doing a lot. I'm saying a lot which could be said with far less, but it'd be disingenous as fuck to say I've said very little.

But for you, not so much. You are genuinely using a lot of words that form empty reasonless stances. You're accusing me of something you yourself are guilty of. If you think it's scum for me, then what does that say of YOU?

Yet you're still being apprehensive towards despite an olive branch
I don't understand

You have extended no olive branch. You've said a lot of words that amount to very little, used very lazy logic to hop onto my wagon, and have given little in the way of actual commitment in reads with solid reasons.

All from a slot I already thought was scum.

Your play solidified the scumread I already had.

And for Radja, it was

I've been keeping up on my phone, but the amount of players and hydra heads in this game make it hard for me to get much reads really.

This has a fairly good chance of being scum.

keeping up with nothing to say while doing scumplaining.

And on top of it all?

{Radja, Radical Rat} have had scumteam-indicative interactions the whole game, with you and your RR defense doubling down on those same interactions.

[Yume]

I am sorry if this is cold Mastina but this is the exact same shit you did in the draft game with Drixx a long time ago.

If you’re going to claim give me something to evaluate you on.

Your feelings are important but the more you do this the caring factor goes down.

Please just explain and claim already.

If you truly know her like you say you do, you would know how she does things and wouldn't ask this of her.

[MathBlade]

I am sorry if this is cold Mastina but this is the exact same shit you did in the draft game with Drixx a long time ago.

If you’re going to claim give me something to evaluate you on.

Your feelings are important but the more you do this the caring factor goes down.

Please just explain and claim already.

If you truly know her like you say you do, you would know how she does things and wouldn't ask this of her.

I do know how she normally does things.

However I change how I normally do things or do my best when they hurt others.

I am expressing my feelings here so Bree/Mastina/the person speaking can see it.

[MathBlade]

Do I expect her to change immediately? No.

Can she make a big long read wall with the claim in it? Yes.

Can she go from 8 long posts to 7 long posts? Yes.

It’s more that Bree/Mastina/the person speaking be cognizant of this. So she can get better at her own rate

[Yume]

I'd respect your game more if you even made an excuse like "I forgot this was multiball, I thought/think you were/are scum who 100% knows she's town because you're scum. But then got caught up in the argument and forgot there are multiple teams so scum can't know if someone is town or not." Not those exact words, but just some sort of acknowledgement that you are A) actively following along with the game and B) actually reading my posts. I'm not trying to catch you out, I'm trying to sort you better.

Honestly admitting when you've made a mistake would have gone a long way with me. You say you want me to reconsider my reads (specifically on Mastina, but I would imagine you think I should reconsider other reads) but you are so busy being dug into a nonsensical position and unable to clarify your position it just comes off as defensive to me. Which since I already scum read you, makes it look like you crumble under pressure when scum. It makes it very difficult for me to even reconsider this read.

So like, I'm not going to keep going in circles with you. I tried to get you to clarify your words so that if you are town, I could get a better understanding where you're coming from. But I can't understand where you're coming from. You're either too defiant or too scum and I cannot tell the difference.

Who are you talking to here, by the way?

[Scarfmanship]

Good move to try to stay alive, simply keep running down the infinite deadline and wait for more people to claw at another bad wagon. The sum of mastina's actions are not town and I do not care about self-centered metaposting.

[mastina]

You realize that following the LLD rule that makes your reads likely to be really bad if you’re town right?

This is not the first time you've said this, MathBlade, and I am getting to that first time you said it for why it's not true. But let me reiterate the summarized version:

There is a big fucking difference between the mastina persona having purposefully exaggerated early game townreads on players I don’t actually know very well,

Versus me out of the mastina persona fully open and honest having a late-day read on players who I am INTIMATELY familiar with.

The LLD rule applies to when I am in the mastina persona (my reads on those four are NOT in the mastina persona), in the RVS stages of the game (we are NOT in the RVS stages of the game), on players that I am NOT intimately familiar with (I AM intimately familiar with these four).

I have

exaggerated

confidence as mastina. In the earlygame, this exaggerated confidence can lead to scum being higher up in my readslist, especially when I am not familiar with the players in question. That is the basis of LLD's stance because LLD is used to dealing with me in the mastina persona, for which this is true.

It does not apply for players who I fucking know better than anyone else onsite.

I am one of THE two best players ONSITE at reading Yume--and the other is in the Past Present Future hydra and agrees with me. You can't invert that read, because it's not just mine and it's never fucking wrong ever.
I am one of THE best players ONSITE at reading Nancy--I've NEVER gotten that read wrong in ANY of my past town games. Nancy was my top townread in those past games, if you blindly followed the LLD tell you'd have been wrong in every. single. one. of them. Because she was town and I fucking KNEW she was town. (Except her scumgames, when I knew she was scum.)
I have NEVER gotten my read wrong on Ydrasse, and ever since I learned of the night/day difference in his meta, I have NEVER gotten my read wrong on StD, either. If you blindly followed the LLD tell you'd have been wrong in every. fucking. game. I had them as my top townreads because I'm NOT wrong about them.

[Yume]

Do I expect her to change immediately? No.

Can she make a big long read wall with the claim in it? Yes.

Can she go from 8 long posts to 7 long posts? Yes.

It’s more that Bree/Mastina/the person speaking be cognizant of this. So she can get better at her own rate

And she should change herself to appease you why?

[MathBlade]

Do I expect her to change immediately? No.

Can she make a big long read wall with the claim in it? Yes.

Can she go from 8 long posts to 7 long posts? Yes.

It’s more that Bree/Mastina/the person speaking be cognizant of this. So she can get better at her own rate

And she should change herself to appease you why?

