[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

Lord Gurgi · Post Post #350 (ISO) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 8:27 am

Ack! Hans! Run!

2 Mafia

1 Hans (Can call the coast guard once to stop the mafia kill, whatever it is)
5 Townies

mykonian · Post Post #351 (ISO) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 10:58 am

Lord Gurgi wrote:
Ack! Hans! Run!

2 Mafia

1 Hans (Can call the coast guard once to stop the mafia kill, whatever it is)
5 Townies

=
2 mafia, 7 town minus nightkill N1

Lord Gurgi · Post Post #352 (ISO) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:23 am

mykonian wrote:
Lord Gurgi wrote:
Ack! Hans! Run!

2 Mafia

1 Hans (Can call the coast guard once to stop the mafia kill, whatever it is)
5 Townies
=
2 mafia, 7 town minus nightkill N1

Why use it N1?

Mr. Flay · Post Post #353 (ISO) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:47 am

It's fairly optimal strategy, since Hans is the only power role the Mafia have to worry about killing.

Lord Gurgi · Post Post #354 (ISO) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 11:49 am

Mr. Flay wrote:It's fairly optimal strategy, since Hans is the only power role the Mafia have to worry about killing.

Stopping the night one kill seems to be against the town's interest, since people complain enough as is with one day with no information.

shaft.ed · Post Post #355 (ISO) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:11 pm

Mr. Flay wrote:It's fairly optimal strategy, since Hans is the only power role the Mafia have to worry about killing.

Guardian · Post Post #356 (ISO) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:41 pm

I disagree. If hans doesn't think he is dying he saves the kill, at least night 1. Getting the right lynch is more important than preventing a non-hans n1 kill.

I think hans is a really interesting role.

Lord Gurgi · Post Post #357 (ISO) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:49 pm

Guardian wrote:I think hans is a really interesting role.

<3

Zorblag · Post Post #358 (ISO) » Sun Feb 22, 2009 5:52 pm

To be consistent with what Troll said in this thread Troll will nominate a simple F11 game. Troll thinks it be fun and it would be nice to play it with all experienced players.

Troll also finds the

Ach! Hans! Run!

interesting (while simple) enough to second to run at least once.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

Shanba · Post Post #359 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:07 am

Dun like Ack! Hans! Run!

Not sure what the point of the setup is. Also, I don't like roles that require no skill, and Hans is the epitome of such a role. I reckon this comes from differences in our view of the doctor, though.

Bugs Bunny is neat, and I quite like it, but I'd point out that town need two successful protections in order to get an extra day, which is unlikely.

Also, I don't see why no one seconded my nom for friends and enemies. That's such an awesome setup.

mykonian · Post Post #360 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:46 am

Guardian wrote:I disagree. If hans doesn't think he is dying he saves the kill, at least night 1. Getting the right lynch is more important than preventing a non-hans n1 kill.

I think hans is a really interesting role.

It is an interesting role in this case, as it shouldn't be lynched till the power was used (2-6 is mafia favored, isn't it?). And in case Hans is sure he doesn't get killed the use can be that the fakeclaim is still available.

But if Hans would be killed night one, he kind of lost the game, didn't he? And if he uses it later, how much does he win?

It is not a bad setup, but "hans" doesn't make it more interesting then a 2-7 setup.

farside22 · Post Post #361 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:07 am

I'm taking the comment for Carbon and nixing that idea now. Looks like carbon will be out. Next I saw this with 2 nom's.

Xylthixlm wrote:
2:10 Bugs Bunny
("What's up, doc?")
2 mafia
1 doctor
9 townies

Also fonz's game got a couple of nods and I think looked good:

JK9

Jailkeeper
Tracker
Five townies
Two scum

Any objections?

shaft.ed · Post Post #362 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:23 am

Still like JK9,

I wouldn't play Bugs Bunny, but it doesn't seem inherently broken.

Artem · Post Post #363 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:56 am

I'm proposing a modified version of Dethy:

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Sane Cop
1 Insane Cop
1 Naive Cop
1 Paranoid Cop

The original Dethy formulation has a goon, but favors town. I'm hoping that the role-blocker will tip the scales a little towards the mafia side.

farside22 promised to let me mod it if it gets approved

farside22 · Post Post #364 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:06 pm

Artem wrote:I'm proposing a modified version of Dethy:

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Sane Cop
1 Insane Cop
1 Naive Cop
1 Paranoid Cop

The original Dethy formulation has a goon, but favors town. I'm hoping that the role-blocker will tip the scales a little towards the mafia side.

farside22 promised to let me mod it if it gets approved

Can I assume the cops have no clue if what their sanity is? Also I think 2 vanilla's would be good and 1 more scum but that's me.

