pops 401 wrote:The main cases i see against me are: posting fluff and reading RC using meta.
Just being oblivious to this game in general is, I think, a very fair attack against you pops.
It would be if i was oblivious to this game, but i'm not. I quite know what's going on. If you give me and Huntress and Rishi a quiz, i betcha i'll win. Betchoo a dolla coyote, betchoo a dolla.
RC wrote:
pops 401 wrote:If i wanted to keep from revealing scumtells by active lurking, would i post fluff and game posts at the same time? No, i would post only fluff. No that's not WIFOM.
Why isn't it WIFOM?
The line after it explains, so i wish you would have quoted that too. i'll explain again, it's analagous to "if i wanted to conceal that i've been eating cookies from the jar, i would have washed my face". There's no WIFOM there. You wouldn't not wash your face and show up to your mom and give her a WIFOM spiel about "hey, if i ate out of the cookie jar, wouldn't i wash my face? Think about it...", because you have crumbs all over your face.
In the same way, i wouldn't post content alongside fluff if i wanted to conceal scumtells, that doesn't even accomplish the goal. Fluff alongside content isn't a tell in any county anyway.
RC wrote:
pops 401 wrote:2)Does that have to do with my alignment?
If Jahudo doesn't need anymore than this, I do.
Does it give you any different opinion of bionic? Do you see his criticism of me and not you as hypocritical, given that we've essentially came to the same positions on bionic's defense of Rhinox?
He criticized you when you were being a mule and got into a nuh-uh yah-huh fight about whether his meta thinks Rhinox town. I just misunderstood once, he failed to correct me. I simply misunderstood, you argued that he misrepresented his own intentions, that you don't see this is startling.
RC wrote:
pops 401 wrote:Defending town aligned players is equally important as attacking scum players. Not equally. Close enough though.
I agree with this. pops, which town aligned players are you concerned about defending today?
Chiefly myself, my votecount isn't beautiful right now. Second Rhinox, i put him at even chances at being scum, while you're very scummy. No one else needs defending.
RC wrote:
pops 418 wrote:yes, it was a concept for protecting PRs. And at the time, i thought he was even money, not town.
Then it's your opinion that he is scum and I am town at the moment? I understand your first vote of Rhinox, I understand your switch to me, and I understand your switch back to Rhinox, but I don't understand your switch back to me this latest time. Did I do something recently that struck you the wrong way, or are you just resigned to the fact that I am a better lynch than Rhinox? I'd like this answer as soon as possible.
No. The story of my votes: first voted Rhinox for noobscummy tells. Then voted RC for greater transgressions in meta tells and general tells. Switch back to Rhinox because he claimed vanilla, and i was concerned that on the theory level that should mean autolynch, but then we talked about it and since my Rhinox suspicion went down during the duration of my second vote, i unvoted. So of course, the vote went back to RC, who was scummy in the first place and in general is getting worse and worse.
Right now i think Rhinox is at random chances for being scum, or perhaps ever so slightly below even chances.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
As far as oblivious to the game goes, how about Spyrex refusing to comment on either main wagon nor choose a favorite and vote on it? *points* Come on guys, at least pretend to be looking at everyone equally.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Further being this page as, again, I made my stance clear on both of the wagons again last page...
I'm still, based on what has been discussed, seeing RC or Rhinox as scum and thusly still am not planning on voting for either except to stop a no lynch. However, again, I am not going to spend copious amounts of energy trying to derail this as I see it as ultimately futile.
However, I will make a comment on what you just said:
As far as oblivious to the game goes, how about Spyrex refusing to comment on either main wagon nor choose a favorite and vote on it? *points* Come on guys, at least pretend to be looking at everyone equally.
1.) Implication that I have not commented on either wagon? Check.
2.) Implication that I, in fact, MUST pick between these two in a false dichotomy? Check.
3.) Appeal to the mob mentality? Check.
