Cosmos Mafia (Dawn 1)

[Enchant]

LMAO YOU USE 2008 YEAR GAMES AS REAL VALUE IN THIS GAME.

[MegAzumarill]

VC 1.0.21



Mastina (6) T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, professotic, unwnd, Scarfmanship [E-3]


Scarfmanship (3) Past Present Future, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Mastina

Radical Rat (1) Ydrasse
Enchant (1) Yume
Bunnyonce (1) Enchant
professotic (1) MMR,

Not Voting (4) Frozen Angel, Bunnyonce, Furtiveglance, Mathblade,

With 17 Alive it takes 9 to Eliminate
Deadline: 1 Day*

Deadline is frozen for replacements.

[mastina]

I thought I had specified, but my ability works during Noon, which is part of the reason I assumed burning to be Solar's thing.

Okay so I think Radical Rat IS scum here because my role is also done on noon but the modifiers I have on mine, I would expect them to have on theirs, as well. Well, not all of my modifiers. But there's two modifiers in MY acts-on-noon claim, that I would expect from RR's claim if theirs was true.

I get it, RR's a protective and I'm an investigative--but while the "you'll be informed if this happens" half RR wouldn't have, and one of the player restrictions RR wouldn't have (as that restriction is investigative-specific), there are TWO clauses to RR's claim that they don't have which I would expect to be universal or near-universal.

[Yume]

LIKE, WHY DO YOU INSIST ON POSTING WHEN MASTINA ASKED YOU NOT TO UNTIL SHE IS DONE? IF YOU WERE IN DANGER OF BEING FORCE-REPLACED, SURE, BUT NONE OF YOU ARE! SO WAIT A COUPLE OF HOURS, GEEZ! GO TAKE A WALK OR SOMETHING!!!

[mastina]

You still calling me scum after i could hammer you at E-1 while you say "I always hammer people as any alignment and won't because RR and Enchant is team" is funny.

No, no! Not scum!

Backup scum!

If any of my scumreads are wrong I'd think you're scum by PoE and you being the player I have the least reason to townread that could plausibly be scum.

But I currently think that you're town; your posting right now

looks

town.

[mastina]

I don't really want to engage with it, to be honest. I get the feeling others don't either, which is why there isn't much feedback.

(For the record I think this is a scum perspective as well but I don't have the energy to delve into it right now.)

[Yume]

LMAO YOU USE 2008 YEAR GAMES AS REAL VALUE IN THIS GAME.

YOU KNOW WHAT? FINE!!! KEEP MASTINA FROM CLAIMING FOR ALL I CARE! MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME! YOU ARE THE ONES WHO WANT HER TO CLAIM, SO BY ALL MEANS, KEEP PREVENTING YOURSELVES FROM GETTING WHAT YOU WANT!

[Enchant]

LIKE, WHY DO YOU INSIST ON POSTING WHEN MASTINA ASKED YOU NOT TO UNTIL SHE IS DONE? IF YOU WERE IN DANGER OF BEING FORCE-REPLACED, SURE, BUT NONE OF YOU ARE! SO WAIT A COUPLE OF HOURS, GEEZ! GO TAKE A WALK OR SOMETHING!!!

Personal Mastina Shitposting Ground.


Ok go play this game without me.

[Enchant]

LMAO YOU USE 2008 YEAR GAMES AS REAL VALUE IN THIS GAME.

YOU KNOW WHAT? FINE!!! KEEP MASTINA FROM CLAIMING FOR ALL I CARE! MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO ME!

YOU ARE THE ONES WHO WANT HER TO CLAIM

, SO BY ALL MEANS, KEEP PREVENTING YOURSELVES FROM GETTING WHAT YOU WANT!

It's Mastina insist her PR reveal RR as liar, but goes for PAGES OF POSTS instead of telling "so uh i am NAME ROLE and RR looks scummy with my existance".

