In post 304, Frogsterking wrote:...my player slot was combined with Titus and turned into a mod-given Hydra called "Legends" who proceeded to eliminate scum D1 and absorb 4 consecutive dayvig shots from the scum team. If you are telling the truth and this was a banal series of events to you--DOUBT--then sign me up for whatever games you have been playing please.
And then after absorbing those shots, you immediately died.
You're not contradicting what I said.
You weren't notable to me that game because I died immediately to the first scum daykill and you died shortly after. The scum spent every kill they had to kill me and then you. I had a wrong read on you when I was alive, but if I recall correctly I had reasons for shifting it when dead into a more correct read and then you died shortly after anyway.
I wasn't referring to you being absorbed into Legends when I said you died shortly thereafter.
I was referring how you were the second person the scum killed, with me being the first. It took them longer to kill you than it did to kill me, but you still died early-on, and I died even earlier on.
We had more time in the dead PT together than we did with you alive and me dead and we had more time with you alive and me dead than we had with both of us alive. And because I'm more of a tactile learner, that meant I simply put: didn't remember you for you. I remember the overall presence of the Legends hydra and what they caused to happen. (Scum repeatedly shooting them to kill them.) I remember none of your play. Why would I? Your play at that point was more in a audio/visual-learning style. Distanced from the action. I don't remember games I read but don't play in. I don't remember the details of game I mod (players who played in them literally remember my own games better than I do), or the details of games I review. I don't remember the details of games I played after I died. I don't remember the details of games where I wasn't pushing. (Which is why most of my games older than a few years ago, I have no memory of. I didn't have the playstyle I have no, so I don't remember what happened.)
Because I remember events happening when I push people; I don't remember events happening when I don't push people.
You can doubt that all you want, but as *I* am the one with access to my mind and you do not have that, it's MY stance we'll be using because I'm the one who knows how I process information and retain it long-term.
If I hadn't been daykilled by the scum that game and was around to push you long-term, then I probably
would
have remembered--but because I WAS daykilled by the scum and couldn't push you long-term, I didn't. It's that simple. You're not notable if you're not involved in a longterm push I make.
(Mind you, I use 'push' here loosely. Push also involves me pushing townreads as town. Push involves someone fighting me on my read with a counter-push of their conflicting read. But if I don't push you as town or scum long-term, and you don't counter-push my push on a player as town/scum long-term, I am not going to remember. It's that simple.)
In post 305, Frogsterking wrote: In post 302, N.Y. M wrote:And you pivoted away from the Flavia case you wrote.
Why shouldn't I, with my suspicion of Flavia, think that you writing a good case on Flavia and then discarding it when Flavia is gaining momentum to push elsewhere, is you distancing Flavia but avoiding committing to the hard bus?
Because that's the dumbest scum play I've ever heard and makes no sense whatsoever from an Informed perspective?
Competent scum players make plans. These plans are flexible, and still involve a certain amount of improvising in the moment, but their actions usually reflect them having either already come up with a plan, or as a result of an action, begin to formulate a plan.
Do you disagree with that as a premise? That competent scum tend to think ahead? That while they might make decisions in-the-moment, they usually plan for the future and lay the groundwork for lategame in every move they make? (Or least, attempt to.)
Because as long as you don't disagree with that premise, then there shouldn't be any reason you can't understand the motive from an informed perspective for the action.
Pushing a scumbuddy for distancing with a case, but pivoting away, is not an action which will earn you credit in the moment.
It is an action that will earn you credit come the mid to lategame, when people go back to review your iso and see what you did, when.
Demonstrating a progression of thought is often seen as town, so as scum, progressing thoughts is a good way to make you look good to people looking back later.
Demonstrating a strong scumread on a player who might have flipped scum later in the game, increases the odds that you will be townread later in the game if that scum actually does flip. But by having avoided actually pushing it through, you allow for the scum to be eliminated in the midgame or not at all, rather than forcing it through early.
Those are signature traits of any remotely competent scum player--faking read progression and keeping scumbuddies alive in a way that furthers the scum win condition without being obvious about keeping scumbuddies alive and in fact laying groundwork for it to look town when they flip.
I admit that this does rely a bit on Flavia being scum--it's not nearly as true with Flavia as town.
But you can't seriously tell me that you don't see how that'd be good scumplay. It's not some revolutionary concept. It's arguably basic. You'd have better luck arguing it's so basic that it being that basic is why it isn't actually scum (too basic scum to be scum, a variant on too scummy to be scum), but even there I don't think it's too basic. It's not super-advanced, but it's not surface-level, either.
Now, does that mean that you actually are scum? No.
Does that mean that you actually did it? No.
But don't pretend that there is no merit to the theory. There is. There isn't a question of if the theory has merit; there is a question of if the theory is actually true or not, if the merit actually means something or not.
I'm not going to push you because Nancy believes you are town and my read on you was--explicitly--a weak one. (I very explicitly said as much.) My read not strong, her read VERY strong, I trust Nancy's read and don't trust my own read, so like: I'm not really interested in pursuing you, here.
But I am still going to call things as I see them, because there's literally no reason not to, not at this stage of the game.
Later into D1 and into the early midgame, sure! Callouts should be more strategic.
But less than 72 hours into the first day of the game?
What makes you so defensive towards the comment suggesting you're scum?
As town, you don't need to be concerned--it's the earlygame and you can prove yourself to be town with time.
You can't tell me that scum wouldn't have reason to be concerned to see early suspicion on them.
As a matter of fact, I'm not!
I'm not pushing you because you are a
weak
scumread of mine, who is a STRONG townread of Nancy. That means I am not interested in pushing you at all. Her read overrides mine. I'll still
note
my read, because there's no reason not to, but I'm not pushing you. So you'd be quite correct to believe I'm not pushing you, because I'm not.