4.) Pops hung and flipping scum? Still not Check. STILL NOT CHECK. COME ON.
popsofctown wrote:The line after it explains, so i wish you would have quoted that too. i'll explain again, it's analagous to "if i wanted to conceal that i've been eating cookies from the jar, i would have washed my face". There's no WIFOM there. You wouldn't not wash your face and show up to your mom and give her a WIFOM spiel about "hey, if i ate out of the cookie jar, wouldn't i wash my face? Think about it...", because you have crumbs all over your face.
I feel like there's a hole in this analogy. Since you've admitted to fluff posts then the crumbs
are
on your face. And they got there by doing a suspicious thing. Now you're trying to tell us that
because
you are aware of this suspicious thing, it's not a scum tell because otherwise you would have washed your face (dismissed it and stopped fluff posting maybe). But
it is
WIFOM still
because
you're telling us what you would do as scum and if you were scum how could we believe you would tell us the truth? That and eating the cookies is a no no.
@All: I still would like a Rhinox lynch. If we cannot get that I could join the pops wagon because of WIFOM, piggyback voting, and fluff posting.
Maybe we can get a tally of people who could join a smaller wagon because they don't like a larger one?
you totally missed the point in my analogy. I can't get my point across sometimes.
The point i've been trying to make is that if i wanted to substitute fluff for content in an attempt to conceal scumtells, then i wouldn't have posted content. That's not even a substitution.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
I want you to either pick between the two or say you think they are equally bad choices. You've said they're bad choices Spyrex, but I want to know which one you think is or worse or if it's a tie. It's a fair Trichotomy, not a false dichotomy.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
Retraction.. it appears that originally i did say for you to pick one or the other. That's not what i meant to say. I should quit posting during physics, it's very distracting in there. Stick to minesweeper. Anyway, i'm looking for you to choose one or the other or explain why they're equally bad.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
popsofctown wrote:The point i've been trying to make is that if i wanted to substitute fluff for content in an attempt to conceal scumtells, then i wouldn't have posted content. That's not even a substitution.
Why post the fluff though? Isn't it a scumtell not to post content?
It is a scumtell not to eat apples. Pops eat apples and he eats pears. Therefore, because pops eats pears, he is scum.
Do you still not realize how inane the original argument is? Fluff in the absence of content is a scumtell because someone is avoiding game content and trying not to tip his hand. The fluff isn't even the issue. It's the lack of content. Fluff is sometimes used to conceal the lack of content, but that's not even the case here.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
popsofctown wrote:you totally missed the point in my analogy.
Your analogy sucked, the situation was not at all comparable.
Here's a better analogy: let's say you have a third nipple. Some guy comes up to you and says "Hey, dude, you only have two nipples."
You take off your shirt and show him your third nipple. "Look, look at my third nipple," you say.
He points out your other two nipples and says "But you do have two nipples, I was right."
"Yes, I do have two nipples," you interject, "but I also have a third nipple. So your claim that I
only
have two nipples was incorrect."
"That's WIFOM!" he replies. You beat him to death with a shovel.
Retraction.. it appears that originally i did say for you to pick one or the other. That's not what i meant to say. I should quit posting during physics, it's very distracting in there. Stick to minesweeper. Anyway, i'm looking for you to choose one or the other or explain why they're equally bad.
Ok, since my repeated statement of: I think they are both town thusly they would both be bad lynches as the purpose is to lynch scum. Apparently isn't cutting it, I'll dance.
We're going to play the scenario game:
Scenario 1: Either (whichever) is at L-1 w/ 5 minutes before deadline and I am, apparently, the only player on.
In this situation I would lynch whomever
to stop a no lynch
.
Scenario 2: Wagons are on both of them, it is not immediately before deadline.
In this situation I, again, would say that I would much rather lynch you or Rishi but, again, would state I am available for Scenario 1.
Scenario 3: It is a super secret sudden death where only I may vote for one of them and who I vote for is lynched.
