Cosmos Mafia (Dawn 1)

[MathBlade]

Oh and I need the people nuthugging mastina to clarify their read because you're accountable too

I'm AFK based on how cooperative people are

Please don’t use genital based terms. Thanks.

I acknowledge this, won't happen again

I also apologise but it was satirical when I used it so I get a reduced sentence.

Please move on. Apologies accepted

[Yume]

Well, when someone is targeted by scum, that generally means they're town, does it not?

Note that I said 'generally'.

Why would scum target her?

To kill her? She's one of the few players that can read others well, so scum would want to be rid of her.

Uhm let’s not rehash D1 please. I disagree and so do other players.

Instead let’s ask why Professor is gone and elim in professors scumreads

You were there in SU2 right? The game where she was right about RR being scum? Want me to link it and other games where she was right about who scum are?

Let’s really not do this.

I can link to games she was really bad.

She’s swingy and that’s okay.

Oh, sure, just deflect.

[Yume]

In fact, why don't you all deflect whenever someone calls you out on being wrong?

[MathBlade]

In fact, why don't you all deflect whenever someone calls you out on being wrong?

That’s not deflecting?

I accept your premise Mastina was right on her reads in some games.
I also say that in other games she was horribly wrong.

I am meeting you where you are and adding where I am.

[unwnd]

I'm fine with playing along, but I'm not letting her pick the elim

Can I pick?

I don't want anyone to necessarily pick

But feel free to offer up some suggestions?

I am not making this day 'let's kill mastina', I am saying 'please hold mastina

accountable

'

And she will be. Just have a little faith please.

You’ll see given time how mine links with hers.

Which even if she’s scum she can’t lie.

If she gives a Dusk on a Solar scum she’s outed scum or vice versa.

So then it’s likely she gives the check correctly.

I'm bad at being AFK

All I want is people to not dismiss what happened yesterday. I mean that in regards to whom died and why. When you look back at Bunny's death, it was mostly mastina's words being propeled for that elimination. Yet nobody is saying a thing nor being responsible for that type of enabling. Does that make sense?

[Yume]

This is why I hate mafia in general. People act like their opinion is always right even when it's not.

[mastina]

We are in the bad timeline where you didn't eject mastina despite the fact she has the most stake in the game

I mean--which alignment has more stake in a game?

(It's town, scum don't give a fuck.)

I hold her accountable for her actions

Oh that's fair, but there's a difference between accountability and discrediting.

Yes, I was wrong on Bunnyonce, but Bunnyonce was one of the names in my PoE, when there were more names in the PoE than there were scum. We eliminated one of the town in the PoE, but that is not reason to throw out the entire PoE when the PoE is still solid.

Unless you want to try and argue my townreads are wrong, but like: they aren't. Just aren't.

I've been quite clear the entire game: my TOWNREADS are strong.
My scumreads are not.

Accountability is huge for a wrong townread--I deserve to be ignored for the entirety of the game if I get so much as a single one of

those

reads wrong.
Accountability is small for a wrong scumread--I have made it explicit the entire time that my scumreads are mostly PoE. I've

reasons

for scumreading the slots I am, but the biggest reason has always been "they're not town enough to be outside of the PoE".

Trying to pretend a wrong scumread equals huge accountability is disingenuous as fuck.

[unwnd]

Why don't you care that people were just parroting your logic? Why aren't you considering that someone could be (if you are town) manipulating you?

[unwnd]

If I am town here and in your shoes and I eject my scumread

I'm gonna

immediately

start wondering who is just trying to win me over with favors

I am also gonna go 'ok well fuck' but why do you not care about sequence of events

[MathBlade]

I'm fine with playing along, but I'm not letting her pick the elim

Can I pick?

I don't want anyone to necessarily pick

But feel free to offer up some suggestions?

I am not making this day 'let's kill mastina', I am saying 'please hold mastina

accountable

'

And she will be. Just have a little faith please.

You’ll see given time how mine links with hers.

Which even if she’s scum she can’t lie.

If she gives a Dusk on a Solar scum she’s outed scum or vice versa.

So then it’s likely she gives the check correctly.

I'm bad at being AFK

All I want is people to not dismiss what happened yesterday. I mean that in regards to whom died and why. When you look back at Bunny's death, it was mostly mastina's words being propeled for that elimination. Yet nobody is saying a thing nor being responsible for that type of enabling. Does that make sense?

It does.

And I don’t forget Mastina pinging me earlier.

She could have quite easily been one of the scum team that I thought wanted me dead.

It’s a very fine balance.

Think for a moment: my death vanillizes an entire scum team yesterday (and possibly going forward).

I think she’s town because of her claim and how it interacts.

