Mini 760 - Bleach Mafia: Karakura Town - Game Over!

[Seraphim]

I will continue to keep my vote on ZEE and continue to answer questions concerning my role.

[Gorrad]

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... InAudacity

[ZEEnon]

I'm a little busy this weekend, but I will try to submit my thoughts before the deadline is reached.
As of yet i'm not so sure on voting Seriphim anymore.

[Mastin]

This game sometimes seems to play out like a movie--This certainly isn't a movie, though. When people get close to deadlines in movies, they always make the right move to avoid being killed, the life sucked out of them, etc. In this game, not as much. If we don't have any better suspects, I'd honestly be divided between two things when we approach deadline hours.
1: A no lynch. We lose any information that a lynch would provide, and the only info in the day would be the dead pro-town player.
2: Lynching Seraph, the person with the most votes. I believe his claim, so I believe we'd be lynching a pro-town player. It gives us more information, sure, but is it really worth it?
On the assumption of three scum, I'd do the math myself as to how each would benefit us, but, I, uh, have never been good at math compared to many others. (I'm far from lazy, yea, but I'm more active in my physical activities than mental ones [Not that I'm that strong, either...], hence, don't expect me to do a twenty-step equation in my sleep)
*Is vaguely aware of how people honestly don't care about his life, sensing it even over the internet*
Anyway,

A Doctor would work in the same way -- the protection would be transferred from Seraphim to the person Seraphim hid behind. That means the Doctor would protect himself or herself. And when that occurs, then a nightkill against that Doctor would fail (because they are protected), and also, a nightkill against Seraphim would fail (because he would be hiding). So in effect both would be immune to single nightkills for the entirety of the game.

I have definite problems with believing that.

I can, for several reasons:
1: I find no problem with two people being able to automatically defend each other.
2: We don't know for certain that the loophole exists.
3: The mod might've determined this before the game started.
4: I've seen first-hand on other sites docs and bodyguards, and bodyguards with watchers, making them practically immune to scum night kills.

Of course, if they're unbelieved and lynched, or there is more than one mafia, they still have a fair chance of losing.

As a point to consider -- and I have pondered whether or not this is an appropriate consideration, and I believe it is -- if Seraphim is telling the truth about his role, then the town might just lose the additional lynch we have gained by having no nightkills last night.

More than that.
1: Scum might've just lynched the person they had tried to kill--in other words, we might've done their job.
2: While it is probable we have more roles that could be responsible for the lack of a kill, there is no guarantee. If Seraph's claim is legit, he might be the only role capable of stopping a kill. *VERY* doubtful, yes, but a possibility nonetheless.

I am Kon. Due to my compact body, I can hide with one person every night in their packs, shielding me from NKs. However, anyone tracking me via "spirit threads" will get confused and find the person I hid behind instead.

Hmm...*checks inbox for Mastin's role*
Comparing flavors.
Result:
80/20 on it feeling like it matches the flavor of my own role PM, belief's favor.

I will emphasize that deadline is Monday morning (closer to Sunday evening) in forum time, and that we must reach a full majority in order to lynch anybody in this game.

So soon? *swears*!
I'll have to quickly ponder over whether to vote someone I believe is innocent for the sake of lynching someone for information (Seraph), or letting there be a no lynch.

The tanned grey haired dude who goes around Soul Society topless trying to destory it, yeno... FILLER BOSS MAN.(Vampires)

AKA, the Bunto in the Japanese version, and the Bounts in the English version.

Do Mod Souls even have spirit threads?

Strongly believe the answer is yes--Nova and Matsumoto had to combine their energy in one episode. While, in comparison to the mainstream manga, the Bount arcs aren't considered as canonical, neither are the movies which I watch (and love to think about actually being in. [/Bleach Nerd]) as often as I can.
Anyway, as this is a Bleach game, it is probable that the Mod would consider it to be fully canonical, hence, I believe the answer is yes.

Also, if Seraphim is legit, it would seem to imply there is a tracker in this game. *scribbles down a note on what he already has written down*
Why else would the mod mention spirit thread tracking? For a vig? Doesn't work out as well.

[Albert B. Rampage]

No counter-claim, not from me at least. I think Seraph is scum. We should lynch him before deadline guys.

[Korlash]

I can, for several reasons:
1: I find no problem with two people being able to automatically defend each other.
2: We don't know for certain that the loophole exists.
3: The mod might've determined this before the game started.
4: I've seen first-hand on other sites docs and bodyguards, and bodyguards with watchers, making them practically immune to scum night kills.