This, considering how many times you have asked, MUST be what you are referring to. I would, as it sits now, probably vote for Rhinox slightly over RC. However, again, I would be very vexed at this because I would definitely expect him to flip town (see my repeated I think they are both town).
Of course, this is assuming I couldn't vote for... ohh... you. Which I would. Which I am. Because I think you are scum.
But, seriously, what is this sudden infatuation with my not voting for people I dont find scummy?
i perceived you as making one case and floating above the fray otherwise. But that's not really the case here it seems, actually. If you'd come and said, "Actually this one is really quite worse", then i'd be greatly concerned.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
I try to make these vote counts later at night, but I have no idea how much longer I'll be able to stay awake.
This is the first time I've been seriously sick in several years; I don't miss it.
Everything you say and do matters. People will respond in ways you may never see. May those responses be what you intend.
Moriarty147, can you compare and contrast the two most popular wagons for us?
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
I'm at Mardi Gras right now, this is the first chance I've had to use a computer for more than ten minutes since I got here, I've been consistently somewhere between buzzed and blackout drunk for the past 72 hours at least, my voice is so shot I don't think I'll be able to speak for two weeks, and tomorrow is the mother f-ing big day, and
then
I get in a car for a 22 hour drive home, but I'll get home early Thursday morning with hopefully enough brain cells left to read and contribute to this shindig before the deadline hits. So, see y'all then.
bionic 424 wrote:I am making a formal request for RC to claim in his next post. Any claim made close to deadline won't leave any time for reasonable consideration if he claims anything other than vanilla.
I'm giving myself one more post. I need to hear from Rishi and Huntress again. As I believe I know where username, Rhinox, and pops' votes are going.
---
Jahudo 430 wrote:@All: I still would like a Rhinox lynch. If we cannot get that I could join the pops wagon because of WIFOM, piggyback voting, and fluff posting.
Maybe we can get a tally of people who could join a smaller wagon because they don't like a larger one?
This. At the risk of sounding opportunist, I think a pops lynch is comparable to a Rhinox lynch, although I'd prefer the latter.
Here are three solid reasons why pops is a better lynch than me:
1)
Flighty material that interferes negatively with the game
pops 425 wrote:It would be if i was oblivious to this game, but i'm not.
Spyrex 119 wrote:We've got one other major suspect. One that, at this point, I'm happy to vote. Come on down...
Pops, why do you keep hitting me??
Vote: Popsofctown
pops 128 - Addresses Huntress
pops 130 - Vote Rhinox
pops 132 - Riddling and Korts
pops 139 - Riddles
pops 141 - Serious about Riddles
pops 142 - Hurry up with the Riddles
pops 143 - Please! Riddles!
pops 145 - Mod you're such a card!
pops 148 - Korts again... also Rhinox
Spyrex 149 wrote:On the flipside, we've got pops who has managed not to mention me by name (yet referenced my call on fluff AND my note of his poking on Korts) - whereas earlier interactions with people holding supsicion was followed up directly.
pops 172 wrote:When did spyrex ask me a question, and what question was it? Maybe i thought it was rhetorical.
Not that fluff in and of itself is often that bad to me, the problem is when a vote against you doesn't get your attention... when you claim you thought the post was rhetorical. This is why I originally suspected pops, this behavior seems careless. Either he's not paying enough attention to the game or he delibrately ignored Spy. Not comfortable with either position.
2)
Questionable voting patterns/reasons
pops 82 wrote:I've decided to read [RC] mostly on meta, because when i read him just like everyone else he consistently slips by, so i might be using poorly explained reasons some this game, i'll try to be glass man like Korts as much as possible though.
pops 89 wrote:The thing about me pre-emptively saying my reasoning against RC might be poorly explained is more or less fair. I probably shouldn't say something like that, but instead just explain on each instance the meta-significance of why i might find him suspicious, try to explain how it rel.ates to my other game with him, etc.
pops 104 wrote:The first bold is me saying [RC] didn't answer his questions as curtly as he could. It's suspicious, especially in terms of his meta.
