Mini 692: Boost Mafia (Game Over!)

[eldarad]

Encryptor allows the mafia to daytalk - ie, to PM each other during the Day. (See, for example, the Encryptor role PM from PYP2)

I think this is reasonably significant as it means that boosting GC Yesterday would have been useless to the scum anyway. And knowing that boosting GC wouldn't have helped the scum puts a different light on TDC's total opposition to boosting GC - it's an easy way for TDC-scum to gain townie points with no downside as far as scum are concerned.

So could you have a go at answering the last question in #1447 now that you know what GC's role was?

[TDC]

I assume that question is directed to RR, since I've already answered unter the assumption that the Encryptor would not be game-deciding.

So you think my fear that GC could be a RB (or rather a RB-on-boost) was unwarranted?

And you think that Incog would've vigged GC regardless?

[eldarad]

I assume that question is directed to RR, since I've already answered unter the assumption that the Encryptor would not be game-deciding.

I still think it would be worthwhile for you to answer, even if only to confirm that GC's role doesn't change your opinion.
I think that the fact GC's role would have been *useless* when boosted Yesterday is somewhat different to "not game-deciding." Do you not think so?

So you think my fear that GC could be a RB (or rather a RB-on-boost) was unwarranted?

I already expressed my view on that - I didn't think it was at all likely. But I also accept that such an opinion could be held sincerely.
That does not change the fact that GC's scumbuddy would have - literally - nothing to lose from opposing GC's boost.

And you think that Incog would've vigged GC regardless?

I don't understand this question?

[TDC]

I assume that question is directed to RR, since I've already answered unter the assumption that the Encryptor would not be game-deciding.

I still think it would be worthwhile for you to answer, even if only to confirm that GC's role doesn't change your opinion.
I think that the fact GC's role would have been *useless* when boosted Yesterday is somewhat different to "not game-deciding." Do you not think so?

I can't really think of a boost that would not be game-deciding but still useful.
What I meant was that I see that the motive of boosting him to win the game via the boost power is not there, but I still see the possible motive of protecting him from being vigged. (see below)

And you think that Incog would've vigged GC regardless?

I don't understand this question?

You wanted to boost GC to test the claim. That only makes sense if he actually survives the night. Hence Incognito would've needed to vig someone else.

[TDC]

Or rather you wanted to boost him so that, if he was pro-town, his ability could help the town.
That, too, only makes sense if he survives the night.

[eldarad]

Just posting to say I'm here.
TDC, the answer to your question is fairly easy but I'll wait until I have more time and include it in a bigger post

[Raging Rabbit]

Encryptor allows the mafia to daytalk - ie, to PM each other during the Day. (See, for example, the Encryptor role PM from PYP2)

I think this is reasonably significant as it means that boosting GC Yesterday would have been useless to the scum anyway. And knowing that boosting GC wouldn't have helped the scum puts a different light on TDC's total opposition to boosting GC - it's an easy way for TDC-scum to gain townie points with no downside as far as scum are concerned.

So could you have a go at answering the last question in #1447 now that you know what GC's role was?

Boosting even "vanilla" scum could still have negative implications, so my answer is the same as before.

I really have to reread this game before I go anywhere close to voting, but my extreme shortage means I'm unlikely to have the time to do so for at least another weak. You guys will just have to forgive me, since I highly doubt finding a replacement now would be of any use.

[eldarad]

What negative implications would boosting a vanilla scum have had?

[TDC]

Just posting to say I'm here.
TDC, the answer to your question is fairly easy but I'll wait until I have more time and include it in a bigger post

This coming?

[eldarad]

Meh, I really haven't gotten very far. I read the Skillet wagon, and this is the climax:

Day 1, Vote Count #4 - Lynching

Skillet

(5) <-

Electra

,

sthar8

,

eldarad

,

TDC

,

Crazy

Way back on Day 1 I said that I felt the Skillet wagon had one scum on it, even if Skillet were scum himself. I still believe that. And that kinda leads me to TDC-scum...
The rest of the Skillet wagon doesn't tell me a lot, although with hindsight you can see how Skillet developed his "2 kinds of town, 2 kinds of scum" model that he used to try to discredit Electra's idea of what the game setup may look like.