And you are also quite correct to believe that I'm not pushing you just because of your Flavia push looking like distancing. Because I wasn't. I said you were a scumlean of mine since page one. Were you pushing Flavia on page one? Why no, no you were not. My scumread predates your Flavia push so naturally, my scumread is in no way shape or form reliant on the Flavia push.
But,
I individually think Flavia looks like scum;
I individually think your play looks scum;
I have enough townreads that you two both would be in the PoE;
Your post looked like distancing specifically to me--it didn't look like scum making a push on town, it didn't look like town making a push on scum, it specifically looked like scum distancing from scum.
These are things worth noting, even if I don't push them, because there's literally no reason not to.
It was! I don't remember the details of games after I die in them. I don't see how that's such a shocking concept to you considering most players don't. Like, literally, most players once they die stop reading the game. And thus, don't remember what happened after they died. Even if they do read the game, because they're not engaging it, there's more of a disconnect between their memory because of the lack of engagement. It's simple brain science. If you're not actively there as an active participant, you're more of an observer to the event. Observers have poorer memory than participants.
I was an observer for most of TFT, so I do not have the memory of a participant.
The most memorable part of TFT is that the scum dayvigged me almost immediately in the game, the moment they realized they could. That's what I remember from that game. I don't even remember the players, yet alone, the specifics of the day phases, because while I remember a lot of the most important roles (the Legends role, Yume inheriting their role), I remember none of the details. Because they weren't involving me.
In post 310, Frogsterking wrote: 3)
302 is a Town post. It seems to be written mostly about things unrelated to the game in a way that scum do when they aren't sure what to say.
I mean, it's fair that I do talk a lot about theory just for the fun of it and have a noted tendency to do that as scum, but the only reason it's notable as scum is because that's the only thing present in my iso as scum. It's not actually alignment indicative, so much as it is, it is more obviously visible when I am scum and less visible when I am town because the total volume of my content as town is just so much more, whereas the total volume of my scum posting is so small that the theory is more visible.
But, talking theory is fun to me because I am highly invested in mafia theory, so give me an opportunity and I
will
debate with you, because I find it fascinating, fun, and I love to preach my viewpoint and my perspective.
The difference is, as scum these rambles tend to just be there for the sake of being there, whereas when town they are usually triggered by something and I am making a specific point in that post.
Don't fucking pretend that 302 had no point in it. There was a lot of theory in that post, but you know what all of that theory was highlighting?
It was highlighting why I have suspicion on you. There was
purpose
behind it. It wasn't unrelated to the game--there was an actual tangible REASON for posting it.
I'm not going to push you because Nancy has you as her strongest townread.
But I'm also not going to just not say my own personal read on you.
That read is
barely
south of null, because it is a weak read, all gut, mostly tone.
But I'm not going to lie about the read or not state it, just because of that.
I am going to state my reasons, even if they are weak, and to elaborate when asked on them more.
In post 313, Frogsterking wrote:@mastina
In post 279, Frogsterking wrote:Nah my read trajectory on you makes sense, re-evaluating is Townie and being too consistent is a scum tell. My read changed on you because I'm uninformed so it takes me longer than you to figure out what's going on. Like I said, this is really vanilla BnB scum whining your putting out, I need something spicier if I'm expected to pay attention to your complaints.
In the case the irony in
312 is lost on you.
I am afraid even with this, whatever point you are trying to make doesn't come through.
Are you trying to say that a scum-you
cannot
adjust your read on players, and justify this shift with reasoning?
That'd be disrespectful to your scumplay and incredible shallow reasoning.
You quoted from my article that nobody does anyone favors by arbitrarily assuming something
must
be true, implying you agree with that phrase.
But it is that very phrase that I am invoking in my suspicion on you.
When I said "objectively, why
shouldn't
I think your Flavia push was distancing?", that is not me arbitrarily assuming something must be true. It's me having analyzed the situation, and seeing one conclusion as more likely than the other, and asking you, why do you find that conclusion unreasonable to make? You knowing your alignment and thoughts know if the conclusion is right or wrong, but you can know an argument is wrong while still acknowledging the merit behind the logic, and providing an explanation for why it's not true.
When I say "no arbitrarily assuming something must be true", that backs me up in read trajectory not being seen as a universal towntell. Your trajectory notably changed. You are saying that change in trajectory was inherently town. If you are town you know it was town--but arguing it was
inherently
town is objectively not true.
From a skilled scum player, your trajectory fits.
Does that mean the trajectory CAME from scum? No.
But I am still going to call it as I see it, and note the suspicion.
I'm not going to push it.
But I am going to note it.
Btw Johnny does look like scum here.
Just sayin'.
In post 322, Herta wrote:But why move off of Flavia? After Mastina just endorsed your vote?
Nancy and Yume can vote wherever they please, as far as I'm concerned, as long as it's not my locktown.
I gave them permission to override my read on literally anyone except my conftown (albeit preferring they stay off DV and PP too as well as wanting to give Bell more time and stay away for now).
They can vote any of the other seven players and have my blessing.
I endorse the Flavia vote, but I will give my blessing to them if they want to vote any of Kokabiel, Herta, Passenger, Flavia, Johnny, Frogsterking, Andres}.
I personally have gut-based townreads on Kokabiel, Herta, and Passenger, but I explicitly have said those reads are:
-early
-gut
-weak,
And thus can be freely overridden if they want to pursue them.
-mastina
so what bullshit tree are you trying to plant?
The fact that your only real reads are on people who've voted you isn't a good look. I think you overreacted for the amount of votes you 