To his credit, he says that he may have been a little too forthcoming with these statements, but that doesn't stop him from continuing to use them!
pops 162 wrote:Sometimes [RC]'s longwinded, and sometimes he can't get to the point faster (usually when he's not lying about something it would seem to me. I haven't played with him as town, but sometimes he's lying about something and sometimes he's addressing points that aren't lies. In retrospect those are less longwinded). The quote sort of represents the game as a whole really.
...
There you go. If it's a legit tell, now he's acutely aware of it and it won't happen again. The guy's nearly unreadable and you take what little scraps i can put together away from me. It makes me very very emo kid.
pops 185 wrote:I have another meta-rooted tell for RC, which may or may not be valid.
pops 213 wrote:i had an argument with RC about alignment-based-ad hom.
But basically, Rhinox is adhomming himself.
pops 217 wrote:I think RC is trying to tie himself to me actually. Defending me, but not addressing any accusations i make against him
How is one supposed to argue a meta-read on themselves in a way that isn't completely drenched in WIFOM? How am I defending you and suspecting you at the same time?
pops 276 wrote:Rhinox, you seem less scummy to me right now. But i can't clearly decide if i feel that way because of your massive AtE or because of actual evidence you've shown. So now i have to lynch you. Do you see how that lurks?
You can't decide if I'm scum because you can't read me, so you vote me. You can't decide if Rhinox is scum because of his appeals, so you end up voting him.
Both positions come off as weak to me.
pops 309 wrote:In the past few pages, i've been getting less gut feeling about Rhinox being scum. Is it because she's actually town, or because she appeals to emotion every other post? I can't say which. So i would think i need to err on the side of uncharitable judgments, since he's the one who's using appeal-to-emotion for his defense.
pops 309 wrote:If i don't read RC based on some kind of meta, i won't be able to read him at all.
pops 309 wrote:Bandwagon voting? I really think RC is scum. This looks like RC scum. I don't know how i can explain this better.
pops 348 wrote: no one seems to understand my special treatment of RC. He's like K7, in a different way, evidence shows that i can't read him. In this case it's not because he won't post, it's because he's too good at this game. Since i became 99% sure of the incorrect result one time when he was scum, it's safe to say that my general scumhunting analysis of him is useless. The only hope i could have is a meta analysis.
Just constantly harping back to his notion that he cannot read me, so this excuses his vote on me if it's wrong.
pops 370 wrote:But if i couldn't read [RC] at all, i would certainly lynch [RC] immediately.
pops 381 wrote:RC has failed the only barometer i have for him.
Which is, of course, why you shouldn't bother to consider the fact that I'm town, that your meta-read is incomplete and full of holes, and that the little interaction between players besides me and Rhinox has usually been about one of us.
pops 383 wrote:i don't think Rhinox is that scummy though. Not as of now.
Of course, that could very well be the AtE clouding my judgment.
And how is this different from the position you had in post 276? You still can't read Rhinox.
pops 401 wrote:As for the meta-treatment of RC, also still don't get how that's a scumtell. Ok, actually i sort of get this one. I can see how it could appear that i'm cloaking my reasons for voting another player. But i didn't do that. I explained to you guys 15 times why i'm voting RC and why it's a scumtell in general.
It was a bad reason then and it's a bad reason now.
What all this boils down to: pops can't read me or Rhinox, and pops thinks that if I was scum I would talk about an SK. Period.
3)
Bandwagoning, bandwagoning, bandwagoning.
pops 185 wrote:In other news, i'm about as sure about Rhinox being scum right now as i am about RC.
pops 186 wrote:either way, that tell is good, so
unvote, vote RedCoyote
Switches votes after bionic moves from Rhinox to me with the statement that he wants to see either of us lynched.
pops 348 wrote:So, since CFriot's inquistions are all the input i got about night strat,
unvote, vote: Rhinox
username and CF Riot say that it's tough to defend Rhinox after his premature claim, and pops follows suit.
pops 370 wrote:I'm voting Rhinox right now though, because of the vanilla claim. If he's town you're next. If he's scum, I'd be surprised at your accuracy enough to at least wait.
