Mini 150--Beetlejuice Mafia--CANCELLED

[willows_weep]

I would love to know what should be said that isnt...
Ok, yae halfpint is starting to look odd.

unvote

[halfpint]

Okay ....

I received a pm last night that hinted that MeMe may be scum. That's pretty much what the pm said without revealing word for word what the pm said. I don't know if this is true or not, so of course the person that I would want to hear from most is MeMe.

[PeaceBringer]

so then if received such PM then why did you decide to say she was not scum?

[rolandofthewhite]

That sort of what I was wondering...

[halfpint]

Well, like I said when I originally stated it, when MeMe responded to my vote, it didn't seem like something MeMe would have done if she was scum. I could be wrong, but that's what I decided based on her actions. The pm didn't say she was scum; it just hinted that she may be.

[PeaceBringer]

well given this is beetlejuice mafia I wouldn't put it past the mod to have red herrings.

Our choice is test it by running her up, or letting her live.

I see reasonable logic to both approaches.

[PBuG]

VOTE COUNT!!!

ONE VOTE

PeaceBringer

TripMyWire

Stewie

halfpint

TWO VOTES

halfpint

MeMe, Stewie

MeMe

NanookTheWolf, Dourgrim

THREE VOTES

Deadline: Thursday, January 27, 6 PM CST

I think that could be enough time to reach a verdict based on weekend business.

[MeMe]

If there's any action to be taken on halfpint's information, I think it'd be against her, not me.

She's not claiming cop -- she's claiming to have received a PM that hints that I'm scum. At best, scum has the ability to send night messages. At worst, she's making it up. Lynching her would tell us which...and, if she's innocent, we'd (well I would anyway) know to ignore any further overnight messages...and a cop-check/role-block/whathaveyou of me would put any worries about me to bed.

halfpint - was there any other information with the PM? Did it say it was from another player? Was there any reason given why you'd received it?

[PeaceBringer]

come on seriously MeMe-

Lynching halfpint wouldn't tell us squat.

Lynching you would tell us a ton. If we lynch you we know whether the message was a setup view beetlejuice or if it was some accurate info-

the last plan that seems sound to me is lynching halfpintm that is just plain absurd to me.

[MeMe]

First -- you said that you could see "reasonable logic" to both approaches...so, what's

your

reasonable logic for "letting" me live if not what I said?

Second - I

am

right. If we lynch her and she's innocent...we know that she really did receive a PM (innocents don't lie). And, as I said, I at least would know that the note was bogus...deliberately misleading. How on earth is that "squat"?

[MeMe]

Lynching you would tell us a ton. If we lynch you we know whether the message was a setup view beetlejuice or if it was some accurate info-

Oh my...I just realized that you're assuming there is, indeed a message. Why would you assume that just on halfpint's word?

And if you lynch me...why would that further let you know that this alleged message was a set-up?? It'd be equally as likely that the message was non-existent as that it was simply bogus...slightly more so as it's been pointed out by two people -- one of them being, interestingly enough, YOU -- that her behavior was not in line with the receipt of such a note.

Very interesting. Very, very interesting.

[PeaceBringer]

Lynching you would tell us a ton. If we lynch you we know whether the message was a setup view beetlejuice or if it was some accurate info-

Oh my...I just realized that you're assuming there is, indeed a message. Why would you assume that just on halfpint's word?

And if you lynch me...why would that further let you know that this alleged message was a set-up?? It'd be equally as likely that the message was non-existent as that it was simply bogus...slightly more so as it's been pointed out by two people -- one of them being, interestingly enough, YOU -- that her behavior was not in line with the receipt of such a note.

Very interesting. Very, very interesting.

yes, I assume there was such a PM- why because I don't see the value in scum lying about that to get a lynch. Not a good scum play INMHO. Just doesn't make sense. Halfpints behavior was a bit inconsistent but your reaction to the information I find troubling as well.

[Stewie]

I think that either halfpint is lying or that the Pm is as good as crap. If I had gotten a Pm saying that someone was scum, I would look at them closer, but actually assume the opposite of what the Pm says, or completly ignore it as evidence. Why would the mod tell you who is scum?

[PeaceBringer]

I think that either halfpint is lying or that the Pm is as good as crap. If I had gotten a Pm saying that someone was scum, I would look at them closer, but actually assume the opposite of what the Pm says, or completly ignore it as evidence. Why would the mod tell you who is scum?

I see 2 options-- Red Herring or some sort of passed on investigative info- not sure what is most likely. I really don't like either as a lynch today but not really a solid target either.

[MeMe]

Halfpints behavior was a bit inconsistent but your reaction to the information I find troubling as well.

Let me point out that there'd been zero reaction from me on the information until you ridiculously suggested "running [me] up" as a way to test it.

