Mini 2284: The Thing Anonymous [Day 2]

[Fuchs~]

I'm a jailkeeper

They way that Clark has gone existing in thread while close to elimination feels more likely to be scum then a town PR I think.

But on the other hand, looking at the Clark wiki, jailkeeper seems very thematically appropriate while jailkeeper seeming to be an unlikely role for scum to get.

Gonna think on it

Strongly agree with the first point, why do you think it's unlikely for scum to have this role?

Based on the mechanics of the game, I find it doubtful we have a vigilante. And therefore, there would be no mechanical advantage for scum to have a jailkeeper instead of a roleblocker -- unless peta put it in there just for the fake out.

But regardless, after thinking about it, I am not really interested in moving my vote for that reason.

@Clark, who are your top town reads?

[Fuchs~]

I don't think Clark is scum. Off-the-hip gut read.

Funny, mine is that you're scum if he isn't.

Spoiler: notes up to this point

Windows town
Lars town? (Definitely if Norris is actually scum)
(36 makes him def town)
Fuchs actually town
Palmer town page one, less so after
MacReady town

Garry def not scum with Clark, might be town?
Looks more town as things are going.

Blair, not gonna bother reading, town enough for now.

Copper scum? (Not with Clark probs.)
Clark scum.
Norris possible scum

Childs, how much had you read when you wrote this post?

It being said under the quote for post 79, while saying up to this point, feels like it should mean that it was your notes up to post 79, but I wanted to check

[Fuchs~]

If they were stupid enough to try they aren't going to be stupid enough to try now you've pointed it out... I don't see the town motivation for posting this now rather than say sometime in D2.

it limits scum options because now they have to think about this

Disagree. I was actually getting ready to type a similar post until I saw 512. Voicing it now announces to the scum team that that is something the will need to keep up with it, while sitting on it for at least a day would open up the possibility of actually catching scum with it.

Not sure that it makes Childs scum, because that seems like a thought that they would post in the scum chat instead of the main thread if they were scum, but it was also probably anti-town to say it.

similar to how nauls (i think it was nauls) commented about not voting on E-2 limits scum options, which I think was a much townier way of the whole "i don't want to put someone to E-1" train of thought than what fuchs did originally

While there are surface similarities, I will give full originality points to nauls for their post.

I had not really considered the quick hammer into slot abandonment option. Mine was more just that it was only page 4.

Although thinking about the quick hammer into slot abandonment option, I don't know that that is actually something scum would want to do unless their current slot was in a really doomed position, so not sure it is actually a super big concern atm.

[Fuchs~]

We can test a jailkeeper claim in this game because scum can't actually have a roleblocker but this risks letting Clark jump into a new body if she is a thing

I am not following this at all.

Oh.

Just checked back to the OP

Things do not have powers beyond the factional kill and assimilation.

Hmm. We could potentially prove their alignment.

However, it would require a different power role out themselves for him to target, likely an invest since they would need to know that they got blocked. And give up that power role's ability for the night.

And if he is scum, then he just slot swaps tonight, and tries again on a different slot.

[Fuchs~]

Wait. If scum cannot have any power roles, then jailkeeper is also kinda janky for town to have too.

[Copper~]

I don't think Clark is scum. Off-the-hip gut read.

Looking back at your iso, the last time you said anything about clark's alignment was this back on page 4

Clark is kinda null for me, that's why, Norris is just scummier.

what about norris do you think is scummy?

I explained it already, the trolling is just ridiculously scummy and not like town having fun. Also he's barely solving if at all, if he actually tried then I'd have looked past the trolling.

[Fuchs~]

less janky then scum in a no vig game (because it could be a purposeful nerf to a doctor role) but still odd

[Copper~]

They way that Clark has gone existing in thread while close to elimination feels more likely to be scum then a town PR I think.

But on the other hand, looking at the Clark wiki, jailkeeper seems very thematically appropriate while jailkeeper seeming to be an unlikely role for scum to get.

Gonna think on it

Makes sense but I have to wonder if the mod would actually have the roles be based on the characters in the movie because, well... they're public... which kinda "opens up" the setup?

[Copper~]

Honestly I’m not the biggest fan of the votes that have piled onto Norris, but Norris also hasn’t given me any reason to feel any better about them than before.

Yeah I'm getting LHF vibes

Doesn't seem like genuine LHF town and more like scum trolling to look like LHF. Subtle difference.

sure, there is a difference, but you haven't done anything to explain what the difference is, hence why your voting seems kinda fabricated/opportunistic

just saying "this trolling seems scummy" and then voting him doesn't really seem like you're trying to figure out alignment, you're just finding a reason

The difference is that he actively seems to be out to annoy people, rather than floundering like LHF.

[Copper~]

Based on the mechanics of the game, I find it doubtful we have a vigilante. And therefore, there would be no mechanical advantage for scum to have a jailkeeper instead of a roleblocker -- unless peta put it in there just for the fake out.

Things do not have powers beyond the factional kill and assimilation.

So I think this point is moot since any claim from a Thing will be made out of whole cloth.

[Copper~]

Fail.

[Copper~]

Wait. If scum cannot have any power roles, then jailkeeper is also kinda janky for town to have too.

Not janky if it's to prevent Follow The Cop-esque strats.

[Garry~]

I don't think Clark is scum. Off-the-hip gut read.

Looking back at your iso, the last time you said anything about clark's alignment was this back on page 4

Clark is kinda null for me, that's why, Norris is just scummier.

what about norris do you think is scummy?

