Medieval Mafia - Game Over

[Yosarian2]

One of you and Yos is scum.

Bad DGB.

I mean, KMD is probably scum, but not because of that horry old "any time a townie gets lynched there is one scum on his wagon" logic, which isn't actually reliably true and is even less useful.

[Yosarian2]

Meh. I played with him a lot of times in person at starkadium, and everything in this game that you hate about him (being quiet a lot of the time, using long stories and extended metaphores to explain himself, the joking tone, ect) are really pretty standard parts of his playstyle. Meh. He's generally not easy to read, and I realize how bad I'll come out looking here if I turn out to have been wrong about him, but I just don't see any good reason to think he's scum.

Comments on the claim, please?

No real comments on his claim. There's no real way to verify it or disprove it, unless we lynch someone and see "KMD, scum, miller maker" in their death post. It would be an odd role, certanly; it dosn't really change my opinion of him either way.

[Xylthixlm]

One of you and Yos is scum.

Bad DGB.

I mean, KMD is probably scum, but not because of that horry old "any time a townie gets lynched there is one scum on his wagon" logic, which isn't actually reliably true and is even less useful.

Yosarian2 speaks truth.

[populartajo]

One of you and Yos is scum.

Bad DGB.

I mean, KMD is probably scum, but not because of that horry old "any time a townie gets lynched there is one scum on his wagon" logic, which isn't actually reliably true and is even less useful.

What? Do you mean that no scum was on the perfect-for-scum wagon against easy-target-look-at-me-i-m-scummy qwints?
Show us why KMD is prob scum then.
Also I love how scotmany has this fixated love on me. At this point its more probable to think that Im town than scum but whatever....
Also love how KMD keeps the vote on me after he comments on stark fakeclaim.
About stark, Im willing to hammer. I think there are better options but I cant say that I hate his lynch. I just dont want to end the day with KMD owing us a lot of things, like my case for example.

[Xylthixlm]

Meh. I played with him a lot of times in person at starkadium, and everything in this game that you hate about him (being quiet a lot of the time, using long stories and extended metaphores to explain himself, the joking tone, ect) are really pretty standard parts of his playstyle. Meh. He's generally not easy to read, and I realize how bad I'll come out looking here if I turn out to have been wrong about him, but I just don't see any good reason to think he's scum.

Comments on the claim, please?

No real comments on his claim. There's no real way to verify it or disprove it, unless we lynch someone and see "KMD, scum, miller maker" in their death post. It would be an odd role, certanly; it dosn't really change my opinion of him either way.

It's not that odd a role. It even has a wiki entry: framer.

[scotmany12]

Meh. I played with him a lot of times in person at starkadium, and everything in this game that you hate about him (being quiet a lot of the time, using long stories and extended metaphores to explain himself, the joking tone, ect) are really pretty standard parts of his playstyle. Meh. He's generally not easy to read, and I realize how bad I'll come out looking here if I turn out to have been wrong about him, but I just don't see any good reason to think he's scum.

Comments on the claim, please?

No real comments on his claim. There's no real way to verify it or disprove it, unless we lynch someone and see "KMD, scum, miller maker" in their death post. It would be an odd role, certanly; it dosn't really change my opinion of him either way.

It's not that odd a role. It even has a wiki entry: framer.

I think he meant that stark's role would be an odd role.

[scotmany12]

Also I love how scotmany has this fixated love on me. At this point its more probable to think that Im town than scum but whatever....

I love how you constantly refer to yourself as obvtown instead of defending yourself against what I said about you. Or is your only defense saying that you are obvtown?

[Xylthixlm]

The big difference being that the posts stark has made give me a good vibe, and the both stark wagon we had yesterday and the one we have today both seemed based on horrible reasoning.

Please explain in excruciating detail exactly what it was in stark's posts that gave you such a warm feeling.

Meh. I played with him a lot of times in person at starkadium, and everything in this game that you hate about him (being quiet a lot of the time, using long stories and extended metaphores to explain himself, the joking tone, ect) are really pretty standard parts of his playstyle. Meh. He's generally not easy to read, and I realize how bad I'll come out looking here if I turn out to have been wrong about him, but I just don't see any good reason to think he's scum.