1: Why not?
2) A loophole does exist... That has actually been my biggest concern with his role thus far. I can even go so far as to say somewhat of a paradox and infinite loop cycle might exist depending on how far out the mod planned this role.
3? I suppose it's possible. but it's just as equally possible that he didn't...
4> A game with two protection roles is a little different then a game with a protection and a complex hider role. We are talking about a role that has been altered, not a pre-existing role. And how does bodyguards and watchers make anything immune to anything?I'm not understanding something there...

Of course, if they're unbelieved and lynched, or there is more than one mafia, they still have a fair chance of losing.

Usually set-ups aren't balanced on the possibility of pro-town roles being lynched. However, the multiple scum groups theory is good here as we know there is a mafia group AND an SK. So two kills should be counted into the speculation on his claim. In addition one could speculate the possibility of a vig (although I find it unlikely personally) meaning it's possible we could have 3 NKs.

On this subject, have we figured out if protection targets pass on to who he hides behind yet or have we determined it's just "tracker" targets?

Hmm...*checks inbox for Mastin's role*
Comparing flavors.
Result:
80/20 on it feeling like it matches the flavor of my own role PM, belief's favor.

Funny because it in no way matches mine. But that's probably because I'm a totally different role and I don't own a pack. You do know that there is litterally only one part of his flavor I can even speculate that could match another so... if this was some way of trying to be subtle it wasn't very good...

I'll have to quickly ponder over whether to vote someone I believe is innocent for the sake of lynching someone for information (Seraph), or letting there be a no lynch.

What is wrong with lynching Zee? I like that idea... That should make everyone happy...

Also, if Seraphim is legit, it would seem to imply there is a tracker in this game. *scribbles down a note on what he already has written down*
Why else would the mod mention spirit thread tracking? For a vig? Doesn't work out as well.

So either this is a really bad attempt to cover up your really bad subtlety or you are just plain lying about something... And your comments about thinking about lynching sera really make me doubt what I'm thinking about you. I'm seriously considering if it is worth the added pressure I'll get to ask you to tell us what exactly about his flavor matches because... You're giving us mixed signals and this close to deadline that's really bad to be doing...

Um... I kinda like the option of lynching Zee right now just becuase it seems like trying to get Sera lynched has a high chance of ending badly. I think Zee is a good logical choice for runner up today and we can leave Sera for tomorrow. I'm leaving my vote on him right now for that reason, but if I get back from work tonight before deadline and need to change my vote I'll do it... That's cutting it close though...

[PhilyEc]

I strongly oppose a Zee or Sera lynch.

I'd like to see Korlash or Gorrad go as I've earlier made clear. I think everyone should post like this see we get a view on the majority of towns beliefs.
If we are wrong its poor town play and not scum driven. (Due to townies being far more of a majority atm)

Anyone that doesnt agree, tell me why, I dont want any one liners.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Unvote

Okay then, I could go for a speedlynch of someone else. But not Korlash, and not Gorrad.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Vote: Zeenon

[Mastin]

1: Why not?

Simple, really. It depends on the setup. There might be loopholes that allow for one of the two to be killed during the night, when they think they are invincible. Or sometimes, the scum have an ability to counter-act the protection roles. Seraph seemed to clarify with the mod on the matters of roleblocking, implying he can be roleblocked, which implies there is a roleblocker, hence, a way for the protection to fail. That's just an example from first-hand experience on another site.

4> A game with two protection roles is a little different then a game with a protection and a complex hider role. We are talking about a role that has been altered, not a pre-existing role. And how does bodyguards and watchers make anything immune to anything?I'm not understanding something there...

Well, if there's only one scum left, if they shoot at the watcher, the bodyguard protects them, and if they shoot at the bodyguard, the watcher exposes them. Yet if they have two mafia left, they may sacrifice one to take out the bodyguard.

Also, a fifth I forgot about:

5: Who says we have a doctor? With my role and on my notes on roles, I find it to be a very, very strong possibility, yes, but there is no certainty on the matter.

Funny because it in no way matches mine. But that's probably because I'm a totally different role and I don't own a pack. You do know that there is litterally only one part of his flavor I can even speculate that could match another so... if this was some way of trying to be subtle it wasn't very good...

The way it is worded has about an 80% accuracy to the flavor given for my role. Which is why I'm believing the claim. Either,
1: It is as you said: Scumphim was given a safe claim,
2: Scumphim got lucky with the wording,
or
3: It is legit.

