Mini 2284: The Thing Anonymous [Day 2]

[Childs~]

Setup

This game uses a

closed

setup. The following information about the game is publicly known.

The Thing

Setup

• 10 Humans
  
  
• 3 Things

Mechanics

• The
  Things
  have daytalk.
  
• The roles of players
  will not
  be revealed on death.
  
• Players who are eliminated during the day
  will
  have their alignment revealed. Players who die during the night
  will not
  .
  
• Assimilation:
  During the night phase, the
  Things
  can choose to have one of their members "Assimilate" the nightkill. If that
  Thing
  successfully carries out the nightkill on its intended target, it will "assimilate" the alternate account of the killed player and gain control of it. The
  Thing
  will lose control of its original account, and it will flip as having died during the night phase instead.
  
• There is no limit to the number of times a
  Thing
  can jump to a new account.
  
• Assimilation is optional for
  Things
  . They do not have to jump to a new account if they do not wish to do so.
  
• There exists at least one Vanilla Townie in this game. Non-vanilla roles may also exist.
  
• Things do not have powers beyond the factional kill and assimilation.
  
• Night actions will be resolved on their
  original target
  . Assimilation takes place
  last
  in the order of Night Action Resolution.

Spoiler: Night Action Resolution Order

1. Hide
   
2. Bus Drive
   
3. Block
   
4. Redirect
   
5. Protect
   
6. Miscellaneous
   
7. Kill
   
8. Inspect
   
9. Assimilate

An action being present in this list does not necessarily mean there is a role in the game capable of performing that type of action.

Spoiler: Sample Human Role PM

Captain Blake

Welcome,

Captain Blake

. You are a

Vanilla Townie

.

You have no special abilities, your only tools are your voice and your vote.

You win when there are no more

Things

remaining.

Confirm by replying with your role name and one of the Anonymous Game Rules.

Spoiler: Sample Thing Role PM

Captain Blake

Welcome,

Captain Blake

. You are a

Thing

.

Your partners are

[Playername]

and

[Playername]

. You may speak with them at any time in your private topic, located here:

[PT link]

Each night phase, one of you or your teammates may kill a player, removing them from the game.

Assimilate:

If you are he one carrying the factional kill, you may choose to assimilate your target. This will give you control of the killed player's account, taking it away from them. You will lose access to your current account, and it will flip as having died overnight. Usage of this ability is optional.

You win when you reach parity with the

Humans

, or nothing can prevent this from happening.

Confirm by replying with your role name and one of the Anonymous Game Rules.

MOD PETAPAN: If a Thing assimilated a power role, would they be able to use it?

[Palmer~]

I am insanely skeptical of this setup being breakable, but I am still listening, lol.

[Clark~]

Clark, are you an ungated Jailkeeper?

As in, can act N1?

Yes, I can act N1

[Childs~]

Clark, are you an ungated Jailkeeper?

As in, can act N1?

Yes, I can act N1

Okay, that's what I needed to hear.

CLAIM: I am a Novice Vigilante.

Aside from the novice, I am ungated.

Clark should target me N1.

From there, we can discuss strategy, but the basic rule for D2 should be that we clearly and unambiguously select my target, and have Clark not jailkeep them.

We can discuss the specifics later, but Clark is always town, here.

[petapan]

MOD PETAPAN: If a Thing assimilated a power role, would they be able to use it?

No. Roles do not transfer on assimilation.

[Childs~]

Clark, are you an ungated Jailkeeper?

As in, can act N1?

Yes, I can act N1

Okay, that's what I needed to hear.

CLAIM: I am a Novice Vigilante.

Aside from the novice, I am ungated.

Clark should target me N1.

From there, we can discuss strategy, but the basic rule for D2 should be that we clearly and unambiguously select my target, and have Clark not jailkeep them.

We can discuss the specifics later, but Clark is always town, here.

And to be clear--absolutely no WIFOMing the N1 target.

No saying that you will protect me, then trying a hero-jailkeep out of greed, in the hopes that scum don't shoot me.