Please place stark's normal playstyle on this diagram:

[populartajo]

Also I love how scotmany has this fixated love on me. At this point its more probable to think that Im town than scum but whatever....

I love how you constantly refer to yourself as obvtown instead of defending yourself against what I said about you. Or is your only defense saying that you are obvtown?

My defense is READ MY POSTS MOARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR.
Then you'd realize what Im talking about.

[Yosarian2]

What? Do you mean that no scum was on the perfect-for-scum wagon against easy-target-look-at-me-i-m-scummy qwints?

I have no idea. Sometimes when a bunch of pro-town people are wagoning some other pro-town person, the scum just stay the hell out of the way. I've seen townies get lynched with no scum on the wagon before, especally when they're holding a giant "look at me I'm scummy sign". And of course, qwints wasn't actually lynched, so there was actually less then a majority voting him.

Now, it's possible there was scum on the wagon, likely even, but any argument that starts with a bad assumption (like "lets assume there was a scum on that wagon") and then follows it up with a series of other assumptions (like "and let's assume that person A, B, C, D, and E are all town") is a crap argument.

Show us why KMD is prob scum then.

It's mostly his behavior today. His case against Xyl was weak, but he stuck to it despite a really strong claim made by Xyl and backed up by another player. He then followed it up by attacking the two people who were attacking him, for no reason other then OMGUS. And I really hate how he just bought into DGB's bad case there, she just said "Either you or Yos is scum, which is it?" and rather then question her flawed logic or anything, he just accepted her premise, waved his arms and said "It's not me!"

[Yosarian2]

Meh. I played with him a lot of times in person at starkadium, and everything in this game that you hate about him (being quiet a lot of the time, using long stories and extended metaphores to explain himself, the joking tone, ect) are really pretty standard parts of his playstyle. Meh. He's generally not easy to read, and I realize how bad I'll come out looking here if I turn out to have been wrong about him, but I just don't see any good reason to think he's scum.

Comments on the claim, please?

No real comments on his claim. There's no real way to verify it or disprove it, unless we lynch someone and see "KMD, scum, miller maker" in their death post. It would be an odd role, certanly; it dosn't really change my opinion of him either way.

It's not that odd a role. It even has a wiki entry: framer.

Framer's not that odd. Framer immune, though, would be really strange.

[Yosarian2]

Edit by way of post: just to make it clear; "really strange" as in "I've never seen it before." Which dosn't actually make it all that unlikely, considering the game and the mod.

[populartajo]

Either Yos is manipualting me like shit or he is telling the truth. It can be both.

[Yosarian2]

The big difference being that the posts stark has made give me a good vibe, and the both stark wagon we had yesterday and the one we have today both seemed based on horrible reasoning.

Please explain in excruciating detail exactly what it was in stark's posts that gave you such a warm feeling.

Meh. I played with him a lot of times in person at starkadium, and everything in this game that you hate about him (being quiet a lot of the time, using long stories and extended metaphores to explain himself, the joking tone, ect) are really pretty standard parts of his playstyle. Meh. He's generally not easy to read, and I realize how bad I'll come out looking here if I turn out to have been wrong about him, but I just don't see any good reason to think he's scum.

Please place stark's normal playstyle on this diagram:

Why do you have "good players" only in the interlap between "easy to read" and "useful"? Good town players have to be useful, but if someone is useful but very hard to read, that dosn't make him "not a good player."

Anyway, in face to face play, he was a very effective player, although I several times made the mistake of mislynching him while he was town for being quiet.

[Xylthixlm]

s/Good Players/Good Town Players/

[Tarhalindur]

Here's a good idea of why I find scotmany's play early today scummy.

I'm a daycop-vigilante-recruiting mason.

Actually, no, I'm not.

^ This is obvtown.

Nice WIFOM.

WIFOM, maybe you should explain to all of us why he is town.

I have reason to believe his role claim. Ask no more.

You mean the roleclaim that he said was a joke? Like in this post.

The problem with the qwints wagon is that qwints is town.

Wait, what?

I'm a daycop-vigilante-recruiting mason.

Actually, no, I'm not. But my gut says qwints is town.

^ This is what a townie making a joke looks like.

Seriously DGB? You do not see how this is WIFOM? And here I though you were somewhat decent at this game.

It's not WIFOM. I can read Xyl's mind, and you can't.