If Rhinox is town then I am scum.
pops 381 wrote:As i said earlier, the lynching of Rhinox is a theory point that i was open to discussion with. BC has a convincing explanation of how i still need to feel Rhinox is somewhat scummy to justify his lynch. Right now, i'm not sure he is.
unvote, vote RC
bionic does indeed help you come to decisions. You loved his case against me enough to vote me the first time (and, oh yeah, the metatells) and you love his explanation enough to vote me again.
---
pops 431 wrote:The point i've been trying to make is that if i wanted to substitute fluff for content in an attempt to conceal scumtells, then i wouldn't have posted content. That's not even a substitution.
So then you think that it's less scummy to post all fluff than it is to mix fluff and content? Why?
pops 426 wrote:As far as oblivious to the game goes, how about Spyrex refusing to comment on either main wagon nor choose a favorite and vote on it? *points* Come on guys, at least pretend to be looking at everyone equally.
Why is Spy more guilty of this than Moriarty? I mean, why do you wait until post 441 to bring his name up? I think both players have made their intentions clear as to who they would prefer between me and Rhinox.
pops 425 wrote:So of course, the vote went back to RC, who was scummy in the first place and in general is getting worse and worse.
You mean I'm getting worse than your one and a half (I'd be hard pressed to even call it a half since I made all of 2 posts? 3 posts?) game meta-read in which both games I was scum? Worse than your claim that you have to lynch me because you can't read me?
I didn't think you could get much worse than that. This is complete filler.
---
One more thing, to straighten this bionic thing once and for all. If bionic thinks he has me pegged another way, so be it. Here is my interpretation of events as simple as I can make it:
If it isn't entrapment, why didn't bionic merely state that I was incorrect and that he didn't arrive to any conclusions on Rhinox in post 344 or even 371?
---
So then all that's left to do is
vote: popsofctown
.
Mainly I want to hear from Rishi and Huntress. I'm pretty sure I know which way everyone else is going to go today barring anything major. I'll check back with the thread and claim tomorrow if nothing has changed.
@Rhinox - i was inquiring everyone who was not on either major wagon. I skipped you, Rhinox, for obvious reasons.
I pay less attention to Moriarty because she spends less time pushing crap on me. Sorry. Sue me.
RedCoyote wrote:
Jahudo 430 wrote:@All: I still would like a Rhinox lynch. If we cannot get that I could join the pops wagon because of WIFOM, piggyback voting, and fluff posting.
Maybe we can get a tally of people who could join a smaller wagon because they don't like a larger one?
Actually we could have everyone say what persons they would like to see lynched and we could do a matrix. I'll start, i'm only willing to see RC lynched.
RC wrote:
This. At the risk of sounding opportunist, I think a pops lynch is comparable to a Rhinox lynch, although I'd prefer the latter.
Here are three solid reasons why pops is a better lynch than me:
1)
Flighty material that interferes negatively with the game
Oh my flipping gosh. Lighten up. Yeah, sure, my two line riddles totally threw off everyone's focus on the game, making it functionally unreadable.
RC wrote:
pops 425 wrote:It would be if i was oblivious to this game, but i'm not.
Spyrex 119 wrote:We've got one other major suspect. One that, at this point, I'm happy to vote. Come on down...
Pops, why do you keep hitting me??
Vote: Popsofctown
I dunno why you quoted these. Spyrex votes pops you should too?
RC wrote:
pops 128 - Addresses Huntress
pops 130 - Vote Rhinox
pops 132 - Riddling and Korts
pops 139 - Riddles
pops 141 - Serious about Riddles
pops 142 - Hurry up with the Riddles
pops 143 - Please! Riddles!
pops 145 - Mod you're such a card!
pops 148 - Korts again... also Rhinox
spin it however you want RC. You take an objective look at this thread and my content matches Rishi, Huntress, and anyone.