Me, and always me, N1, because with this, the scum might just be desperate enough to try and kill me in spite of the Jailkeeper, in the hopes of the Jailkeeper going elsewhere. They genuinely might have no choice.

So, Clark is just town, here.

Even in the unlikely scenario where he just so HAPPENED to claim the perfect fakeclaim, he can't shoot me N1 without getting himself eliminated.

Well, he could try, and then either assimilate me or claim he lost a WIFOM battle, but as long as you can tell that I haven't been replaced (should be easy enough ), that closes one door and this post stating no WIFOMimg the protection should close the other door, too.

Basically there’s no world where scum should come out ahead here, town should always come out on top.

[Fuchs~]

Fuchs - already talked about

those are my three biggest scum reads. Windows and palmer are floating in the lower half of my reads as well but not to the extent of those three

So, uh...

Did you forget what read you had on me lmao

Decided to ISO Fuchs
I think this is more likely to come from town than scum:

Norris, why does you deciding that I am town mean that I get to decide your vote?

A lot of Fuchs' points are very nuanced which looks to me like trying to solve by thinking deeply about motives rather than the actual actions themselves. Which is what town would want to do instead of scum looking for something bad to jump onto.
To reiterate Fuchs, I don't understand the "why could scum not pretend to be tunnelled" argument. You could say that about literally anything.

Nauls's arguments with Fuchs look like Nauls is actively searching for things to argue about and ways to make Fuchs look bad rather than reading something and thinking it's bad. Then when the clash didn't go anywhere he just dropped it in 433.

[MacReady~]

I don't see how you being a novice vig proves that Clark is town or will enable us to 'test' her overnight.

If Day2 you announce your target and Clark allegedly doesn't jailkeeps them - to the outside observer there's no difference between Clarke jailkeeping anyone else and not being able to jailkeep at all (i.e. because they made up the role)

Also tonight, if scum just try to kill anybody else, we didn't 'prove' Clarke's ability either

I also think a jailkeeper is a scummier claim in light of there allegedly being a vig

[MacReady~]

I'm pretty sure that we can completely confirm Clark's alignment, here, if I'm right.

I'm at a loss how we're going from your role to 'completely confirming Clark's alignment' here

[MacReady~]

Mac - The vast majority of posts have been about my slot and pushing it as scum. There are a few other reads here and there but honestly not a lot. 311 is like the only post that actually tries to look at analysing someone then it's straight back to pushing me. I think Mac's play has been very safe so far which comes from the set-up. I don't think this sort of play would hold up in a normal game later than day 2 at which point it would be picked at for not being solving. But picking an easy to push slot and just keeping on the pressure day one then assimilating away when it flips town.

I strongly think your slot is scum, yes. I see no reason to drop the push

[Palmer~]

Uh. Even going by that plan, it doesn't even prove that Clark is town, it just guarantees that Childs doesn't die N1. And even that isn't good enough, because if Clark IS scum, she just jumps out of her own slot anyway.

Which also, why in the hell would you claim that openly.

Yeah, I hate this.

[Fuchs~]

Novice Jailkeeper does not test the claim lmao.

Also, the reason why I thought we would not have a vigilante is that because in this set up, I think that it would actually be a negative utility role, and if childs is actually a vig (I have my doubts, and my gut reaction was that it was a play to save clark, but also gonna give it some time to think about that too), but if they actually are a vig, I think that they should probably never fire.

Players who are eliminated during the day will have their alignment revealed. Players who die during the night

will not

.

We wont know if it killed town or scum. This is a denial of information for partner associations. So long as scum were only killable during the day, then we would have always been informed when we successfully killed scum, but with a vig we would not.

Furthermore, moment they fire the first time we lose track of the number of scum that exist in the game. We will go from there are exactly X scum, to an unknown number. Making us no longer be able to track things like how close to ELO we are.

