Mini 692: Boost Mafia (Game Over!)

[TDC]

And when I say "not the "supposed"" I mean "not the "putative"", which is a word I've never heard.

[eldarad]

I mean really, that is what supposedly swung you around to voting me?

That I want to survive in endgame?

My point isn't that you want to survive, it is that

your motivation for posting

is your own survival. It suggests that on previous Days scumhunting wasn't sufficient motive for you to post frequently.

Also, I listed three (and a half) reasons why I thought you were scum. So pretending that I only listed one isn't that impressive. Particuarly when I even spelled out the priority that I gave to each of those reasons.

[TDC]

RR: If you were aiming to the fact that I pose him questions at all, you will remember that I did the same thing with Zeek in Cop Central.

My point isn't that you want to survive, it is that your motivation for posting is your own survival.

My own survival = I win. Should be pretty obvious, really.

It suggests that on previous Days scumhunting wasn't sufficient motive for you to post frequently.

The difference in frequency is not there. It just appears to be more posts by me because there are now less players and people actually respond fast enough for me to see their answers in the same session.
You've never accused me of not scumhunting the entire game, so coming up with it now is rather disingenuous.

Also, I listed three (and a half) reasons why I thought you were scum.

Oh right, there was one thing even

more

important, my presence on the early skillet wagon. How could I forget.

[Raging Rabbit]

If you're town, your survival=win only starting now. That wasn't so at the start of today.

Here's a question for you, TDC - why do you think eld, as scum, would choose to vote for you over me despite me looking more likely to vote for him than for you at the start of today and you strongly expressing a lean towards me?

[Raging Rabbit]

And since I'm too lazy to look and not sure if you posted them earlier, could you link to some past games of yours as scum?

[TDC]

If you're town, your survival=win only starting now. That wasn't so at the start of today.

Uh. Yes it was. If I die today, I lose.

Here's a question for you, TDC - why do you think eld, as scum, would choose to vote for you over me despite me looking more likely to vote for him than for you at the start of today and you strongly expressing a lean towards me?

I don't think you looked more likely to vote him than me when he placed his vote.
At the beginning of the day, yes. But one hour ago?
My lean wasn't that strong either.
And then there's WIFOM.

[TDC]

Just click on that little wiki link.

[Elmo]

Day 4, Vote Count #1

TDC <- eldarad
eldarad <- TDC

With 3 alive, it's 2 to lynch. The

deadline

is Saturday, 25 April 2009, 22:00 UTC, which is 9 days, 2 hours and 42 minutes from this post.

[Raging Rabbit]

Uh. Yes it was. If I die today, I lose.

Yes, but you also had to figure out which one of us is the scum.

I don't think you looked more likely to vote him than me when he placed his vote.
At the beginning of the day, yes. But one hour ago?
My lean wasn't that strong either.
And then there's WIFOM.

So why not attack me from the start of today?

[TDC]

Uh. Yes it was. If I die today, I lose.

Yes, but you also had to figure out which one of us is the scum.

Which I rather failed at.

So why not attack me from the start of today?

Might've looked OMGUSy? I don't know, really.

[Raging Rabbit]

Not too convincing.

I'll come up with questions as my reread progresses, for now I'd just like to say that this game's been going on for close to fucking 6 months.

[Raging Rabbit]

I just finished finished reading the relevant parts of d1 (p. 29). Funny how that day alone was longer than the average mini.

Questions:
TDC -
1. I'd like you to list the best reasons you can think of for you as scum to switch from Huntress to Jahudo at the timing in which you did.
2. How would you describe the difference between your town play and your scum play?
3. Why do you think you never got NK'd? Not just last night, generally. You seemed an ideal N1 target,

eld -
1. Reread your case against iLord. In hindsight, how convincing do you think it is?
2. What led you to think Incog and Guardian were scum together?
3. What sort of "accumulated towniness" made you boost Jahudo? Can you think of anything specific that made you think he was town?

[Raging Rabbit]

TDC, given your vanilla claim, how do you explain this?