RC wrote:
Spyrex 149 wrote:On the flipside, we've got pops who has managed not to mention me by name (yet referenced my call on fluff AND my note of his poking on Korts) - whereas earlier interactions with people holding supsicion was followed up directly.
pops 172 wrote:When did spyrex ask me a question, and what question was it? Maybe i thought it was rhetorical.
Not that fluff in and of itself is often that bad to me, the problem is when a vote against you doesn't get your attention... when you claim you thought the post was rhetorical. This is why I originally suspected pops, this behavior seems careless. Either he's not paying enough attention to the game or he delibrately ignored Spy. Not comfortable with either position.
172 isn't a response to 149, the way you quoted makes me think you're repainting history.
It's hard to follow games with massive walls in them. Whatever question Spyrex was complaining about, he never could pick it out when i said i was ultimately unsure which one it was. So if it was some obvious sore thumb right before one of my posts, he didn't care to point it out himself.
RC wrote:
2)
Questionable voting patterns/reasons
pops 82 wrote:I've decided to read [RC] mostly on meta, because when i read him just like everyone else he consistently slips by, so i might be using poorly explained reasons some this game, i'll try to be glass man like Korts as much as possible though.
pops 89 wrote:The thing about me pre-emptively saying my reasoning against RC might be poorly explained is more or less fair. I probably shouldn't say something like that, but instead just explain on each instance the meta-significance of why i might find him suspicious, try to explain how it rel.ates to my other game with him, etc.
pops 104 wrote:The first bold is me saying [RC] didn't answer his questions as curtly as he could. It's suspicious, especially in terms of his meta.
To his credit, he says that he may have been a little too forthcoming with these statements, but that doesn't stop him from continuing to use them!
Let's see how questionable it is when you flip RC. I'm beginning to think i know what i'm doing.
RC wrote:
pops 162 wrote:Sometimes [RC]'s longwinded, and sometimes he can't get to the point faster (usually when he's not lying about something it would seem to me. I haven't played with him as town, but sometimes he's lying about something and sometimes he's addressing points that aren't lies. In retrospect those are less longwinded). The quote sort of represents the game as a whole really.
...
There you go. If it's a legit tell, now he's acutely aware of it and it won't happen again. The guy's nearly unreadable and you take what little scraps i can put together away from me. It makes me very very emo kid.
pops 185 wrote:I have another meta-rooted tell for RC, which may or may not be valid.
pops 213 wrote:i had an argument with RC about alignment-based-ad hom.
But basically, Rhinox is adhomming himself.
pops 217 wrote:I think RC is trying to tie himself to me actually. Defending me, but not addressing any accusations i make against him
How is one supposed to argue a meta-read on themselves in a way that isn't completely drenched in WIFOM?
How am I defending you and suspecting you at the same time?
I dunno how you defend youreslf from a meta-read. You figure it out.
The second sentence i'd like to bold. Total BS. I say you're tying yourself to me, and then from that point on you start screaming that i'm suspicious and start acting like you've been saying that the whole thread. When you hadn't, you'd rarely if ever expressed that. That's one of the things that makes me think your scum.
The bolded statement is massive bantha pudu. A statement consistent to what's happened in this thread is "how could i be defending you if later on when i get scared about it i act suspicious of you?".
Rhinox wrote:
pops 276 wrote:Rhinox, you seem less scummy to me right now. But i can't clearly decide if i feel that way because of your massive AtE or because of actual evidence you've shown. So now i have to lynch you. Do you see how that lurks?
You can't decide if I'm scum because you can't read me, so you vote me. You can't decide if Rhinox is scum because of his appeals, so you end up voting him.
It's suspicious to make oneself unreadable. So in a sense, i can't read him, but that itself becomes a sole tipping tell: this person has made themselves unreadable to me, this is scummy.
My position has moved since.