Since you seem to be so adamant about defending Xyl from his blatant WIFOM, maybe you should explain to all of us why he is town.

Part 1: Trying to use Xyl's breadcrumbs as evidence that he was trying to WIFOM, despite people backing up what Xyl was saying. Could be scot-town really not realizing that Xyl's "joke claim" was in fact true enough that people were recognizing the truth, but I think that Scot-scum trying to paint doubt on a very strong role is more likely.

Actually I changed my mind. I'd rather be a daycop-vigilante-recruiting mason-double voter.

Vote x2: stark

Something tells me that this is a pretty good sign that we should be lynching stark today.

Or tonight. Either way works for me.

Vote: stark

Why? Just because xyl said so? It's not like double voting confirms xyl as town. Why are you so quick to follow xyl?

Also, xyl, stop kidding around and making jokes and shit. Obviously, you are a double voter, at least for today. But don't keep saying shit like you are a dycop-vig, recruiting mason.

Again, trying to paint suspicion on Xyl when I was signaling that I had reason to believe his claim.

DGB is pretty much town sam.

xyl, what is the benefit of having the masons not say who they are, as they are unconfirmed.

Fish fish fish moar harder plox!

I don't like these posts one bit.

[Tarhalindur]

Day 1 Scummy Camn posts:

Wow, guys. You all come out pretty strong.

Obviously, I

VOTE KMD4390

WHy? flawed gambits + flawed scum-dar = town liability.

Plus, in an off-topic way, I would like to mention that I am revisiting Pink Floyd's early work. I think I like it better when Gilmour started playing Lead.. though I am sure there are some Syd Barrett purists here that will defy me.

Would be far more damning if posted out of the random-vote stage, but I still associate this kind of post with IIoA'ing scum.

I remember Cam Neely!
Just from the name, though... I never was into him... He was on some EASTERN conference team, wasn't he?
I live out west.

But I remember the name.

Again, severely off-topic post. Reminds me of some of Vi's posts in Mafia 87, actually.

I tend to agree with DGB, that dayvig scum seems unlikely.. .
Plus, if he actually lets us direct his kill. . it makes me like him.
Setting up his lynch in advance only guarantees at least one dead townie.

If he is scum, and we tell him to kill someone and then we kill him, obviously he will only kill a townie.
If he is town and we do the same, then he dies as town.

Thus... I would be against a lynch on principle only.

For some reason, you believe there is no way, if he was scum, that he would kill a fellow scum if we told him to do so. Why is that?

Not he knew we were simply going to policy-lynch him directly thereafter. Where would the percentage be?

And no, I don't think D1 is for lynching scum.
As far as I can tell, it is for lynching the most annoying player, regardless of alignment...

Don't like this attitude towards the D1 lynch.

Camn starts getting far more pro-town after these posts. After a better review, he's more of a neutral read than I gave him credit for initially (play makes better sense as town, neutral, or scum who knows there's a second faction than member of only Mafia).

[scotmany12]

Here's a good idea of why I find scotmany's play early today scummy.

I'm a daycop-vigilante-recruiting mason.

Actually, no, I'm not.

^ This is obvtown.

Nice WIFOM.

WIFOM, maybe you should explain to all of us why he is town.

I have reason to believe his role claim. Ask no more.

You mean the roleclaim that he said was a joke? Like in this post.

The problem with the qwints wagon is that qwints is town.

Wait, what?

I'm a daycop-vigilante-recruiting mason.

Actually, no, I'm not. But my gut says qwints is town.

^ This is what a townie making a joke looks like.

Seriously DGB? You do not see how this is WIFOM? And here I though you were somewhat decent at this game.

It's not WIFOM. I can read Xyl's mind, and you can't.

Since you seem to be so adamant about defending Xyl from his blatant WIFOM, maybe you should explain to all of us why he is town.

Part 1: Trying to use Xyl's breadcrumbs as evidence that he was trying to WIFOM, despite people backing up what Xyl was saying. Could be scot-town really not realizing that Xyl's "joke claim" was in fact true enough that people were recognizing the truth, but I think that Scot-scum trying to paint doubt on a very strong role is more likely.

It was wifom. I will still stand by that. Earlier he claimed it to be a joke. You expect me to not be be skeptic about something someone claimed to be a joke, and then decided to say it was true?