While Electra's information is not really testable right now, a mass claim without any plain vanillas would hurt her credibility a lot. (I am assuming that if what she says is true, vanillas that do not know about their boost are not boostable.. though that's just speculation).

[Raging Rabbit]

I'm in page 45, taking a break to calm down a little. Ice and xtoxm are definitely the two scummiest townies ever, and are annoying the shit outta me even in retrospect. Will finish my read later today.

[TDC]

1. I'd like you to list the best reasons you can think of for you as scum to switch from Huntress to Jahudo at the timing in which you did.

That's an odd question. How I am supposed to answer that?
I don't think there's a really good reason for scum-me to lynch the Godfather on D1, when I could just as easily have stayed on Huntress, especially given my less than frequent posting. I don't think the Jahudo-lynch looked inevitable at that point either.
I mean that's why scum lynch their buddies usually, no? Because it's going to happen anyway and they want to look good while doing it.

2. How would you describe the difference between your town play and your scum play?

I've never meta'd myself (and I think nobody else has ever done it either), so I can't really tell.
I would guess multi-post sprees come more often from me as town. I would also guess that I'm more on the fence as scum.

3. Why do you think you never got NK'd? Not just last night, generally. You seemed an ideal N1 target,

You think I looked most-town and/or likely to have a power role on N1?
People seemed to disagree, seeing how I wasn't boosted. That said neither sthar nor Electra were killed either.
I assume iLord had to die because he was one of the driving forces of the Jahudo lynch (unlike me, for example). He was also rather suspicious of eld, if you remember.


N2's kill of vollkan seems rather obvious as does N3's kill of Incognito.

I'm not all that surprised I wasn't nightkilled.

TDC, given your vanilla claim, how do you explain this?

While Electra's information is not really testable right now, a mass claim without any plain vanillas would hurt her credibility a lot. (I am assuming that if what she says is true, vanillas that do not know about their boost are not boostable.. though that's just speculation).

What do you mean?
Do you expect me to post "Electra tells the truth, I'm vanilla!" or what?
I attempted to show how her claim was more believable, since a mass claim could easily disprove her, if she was wrong. Which would be a rather risky move if she was scum.
What would you propose should I have posted to convey that without telling the scum where NOT to look for power roles?

[Raging Rabbit]

That's an odd question. How I am supposed to answer that?

I'm actually satisfied with your response. Wanted to see if you'll come up with one of the nubmer of reasons I can think of for possibly doing that.

What do you mean?
Do you expect me to post "Electra tells the truth, I'm vanilla!" or what?
I attempted to show how her claim was more believable, since a mass claim could easily disprove her, if she was wrong. Which would be a rather risky move if she was scum.
What would you propose should I have posted to convey that without telling the scum where NOT to look for power roles

I mean, why would you post that? Why would you even take a massclaim without any vanillas into account, knowing you yourself are one?

[TDC]

Some people were suspicious of her because her information was "not confirmable" and worrying scum-Electra could cruise through the remainder of the game.

[Raging Rabbit]

But why theorize about what a massclaim with no vanillas would mean, if you know for a fact that wouldn't be the case?

[TDC]

To show that she would, in fact, not be able to survive a mass claim if she was lying.

I don't see how me knowing that a mass claim would support her claim should prevent me from using that hypothetical.

Again, how else should I've gone about pointing out that if she was lying scum, a mass claim would do her in?

[Raging Rabbit]

Did you really think that just because she "knew" there were vanillas in the setup and implied they'd get no benefit from a boost, she's more likely to be town? The existence of vanillas is extremely plausible.

And I can't bring myself to grasp why town you would phrase that post in the negative.

[Raging Rabbit]

eld, what do you make of all the mutual attacks/bussing that's been going on between TDC and GC? For exmaple, this post:

Xtox has had shitty quarrels with RR, myself and Eld. Like, very-obviously-not-the-same-scum-group conversations. And not the scum trying out a distancing strategy type either. Incog has basically said that he thinks the ground Xtox walks on becomes town just from osmosis. Not something a scum group readily does (plus there's that whole vig thing). If Xtox flips scum, his only partner would be TDC.