Next it will make it harder to hunt for assimilation. If the vig fires and dies in the same night we will no longer be looking to see if exactly "the player who died last night"'s posting mannerisms or like childs mentioned, posting times, have started popping up somewhere else because there would be a second choice of who may have body swapped during the night. [This point was originally thought about before when I was thinking about if this set up made sense to have a vigilante in at all, and I am aware that since there is an open vig claim, this can be worked around by having childs announce their intended during the day, but when I was thinking in the general sense it did not seem likely that even if there was a vig, that it would be claimed before it could fire, and therefore it would be confusion on the following day]

[Fuchs~]

Novice Jailkeeper

does not test the claim lmao.

Novice Vigilante

[Bennings~]

Not sure that it makes Childs scum, because that seems like a thought that they would post in the scum chat instead of the main thread if they were scum, but it was also probably anti-town to say it.

yeah pretty much my line of thinking

[Bennings~]

I'm pretty sure that we can completely confirm Clark's alignment, here, if I'm right.

I'm at a loss how we're going from your role to 'completely confirming Clark's alignment' here

^

[Fuchs~]

Next it will make it harder to hunt for assimilation. If the vig fires and dies in the same night we will no longer be looking to see if exactly "the player who died last night"'s posting mannerisms or like childs mentioned, posting times, have started popping up somewhere else because there would be a second choice of who may have body swapped during the night. [This point was originally thought about before when I was thinking about if this set up made sense to have a vigilante in at all, and I am aware that since there is an open vig claim, this can be worked around by having childs announce their intended during the day, but when I was thinking in the general sense it did not seem likely that even if there was a vig, that it would be claimed before it could fire, and therefore it would be confusion on the following day]

This was not typed out clearly, because my thoughts about it actually changed some while I typed it.

This is largely a non-issue entirely with an outed vig claim vs an unclaimed vig where there were various issues that could arise [like them being killed or the scum target being protected, ect] All of which would compound the info issue.

But with it claimed, all of that kind of washes away. But it was part of my "why I don't think that there is a vig in this game" thoughts, but mid typing it I started thinking about the claim being out there in advance

[Bennings~]

Honestly I’m not the biggest fan of the votes that have piled onto Norris, but Norris also hasn’t given me any reason to feel any better about them than before.

Yeah I'm getting LHF vibes

Doesn't seem like genuine LHF town and more like scum trolling to look like LHF. Subtle difference.

sure, there is a difference, but you haven't done anything to explain what the difference is, hence why your voting seems kinda fabricated/opportunistic

just saying "this trolling seems scummy" and then voting him doesn't really seem like you're trying to figure out alignment, you're just finding a reason

The difference is that he actively seems to be out to annoy people, rather than floundering like LHF.

see i still don't get this

scum aren't trying to "annoy" people they're trying to get townread OR in this game specifically cause chaos and then assimilate

norris behaving that way just puts a target on him for elim D1. doesn't make sense to me from a scum pov

[Bennings~]

Fuchs - already talked about

those are my three biggest scum reads. Windows and palmer are floating in the lower half of my reads as well but not to the extent of those three

So, uh...

Did you forget what read you had on me lmao

Decided to ISO Fuchs
I think this is more likely to come from town than scum:

Norris, why does you deciding that I am town mean that I get to decide your vote?

A lot of Fuchs' points are very nuanced which looks to me like trying to solve by thinking deeply about motives rather than the actual actions themselves. Which is what town would want to do instead of scum looking for something bad to jump onto.
To reiterate Fuchs, I don't understand the "why could scum not pretend to be tunnelled" argument. You could say that about literally anything.

Nauls's arguments with Fuchs look like Nauls is actively searching for things to argue about and ways to make Fuchs look bad rather than reading something and thinking it's bad. Then when the clash didn't go anywhere he just dropped it in 433.

<_<

>_>

lmao

VOTE: Clark

[Fuchs~]

(I have my doubts, and my gut reaction was that it was a play to save clark, but also gonna give it some time to think about that too)

Just put a few more words to this: mentioned before that I did not expect a vig in this set up given the no night flips rule, but I also saw the benefits of a scum/scum pair doing this in this way.

