Mini 760 - Bleach Mafia: Karakura Town - Game Over!

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Mafia lingo: The first nightkill attempt on you will fail.

Bleaach lingo: Your impressive size and strength combined with your armor will allow you to survive the first night kill attempt made on you.

Of these two, mine mirrors the "Bleach lingo."

[Korlash]

Ok then I'll nix that line of thought. I'm still not liking his use of the word reiatsu but as ABR said it is a pretty moot point when it's by itself.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Green Crayons said he was paraphrasing. In addition, experienced mods will build the flavor like that to throw off the town.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

I was cleaning out my data banks earlier, and I came across a few lines of thought. They are still very raw, and I would appreciate commentary.

1.)

Assume that Xtoxm activated Albert B. Rampage last night, which allowed Albert B. Rampage to become a Mason with ZEEnon.

Albert B. Rampage has said that he has gotten to start a QuickTopic with ZEEnon, presumably during Night Three. This heavily suggests against the possibility of a Role-Blocker. If there were a Role-Blocker, our Mod would presumably have waited until night ended to make sure that Xtoxm was not role-blocked. (I would further presume our Mod would take such a precaution if the Mafia Redirector was still alive.)

Additionally, I think that having both a Mafia Redirector and a Mafia Role-Blocker is simply ridiculously powerful, especially against a Serial Killer with no known advantages.

2.)

If there is no such role-blocker, then this puts Korlash's failed target of ZEEnon into some question. If Albert B. Rampage believes he has a reason for why Korlash would fail with targeting ZEEnon (as he seems to suggest) I would quite like to hear it. I am already concerned that he was able to "attach" himself onto Gorrad (Godfather) but not ZEEnon (claimed Nurse).

3.)

This also makes me wonder about Gorrad's theory of "negative enabling" which he failed to explain -- perhaps the scum need to use their

own

enabler so that the other scum can use their special powers (i.e. Redirecting, Godfather) at all.

Note that if this theory is correct, it is

very

thematically similar to SPQR Mafia, where the Mafia had to keep a certain member alive in order to nightkill at all, and it had to keep the other two members of the Mafia alive in order to fulfill it's win condition. In this game, the mechanic would simply be that the Mafia needs to keep one of their members alive (their Enabler) to even get to use their special abilities.

4.)

What happens if Xtoxm and Korlash target the same person? Would Xtoxm's role take precedence such that Korlash would not need to "attach" to somebody, or would he attach even though he would not really be enabling? Note that this might explain Korlash's failed targeting, but this would necessitate Xtoxm's role to act

before

Korlash's role.

As I understand, Xtoxm has claimed a "one-night stand" ability, whereas Korlash has claimed an "attached until death" ability.

[Xtoxm]

No, latent abilities are revealed on death.

[Korlash]

Albert B. Rampage has said that he has gotten to start a QuickTopic with ZEEnon, presumably during Night Three. This heavily suggests against the possibility of a Role-Blocker. If there were a Role-Blocker, our Mod would presumably have waited until night ended to make sure that Xtoxm was not role-blocked. (I would further presume our Mod would take such a precaution if the Mafia Redirector was still alive.)

Unless the RBer sent in his target first... in which case the mod wouldn't have had to wait.

Additionally, I think that having both a Mafia Redirector and a Mafia Role-Blocker is simply ridiculously powerful, especially against a Serial Killer with no known advantages.

How so? Town has a cop and doc and tracker and two spirit enablers and a bulletproof... and masons... Two scum power roles don't seem like too much of a stretch.

And I have been also thinking about the precense of a mafia JK of sorts. As Gorrad fakeclaimed that power it is possible he could have had that power on his side to help confirm himself later on. Although that would beg the question as to the JK didn't prevent the mason thing. BTW, this is all assuming if such a role existed the scum would have targeted Zee last night.

In deathnote the Masonizer was unblockable, so the same role could have been applied here making the target go through even if Zee had "JKed". I still think a simple mafia RBer makes more sense though.

2.) If there is no such role-blocker, then this puts Korlash's failed target of ZEEnon into some question. If Albert B. Rampage believes he has a reason for why Korlash would fail with targeting ZEEnon (as he seems to suggest) I would quite like to hear it. I am already concerned that he was able to "attach" himself onto Gorrad (Godfather) but not ZEEnon (claimed Nurse).