She will be held accountable whatever her alignment.

[mastina]

Would anyone like to tell me why Bunnyonce was able to be pushed through but conveniently mastina was able to survive

Quite simple.
Bunnyonce was a deadline wagon made at the last minute, when we needed to eliminate

someone

.
They were in the PoE and they could safely be eliminated.

I was a game-long wagon pushed largely by scum, when there are multiple slots who know I am town by both claim and play. I am also very very very vocal when town which makes it a damn hard job to eliminate me when I am town. Everyone involved in pushing me--

especially

those claiming to be familiar with me--are held accountable for being wrong about me.

I am someone who the scum tend to

think

they can push, and they get close, but then something comes up that they don't expect and they get caught unprepared for the flip of the switch where suddenly, the town find town and the scum are put on the ropes.

The PoE is a

threat

to scum.

If it wasn't, then professotic wouldn't be dead right now. professotic was outside of the PoE, so their death means the scum know that the PoE is a threat.

[mastina]

There wasn't a lot of serious discussion in my opinion on Mathblade being scum so I don't think those same associatives with the solar team exists, but if someone thinks otherwise I'm open to that data.

I mean technically speaking, I hard hard HARD pushed MathBlade as scum, and I act during the noon phase, so if I were scum it's pretty damn definitely Solar Cult. (Especially since my breadcrumbs were light-related because I thought my role was a Town Sun, which it isn't confirmed as.)

I never actually

voted

him and I hard-pivoted to him being town later in the game, but like, objectively speaking: there WAS a person pushing MathBlade as scum, it's just that I know for a fact she was town doing so.

[unwnd]

Inside of wagon I would vote

(Enchant, T-Bone, and (redacted)]

Outside of wagon I would only vote DDS or MMR

Maid cafe had MariaR in it and looking at her posts I believe she was town. I don't like leading with meta but my read on Maria is typically p good (but gets garbled the longer she stays alive)

[unwnd]

T-Bone has been an oasis for me but I think he plays in the sort of way where he doesn't necessarily stress in the same way town has to

This read doesn't have much depth, so it's not priority

MMR/DDS both fundamentally look like slanker wolves, is a good start there if you wanna play

off the wagon

[MathBlade]

Would anyone like to tell me why Bunnyonce was able to be pushed through but conveniently mastina was able to survive

Quite simple.
Bunnyonce was a deadline wagon made at the last minute, when we needed to eliminate

someone

.
They were in the PoE and they could safely be eliminated.

I was a game-long wagon pushed largely by scum, when there are multiple slots who know I am town by both claim and play. I am also very very very vocal when town which makes it a damn hard job to eliminate me when I am town. Everyone involved in pushing me--

especially

those claiming to be familiar with me--are held accountable for being wrong about me.

I am someone who the scum tend to

think

they can push, and they get close, but then something comes up that they don't expect and they get caught unprepared for the flip of the switch where suddenly, the town find town and the scum are put on the ropes.

The PoE is a

threat

to scum.

If it wasn't, then professotic wouldn't be dead right now. professotic was outside of the PoE, so their death means the scum know that the PoE is a threat.

I agree with most of this.

I disagree with the last few sentences. I don’t think those follow from the first few.

Scum could have chosen
A> Mastina and MathBlade make too much noise
B> Professor is more of a threat than Mastina.
C> Roleblocking/unable to act

I agree with the spirit but find the conclusion wrong.

[mastina]

Delusional

What makes it so?

My townreads here are not wrong.
My scumreads here explicitly can be.

These are things I have said the entire game.

That's not delusion; that's a lack thereof.

Every name I have locked as town has a damn good reason to be town. Those reads aren't delusional.

Every name I have in my PoE has reasons to be scum, but much much weaker, with the main being "they're not town enough to be out of the PoE".

Yes, there was a lot of shit to get to this point.
Yes, there is still a chance to hit town in the PoE because the PoE is larger than the number of scum in the game.

But neither of those invalidate the strength of the townreads. Given "innocent until proven guilty", the burden of showing why my townreads could be scum is on the accuser. But I like my reasons for townreading them more than any reasons for scumreading them.

Mostly.

I

can

be swayed--Scarfmanship went back into the PoE you may note, while being out of it at the end of yesterday. I was convinced Scarfmanship is less town than I gave credit for yesterday.

But good luck convincing me someone like MathBlade or Dingle Dangle Scarecrow or Yume or Past Present Future are scum, when all of them are just...town. (Enchant/T-Bone are also hard-sells because of both townslipping and individually being town by play. Townie as fuck in T-Bone's case.)

Those reads are that solid for

damn

good reason.
And those reasons aren't delusion.
They're experience combined with their play throughout the game.