[mastina]

Yeah I’m likely the original solve I had.
Mastina/Bunny/PPF
Unwnd/FA/Scarf, RR or MMR

It should perhaps tell you something about your solve that the only players in it I won't vote are PPF and MMR.

[Scarfmanship]

What if the real game advancing content was outside all along?

[mastina]

It's Mastina insist her PR reveal RR as liar, but goes for PAGES OF POSTS instead of telling "so uh i am NAME ROLE and RR looks scummy with my existance".

Actually it's not my role's name, it's my role's descriptors/limitations--the part directly above the wincon but otherwise at the bottom of the PM. That area.

[Enchant]

Fine. Continue on. I give you space.

[mastina]

I don't agree, I think it's a town claim. I know this game is slightly bastard but the balance of power between solar/lunar would seem heavily skewed in lunar's favor. If I'm solar here and the other faction can meddle with my kill power indirectly I'd be pretty pissed.

What makes the balance between solar/lunar tipped in lunar's favor without RR?

Nothing in the setup suggests that.

If anything, a doctor that shuts down the solar scumteam's power,
Tips the balance INTO being lunar's favor.

You need RR's claim to be either scum or a fakeclaim in order for the scales to be even.

[mastina]

If mastina is so obvtown then why does she seem like an island. Nobody is directly interacting with her

If I were so obvscum then why do I seem like an island? Nobody was directly interacting with me. That ain't a scum trait, it's a town trait.

[Scarfmanship]

FWIW i am informed, the lunar cult kills by mooning people (displaying one's buttocks)

[Bunnyonce]

Okay, I am giving her an hour to finish posting her thoughts and claim.

Doesn't work that way.

I finish in as much time as it fucking takes me to finish, so long as it's done on this day.

If I go to bed without finishing, sure. You can hammer.

But three hours, five hours, seven hours--however long it takes, is how long it takes.

My thoughts are mine, not yours. YOU do not get to set a deadline on when I have spoken my thoughts to my satisfaction. Only I get that. So it's ME who gets to say when I have finished and it is then I will claim--not a moment sooner.

You're wrong, but you're in luck, because some players in this game seem to be enjoying this never-ending madness, and they are enabling this behavior by dismantling your wagon. If, by some miracle, your wagon is back to E-1, I am hammering you Not_Mafia style and ending this charade. You have been asked to claim repeatedly by many players. If you're a town PR who refused to claim out of plain stubbornness the miselimination will be on you, and I will not be feeling any guilt for voting you out.

I think you're not making these long posts with the claimed intention of getting town to know your legacy better, but either to wear everyone down, mislead everyone or just for yourself.

~Greeting

[mastina]

If you're a town PR who refused to claim out of plain stubbornness the miselimination will be on you, and I will not be feeling any guilt for voting you out.

I think you're not making these long posts with the claimed intention of getting town to know your legacy better, but either to wear everyone down, mislead everyone or just for yourself.

VOTE: Bunnyonce

Yeah this is scum.

This betrays a scum mindset. "just for yourself" would, explicitly, be town.
"wear everyone down" would be nai.
The only of these which would be scum is "mislead everyone", but I am gradually proving that to not be true by following through on it, so like: the proof it's not is right there.

So admitting that it comes from a spot of town and trying to shift the blame on it to me when there's no reason to rush, is scum.

[unwnd]

I cut down on a few things that I felt were sorta not directed to me.

Mastina:

"You were trying to look town without actually being town. (I believe the buzzword for this the kids use these days is LAMIST.) "

What about the scenario in which I'm just town and the reason I look town is because of it? You acknowledge that LAMIST is a buzzword so I don't know what else to say to this.

Mastina:

"For the record, I think that unwnd has a pretty good chance of being scum here. (See also 2320 + 2319.)

The reasoning is either lazy-town or scum, but the reason I think scum over lazy town is, explicitly, because I don't believe that unwnd even as a replacement takes the lazy-town route."