I don't see any other options available.

What is wrong with lynching Zee? I like that idea... That should make everyone happy...

I have no problems with lynching Zee, but at the moment, do not support it. (I wish I had more time to think about the actions taken in this game and weigh them carefully)
There's also one small problem:
Zee doesn't have nearly as many votes, so either people have the quickest turnaround possible, we keep on debating to the deadline (no lynch), or Seraphim is lynched.

So either this is a really bad attempt to cover up your really bad subtlety or you are just plain lying about something... And your comments about thinking about lynching sera really make me doubt what I'm thinking about you. I'm seriously considering if it is worth the added pressure I'll get to ask you to tell us what exactly about his flavor matches because... You're giving us mixed signals and this close to deadline that's really bad to be doing...

Whoops. I should've said what I was scribbling down on. I had forgotten about the possibility of a tracker in the game, as while it is one of the most common roles on other sites, it seems to be rather rare on here. In my list of what people I see as being what roles, I hadn't considered a tracker. Now that I have, I have a few theories as to who a hypothetical tracker would be, hence, have written them down for reference when it comes to mass-claim time to help me determine whether I believe the claims or not.

I cannot explain anything more about the flavors without claiming my role, and that, at this stage in the game, would be rather...anti-productive.

My personal list of who I'd think would be a good lynch:

Green. Not gonna happen, unless you can get seven votes in a few hours, but I have gotten very bad vibes from the tone of his posts. I can give further details if necessary.

Albert--Albert's just Albert. I can't get a read on whether this is just his style, or extremely (in my opinion) anti-town behavior. Wants to see someone lynched very badly, to say the least, and has flat-out said he wants a speedlynch.

Okay then, I could go for a speedlynch of someone else. But not Korlash, and not Gorrad.

I do not know about Korlash, Gorrad, or Phil (call them neutral), and Glados has acted pro-town.
My personal experience meta on X shows that X is contributing far less than what I know of, but then again, that was just one newbie game, so I don't really know, however, the discrepancy is...troublesome. For those reasons, X would be my third choice.

Zee and Seraph both are scummy, yet haven't fallen into the top three, since I believe Seraph's claim (hence, making him not scum, in my eyes), and Zee just takes fourth.

That said, I'm voting where my suspicions lie.

Mastin Votes: Green

.

[OhGodMyLife]

Vote Count:

6 to lynch

Seraphim: 3 (Green Crayons, PhilyEc, Gorrad)
ZEEnon: 3 (Korlash, Seraphim, Albert B. Rampage)
Albert B. Rampage: 1 (GLaDOS)
Green Crayons: 1 (Mastin)

Not Voting: 3 (Jebus, Xtoxm, ZEEnon)

Deadline is tomorrow, Monday March 13th, at 10 PM Eastern time.

Prodding Xtoxm and Jebus.

[Green Crayons]

Hey folks. Hiders who target scum die. Seraphim doesn't because he's super special and OGML is giving him a super cool ability? No. Stop getting cold feet.

Mastin, this is me skimming your posts because Easter weekend is a bad time for a deadline. And this is my response: -blank-. Will be happy to talk on the morrow.

[Green Crayons]

Oh, and might as well as see what other BS he pulls out of his butt:

Or what would happen if you were targetted by a non-scum, non-"spirit thread" tracker?

My role PM seems to indicate that such a role does not exist though I will ask the mod this question.

Answer please.

[Gorrad]

I've always been more in favor of a ZEE lynch. His transgression was simply greater than Seraphim's regarding the night kill commentary. Seraphim, as I meant with 451, has claimed a role so unbelievable that I actually am in favor of believing it. If it came down to the wire, yes, a Seraphim lynch would be acceptable, but ZEE is a much better candidate in my eyes.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Mastin's complete bullshit argument about comparable flavor and sentence structure should be ignored through and through.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Seraphim: 3 (Green Crayons, PhilyEc, Gorrad)
ZEEnon: 3 (Korlash, Seraphim, Albert B. Rampage)

Anyone not voting for these two should be a favorite lynch contender tomorrow. Gladdos makes no exception, of course. You laud her for nothing; she does not deserve the ounce of the townie credentials you so readily bestow upon her. I will have no more of this whimsical garbage about her being our flowery pro-town savior. Your naivety disgusts me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Its better to risk lynching a power role with the reward of catching a scum, than to no-lynch with the consequence of never finding a scum.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." -Wayne Gretzky

[Albert B. Rampage]

7. A lynch suffers the requirement of a simple majority. If there is no majority at deadline, there will be no lynch.

I fear it is too late to even decide between two.