I explained it already, the trolling is just ridiculously scummy and not like town having fun. Also he's barely solving if at all, if he actually tried then I'd have looked past the trolling.

I see
rereading their iso, I don't like how they were interested in a windows vote when it feels like windows isn't that scummy; more jokey imo

[Garry~]

Copper seems better now so moving to null.

[Palmer~]

My mechanical thoughts on the claim:

Even if we ignore the fact that testing Clark's PR would require outing a different PR, we cannot exactly test her claim anyway.

If she's scum, she just jumps out of the Clark account.
Even if the test confirms her as town, we still don't know whether the slot will actually

stay

town, because assimilation is possible.

So I think the claim should be ignored altogether for now. And as I said before, I don't exactly love what they're currently doing dayplay wise.

[Nauls~]

My mechanical thoughts on the claim:

Even if we ignore the fact that testing Clark's PR would require outing a different PR, we cannot exactly test her claim anyway.

If she's scum, she just jumps out of the Clark account.
Even if the test confirms her as town, we still don't know whether the slot will actually

stay

town, because assimilation is possible.

So I think the claim should be ignored altogether for now. And as I said before, I don't exactly love what they're currently doing dayplay wise.

Thought basically the same
Jailkeeper is hard to confirm + assimilation makes fakeclaims for scum a lot more appealing and easy to get away with

[MacReady~]

I don't really care about the claim itself, I'm still stuck on the fact that this doesn't look like a townie claim at all

[Clark~]

Mac - The vast majority of posts have been about my slot and pushing it as scum. There are a few other reads here and there but honestly not a lot. 311 is like the only post that actually tries to look at analysing someone then it's straight back to pushing me. I think Mac's play has been very safe so far which comes from the set-up. I don't think this sort of play would hold up in a normal game later than day 2 at which point it would be picked at for not being solving. But picking an easy to push slot and just keeping on the pressure day one then assimilating away when it flips town.

Copper - Copper just hasn't really said much all game (not that I'm one to talk to be fair). Some tonal/gut reads at the beginning of the game which is all well and good but they haven't developed into anything. The there was the pointless discussion about fake tunnelling as scum and then pushing the troll slot which I think is town

Spoiler:

Bit of an aside, but theses two posts make me want to consider a Mac/Copper team. Playing both sides of a slot and and trying to get traction of an entirely irrelevant question by a partner.

This might seem sort of off-topic but I'm still curious and would be interested how people answer - are you calling scum 'scum' this game, or 'Thing' ?

"Scum"

I don't think Clark is scum. Off-the-hip gut read.

Fuchs - already talked about

those are my three biggest scum reads. Windows and palmer are floating in the lower half of my reads as well but not to the extent of those three

My strongest townread is still Garry, then probably Childs.

[Childs~]

UNVOTE: Clark

I fell asleep at my keyboard, current obligations keep me from catching up, but I have VERY strong reasons to believe the Jailkeeper claim.

I want a confirmation that it's an ungated Jailkeeper, because if it is, then there's something very important to tell y'all.

[Childs~]

Mac - The vast majority of posts have been about my slot and pushing it as scum. There are a few other reads here and there but honestly not a lot. 311 is like the only post that actually tries to look at analysing someone then it's straight back to pushing me. I think Mac's play has been very safe so far which comes from the set-up. I don't think this sort of play would hold up in a normal game later than day 2 at which point it would be picked at for not being solving. But picking an easy to push slot and just keeping on the pressure day one then assimilating away when it flips town.

Copper - Copper just hasn't really said much all game (not that I'm one to talk to be fair). Some tonal/gut reads at the beginning of the game which is all well and good but they haven't developed into anything. The there was the pointless discussion about fake tunnelling as scum and then pushing the troll slot which I think is town

Spoiler:

Bit of an aside, but theses two posts make me want to consider a Mac/Copper team. Playing both sides of a slot and and trying to get traction of an entirely irrelevant question by a partner.

This might seem sort of off-topic but I'm still curious and would be interested how people answer - are you calling scum 'scum' this game, or 'Thing' ?

"Scum"

I don't think Clark is scum. Off-the-hip gut read.

Fuchs - already talked about

those are my three biggest scum reads. Windows and palmer are floating in the lower half of my reads as well but not to the extent of those three

My strongest townread is still Garry, then probably Childs.

Clark, are you an ungated Jailkeeper?

As in, can act N1?

[Childs~]

Clark, are you an ungated Jailkeeper?

As in, can act N1?

This is VERY important,

@Clark~

[Childs~]

I'm pretty sure that we can completely confirm Clark's alignment, here, if I'm right.

It does require that y'all can make sure that a Thing doesn’t take over an account, which this strategy might do, but I believe that we can, genuinely, break the game open from the Things having no prs aside from body snatching and flip less nightkills.

I think that this game was balanced around requiring the Things to bodyswap, and if we deny them that tool, we have a huge advantage.

I NEED Clark to confirm that he doesn’t have certain gates on his role, though.

[Childs~]

I'm pretty sure that we can completely confirm Clark's alignment, here, if I'm right.

It does require that y'all can make sure that a Thing doesn’t take over an account, which this strategy might do, but I believe that we can, genuinely, break the game open from the Things having no prs aside from body snatching and flip less nightkills.

I think that this game was balanced around requiring the Things to bodyswap, and if we deny them that tool, we have a huge advantage.

I NEED Clark to confirm that he doesn’t have certain gates on his role, though.

I would prefer if everyone unvoted Clark right now, because regardless, I very strongly believe the claim.

[Nauls~]

Oooooooh, nice!

[Nauls~]

Breaking the setup sounds fun