RC wrote:
Both positions come off as weak to me.
pops 309 wrote:In the past few pages, i've been getting less gut feeling about Rhinox being scum. Is it because she's actually town, or because she appeals to emotion every other post? I can't say which. So i would think i need to err on the side of uncharitable judgments, since he's the one who's using appeal-to-emotion for his defense.
pops 309 wrote:If i don't read RC based on some kind of meta, i won't be able to read him at all.
pops 309 wrote:Bandwagon voting? I really think RC is scum. This looks like RC scum. I don't know how i can explain this better.
pops 348 wrote: no one seems to understand my special treatment of RC. He's like K7, in a different way, evidence shows that i can't read him. In this case it's not because he won't post, it's because he's too good at this game. Since i became 99% sure of the incorrect result one time when he was scum, it's safe to say that my general scumhunting analysis of him is useless. The only hope i could have is a meta analysis.
Just constantly harping back to his notion that he cannot read me, so this excuses his vote on me if it's wrong.
I don't want to excuse anything.
[quote="RC]
pops 370 wrote:But if i couldn't read [RC] at all, i would certainly lynch [RC] immediately.
pops 381 wrote:RC has failed the only barometer i have for him.
Which is, of course, why you shouldn't
bother to consider the fact that I'm town
, that your meta-read is incomplete and full of holes, and that the little interaction between players besides me and Rhinox has usually been about one of us. [/quote]
He says stuff like the bold when he's scum.
I think my meta is probably right. Like, i put it at about 75% chance of being a positive tool. The chance it's no good is there, but i'm gonna go with what's probable here.
Not being able to play with children other than Rhinox is not an excuse for playing rough with Rhinox and playing rough on the occasion we let you play with the other children. You know it'd be horrendous if they caught the mono, that's why we keep you two in.
RC wrote:
pops 383 wrote:i don't think Rhinox is that scummy though. Not as of now.
Of course, that could very well be the AtE clouding my judgment.
And how is this different from the position you had in post 276? You still can't read Rhinox.
Rhinox's AtE makes me waffly. I hate it, i dunno what to do with it.
Right now, i've decided it's so consistent and so much looks like standard consistent VI that i'm going to put him in my town box, though i hold reservations about him being the one who initiated the clouding of my judgment.
RC wrote:
pops 401 wrote:As for the meta-treatment of RC, also still don't get how that's a scumtell. Ok, actually i sort of get this one. I can see how it could appear that i'm cloaking my reasons for voting another player. But i didn't do that. I explained to you guys 15 times why i'm voting RC and why it's a scumtell in general.
It was a bad reason then and it's a bad reason now.
I can use repetition fallacy too RC!
Pops is town, pops is town, pops is town, RC is scum, RC is scum, RC is scum, RC is scum, pops' jokes are funny, pops' jokes are funny, pops' jokes are funny, pops' jokes are funny, pops' jokes are funny.
RC wrote:
What all this boils down to: pops can't read me or Rhinox, and pops thinks that if I was scum I would talk about an SK. Period.
I can strawman too RC! RC thinks i'm scum because I think he's scum.
You would talk about an SK if you were scum, you would answer simple questions with drawn out answers if you were scum, you would ignore me for half the thread and then act like you were already suspicious of me if you were scum.
Look, if there were a 25% chance some player was scum, and a 75% chance they were even chances for being scum and you'd never get to see any tells... isn't that an obvious lynching situation? that's what i have on my hands here.
RC wrote:
3)
Bandwagoning, bandwagoning, bandwagoning.
pops 185 wrote:In other news, i'm about as sure about Rhinox being scum right now as i am about RC.
pops 186 wrote:either way, that tell is good, so
unvote, vote RedCoyote
Switches votes after bionic moves from Rhinox to me with the statement that he wants to see either of us lynched.
pops 348 wrote:So, since CFriot's inquistions are all the input i got about night strat,
unvote, vote: Rhinox
username and CF Riot say that it's tough to defend Rhinox after his premature claim, and pops follows suit.