[unwnd]

I have officially done more in 10-15 posts than half of this game has just parroting top posters

I'm gonna celebrate by regretting my life choices and staring longingly outside the window

[mastina]

When you look back at Bunny's death, it was mostly mastina's words being propeled for that elimination. Yet nobody is saying a thing nor being responsible for that type of enabling. Does that make sense?

If being shallow-level it would be. But if you want to present the narrative that I was hard-pushing Bunnyonce as some form of guaranteed scum that'd be disingenuous as fuck.

I thought they were scum, and they were in the PoE, and I was wrong, but my scumread on them was never 100% and I was quite vocal about this. I didn't say Bunnyonce was the unambiguously best chance of landing a scum elimination guaranteed--I voted Bunnyonce because I didn't have any particularly better ideas and we were short on time. We needed to eliminate

someone

in the PoE. It was at deadline, and eliminating someone in the PoE was better than eliminating someone out of the PoE.

Was it the best elimination possible, no, that'd have been scum--but if you want to pretend that Bunnyonce flipping town made the elimination a bad one, it ain't

me

who is the delusional one.
It wasn't a

great

elimination, but nobody voting there thought it was a great one.
It was an

okay

elimination, explicitly a last-minute compromise wagon we could all get around.

We didn't have any better options, not really.

[mastina]

Why don't you care that people were just parroting your logic? Why aren't you considering that someone could be (if you are town) manipulating you?

Because I know the players in question mostly and know they aren't scum. They aren't able to manipulate their metas to fool me specifically. Even if they tried (they wouldn't), they'd fail.

It doesn't matter who in my locktown did what--they are locktown for damn fucking good reasons.

If you want to argue that names outside my locktown parroted my logic tho: sure, they could be scum doing that.
But in a multiball game, I'm less concerned about that. (Wasn't that the whole reason people insisted on pushing me yesterday in spite of acknowledging that there were scum pushing for my elimination? "Oh I know there's going to be scum pushing mastina, but it's multiball, so I'm not as concerned about it." Well it ain't a one-way street, yaknow.)

The PoE has only one failure condition, and that's

if

the scum have a recruitment mechanic (turning previously town players to not town), but lacking that, the scum can only be inside the PoE. (On the note of the recruitment, the "cannot be solar/lunar" involved makes me think otherwise, especially the vanillaized cult part. That implies the cults have power roles, plural, which indicate a lack of recruitment and a size of three.)

[mastina]

If I am town here and in your shoes and I eject my scumread
I'm gonna

immediately

start wondering who is just trying to win me over with favors

Fortunately for the game, I am not you and I am not going to cave to needless paranoia.

II am also gonna go 'ok well fuck' but why do you not care about sequence of events

The sequence of events can show who is scum in the PoE.

The sequence of events doesn't damn any of the names outside of the PoE because all of them have reasons to be town stronger than any possible reason to be scum from the sequence of events.

So yes--I don't care about the sequence of events in regards to my townreads. My reasons for those townreads are not things that "well this sequence

could

indicate X Y Z" can overcome.

It's possibilities versus probabilities.

The sequence of events gives

possible

reasons for slots to be scum.

But my reasons for my townreads are OVERWHELMINGLY

probable

in being correct, to the point of virtually being impossible-to-be-wrong.

[T-Bone]

This is why I hate mafia in general. People act like their opinion is always right even when it's not.

You're literally doing that LOL all game, every single post

[T-Bone]

Think for a moment: my death vanillizes an entire scum team yesterday (and possibly going forward).

You were never in danger what do you even mean???

[T-Bone]

Granted DDS never got run up either, basically Scarf had their vote parked all day. I still feel like more people talked about DDS as a possibility than Math. There are a lot of posts to go through.

Yeah it's just a game. I think this flips town as well. I've tried to create counter wagons but we all seem to disagree on who, and I think there are more pushers than defenders of mastina anyway.

Actually a lot of people agree on DDS but no one wants to vote there for some mysterious reason. Maybe they are being influenced by a spectral wolf.

DDS seems to be tertiary for a lot of people. Probably because they are a slot with low thread presence. It would take someone brave enough to start that conversation though.

I noted it as far back as this post.

[T-Bone]

LMFAO only Mastina defended them/called them town. I checked the 30 pages from that post I just quoted. Scarf, Furtive, Math, and myself all at one point during that time called DDS scum, and then Titus asked a few people on their opinions on DDS but whomever was asked never responded. I guess we do not have the cool data points I thought we did SIGH

[Toogeloo]

Hey. I replaced Maid Cafe. Game was in limbo until the slot was replaced, so I agreed to help out.

I am not reading Day 1. I am perfectly willing to sheep my vote today if someone is conftown.