And I'd still like to hear your "reasonable logic" is for letting me live (seeing as you seemed to find my logic ridiculous...without actually explaining how it actually

was

).

And I'd also like to know why you went from being the first to state doubt regarding halfpint's note story to assuming it's true.

unvote: halfpint

thisclose to voting PB

[rolandofthewhite]

I'm really not sure that the PM is valid, either. A hint isn't enough to lynch someone, particularly if we only have one person's word for it. It would be an interesting tactic for scum to say the got a PM that said that someone

MIGHT

be scum, get that innocent person lynched, and then say, "Oops. Not my fault though. The PM only said 'might'..."

And I do find it odd how eager PB is to believe halfpint and lynch MeMe... But not quite enough to merit my vote yet.

[halfpint]

Stewie: Well, I took merit in it is because it is day 1, and I really didn't have much else to go on.

MeMe: No reason was given in the pm about why it was sent, nor who sent it.

roland: I am not trying to get her lynched. Although there are times where I wonder if she is indeed scum (as I do with you all), I'm not even voting for her. If I really thought she was scum right now, I would vote for her.

[PeaceBringer]

I'm really not sure that the PM is valid, either. A hint isn't enough to lynch someone, particularly if we only have one person's word for it. It would be an interesting tactic for scum to say the got a PM that said that someone

MIGHT

be scum, get that innocent person lynched, and then say, "Oops. Not my fault though. The PM only said 'might'..."

And I do find it odd how eager PB is to believe halfpint and lynch MeMe... But not quite enough to merit my vote yet.

WTH-- way to spin what I said. Have I said one word at all about being eager to lynch MeMe. I said what the options are, even discussed possibility of meme being set up. If we are to lynch only one of meme or halfpint, meme would be choice based on behavior but I would much rather find another direction. Stewie currently has my vote, so

FOS Roland for now

and am certainly in a mood to change my vote but right now will just point at you cause twisting words is scummy.

[MeMe]

vote: PeaceBringer

, my best current guess.

Since halfpint's "note" post:

--He claims to assume the existence of a note when he first expressed skepticism
--He mocked my post in which I said we'd get more from a halfpint lynch than a MeMe lynch
--He claimed to see reasonable logic to both lynching me and letting me live, but despite my directly asking him (twice) what his logic for not lynching me was, he's yet to elaborate -- which seems like unnecessary avoidance.
--He said my reaction to hp's information was "troubling," though I'd had no reaction to the information -- only to his ideas about the information
--In his last post he claimed not to want to change his vote from Stewie...but since PBuG has him listed in the most recent vote count as voting for no one, I went back to see who was right (which made an interesting journey through PB's recent posts). This is the unvote post...

okay-- now meme and halfpint are going at it- I moved off meme cause Halfpint made a comment that her reading of meme suggested meme was clean. SO I got no clue what is goig on and really need to sort through things more so

UNVOTE

...which, in retrospect, looks as though he was interested in capitalizing on the perceived catfight -- since he goes to the trouble of explaining that the only reason he originally unvoted me was due to hp's comment (poising himself to

re

-vote me, it seems). He obviously didn't bother to "sort through things more" or he'd have remembered his vote was currently unplaced, eh?

Adding the most recent events to his early lurking (though he hates lurkers), makes me feel pretty secure that I've got it right.

[PeaceBringer]

OKay Meme, you are doing everything in your power to convince me that you are scum. Yes, I didn't double check where my vote was an forgot I had voted. I never have claimed to gone back and read throught he details. I only discussed what I am reacting to.


Yes, I asked halfpint about the inconsistency in her behavior, trying to sort out the information. The claim of getting a note and then saying most likely village is a question but I found the answer to the question reasonable.


So what are the options-

1- Halfpint got the note, meme is in fact guilty.
2. Halfpint got the note, it is a frame up.
3. Halfpint did not get the note and is lying just to lynch Meme.

Lets examine the options.

Option one- Meme is scum. This can be examined by Meme being lynched or being investigated.

Option two- this can be examined by meme being lynched or investigated.

Option three would be a bold move by scum and would result in Halfpint getting self lynched. It would be a sacrificial play by scum. Possible.

Of those options I find the 3rd option to be least likely and don't believe it. I view the other 2 optoins as being more likely and do see the possibility of a frame up to exist in a beetlejuice game.



Proposed options

1. Lynch Meme- learn quickly if notes are accurate or false if exist.
2. Lynch someone else, leave Meme for investigation.- still need to find another scummy player to lynch. Meme could be "godfather" type role but being beetlejuice if was scummy maybe a chance unscummified?
3. Lynch no one, let investigation sort it out tomorrow.- we get no voting record, scum get a chance to act but might be called for.
4. Lynch Halfpint- I personally fail to see how this would sort any of the options except the last and see it as low gain.