Artem · Post Post #365 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:07 pm

Cops don't know their sanity. The game starts with Night 0, where the cops are given one set of investigation results and the mafia may choose to block somebody.

EDIT:

Normally, the day starts with cops revealing their investigation results and trying to clear each other and/or determine their sanities. In the traditional setup, the mafia generally has to fake claim an investigation result in a way that throws a wrench into the town's logic. However, even with optimal fake-claims, the mafia has to survive three days. (The optimal town play is to go with no-lynch until more investigation results are available)

With the modified setup, the mafia now has more freedom.
1) The mafia can block a cop and fake-claim an investigation.
2) The mafia can choose to not block and fake-claim a block.

farside22 · Post Post #366 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:08 pm

Artem wrote:Cops don't know their sanity. The game starts with Night 0, where the cops are given one set of investigation results and the mafia may choose to block somebody.

mafia gets to block and kill? night 0?

Artem · Post Post #367 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:13 pm

No kill on night 0.

EDIT: An example might help:

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... hy/Example

charter · Post Post #368 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:42 pm

I dont know. Whoever claims to be blocked will be confirmed town. Mafia can't claim to be blocked day one because they will auto lose. I believe this is essentially what happens during the normal dethy, someone will start out as confirmed town. Depending on how the investigations go, I believe you could even get TWO confirmed innocents day one. (One the conventional way, and then whoever got blocked)

I haven't figured it out, but that seems like it would make it near impossible for mafia to win.

shaft.ed · Post Post #369 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:51 pm

After some feedback and thought I'd like to repropose:

3 of 5

2 scum
7 town

with three of the following roles:
-Cop
-Doc
-Vanilla Townie & Mafia RB
-Vanilla Townie alone
-Miller

I think the extra wiggle room will provide for more flexibility and creativtiy in scum play and can help balance the normally more town favored 2 v 7 w/possible Doc/Cop set up.

Artem · Post Post #370 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 12:57 pm

charter wrote:
Whoever claims to be blocked will be confirmed town.
Mafia can't claim to be blocked day one because they will auto lose.

Don't think mafia will auto-lose. If mafia chooses to not block and then claims to have been blocked, others will think they are confirmed townie (due to the bolded argument above). Perfect WIFOM.

Also, the mafia may choose to not block and still fake-claim an investigation. The game then reduces to the standard Dethy.

shaft.ed · Post Post #371 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:05 pm

Artem wrote:
charter wrote:
Whoever claims to be blocked will be confirmed town.
Mafia can't claim to be blocked day one because they will auto lose.
Don't think mafia will auto-lose. If mafia chooses to not block and then claims to have been blocked, others will think they are confirmed townie (due to the bolded argument above). Perfect WIFOM.

Also, the mafia may choose to not block and still fake-claim an investigation. The game then reduces to the standard Dethy.

what about a mafia power that enables them to control the readout of one players investigation. I know that's not normal but how would that effect the set up?

Alduskkel · Post Post #372 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:11 pm

Alduskkel wrote:
Alduskkel wrote:How about this?
2 Mafia Goons
1 Even Night Cop
1 Odd Night Doctor
5 Vanilla Townies
Day Start
This setup needs a name.

Also, is it balanced?

shaft.ed · Post Post #373 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:37 pm

Alduskkel wrote:
Alduskkel wrote:
Alduskkel wrote:How about this?
2 Mafia Goons
1 Even Night Cop
1 Odd Night Doctor
5 Vanilla Townies
Day Start
This setup needs a name.

Also, is it balanced?

Alternating C9

charter · Post Post #374 (ISO) » Mon Feb 23, 2009 2:32 pm

Artem wrote:
charter wrote:
Whoever claims to be blocked will be confirmed town.
Mafia can't claim to be blocked day one because they will auto lose.
Don't think mafia will auto-lose. If mafia chooses to not block and then claims to have been blocked, others will think they are confirmed townie (due to the bolded argument above). Perfect WIFOM.

Also, the mafia may choose to not block and still fake-claim an investigation. The game then reduces to the standard Dethy.

Ah, didn't see this in your original post when I read it. I am guessing then that this would reasonably give mafia a slight advantage.

shaft.ed wrote:what about a mafia power that enables them to control the readout of one players investigation. I know that's not normal but how would that effect the set up?

I think at this point it's not even dethy anymore, you couldn't rely on investigations at all, so it would essentially turn into mountainous.