Like, tomorrow they announce that they are going to target the same person to test if he is a jailkeeper (only way I can even think to set up a test with a vig tbh) and if that person does not die, then clark is confirmed town. And then just... don't kill that person. False clear on Clark. This would require Childs to body swap eventually though, because they can never actually result in 2 kills in a night and having claimed vig, but also with their claim, their slot being night killed would have been expected - giving them some cover for the swap.

And if things start falling apart for them, they could also still swap away from either or both of these slots.

----

I am not super sure I believe that scum would even try this, because it would lock childs into a forced body swap at some point, but that was my gut reaction as a combination of not expecting a vig + thinking that clark is scum + seeing a this path.

[Bennings~]

Not much, I almost always get early wagoned day 1 so it's surprisingly business as usual for replacing into a slot

Well more - do you have any reads on anyone who joined the wagon?

You, Blair, Garry are town in my mind, Child is probs town too. Not got a read on Lars yet.

Mac - The vast majority of posts have been about my slot and pushing it as scum. There are a few other reads here and there but honestly not a lot. 311 is like the only post that actually tries to look at analysing someone then it's straight back to pushing me. I think Mac's play has been very safe so far which comes from the set-up. I don't think this sort of play would hold up in a normal game later than day 2 at which point it would be picked at for not being solving. But picking an easy to push slot and just keeping on the pressure day one then assimilating away when it flips town.

Copper - Copper just hasn't really said much all game (not that I'm one to talk to be fair). Some tonal/gut reads at the beginning of the game which is all well and good but they haven't developed into anything. The there was the pointless discussion about fake tunnelling as scum and then pushing the troll slot which I think is town

Spoiler:

Bit of an aside, but theses two posts make me want to consider a Mac/Copper team. Playing both sides of a slot and and trying to get traction of an entirely irrelevant question by a partner.

This might seem sort of off-topic but I'm still curious and would be interested how people answer - are you calling scum 'scum' this game, or 'Thing' ?

"Scum"

I don't think Clark is scum. Off-the-hip gut read.

Fuchs - already talked about

those are my three biggest scum reads. Windows and palmer are floating in the lower half of my reads as well but not to the extent of those three

My strongest townread is still Garry, then probably Childs.

flip flopped on mac as well

[Clark~]

Mac - The vast majority of posts have been about my slot and pushing it as scum. There are a few other reads here and there but honestly not a lot. 311 is like the only post that actually tries to look at analysing someone then it's straight back to pushing me. I think Mac's play has been very safe so far which comes from the set-up. I don't think this sort of play would hold up in a normal game later than day 2 at which point it would be picked at for not being solving. But picking an easy to push slot and just keeping on the pressure day one then assimilating away when it flips town.

I strongly think your slot is scum, yes. I see no reason to drop the push

That like, isn't an answer to half of my point on you

Fuchs - already talked about

those are my three biggest scum reads. Windows and palmer are floating in the lower half of my reads as well but not to the extent of those three

So, uh...

Did you forget what read you had on me lmao

Decided to ISO Fuchs
I think this is more likely to come from town than scum:

Norris, why does you deciding that I am town mean that I get to decide your vote?

A lot of Fuchs' points are very nuanced which looks to me like trying to solve by thinking deeply about motives rather than the actual actions themselves. Which is what town would want to do instead of scum looking for something bad to jump onto.
To reiterate Fuchs, I don't understand the "why could scum not pretend to be tunnelled" argument. You could say that about literally anything.

Nauls's arguments with Fuchs look like Nauls is actively searching for things to argue about and ways to make Fuchs look bad rather than reading something and thinking it's bad. Then when the clash didn't go anywhere he just dropped it in 433.

Nauls not Fuchs. Everyone looks the same this game.

Not much, I almost always get early wagoned day 1 so it's surprisingly business as usual for replacing into a slot

Well more - do you have any reads on anyone who joined the wagon?

You, Blair, Garry are town in my mind, Child is probs town too. Not got a read on Lars yet.

Mac - The vast majority of posts have been about my slot and pushing it as scum. There are a few other reads here and there but honestly not a lot. 311 is like the only post that actually tries to look at analysing someone then it's straight back to pushing me. I think Mac's play has been very safe so far which comes from the set-up. I don't think this sort of play would hold up in a normal game later than day 2 at which point it would be picked at for not being solving. But picking an easy to push slot and just keeping on the pressure day one then assimilating away when it flips town.