#1437 doesn't tell us much, though I doubt that will come as a shock to you all.

Or rather you wanted to boost him so that, if he was pro-town, his ability could help the town.
That, too, only makes sense if he survives the night.

Well yeah. I made my position on that reasonably clear, I thought.
I didn't expect GC to survive the Night at all, precisely because his claimed ability - if true - could confirm an innocent, per post 1339.
You were right to point out the flaws, but the benefit wasn't in GC's boost, but in the way it forced the mafia's hand - they would have HAD to kill GC or risk an auto-loss when the town arrived at lylo with one or even two innocents.
If GC survived then he was almost certainly scum. There is scope for some

very

risky WIFOM play from the mafia - which is why I didn't elaborate further Yesterday.
The real benefit from boosting GC was that it forced the mafia into a situation where their choice for who to allow to survive to lylo was restricted if GC was town, and made our choice at lylo very easy if GC was scum...exactly because the scum's kill choice had been so restricted if GC had been town.

[TDC]

You're still missing the point.
How would we have reached today?
a) Incognito vigging GC regardless (making the whole thing POINTLESS)
b) Incognito taking a bigger risk

[eldarad]

Well, given that I didn't think that GC was scum, (b) wasn't such a bad option. I specifically warned against (a).
If there had been a situation where Incog had targeted GC-town but the mafia had not then thay would have been VERY alarming and would have called Incog's alignment into serious question in my mind.

With hindsight, GC would have flipped scum in that case - and so Incog would have been cleared. But we didn't know that at the time.

[TDC]

Do you now see why GC being Encryptor is only half-way towards making your plan look less bad?

[TDC]

I mean, no matter how you spin it, a plan that implies scum-GC surviving the day-night-cycle is a plan with a very real chance for the game ending that night.

[TDC]

You said this:

And knowing that boosting GC wouldn't have helped the scum puts a different light on TDC's total opposition to boosting GC - it's an easy way for TDC-scum to gain townie points with no downside as far as scum are concerned.

Do you still think going along with your plan would not have had an upside for scum, when we just agreed that Incognito would've needed to vig the other scum for the game to even continue?
Whom would he have chosen, you or me?

[Patrick]

Bump. Don't force us to deadline this endgame.

[eldarad]

I mean, no matter how you spin it, a plan that implies scum-GC surviving the day-night-cycle is a plan with a very real chance for the game ending that night.

I'm not arguing that I was right about GC - I clearly wasn't.
But between the lynch and the vig-kill, we needed to be right once. If we had got GC's scumbuddy in either, then GC would be alive Today and would have to be scum. That's no better or worse than the situation we were actually faced with.

I can't speculate on who Incog might have vigged. Even if you think you know, I don't think you do.

Anyway, at the moment I am thinking that TDC is the last scum.

[TDC]

I mean, no matter how you spin it, a plan that implies scum-GC surviving the day-night-cycle is a plan with a very real chance for the game ending that night.

I'm not arguing that I was right about GC - I clearly wasn't.
But between the lynch and the vig-kill, we needed to be right once. If we had got GC's scumbuddy in either, then GC would be alive Today and would have to be scum. That's no better or worse than the situation we were actually faced with.[

I can't speculate on who Incog might have vigged. Even if you think you know, I don't think you do.

I'm pretty certain it would not've been RR. So no it's definitly not the same situation.

Anyway, at the moment I am thinking that TDC is the last scum.

How so?
I mean other than that I made the right call on a plan that would've resulted in insta-loss if RR is scum.

[Elmo]

Raging Rabbit has been prodded.

[Raging Rabbit]

Was prodded, ouch.
I'm directing a film, my highschool final. Insane amounts of work. I'll finish shooting next Tuesday, and may have a little time for MS in the next couple of days, or on the weekend. Afterwards I hope to find the time to reread properly and make up my mind. Apologies for the long LA.

[TDC]

I guess eld could use a prod, too.

[eldarad]

I'm here. I guess I don't feel particuarly incentivised to post when one-third of the players isn't here.

[TDC]

*shrug*
I figured you could reply to my previous post anyway.

[Raging Rabbit]

Will read this over the weekend.

[Ether]

SPACE PIRATES.