I don't know why you people keep forgetting about him. He's still in this game!

Lynch TDC. Vig RR/me/Eld/Xtox (preferably not Eld - or me, for that matter). We will find ourselves in either a win or another probable LYLO situation.

[TDC]

Did you really think that just because she "knew" there were vanillas in the setup and implied they'd get no benefit from a boost, she's more likely to be town?

No, I thought she was town anyway.

The existence of vanillas is extremely plausible.

Yes. The existance of vanillas that can't be boosted rather less so.
I don't know about you, but given the flavour I figured I'd get at least

something

from a boost, even if it likely wasn't going to be as good as Electra's.

And I can't bring myself to grasp why town you would phrase that post in the negative.

What's the "positive"?
"Hey, we could mass claim and then boost a vanilla who doesn't know about his boosts (*cough* like me *cough*) and see whether it does anything to prove her claim!"

[Raging Rabbit]

No, I thought she was town anyway.

Why type that post, then?

Yes. The existance of vanillas that can't be boosted rather less so.

I thought I'd get something from a boost too, but a massclaim has nothing to do with what boosting does to vanillas.

What's the "positive"?
"Hey, we could mass claim and then boost a vanilla who doesn't know about his boosts (*cough* like me *cough*) and see whether it does anything to prove her claim!"

Maybe something more along the lines of "I tend to believe electra", the massclaim speculation makes zero sense cosidering your claim anyways. And that post also carries quite a strong negative connotation regarding electra.

[Raging Rabbit]

A question for both of you:

What do you make of the dichotomy GC drew between TDC's lack of opposition to boosting him D1 and eldarad's support of boosting on him D3 (as charactorized in 1358-1351)? For exmaple:

Okay, first of all you have to understand the difference in those two bullet points is the town's ability to handle the risk in each situation. Otherwise, yes, I think that sums up my position.

But then you get all whompy with your logic. Here is what my position is. TDC is scummy for not pushing the boost wagon away from a townie when the town could handle the risk of an unknown boost (early on). Eld is not scummy for pushing the boost wagon to a townie when the town can't handle the risk (late game).

Here it is, in easy bullet format:


· TDC is scummy for wanting the town to not take risks when the town should take risks.
· Eld is not scummy for wanting the town to not take risks when the town should not take risks.


And of course TDC is scummy for the town to not take risks when it should because he isn't town and is scum and thus would want to be boosted.

TDC, it seems to me that GC was trying very hard to be as aggressive to you as he possibly could on D3, in a way that's above and beyond how he usually chooses to phrase himself. Do you agree? If so, why do you think that was?

[TDC]

No, I thought she was town anyway.

Why type that post, then?

As I said, probably because people (Huntress, I assume) were claiming the information was not testable (and hence convenient for scum).

I thought I'd get something from a boost too, but a massclaim has nothing to do with what boosting does to vanillas.

But it tells you whether there are people that could potentially qualify for her statement, and would allow you to test the claim.

Maybe something more along the lines of "I tend to believe electra", the massclaim speculation makes zero sense cosidering your claim anyways. And that post also carries quite a strong negative connotation regarding electra.

I think I made it really clear I believed her. Seeing how I boosted her and voted Huntress largely because she attacked Electra after the boost.
If this formulation was so unclear regarding my intention.. why did nobody just ask me back then?

What do you make of the dichotomy GC drew between TDC's lack of opposition to boosting him D1 and eldarad's support of boosting on him D3 (as charactorized in 1358-1351)? For exmaple:

It's obviously a double standard, makes no sense and fits right into what else was part of his crap case.

TDC, it seems to me that GC was trying very hard to be as aggressive to you as he possibly could on D3, in a way that's above and beyond how he usually chooses to phrase himself. Do you agree? If so, why do you think that was?

I don't know how he "usually chooses to phrase himself", but compared to the rest of the game, yes.
Maybe he thought he could sway Incognito towards vigging me over him, ensuring victory. Or maybe he just wanted you to pose this question.
Or probably, a combination of both.