I gave you a rebuttal in that I don't feel like I'm being lazy. In a lot of ways, I would even say that I am falling into a bad habit of caring too much. I could've just sat on my hands and gave some half-baked reason without trying to build rapport with others. This has been my motive and even sometimes my prolonged questioning makes me think 'why the hell am I doing this.' I'd even go so far to say at this rate, being called lazy offends me.

Mastina:

"And the reason why 2277 is so scum is specifically BECAUSE of how lazy it is. It is an "easy" stance to take, that has zero consequences to it."

That is reductive to what I've been saying. I have other posts that have been hinting to why I feel the way I do. I have been trying to pay attention to what you're saying so the least you can do is at least give them a look and then decide if 'unwnd is being lazy scum and making a zero consequence read' fits.

Mastina:

"Tell me: what consequences are there to saying "eliminating mastina moves the gamestate forward"?
What is the downside of someone saying that?
It is something they can defend as "objectively true", as a genuine belief. It is something that many players have stated. It is something that has been repeated multiple times by multiple people."

My opinion is a bit more nuanced than that. I would prefer if you focused on what I've explicitly said instead of assuming. The issue with assumptions like this (and the reason I am so keen on directly interacting with people) is that it takes away from the personable aspect of every player. Is this something not important to you? You are a very personable player and that shows in each of your posts, however, I cannot simply believe that as self-aware as you are, you would not use this to your advantage as scum. This is a

huge

thing for me and no amount of 'my meta is this and this and this' really does anything for me. Confirmation bias aside, I just read what your reads are and why you have them and I feel very cold about it. Maybe this can warm each other up, because I am a diplomatic person in nature and even when I am saying to eliminate someone, I am willing to listen to them. Heart too big.

Mastina:

"It's lazy, in a scum-indicative way, specifically because unwnd is not a lazy town player. To say that my death helps the gamestate without an attempt to sort my alignment in good faith (engaging with RR who scumread me is not engaging in good faith btw), is in no way shape or form something that carries any negative repercussions.

There's no need to backtrack after my elimination. There's no need to take a stance that needs defending. There's no need to take a stance controversial. It is something that allows for a vote that anyone can cast. It is not, innately, inherently, a scum perspective, but regardless of alignment it is a lazy take. I'll reiterate this as well: "

This is me trying to sort your alignment. Again-- my opinion is not as simple as 'it helps the gamestate'. I have reasons to scumread you and we can start there. Speaking hypothetical though, how does it not have negative repercussions? I feel strongly about you being scum, and if I had some lazy devil-may-care takes I would be spitting them out just to get by. I really think you're scum here. Prove me wrong.

Mastina:

"You do not have a reason for scumreading me, unwnd. You have a reason for voting me--but it lacks the nuances and fleshed out nature of MathBlade, T-Bone, and professotic. (There's a damn good reason those are the only three consistently voting me that I have a townread on.)"

Can you tell me what makes my vote uh, not nuanced? Is it becuse I replaced into a afk slot in a gamestate limbo and you think I'm just tacking on another vote to your wagon? There's more going on than that, and again it offends me.

Mastina:

"Your attitude/approach this game is, explicitly, lazy and uncreative."

My defense in summary is that I see a clear directive. I have been pushing at this throughout the time I've been here and I will continue to do so. That in itself is a risk I'm willing to take. I don't really know how to respond how I'm being unrcreative or what it exactly means.

Mastina:

"You have no unique/original takes as a replacement in this game."
You have added nothing of note.
"his is again a bit too personal for me.
You have avoided taking stronger stances on most players.
You have avoided giving reasons for your reads on most players.
You have been giving the bare minimum, pretending to say a lot yet saying very little.

Which, yes, I know, ironic for me to be accusing you of it given my own issues.

But while it may be ironic and technically hypocritical--YOU do not have the same tendencies/history/style/justifications/etc. that I do

I am still doing a lot. I'm saying a lot which could be said with far less, but it'd be disingenous as fuck to say I've said very little."