I was disturbed by Meme suggesting the worst possible option. I find her reaction to what has been going on disturbing and find the behavior to appear scummy to me. I haven't played before with me but did read a game in which she was scum and find similarities in presentation but that may be her style in general.


Unlike what has been claimed, I have not advocated for lynching Meme.

I thought my last vote was on stewie. I was wrong. I initially backed off of meme given Halfpint suggesting the Meme was playing village self. SInce I don't know meme, took that word and backed off even though meme felt scummy to me. I just have my gut reactions to the play at hand and this is what I see. I also know people can easily take my play and turn it toward being suspiscious because I do make errors, am not always detail oriented and just have a style folks think are scummy.

So I HAVE NOT ADVOCATED A COURSE OF ACTION. I have not insisted on lynching MEME as the best course. It would be how I would lean at the moment but I also see the other options. I find it real scummy that when questioned on play to have the heat turned on that person. I am an easy person to turn heat on to.


So keep up the pressure Meme--only makes you look more scummy.

[MeMe]

Option 3 you say would be a sacrificial, resulting in a "self lynch" for halfpint while noting that you consider this "possible"...and then you go on to say that the note being a frame-up is also particularly possible in a Beetlejuice game.

Erm.

If everyone's willing to believe option 1 or 2 (and you sure do) that pretty clearly says that 3 would very likely

not

be a sacrifice play at all. As has already been said earlier, all halfpint has to say if I get lynched is "oops, I guess the note was bogus" tomorrow. Not at all a sacrifice play -- certainly you could've worked that out...?

Proposed options

1. Lynch Meme- learn quickly if notes are accurate or false if exist.

This option will not prove anything except whether or not I'm scum...as everyone'll still be in the dark as to whether the notes actually exist -- especially as we know there were (and probably still are) two killing groups in this game.

2. Lynch someone else, leave Meme for investigation.- still need to find another scummy player to lynch.

Found one.

3. Lynch no one, let investigation sort it out tomorrow.- we get no voting record, scum get a chance to act but might be called for.

No-lynch being proposed on day 1? Not a good move -- though I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and guess that you were going for thoroughness here rather than truly putting this forward as a viable option.

4. Lynch Halfpint- I personally fail to see how this would sort any of the options except the last and see it as low gain.

I agree that the gain would be minimal (if she's innocent)...but it's certainly better than lynching me.

Option 5: Lynch PeaceBringer as the scummiest-acting person in the game and forget the note for now. Tomorrow, if another one appears, we'll have more information.

I was disturbed by Meme suggesting the worst possible option. I find her reaction to what has been going on disturbing and find the behavior to appear scummy to me. I haven't played before with me but did read a game in which she was scum and find similarities in presentation but that may be her style in general.

What an interesting paragraph. You're disturbed that I would suggest the "worst possible option"? Um...let's take a look at what I actually said, shall we?

If there's any action to be taken on halfpint's information, I think it'd be against her, not me.

She's not claiming cop -- she's claiming to have received a PM that hints that I'm scum. At best, scum has the ability to send night messages. At worst, she's making it up. Lynching her would tell us which...and, if she's innocent, we'd (well I would anyway) know to ignore any further overnight messages...and a cop-check/role-block/whathaveyou of me would put any worries about me to bed.

halfpint - was there any other information with the PM? Did it say it was from another player? Was there any reason given why you'd received it?

And that was in response to your post here where you proposed the possibility of lynching me as a response to halfpint's note...

Our choice is test it by running her up, or letting her live.

I see reasonable logic to both approaches.

I said "if" there's any action regarding the note it shouldn't be against me and then I explained what we'd learn from lynching her (without saying we

should

, just making a point) and then I went on to question her about the note...

Pardon me while I giggle about the irony of you recently having a bit of a hissy over roland twisting

your

words.

So keep up the pressure Meme--only makes you look more scummy.

I'll pressure anyone who I think needs it, PB...so you can bet that, for the moment, I'll keep leaning on you...although I think you're confused about who's looking scummy here.

[PeaceBringer]

Meme, I reacted to your saying that lynching Halfpint would be a good idea.

Notice in all this I haven't vote for you again. I have simply been discussing options. I find you play scummy, yes. You find my play scummy. The game I read where you were scum was the Newbie island game and I have noticed you doing the same things here. THat granted is my only real experience of your play. So this may be your usual approach.

No I was not suggesting no lynch. I haven't suggested any of the options. Unlike you who have jumped to a conclusion based on my play.

So far we have been at odds. You went hard after dourgrim and I didn't see any sound reason for that. In turn you began a fight with halfpint who in turn said she had a note saying you were guilty. Since I tend to consider it likely she got something and just a matter of whether accurate or set up.

The "phony" play you say makes sense because she can say oops, mistake. Well, there is too much risk in that kind of play to have any real bg payoff. If there is only one day of notes, halfpint gets lynched if come off as a set-up. THere are the chance that any investigator may look there way.