Which explains why the scum choose to block me. I look like such an easy mislynch on the surface no? Hell there's plenty of circumstancial evidence already out there. Combine that with my ability failing and with how many people wanted me lynched yesterday anyways it's a no brainer I'm being set-up. Unless this is all some sort of WIFOM on my part but I'm not really known for stooping this low when fakeclaiming.

3.) This also makes me wonder about Gorrad's theory of "negative enabling" which he failed to explain -- perhaps the scum need to use their own enabler so that the other scum can use their special powers (i.e. Redirecting, Godfather) at all.

... Now your just assuming the scum would bring up subjects that are true for no reason at all. Gorrad fakeclaiming JK when they really have a Jker makes sense because it's his way of coering his ass if asked to prove his role. To bring up a "negative enabler" only served to put doubt on me and Xtoxm, I hardly think one exists. Although I won't completely ignore the possibility, I just don't see any real evidence to suggest it. (I'm assuming any town enablers would activate the scum's latent abilities. I've also been assuming scum just didn't have any latent abilities and the enablers targeting them was just a waste of their action. Thusly, helping to balance having two of them.)

Note that if this theory is correct, it is very thematically similar to SPQR Mafia, where the Mafia had to keep a certain member alive in order to nightkill at all, and it had to keep the other two members of the Mafia alive in order to fulfill it's win condition. In this game, the mechanic would simply be that the Mafia needs to keep one of their members alive (their Enabler) to even get to use their special abilities.

It just doesn't make sense with the theme. I mean what Hollow's ability was to strengthen other hollows? Grand Fisher had his doll, that is where he gets his GF ability and Chandolier could control others, thusly redirecting what they do. They didn't need any help from anyone else to do those things.

4.) What happens if Xtoxm and Korlash target the same person? Would Xtoxm's role take precedence such that Korlash would not need to "attach" to somebody, or would he attach even though he would not really be enabling? Note that this might explain Korlash's failed targeting, but this would necessitate Xtoxm's role to act before Korlash's role.

based on logic his ability becomes moot. Like a JK and a RB targeting the same person. It doesn't matter which happens first, all that is important is that in the end the JK's ability will still be active. Much like with me and Xtoxm. it doesn't matter what he does, unless I fail in some way I will remain attached to the player. My attachment lasts AFTER the night, so it makes no sense that it would fail simply because another enabler also targeted the same person.

As I understand, Xtoxm has claimed a "one-night stand" ability, whereas Korlash has claimed an "attached until death" ability.

Sounds about right...

[Korlash]

No, latent abilities are revealed on death.

Damn, yet another obvious point you noticed and I failed to grasp even the slightest. You are rapidly becoming one of my favorite players... ;_; Can I have your autograph? Make it out to "BWAHAHAHAHAHA.... AHAHAHA... Jones"

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Hmm, fair point, Xtoxm. I will need to think on it.

Two scum power roles don't seem like too much of a stretch.

A Mafia Role-Blocker requires three scum-power roles (as I consider a Godfather to be a power role). In any case, I believe it is far too powerful because of the following situations:

Situation A

: Serial Killer v Mafia Redirector = Mafia Redirector wins (i.e. redirect the Serial Killer onto themselves while nightkilling them); and

Situation B

: Serial Killer v Mafia Role-Blocker = Mafia Role-Blocker wins (i.e. role-block the Serial Killer while nightkilling them).

In effect, such a set-up would be giving the Mafia two distinct ways to completely diffuse the Serial Killer.

[Korlash]

I don't consider the GF to be a power role because it is so common and doesn't really "do" anything. But yes, it is a power role and I should count it.

Situation A: Serial Killer v Mafia Redirector = Mafia Redirector wins (i.e. redirect the Serial Killer onto themselves while nightkilling them); and
Situation B: Serial Killer v Mafia Role-Blocker = Mafia Role-Blocker wins (i.e. role-block the Serial Killer while nightkilling them).

In effect, such a set-up would be giving the Mafia two distinct ways to completely diffuse the Serial Killer.

So what? How many possibilities are there for night actions? And how many of those have every single town willy nilly not doing anything while both scum teams focus primarily with the other? None...

You are completely overlooking the town here. The town has equal ways to diffuse the SK (Tracker, Doc, Bulletproof, and cop if he would have found SK's guilty) are you saying one of them is lying? Becuase that makes either you or Zee the lying scum... And... I doubt zee will be lynched before you.

I don't think the mod balances the mafia out based entirely on how much they do or do not screw over the SK.