I feel like reading all of this is like some sort of great expectation put onto me. I don't know exactly how it leads though. I don't want to get into it honestly because I feel it would only be self-serving. You are free to believe I am not making unique/strong stances/etc. but I

will

defend myself in regards to me not giving reasons for why I think the way I do.

For the record, I think in terms of what you're

saying

has a high volume but what you're

doing

is very little. Something I have to ask myself when I read your posts is 'what does this post mean and why did mastina write it? How is this helping her scumhunt' This is a fundamental perspective but one I am failing to see, because the quick and short way to explain it is that your posts are mostly filler. This is why I wanted to have an audience with you because if your filler is just a cause of a personal attribution that you are intensely feeling that is muddying how you

really

feel, then I want to hear it. Like I said though, what you are bringing to me right now I scumread.

Mastina:

"But for you, not so much. You are genuinely using a lot of words that form empty reasonless stances. You're accusing me of something you yourself are guilty of. If you think it's scum for me, then what does that say of YOU? "

I don't know. What does it say of me. I am dying to find out.

[Yume]

Please ignore the new posts, mastina, for your sanity, and mine.

[Bunnyonce]

If you're a town PR who refused to claim out of plain stubbornness the miselimination will be on you, and I will not be feeling any guilt for voting you out.

I think you're not making these long posts with the claimed intention of getting town to know your legacy better, but either to wear everyone down, mislead everyone or just for yourself.

VOTE: Bunnyonce

Yeah this is scum.

This betrays a scum mindset. "just for yourself" would, explicitly, be town.
"wear everyone down" would be nai.
The only of these which would be scum is "mislead everyone", but I am gradually proving that to not be true by following through on it, so like: the proof it's not is right there.

So admitting that it comes from a spot of town and trying to shift the blame on it to me when there's no reason to rush, is scum.

Sorry for not wanting to wait another 5-7 business days for you to crumb the reveal of something that could just be said in one sentence. I uphold what I had said before.

~Greeting

[mastina]

Mastina is notorious for having D1 reads backwards as town then eventually fixing it.
Several players have a flip Mastina’s reads rule.
(Granted I think this is toxic AF and don’t condone it)

It is in fact toxic and often, quite wrong. It's not without merit altogether, and is situationally quite justified.

By sheer coincidence, most games with LLD are games where it would apply--not games where it wouldn't.

The conditions for it to apply are:
-I am not intimately familiar with the players in question,
-I am

wrongly

familiar with the players in question (belief that I am intimately familiar with them, but being wildly off-base),
-It is earlier into the game,
-I am fully embracing the mastina ideals of "every scum player will do some town things and every town player will do some scum things, so discard the things which disagree with my read barring extreme circumstances causing a reevaluation",
-I am a role that I'm not really fond of in that particular game, and I don't have a plan,
-I am unfamiliar with the interactions between characters and their histories together (or am wrong about these things).

During those times (and by sheer coincidence, basically every LLD game has most or all of these apply), the inversion has merit because if I have a poor base foundation and do not budge from that poor foundation until much later in the game, the earlier list is going to be fairly off the mark.

However, even when fairly off the mark, it's never fully wrong. I don't get 4/4 of my top townreads be scum; I get 1/4 of my top townreads be scum, and they can be any one of those top four.
I don't get 6/6 of my scumreads wrong; I get 3-5 of my scumreads be wrong. My scumreads are a LOT easier to get wrong than my townreads (less scum in the game, natch!), so there's more wrongness to be had, but even at my most wrong I am usually not entirely wrong.

Which is why you are correct, it is not a good mindset. It has some

validity

, but only when applied

properly

.

And it's not applicable this game. (Okay I admit, when outside of mastina mode DDS and Ydrasse aren't 100% town. They're ~92.5-97.5% town, not 100%. But inside mastina mode that's like 200% town. And Yume/PPF are NEVER scum here, EVER.)