Pile all your votes on Seraphim as soon as you read this.

Unvote, vote Seraphim

[Gorrad]

...why was my vote on Seraphim?

RIGHT! The kills paradox.

Ok, yeah, scratch my last post. Seraphim's a good lynch.

[Jebus]

I've got no time to say much for now, but I am caught up.

Vote: Seraphim

I'd prefer a Zeenon lynch, but since we're so close to deadline, Seraphim to avoid a no-lynch.

Should be active and will have plenty to say by the time Day rolls around, so sorry to be so inactive >.<

[Albert B. Rampage]

That said, I'm voting where my suspicions lie.

I feel like ripping the living spleen out of players like these who have no balls whatsoever. Insisting on useless, symbolic actions like that. No respect whatsoever for Mastin's play here.

[Mastin]

Hey folks. Hiders who target scum die. Seraphim doesn't because he's super special and OGML is giving him a super cool ability? No. Stop getting cold feet.

There are any number of reasons why hiders who hide behind scum won't die--most of all, mods putting spins on classic roles.
I'll go make a bold statement which I do believe:
It wouldn't be a good themed game without at least one role which has a new spin to it.
Seraphim's claimed role fits this description perfectly.

Mastin, this is me skimming your posts because Easter weekend is a bad time for a deadline. And this is my response: -blank-. Will be happy to talk on the morrow.

Speechless? (*Is a little speechless at Green's Speechlessness*. Oh, well. On Easter, my responses are also a little rushed, so I understand.)
I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Seraphim, as I meant with 451, has claimed a role so unbelievable that I actually am in favor of believing it.

There's a wiki article on this. Scum do crazy things, sometimes, going as far as to sacrifice their vote for the whole game for the sake of a claim. Which is why the logic behind believing this is null.
However, that said, I don't think it's unbelievable--rather the opposite, I find that it fits perfectly into this game.

Mastin's complete bullshit argument about comparable flavor and sentence structure should be ignored through and through.

Why? Because it'll help expose the scum? Read your PM's. Just do it once. Then compare it to Seraphim's paraphrased PM.
If they sound the same, chances are that Seraphim is legit, unless one of the first two reasons I listed is true.

Anyone not voting for these two should be a favorite lynch contender tomorrow.

And if they flip town? I must say, the opposite would be true--those ON the wagons should be a very good candidate for lynching tomorrow, ESPECIALLY if the person lynched flips power role that could've been useful to the town.

Gladdos makes no exception, of course.

Of course not. She does look extremely pro-town, but that doesn't eliminate anything scummy from view. It hurts the town to have tunnel blindness.

I will have no more of this whimsical garbage about her being our flowery pro-town savior. Your naivety disgusts me.

Let me just say this:
If she's scum, she's been playing better than almost every player here currently, and at this time, she would deserve the win.

Its better to risk lynching a power role with the reward of catching a scum, than to no-lynch with the consequence of never finding a scum.

Not always. Especially when there was a no kill, and you could be lynching the REASON for that no kill.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." -Wayne Gretzky

And if your shot ricochets, you'll be feeling lousy with the bullet in your leg.

I feel like ripping the living spleen out of players like these who have no balls whatsoever. Insisting on useless, symbolic actions like that. No respect whatsoever for Mastin's play here.

Answer me this, if you can:
Why vote a player you do not think is scum, just because the deadline is approaching? Especially when they're a claimed power role, which could have prevented a kill the night before?
Yea, I don't think Seraphim is scum. I think Green is, and when I have more time, I can outline why. I'm voting where my suspicion is. Do you have a problem with that?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Of course I have an issue with that.

You have no idea whether Seraphim is town or not. Even if he has the slightest chance of being scum, he should be killed to avoid a deadline no-lynch. If he did in fact prevent a NK yesterday night, it will not happen again because the scum have the knowledge of his role.

The reality of this is that there is no more time to be spared. If you have something to say, say it now or be silent. Your uncooperative, anti-town demeanor is noted.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You have no idea whether Seraphim is town or not...that is, if you're town, which I think the chances of that being much higher than those of Seraphim.

Also, if the scum make a mistake and don't NK, that doesn't mean we're going to start giving them freebies. Get a hold of yourself Mastin.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Crunched on time, but I am not dissuaded from a Seraphim lynch.

Unvote: Albert B. Rampage, Vote: Seraphim