Every single power role gets screwed over when you put them against three. It's a rediculus argument from you and I'm really surprised you even made it. It's really making me wonder why you are going through so much to disprove a mafia RBer theory. You know... like maybe you were hoping to use it's ability to cast doubt on me for instance...

[ZEEnon]

Green Crayons, why is your

passive ability

a miller?
That doesn't seem like a passive ability at all.
It seems like a role.

Vote: Green Crayons

[Green Crayons]

Green Crayons, just to be clear: are you claiming that being a miller (as you suspect) is a passive ability?

Yes. The "title," per se, of my passive ability is Hunted.

And you are also claiming that your passive ability is not set forth for you in a straightforward manner (i.e. you are not told exactly what your ability does)? I am just trying to be clear on this because my passive ability is very straightforward, and not really subject to interpretation.

It doesn't say "You are a miller." It does talk about confusion about my alignment if investigated by people who can sense stuff like this because of my close proximity of the hollows hunting me. It doesn't go into specifics beyond that.

When I say "I understood it immediately to mean that I was a miller in some shape or fashion," I mean when I first received the role (and up until this morning) I understood it to mean that if I was investigated I would come up guilty/scum/hollow/whatever (I'm guessing as to what specifically would have come up - but I do know it would have been incorrect). In other words, something that would - I presume - mess with Phily's investigation results. The "some shape or fashion" is me putting my current perspective on my initial interpretation, I guess, as I now have no idea how it would have affected Mr. Latent Tracker's results. So, a miller in some shape or fashion. I don't know what the normal interaction is between a miller targeted by a tracker or a watcher (if they would see "guilty" results or nothing at all if there was no targeting done).

For the record, the role

does

mention the hollows' foul reiatsu. Not spirit threads or whatever. But it also specifically talks about people who can feel stuff like this, which wasn't very specific. So. Whatever. I understood that to mean people who were sensitive to reiatsu/ghosts/hollows/the whole shebang/etc would mistake my for a hollow instead of a ghost being chased down by hollows.

Xtox

: Did the mod notify you that Albert was definitely on your side with the mason upgrade? Or is it just "you two can talk to one another" deal? I would be infinitely more comfortable with the former, for obvious reasons.

2.) If there is no such role-blocker, then this puts Korlash's failed target of ZEEnon into some question. If Albert B. Rampage believes he has a reason for why Korlash would fail with targeting ZEEnon (as he seems to suggest) I would quite like to hear it. I am already concerned that he was able to "attach" himself onto Gorrad (Godfather) but not ZEEnon (claimed Nurse).

3.) This also makes me wonder about Gorrad's theory of "negative enabling" which he failed to explain -- perhaps the scum need to use their own enabler so that the other scum can use their special powers (i.e. Redirecting, Godfather) at all.

I agree with two. I don't see how you go from two to three.

Green Crayons, why is your passive ability a miller?

...I don't know? Feel free to hit up OGML once the game is over.

That doesn't seem like a passive ability at all.

No, it fits the bill. I don't do anything but it is in effect. Hence, passive.

It seems like a role.

I'm not sure how this makes sense. My role is the Ghost Boy. My Passive Ability is Hunted. My Win Condition is Town.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Korlash, my theory comes directly from my workings of balance. When there are two scum-groups, they obviously do not have to be on equal footing, but giving one scum group two "aces in the hole" against the other (which so far as we know had no such "aces") is overkill. Of course, not all mods follow what I consider to be balanced, but judging from OhGodMyLife's past modded games OhGodMyLife definitely has a tendency of adding subtle

restrictions

to the Mafia as opposed to just making them blatantly powerful.

The

town

, on the other hand, gets more power because (i) it is uncoordinated, (ii) the town may rely on a power that is nonexistant when making plans [i.e. fake-claims], and (iii) in this game, the town needs to fend off two scum groups and hence two nightkills each night.

~

Since ZEEnon is basing a vote off of how Green Crayon's claimed passive ability works, I think this justifies Korlash claiming his own passive ability and how it works.

[Jebus]

... Processing ...

Jebus, do you consider Kiego to be part of the main plot? What about Mizuiro?

I don't consider either to be part of the main plot - both characters are extremely minor, and hardly show up at all :/

Same with Don Kanonji, same with spirit kids, same with Karin and Yuzu (though widely used in fillers and some earlier episodes). In the case of this game, I would consider Karin and Yuzu major characters, but normally otherwise.