Because if she is town she’s actively hurting her games. I am not the first person to mention it this game. I am just being a bit more direct.

[Scarfmanship]

I don't care if RR's doctor ability cult fakeclaim. If I'm solar cult, I'm yeeting RR into the sun on the first noon phase no matter what. Furthermore, this is another instance of suggesting things that could be possible versus things that are likely.

Mafia suggests possible narratives. Town deduces likely outcomes.

Also anyone who doesn't like my style of posting, I claim the same defense as mastina and if you don't like me I'm not going to change myself to appease you

[Bunnyonce]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

She is.

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim. I believe that she is on E-1 right now. If she does not claim by then, I am hammering.

This cannot go on for another 10 days.

~Greeting

[mastina]

Like all this is just bluster and AtE which you have done as town and scum as I already filled out your checklist.

Yeah and you did so in a way literally every player called disingenuous as fuck. Even T-Bone called you out on it.

So no, you really didn't.

The rule of the flowchart at its core is,
"mastina can do anything as scum, and has done everything as scum at least once--but the presence of her having done something once as scum does not make the presence of that thing scum, it is only if it is

consistently

present that it is scum".

You violated that by nitpicking and tracking down the exceptions to the rule. The single scumgame where I did The Thing, ignoring literally every. single. other. scumgame, where I didn'd do That Thing.

And similarly so for the town half.

Literally every player who engaged you with you having filled out the flowchart called you out on your bullshit. Literally. Every. Single. Player. They're not all scum, so that tells you that there are town players who think you were disingenuous in when you did. Because you WERE.

So no. You didn't fill it out. Not really.

Yes, I

can

AtE as scum.
Yes, I

have

AtE'd as scum.
Those are both objectively true.

But 95+% of my AtE has come from me as town, because surprise surprise.
Turns out that as scum I don't really give a fuck most of the time and can't even pretend to most of the time.

There's a reason "being logical, calm, cool, collected" was the hugest of huge scumastina tells for the longest time.
I've since tried to channel that into my towngame because I

like

those traits, I think they are good traits for town players to have, and I feel like when I have those traits I am at the top of my towngame (so my scumgame having them made my scumgame be a better towngame than my actual towngame).

But while I try to channel them into my towngame, I've never fully succeeded, there's a lot more...passion, behind my presence as town.

[mastina]

You’ve given your reads.

Not good enough I haven't. Your last post quoting them proved that where you had entirely wrong ideas about my stances/reads in the game--so like. I know there are players who don't know what my reads/reasons

actually

are, and I'm not finished until I do.

[MathBlade]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

She is.

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim. I believe that she is on E-1 right now. If she does not claim by then, I am hammering.

This cannot go on for another 10 days.

~Greeting

UNVOTE:

Mastina is annoying me but I am reading what the system is saying.

As annoying as it is there’s no excuse for that.

[Scarfmanship]

Math, chill on the posting for a bit, maybe if you don't give her any more ammo to reply to she'll run out of content and be forced to claim.

[Yume]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

She is.

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim. I believe that she is on E-1 right now. If she does not claim by then, I am hammering.

This cannot go on for another 10 days.

~Greeting

She's at E2 now.

[MathBlade]

As it = the posting * not a misgendering sorry!

[Yume]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

She is.

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim. I believe that she is on E-1 right now. If she does not claim by then, I am hammering.

This cannot go on for another 10 days.

~Greeting

She's at E2 now.

E3, since Math unvoted too.

[Bunnyonce]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

She is.

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim. I believe that she is on E-1 right now. If she does not claim by then, I am hammering.

This cannot go on for another 10 days.

~Greeting

UNVOTE:

Mastina is annoying me but I am reading what the system is saying.

As annoying as it is there’s no excuse for that.

Well done, we're getting nowhere now. She will just go on posting about literally anything but her claim.

~Greeting

[mastina]

I find it entirely unlikely you push me for “having a similar role” then “forgot” part. That “forgotten” part would be on your flip anyway.

I've looked at my role PM a grand total of twice.

Once in the pregame.

The second time today.

I breadcrumbed off of what I remembered it to be (and remembered it half-wrong, so my breadcrumbs are also half-wrong).

I saw your breadcrumbs and thought they matched the role I remembered mine to be.

I didn't check my role PM tho because I was sure I knew it, and it wasn't like you had claimed your role at the time.

And when you did claim your role, it was a moot point since you're not an investigative role like I thought you were.

I only rechecked my role PM because of the RR claim and me, at work, remembering, "hey wait a sec...RR didn't claim either of The Things that I know my role PM had". And then when I rechecked, it turns out, my role PM didn't have both of The Things, it only had one.

I check my role PM whenever I feel I have reason to, never more, never less.

I didn't have reason to check my role PM when pushing you, because you never claimed the formatting of your role PM, and by the time you roleclaimed, it wasn't something important to focus on.

I did have reason to check my role PM after thinking about RR's claim, because RR's lack of formatting was something I found suspect due to them being at L-1 at the time.

[MathBlade]

Mastina

, are you planning to claim or not?

~Greeting

She is.

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim. I believe that she is on E-1 right now. If she does not claim by then, I am hammering.

This cannot go on for another 10 days.

~Greeting

UNVOTE:

Mastina is annoying me but I am reading what the system is saying.

As annoying as it is there’s no excuse for that.

Well done, we're getting nowhere now. She will just go on posting about literally anything but her claim.

~Greeting

Then she will be hammered from sheer annoyance. If she posts without claiming then everyone else will elim her. There’s a very very limited window of things that can be town Mastina and I am trying desperately to keep caring and not be tunnel me.