Copper - Copper just hasn't really said much all game (not that I'm one to talk to be fair). Some tonal/gut reads at the beginning of the game which is all well and good but they haven't developed into anything. The there was the pointless discussion about fake tunnelling as scum and then pushing the troll slot which I think is town

Spoiler:

Bit of an aside, but theses two posts make me want to consider a Mac/Copper team. Playing both sides of a slot and and trying to get traction of an entirely irrelevant question by a partner.

This might seem sort of off-topic but I'm still curious and would be interested how people answer - are you calling scum 'scum' this game, or 'Thing' ?

"Scum"

I don't think Clark is scum. Off-the-hip gut read.

Fuchs - already talked about

those are my three biggest scum reads. Windows and palmer are floating in the lower half of my reads as well but not to the extent of those three

My strongest townread is still Garry, then probably Childs.

flip flopped on mac as well

my read changed in 10 pages? wow, shocker

[Fuchs~]

Fuchs - already talked about

those are my three biggest scum reads. Windows and palmer are floating in the lower half of my reads as well but not to the extent of those three

So, uh...

Did you forget what read you had on me lmao

Decided to ISO Fuchs
I think this is more likely to come from town than scum:

Norris, why does you deciding that I am town mean that I get to decide your vote?

A lot of Fuchs' points are very nuanced which looks to me like trying to solve by thinking deeply about motives rather than the actual actions themselves. Which is what town would want to do instead of scum looking for something bad to jump onto.
To reiterate Fuchs, I don't understand the "why could scum not pretend to be tunnelled" argument. You could say that about literally anything.

Nauls's arguments with Fuchs look like Nauls is actively searching for things to argue about and ways to make Fuchs look bad rather than reading something and thinking it's bad. Then when the clash didn't go anywhere he just dropped it in 433.

<_<

>_>

lmao

VOTE: Clark

Yeah, nauls is also not mentioned in their new post which seems odd given the thought he put into the slot for their interactions with me in 464.

I am just mulling over whether I think that childs is town, trying to focus on how to deal with a situation using exactly their PR, or if they are scum trying to save clark.

whether I think that childs is town, trying to focus on how to deal with a situation using exactly their PR

I actually thought of a better different way that childs could have been trying to confirm clark then having them both target the same person, and it is actually possibly pretty good. And I might even go for it if clark could not body swap away during the night.

[Fuchs~]

Spoiler:

Fuchs - already talked about

those are my three biggest scum reads. Windows and palmer are floating in the lower half of my reads as well but not to the extent of those three

So, uh...

Did you forget what read you had on me lmao

Decided to ISO Fuchs
I think this is more likely to come from town than scum:

Norris, why does you deciding that I am town mean that I get to decide your vote?

A lot of Fuchs' points are very nuanced which looks to me like trying to solve by thinking deeply about motives rather than the actual actions themselves. Which is what town would want to do instead of scum looking for something bad to jump onto.
To reiterate Fuchs, I don't understand the "why could scum not pretend to be tunnelled" argument. You could say that about literally anything.

Nauls's arguments with Fuchs look like Nauls is actively searching for things to argue about and ways to make Fuchs look bad rather than reading something and thinking it's bad. Then when the clash didn't go anywhere he just dropped it in 433.

]

Nauls not Fuchs. Everyone looks the same this game.

Okay, but if you meant to type Nauls instead of Fuchs there, why did I not make it to your town reads list in there, given I was your most fleshed out town read prior to that post?

My strongest townread is still Garry, then probably Childs.

[Clark~]

Because I town read them more than you...

[MacReady~]

I'm pretty sure that we can completely confirm Clark's alignment, here, if I'm right.

I'm at a loss how we're going from your role to 'completely confirming Clark's alignment' here

^

I'm not usually great at this setup spec - is there something I'm missing here, that would imply novice vig -> clarke town? I just don't follow