As for Chad, I still don't believe he'd be the only major character in this game, or even be in this game at all.

Glados - Do you know if you bulletproof has been used or not, or does this not get told?

ZEE: can you confirm that Xotxm enabled ABR, and ABR became a Mason with you?

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Jebus, please reconcile these three posts:

All I can say is that my role doesn't dance around the main plot

Same here.

I'm Mizuiro Kojima. There is nothing that suggests I'm anything but vanilla.

... Processing ...

Jebus, do you consider Kiego to be part of the main plot? What about Mizuiro?

I don't consider either to be part of the main plot - both characters are extremely minor, and hardly show up at all :/

~

Glados - Do you know if you bulletproof has been used or not, or does this not get told?

I am not told when my one-shot nightkill immunity is used. I feel like I have answered this question multiple times.

[Green Crayons]

2.) If there is no such role-blocker, then this puts Korlash's failed target of ZEEnon into some question. If Albert B. Rampage believes he has a reason for why Korlash would fail with targeting ZEEnon (as he seems to suggest) I would quite like to hear it. I am already concerned that he was able to "attach" himself onto Gorrad (Godfather) but not ZEEnon (claimed Nurse).

3.) This also makes me wonder about Gorrad's theory of "negative enabling" which he failed to explain -- perhaps the scum need to use their own enabler so that the other scum can use their special powers (i.e. Redirecting, Godfather) at all.

I agree with two. I don't see how you go from two to three.

DOS, maybe you can help me out here. And not so much to help bridge the gap between two and three, but maybe help me out to see to what end this speculation is heading? It's obvious that that you're directing it towards Korlash and his claim, but I don't see what specifically about it that you're having issues if this hypothetical situation exists.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Green Crayons, my jump from 2 to 3 was roughly along the following thought-process:

Why would Korlash be able to attach to Gorrad and not to ZEEnon? Perhaps he can only attach to scum. Perhaps he is scum who only attaches to his partners, thus activating his partners. Therefore, perhaps Gorrad’s “negative enabler” was a more weighty suggestion than I first considered.

For the record, Gorrad’s suggestion was that there existed an Enabler who actually

Disabled

town roles; not an Enabler that only helped the scum. But the underpinning of “Mafia Enabler” is what I had in mind.

~

My speculation was obviously making me consider if one of Korlash or Xtoxm is being truthful about their ability, but not their alignment. However, Xtoxm pointing out that neither mafia member was revealed as having a “latent” ability is something that is definitely making me rethink my theory.

[Albert B. Rampage]

1.)

Assume that Xtoxm activated Albert B. Rampage last night, which allowed Albert B. Rampage to become a Mason with ZEEnon.

Albert B. Rampage has said that he has gotten to start a QuickTopic with ZEEnon, presumably during Night Three. This heavily suggests against the possibility of a Role-Blocker. If there were a Role-Blocker, our Mod would presumably have waited until night ended to make sure that Xtoxm was not role-blocked. (I would further presume our Mod would take such a precaution if the Mafia Redirector was still alive.)

Additionally, I think that having both a Mafia Redirector and a Mafia Role-Blocker is simply ridiculously powerful, especially against a Serial Killer with no known advantages.

Your first point is wrong because I activated the mason QT only a few hours before the deadline, and didn't have time to say anything, only ZEEnon had time to type something.

2.)

If there is no such role-blocker, then this puts Korlash's failed target of ZEEnon into some question. If Albert B. Rampage believes he has a reason for why Korlash would fail with targeting ZEEnon (as he seems to suggest) I would quite like to hear it. I am already concerned that he was able to "attach" himself onto Gorrad (Godfather) but not ZEEnon (claimed Nurse).

Simply put, ZEEnon doesn't have a latent ability. That's why Korlash failed.

3.)

This also makes me wonder about Gorrad's theory of "negative enabling" which he failed to explain -- perhaps the scum need to use their

own

enabler so that the other scum can use their special powers (i.e. Redirecting, Godfather) at all.

Possible, which would explain the night 1 no-kill.

4.)

What happens if Xtoxm and Korlash target the same person?

Xtom's ability works for one night, and Korlash's works indefinitely for as long as he is attached. So same thing happens if they both target the same person as if only one did.

[Albert B. Rampage]

... Processing ...

Jebus, do you consider Kiego to be part of the main plot? What about Mizuiro?