Bandwagonning on theory beliefs is not bandwagoning. It's learning. I tried to figure out on what our policy should be on an early vanilla claim, and my vote moved around until i understood.
RC wrote:
pops 370 wrote:I'm voting Rhinox right now though, because of the vanilla claim. If he's town you're next. If he's scum, I'd be surprised at your accuracy enough to at least wait.
If Rhinox is town then I am scum.
Probably should have explained that post better, but for the second time, Rhinox would have only been a policy lynch, so i would have wanted to lynch you to actually get someone i was suspicious of. I'd only reconsider that if i got some contrary evidence, like a successful D1 scumhunt.
RC wrote:
pops 381 wrote:As i said earlier, the lynching of Rhinox is a theory point that i was open to discussion with. BC has a convincing explanation of how i still need to feel Rhinox is somewhat scummy to justify his lynch. Right now, i'm not sure he is.
unvote, vote RC
bionic does indeed help you come to decisions. You loved his case against me enough to vote me the first time (and, oh yeah, the metatells) and you love his explanation enough to vote me again.
BC is smart. He's good people.
I see absolutely nothing wrong with gleaning theory info from BC. Scumhunting target plagiarism is more questionable, but i think i clearly had much of my own ideas involved in voting you and was not just me-tooing.
---
RC wrote:
pops 431 wrote:The point i've been trying to make is that if i wanted to substitute fluff for content in an attempt to conceal scumtells, then i wouldn't have posted content. That's not even a substitution.
So then you think that it's less scummy to post all fluff than it is to mix fluff and content? Why?
Strike that, reverse it. It's not scummy to mix fluff and content, it's scummy to post all fluff.
Posting fluff isn't a scumtell. Failing to post content is a scumtell.
RC wrote:
pops 426 wrote:As far as oblivious to the game goes, how about Spyrex refusing to comment on either main wagon nor choose a favorite and vote on it? *points* Come on guys, at least pretend to be looking at everyone equally.
Why is Spy more guilty of this than Moriarty? I mean, why do you wait until post 441 to bring his name up? I think both players have made their intentions clear as to who they would prefer between me and Rhinox.
I do players one at a time, haven't i said that already? Spyrex declared that he would not select one wagon nor the other, and was done posting stuff for the day. I was looking for a statement that both wagons were equal before he quit in such a way. Moriarty made no vow to quit, that's why she got paid attention to second. Besides outofsightoutofmind.
RC wrote:
pops 425 wrote:So of course, the vote went back to RC, who was scummy in the first place and in general is getting worse and worse.
You mean I'm getting worse than your one and a half (I'd be hard pressed to even call it a half since I made all of 2 posts? 3 posts?) game meta-read in which both games I was scum? Worse than your claim that you have to lynch me because you can't read me?
I didn't think you could get much worse than that. This is complete filler.
OMGUS doesn't help. Cos' i really think you liked your own case on Rhinox better, but i think i've stepped on your tail.
So yeah, you're getting worse.
---
RC wrote:
One more thing, to straighten this bionic thing once and for all. If bionic thinks he has me pegged another way, so be it. Here is my interpretation of events as simple as I can make it:
If it isn't entrapment, why didn't bionic merely state that I was incorrect and that he didn't arrive to any conclusions on Rhinox in post 344 or even 371?
quoting since i'm quoting this whole post, but i dont think this bit is my business.
---
RC wrote:
So then all that's left to do is
vote: popsofctown
.
I ohmygod suck a lot more as Rhinox's wagon becomes unpopular, don't i.
RC wrote:
Mainly I want to hear from Rishi and Huntress. I'm pretty sure I know which way everyone else is going to go today barring anything major. I'll check back with the thread and claim tomorrow if nothing has changed.
I'd say we ought to have Rishi Htress feedback before RC's claim, if we can manage. I mean, if i am going to be the lynch for the day after all, there's no sense in RC having a claim out.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
