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Post Post #2300 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:19 am

Post by Elements »

i can do that if you want
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #2301 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:19 am

Post by Grib »

In post 2298, Aisa wrote:Sorry, just realised I still haven't explained that clearly. I was hoping Elements would be forced to explain why Titus was "the most confirmably town" before I said anything. From my perspective somebody had to blink first.
Fair.
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Post Post #2302 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:21 am

Post by Elements »

JOAT with confirmable night actions e.g. mailman message so at the very least from your perspective Titus has a role if not alignment conformation
the set-up isn't:
3 macho masons + doc + VT VS Roleblocker + JOAT + goon
I agree with everything Elements is posting - Papa Zito
It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #2303 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:21 am

Post by Elements »

so there's like no way Titus is scum and Frog town here I don;t think
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Post Post #2304 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:21 am

Post by Frogsterking »

I thought titus/eira were a vt trying to bait the night shot, now that they've claimed joat I could swap one of Grib or Enchant out for Titus.
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Post Post #2305 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:22 am

Post by Elements »

can JOATs use multiple abilities in the same night?
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It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #2306 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:23 am

Post by Frogsterking »

In post 2305, Elements wrote:can JOATs use multiple abilities in the same night?
If they have multi acting yeah. I don't see that very frequently though
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Post Post #2307 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:23 am

Post by Frogsterking »

In post 2302, Elements wrote:JOAT with confirmable night actions e.g. mailman message so at the very least from your perspective Titus has a role if not alignment conformation
the set-up isn't:
3 macho masons + doc + VT VS Roleblocker + JOAT + goon
In post 2303, Elements wrote:so there's like no way Titus is scum and Frog town here I don;t think
Come again?
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Post Post #2308 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:25 am

Post by Elements »

that's just seems ridiculously unbalanced no?
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It's scummy as fak tho - Gamma Emerald
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Post Post #2309 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:26 am

Post by Elements »

oh snap we have a vog too
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Post Post #2310 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:26 am

Post by Elements »

ignore me
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Post Post #2311 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:29 am

Post by Grib »

VOTE: Enchant
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Post Post #2312 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:33 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 2296, Grib wrote:I wasn't talking about Titus at all. Why do you think it's me and Elements?
In post 2297, Grib wrote:Actually, I take that back. Forget about me, tell me about Elements.
I'm pleasantly surprised that you're this cooperative with someone you scumread by the way, but it is nice.

PoE? Imagine that I think Enchant is Town, Frog is probably Town. That leaves you, Titus, and Elements, and *gestures vaguely to reasons*
In post 2299, Grib wrote:You should probably talk about Enchant too. I don't think you've actually justified a townread on him.
Ugh, fair, but how do I explain vibes? The way he's hung around at deadline, shown interest in the game and in achieving good mechanical outcomes seems towny. You could argue some of that is signalling, I think that Enchant obviously understands to no lim here today as both alignments. The stuff yesterday where he told Bella that she
had to
hammer, though? That's not a post Enchant has to make as scum. I think this is a slot where a simple, naive read like this is actually enough?
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Post Post #2313 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:38 am

Post by Aisa »

In post 2302, Elements wrote:JOAT with confirmable night actions e.g. mailman message so at the very least from your perspective Titus has a role if not alignment conformation
the set-up isn't:
3 macho masons + doc + VT VS Roleblocker + JOAT + goon
I'll give you that's actually a fairly believable analysis, but the complex vig starts looking a lot less like dead weight in this setup?

3 macho masons + doc + complex vig + VT
Roleblocker + JOAT + goon

Also it kind of depends on what you assume the JOAT's abilities are.
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Post Post #2314 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:38 am

Post by Grib »

Nah. He said so himself.
In post 454, Enchant wrote:
In post 448, Thestatusquo wrote:
In post 446, Eiralox wrote:i mean i like enchant, from the little we've interacted so : P I want an answer for why Enchant is on Asia, but i'm ok if folk aren't as active day ones..... the one doesn't cancel the other, and me liking enchant doesn't mean i'm not holding open the possibility that they're scum.... they're pretty much null to me, but i want them to peek in and change my mind >.>
I ask simply because my understanding of enchant's meta is that when they're not doing anything they're way more likely to be scum.
I don't have meta

I am same idiot as both alignments, just more informed as maf

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Post Post #2315 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:40 am

Post by Grib »

Where does he show he cares about achieving good mechanical outcomes? What's the significance of telling Bella to hammer that has to come from a villager?

If you reread the game from a Grib/Elements/BBT perspective, does the game flow naturally? Does the team fit? Have you even reread the game with that team in mind, or are you just like "welp here are the leftovers, die die die"
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Post Post #2316 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:42 am

Post by Grib »

I really do want to know why Elements is scum beyond being a leftover name. Look at her play over the course of the game and tell me what she was thinking as BBT's buddy, and how she ended up doing the things she did.
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Post Post #2317 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:44 am

Post by Grib »

And I'm not asking you to like, analyze every single word uttered by her. Just like, the big picture things. Key moments in the game, or posts of hers that jump out at you.
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Post Post #2318 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:49 am

Post by Aisa »

He may not think he doesn't have a meta, that doesn't mean he doesn't have one. You've also said that he "seems towny" at points and you must have been going off something, what was that?

But I give it to you, you have a rhetorical point if nothing else. This is miselim or lose! We ought not to throw around reads carelessly! Rigour!
In post 1588, Aisa wrote:I did some Enchant meta research a few days ago, but never got around to writing it up until now.

It turns out during Days 1-2 I was misremembering the Enchant meta tell that I was told about. I thought the meta tell was that Enchant posts less as scum. It turns out that the meta tell is that Enchant sounds kinda lifeless and more dry as scum, a bit like the text equivalent of an empty laugh.

Some Enchy scum games:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89712
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89536
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=89510

Some Enchy town games:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=89608
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89965

I should probably acknowledge that Gamma is the one who noticed the tell.

Which meta do people think Enchant's tone is closer to in this game?
I also made a whole post about Enchant meta yesterday. No one picked me up on my question and then I either forgot to follow up on it or didn't care to, whoops. But, uh, maybe you can see why I don't think I'm going to be convinced to move by a "No, Enchant himself said he doesn't have a meta".

Although uh, I have to give it to you, I thought I said Enchant was town at the time I made that post, I actually decided to see how people reacted first, so you're right that I haven't justified my read much.

P-edit yes I can talk about all that
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Post Post #2319 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:50 am

Post by Frogsterking »

I was considering flipping my read on Grib until his most recent string of posts
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Post Post #2320 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:51 am

Post by Frogsterking »

In post 2311, Grib wrote:VOTE: Enchant
Is this distancing or does Grib really want to take down Enchant?
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Post Post #2321 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:52 am

Post by Grib »

Did I stutter?
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Post Post #2322 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:53 am

Post by Frogsterking »

In post 2310, Elements wrote:ignore me
You did make me realize though that unless Titus is multiacting they couldn't have rolestopped/roleblocked AND mailed in the same night
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Post Post #2323 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:54 am

Post by Grib »

Also, I almost got voted out last phase, with Enchant happily encouraging people to vote me. And you think we're buddies?
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Post Post #2324 (ISO) » Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:55 am

Post by Frogsterking »

In post 2323, Grib wrote:Also, I almost got voted out last phase, with Enchant happily encouraging people to vote me. And you think we're buddies?
I was considering that it was distancing yeah
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