I don't consider either to be part of the main plot - both characters are extremely minor, and hardly show up at all :/

Same with Don Kanonji, same with spirit kids, same with Karin and Yuzu (though widely used in fillers and some earlier episodes). In the case of this game, I would consider Karin and Yuzu major characters, but normally otherwise.

As for Chad, I still don't believe he'd be the only major character in this game, or even be in this game at all.

Glados - Do you know if you bulletproof has been used or not, or does this not get told?

ZEE: can you confirm that Xotxm enabled ABR, and ABR became a Mason with you?

She does not get told.

ZEE can confirm of course since he talked to me in the QT.

And if you don't believe Chad is in the game, you should vote for Glados.

[ZEEnon]

I think that GLaDOS' role does help balance out the three scum/ serial killer set up.
I don't like how Green Crayons claims that his passive ability is a miller.
I'm thinking his PM would outright tell him he is a miller.
But I think that a miller role is likely to be in this set up.
Therefore,

Unvote .

Also, I might have a latent ability, but that is not confirmed.
There is also the chance that if a player is masoned, they can not use their latent ability any longer.
&& yupp, I confirm that I am masons with Albert B. Rampage.
I'm 100% sure that Albert B. Rampage & Xtoxm are town. Those two players I am confident in.

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Was exchanging words with the Mod last night. Apparently if a role can effect the resolution of other roles (such as a role-blocker) then they cannot change their night-choice once it is submitted. Such a limitation is not placed on roles that do not effect the resolution of other roles (such as a Cop). So if there was a Mafia Role-Blocker then the mod would only have to wait until the Role-Blocker sent in a choice before knowing whether to allow other actions to go through. As such, a fair portion of my reasoning against the presence of a Mafia Role-Blocker may be incorrect.

~

Korlash, do you always know who you are attached to? For example, if you had been redirected on Night One to Albert B. Rampage, would you still be attached to him right now, and would you even know it? What if you were redirected to target yourself?

[Korlash]

Korlash, do you always know who you are attached to? For example, if you had been redirected on Night One to Albert B. Rampage, would you still be attached to him right now, and would you even know it? What if you were redirected to target yourself?

I was not told whether or not I had been attached to "gorrad" personally. But when I got my fialed result pm last night I was told specifically that I was unattached to anyone. If I had been redirected, whoever I had been redirected to must have died. I'm just going to assume I wasn't redirected.

Simply put, ZEEnon doesn't have a latent ability. That's why Korlash failed.

Gorrad didn't have a latent ability but I still attached to him. That can't be the reason I failed.

[Xtoxm]

<3, K

[GLaDOS]

... Processing ...

Waiting for Jebus to rise.

[Albert B. Rampage]

These were some of Mastin's last posts before dying:

Swear to me that you will lynch Glados tomorrow and I will vote for Gorrad on the spot. I want your oath signed in blood though.

If Gorrad flips scum, there's not a chance that I'd NOT vote Glados. If he's town, then my theory is flawed.

I have no defense. I did not write the setup. I cannot tell you why I have the role I do. Lynch me if you want, but get ZEEnon tomorrow.

Kthnxdienao.

I am satisfied that we have enough info for today. Albert's claim was satisfactory (contrary to what Glados says), in my eyes (also, Zee seems to confirm Albert), and Gorrad blew his chance to defend himself.
More than enough for me.
Anyone object to a hammer? (BESIDES Glados)

All the evidence points to Glados being scum.

Unvote, vote GLados

Its impossible she's not scum. There is no WIFOM in this. Just fact.

[Jebus]

... Processing ...

Jebus, please reconcile these three posts:

All I can say is that my role doesn't dance around the main plot

Same here.

I'm Mizuiro Kojima. There is nothing that suggests I'm anything but vanilla.

... Processing ...

Jebus, do you consider Kiego to be part of the main plot? What about Mizuiro?

I don't consider either to be part of the main plot - both characters are extremely minor, and hardly show up at all :/

Not sure what you mean by reconcile.

Yes, all of them are correct, if that's what you mean - my role definitely doesn't dance around the main plot, there's nothing that even suggests I'm anything but a vanilla townie, and Mizuiro and Kiego are both incredibly minor characters. Kiego only shows up more because of anime-only and filler arcs. Neither of which actually happen in the first 64 episodes, if I remember correctly.

Glados - Do you know if you bulletproof has been used or not, or does this not get told?

I am not told when my one-shot nightkill immunity is used. I feel like I have answered this question multiple times.

Sorry if I missed it