My reads right now have fairly good base:

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (comfortable moving them up here)} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{MathBlade}

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR, T-Bone}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance, Enchant, professotic (may be up there with MB, not quite sure)}


??? (could be PoE scum, but hard to lock down for sure)
{Maid Cafe}

{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship}

REASONABLE CHANCE OF SCUM:
{Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Radja/unwnd}

{Radical Rat, Frozen Angel}

This Rat wagon is soooo bad.

I'm not gonna claim that it's scum free, because obviously, it's not.

But it's still a town-driven wagon.

Radical Rat(8) Mastina, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow, Yume, furtiveglance, Past Present Future, Bunnyonce, Ydrasse, Scarfmanship [E-1!]

I'm town.

Dingle Dangle Scarecrow is town. Period. This is Klick as town.

Yume is town. Period. This is unnegotiable. She is locktown of locktown, never scum here ever.

Past Present Future is town. Period. This is all three being town. Never scum ever, locktown of locktown.

Ydrasse is town. Save the Dragons was in his town meta and Ydrasse has continued to show herself to be town since replacing in.

So where are the sum?

The only

options

(not guarantees, just OPTIONS) are {furtiveglance, Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship}.

That's a MAXIMUM of three scum,

if

you believe that all three are scum.

For every name you see as town in those three, the number of possible scum on the wagon falls.

Suffice to say: no, not scumdriven. It's at least 5/8 town.

In contrast:

Mastina (7) T-Bone, Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, professotic, Mathblade, unwnd, Enchant

I believe T-Bone, professotic, and MathBlade to be town in here.

But only those 3.

There's four possible scum on the mastina wagon.
{Radical Rat, Maid Cafe, unwnd, Enchant}.

Enchant's hop-on looks like scum saving a scumbuddy.
unwnd's replace-in radiates scum.
And Maid Cafe has been looking more and more scum.

Are all four scum?

Not unless I'm a god gamer scumhunter. (I am not a god gamer scumhunter.)

But are all four town?

Fuck no! There's guaranteed scum in there.

I would say 2-3 of RR's scumteam on mastina wagon (actually this is mandatory--even if FA is a scumbuddy, then unless MMR is the third or RR had a bussing scumbuddy, there is a minimum of two RR-scumteam on the wagon);
~0-2 of opposite scumteam on the RR wagon.

(FA scum off the wagon so I don't think it's all scum on both.)

If I had to guess,
{Radical Rat, Enchant, unwnd} (so yes all 3 on me) as one scumteam;
{Frozen Angel, Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship} as the other.

(Okay so it's Radical Rat + 2/3 of {Enchant, unwnd, Maid Cafe} for one scumteam, actually. I just think Enchant scumtold, and that unwnd fits better as an RR scumbuddy.

It's Frozen Angel + 2/3 of {Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship, remainder-from-the-above} for the other. Thinking about it more, I somewhat doubt that Bunnyonce and Scarfmanship are scum together so I think my revised second scumteam is Frozen Angel + Maid Cafe + 1/2 of {Bunnyonce, Scarfmanship}.)

These are

slightly

out of date, but between the three you get a good base, so to update them:

LOCKTOWN:
{Past Present Future, Save The Dragons, Yume, Dingle Dangle Scarecrow (comfortable moving them up here), MathBlade} (most locktown of locktown)
TOWN:
{professotic, T-Bone}

VIBED TOWN:
{MMR}

LEAN TOWN:
{furtiveglance} (both tiers of lean town apt, just furtive's more town than Enchant)

{Enchant} (both tiers of lean town apt, just Enchant has a higher scum equity imo)



PoE scum? (hard to lock down for sure)
{Maid Cafe}

REASONABLE CHANCE OF SCUM:
{Child of Fairies/Scarfmanship, Bunnyonce}

SCUM:
{Radja/unwnd, Radical Rat, Frozen Angel}

The locktown here, I don't think I'm ever wrong on. I've explained all but MathBlade up there extensively but MathBlade being town I think has become clear enough that I don't need to.
T-Bone, basically he's the only player in this game to have given incredibly nuanced thoughts on me with a hard consistent push on me in a way insanely town and his thought process on every player he talks about feels town, everything he does looks town.

professotic, the Professor half in particular looks town, their hydra dissonance looks town, and I can

see

the town from tictac.