Actually I changed my mind. I'd rather be a daycop-vigilante-recruiting mason-double voter.

Vote x2: stark

Something tells me that this is a pretty good sign that we should be lynching stark today.

Or tonight. Either way works for me.

Vote: stark

Why? Just because xyl said so? It's not like double voting confirms xyl as town. Why are you so quick to follow xyl?

Also, xyl, stop kidding around and making jokes and shit. Obviously, you are a double voter, at least for today. But don't keep saying shit like you are a dycop-vig, recruiting mason.

Again, trying to paint suspicion on Xyl when I was signaling that I had reason to believe his claim.

Yeah, and you could have been scum with xyl. Really, what makes you believe that I would believe you without having any doubt.

DGB is pretty much town sam.

xyl, what is the benefit of having the masons not say who they are, as they are unconfirmed.

Fish fish fish moar harder plox!

I don't like these posts one bit.

I'm under the impression that the masons only got a kill night 1. If that is true, then I really don't see any benefit in keeping unconfirmed masons hidden. Your case is weak.

[Xylthixlm]

The masons get a kill every night from here until when they're all dead.

[scotmany12]

The masons get a kill every night from here until when they're all dead.

Ok, I understand. I misread your original claim and thought they only had a kill last night. They should not come out then.

[Yosarian2]

The masons get a kill every night from here until when they're all dead.

In that case; we don't want to know who the masons are now, but if they start falling dead, then we're going to need to know who they are; because if one of the maons you picked is scum, if he kills off the rest of the masons, then the scum would get an extra free kill, right?

[Xylthixlm]

The masons get a kill every night from here until when they're all dead.

In that case; we don't want to know who the masons are now, but if they start falling dead, then we're going to need to know who they are; because if one of the maons you picked is scum, if he kills off the rest of the masons, then the scum would get an extra free kill, right?

If me and all but two of the masons are dead, the remaining masons should probably claim, yes.

[Xylthixlm]

This diagram should clarify things:

[camn]

God I love those diagrams....

On another point:
Yay! Finally some real cases against me!

Scum like "short-ish" days too.

So do I. Especially Day 1. Just short-ISH, though.

Not a real complete scumtell, but there is a good chance scum went after Zwet.

Actually, it looks like a day-vig went after Zwet....

You didn't believe him. See above. Why didn't you vote him?

Zwet was ALREADY a proven liar at that point. Why would I believe him? But me not believing did not equal me thinking he should hang. IIRC, DGB was throwing around mason softclaims around then, too... so I stayed away.

You admit you have no case and yet you have a problem with Scot calling it mindless.

No.
I admitted I had not STATED a case, so I question how scot could have had an opinion on it at all.

Is wanting to replace out really the reason you saw him as scummy?

Yes. Battle Mage beat me as scum once using replacing out as his 'strategy'. As you know, I have a long memory.

You aren't pushing his lynch? What are you doing then?

It is called pressure. I don't want lurkers to Hang.. I want them to PLAY MAFIA. But they need to know I am WILLING to see them hang.

You were trying to pick a fight with him? Why is that vote worthy?

You should get out on the playground more.
I wanted to attention from TSQ.
Scot kept talking to me.
I pick a fight with TSQ.
Every 6th grader understands this.

So your scumhunting so far amounts to a player talking about replacing out.

That's because replacing out is lame.

Tar's case looks like a defense of me.. so I will let it be for now!

So.. are we killing Stark, or what? I still like the idea.

[Kmd4390]

I lost my post last night. But DGB, I looked back at the Zwet wagon. Yes, TSQ was on it. Does that make him scum? Not necessarily. Does it make him more likely to be scum? Possibly.

I don't have a case on Yos aside from his voting for proven townies. I don't expect there to be a great case on him even if he is scum.

I pushed crap cases on Porkens and Nameless too. Not just you.

Sounds like lurker-hunting would have a higher success rate than your current scumhunting technique.

Because I played one terrible game? I'm sure we all have.

Tajo, I left my vote on you because I wanted Stark to say more about his claim before we lynch him.

Really frustrating losing a post.

If I'm around enough today, I'll look closer at Tajo's posts. This weekend is gonna be busy as hell for me.