Again note I have not voted for you yet. I have not settled yet for a course of action. Your stated intent to convince everyone to lynch me has me very concerned and seems very scummy.

[MeMe]

Meme, I reacted to your saying that lynching Halfpint would be a good idea.

I never said that lynching halfpint would be a "good idea." I pointed out what could be

learned

by lynching her (in contrast to what could be learned by lynching me) -- in both the post I quoted above and then again in response to your statement that we wouldn't learn "squat" if she was lynched.

Notice in all this I haven't vote for you again. I have simply been discussing options. I find you play scummy, yes.

In a game where hunting and killing scum is the town's directive -- I find the fact that you

haven't

re-voted me while claiming to find me scummy rather questionable. You certainly had no problem voting me before when there was less reason to (other than defending the lurker Dourgrim), so what's stopping you now that there's a note giving you an excuse?

No I was not suggesting no lynch. I haven't suggested any of the options.

You might want to look up the word "proposed" in the dictionary, then.

Unlike you who have jumped to a conclusion based on my play.

On what do

you

propose we base conclusions?

So far we have been at odds. You went hard after dourgrim and I didn't see any sound reason for that.

He was lurking, remember? And you hate that...remember?

And this might be a good time to call PBuG's attention to the fact that in the V/LA thread, Dour requested replacement in all of his games.

In turn you began a fight with halfpint who in turn said she had a note saying you were guilty.

Um...I didn't begin a fight with halfpint. Unless you consider responding to posts and disagreeing about the game "a fight." Both she and I have already said that neither of us felt there was any kind of fight going on.

The "phony" play you say makes sense because she can say oops, mistake. Well, there is too much risk in that kind of play to have any real bg payoff. If there is only one day of notes, halfpint gets lynched if come off as a set-up. THere are the chance that any investigator may look there way.

I'm not sold that this is what halfpint's doing -- but it's ridiculous that you say that it's risky and that it wouldn't have any real payoff. You think that halfpint will get lynched if it comes off as a set-up? How does that make sense? If the note exists and it's a set-up, she'd be counted as being set-up along

with

me. And as for the investigator thing...you said in your last post that there's the possibility of a godfather. Apparently, that's only something you bring up when you're discussing

me

being investigated, eh? Doesn't even factor into the equation when talking about others? It makes even more sense for someone with investigation protection to try this kind of ploy than someone who's simply the victim of it. Consider -- if hp's a godfather, being investigated isn't a fear she'd have, so doing something that'd make her the subject of investigation actually protects the other member(s) of her family. Please, at least be across-the-board consistent in your theories.

Again note I have not voted for you yet. I have not settled yet for a course of action.

Again, I find it very odd that you're not if you truly think I'm scummy.

Your stated intent to convince everyone to lynch me has me very concerned and seems very scummy.

And

where

is this statement of mine?

[PeaceBringer]

My my Meme, when you get going, you do really get going.

See I haven't voted for you yet cause I would like to get thoughts on the other players as to what they see, in case I miss something. I have no intent of trying to lead others in any direction. I state my thoughts, cast my votes, and go from there. So you want my vote on you, I got no problem voting you.

VOTE MEME

However, I really would like to get a sense of what the right play is, or the best play for the town and not just go off voting for you, on the off chance that you are not the lying scum you come off to me as being. I seen this behavior from you before, in the one game I read. I saw you manage to convince folks to get a doctor lynched. You are really quite persuasive. But I also realize I may be just reacting to your normal style, I got no freakin' clue what the reality is.

Sure Halfpint could be godfather type as well. And a made up note would make sense but again not a typical play and a bold gambit. And yes your play bothers me enough that I don't see "everything"



Meme-- it was your behavior after Dourgrim posted, not before. Yes I hate lurkers but when folks re-engage the game on day one that is usually good enough for me initially.


And yes, Meme you didn't say out right. I want to get Peacebringer lynched. But certainly your comment of keeping up the pressure and ongoing attempts to paint my play as scummy does.

[MeMe]

My my Meme, when you get going, you do really get going.

Right back atcha. Though I'll note that you didn't bother contributing much until I leaned.

I would also like to hear others' input...but I don't need to hide behind it. I'm

fine

making my own strong decisions (leading), and I'm also fine changing my mind later (following OR leading in a different direction) if input warrants it. But, so far, I'm just a lone voice -- only the second vote on you. You seem scared I'm a leader when

no one

else has weighed in on this back and forth. Paranoia, perhaps?

You sound more and more as though you wanted to push without committing, which could have resulted in coming off as a follower though you'd been an instigator. That you avoided placing your vote until now...but felt the need to do so after I pointed out how scummy it was that you

hadn't

looks as though you, too, were worried it didn't look quite right.

Yep. So happy with my current vote.