I don't think I'm wrong on any of the above.

{MMR, furtiveglance, Enchant} all

could

be scum, but MMR feels town from all three heads and their interactions. I wouldn't touch them until everyone below on my list is flipped.

{furtiveglance} I've explained, basically furtive isn't the same furtive as Datisi's Cafe. It's a weak townread, could be wrong, but his thoughts look town enough for now.
Enchant is a wavering read but his current look is a good one.

Maid Cafe is being replaced but they are where Radja was--not really looking town in any way, when I have a lot of townreads that are solid.

Scarfmanship and Bunnyonce both look like scum.

unwnd is scum with Radical Rat.

Frozen Angel is in her scum meta.

I've explained all the scumreads except for Maid Cafe fairly extensively (okay maybe I should do more on Scarfmanship/Bunnyonce? But I don't think I really need to, scumreads on them aren't exactly hot takes, so like--after I'm gone y'all probably lim them anyway and thus, not as important), so from there we get pairings.

{unwnd, Radical Rat} needs a third.
My earlier notes say not-FA but yes-Bunnyonce.

My earlier notes say Maid Cafe is not partnered with Radical Rat, so not them.

I realize that both Bunnyonce and Scarfmanship were part of the L-1 wagon on RR.
So I realize that at least one thing I would normally assume is wrong.
A townread wrong;
Earlier interactions wrong;
Voting not clearing them from being partnered.

One of those three has to be true, because there's no scumteam possible for all of them. (Well, I

guess

teams of two? So make that four assumptions.)

So either there's a townread wrong (for instance, Enchant scum, but I currently lean against it),
Or the early interactions were wrong (one of FA/Maid Cafe scum with RR/unwnd),
Or the voting of RR was not clearing.

I lean the third. It could be Bunnyonce (50-50 there on yeah-def-partners and wait-definitely-not), but actually, scarfmanship fits quite well. The vote was reasonless, and Scarfmanship's RR stance throughout iso looks highly partnery.

So my current scumteam guesses would be,
{Radical Rat, unwnd, Scarfmanship}
{Frozen Angel, Maid Cafe, Bunnyonce}

I admit I've not done as much research as I'd like but I'm trying to get to claiming so I'll have to accept this as a rush job.
It's reads + teams, which is 90% where I want to be. (I do have a few extra thoughts to give tho.)

[mastina]

(For the record I can't engage 2793 and finish catchup. Can only do one of the two. Catchup better.)

[mastina]

Starting tomorrow let's start killing RR voters.

I quite like this as the third in RR/unwnd for this, especially since it feels like it was meant for a scum PT--we're

already

killing an RR voter today. (Me.)

So if we're killing RR voters already, where's the 'start' involved? It's already happening.

Scum nightkills, on the other hand...

(The RR voters would be a threat to RR on a scumteam so if Scarfmanship is scum with RR as I suspect...)

[T-Bone]

IN THESE HARD TIMES WHERE ONE USES OUTDATE META READS AND ANOTHER JUST GOES TO SAY "MASTINA IS INACCURATE AT DAY 1!!!!!!!" WHEN IT'S DAY 1 AND NO BASED INFO AVALIABLE, IT'S FUCKING MY TIME TO BE HERO THIS TOWN NEEDS, BUT DIDN'T DESERVE.

SHEEP ME FOOLS.

VOTE: BUNNYONCE

Have I ever told you that you're secretly my favorite player?