[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[ortolan]

actually, after previous game, it seems that polygamist can be a bit more favored for town, but that is something I want to test out now.

How'd you come to this conclusion? We had an easy win on our hands

[Empking]

Pie X4 +2

1 Busdriver
1 Goon

1 Cop
1 Doc
5 Townies

[mykonian]

actually, after previous game, it seems that polygamist can be a bit more favored for town, but that is something I want to test out now.

How'd you come to this conclusion? We had an easy win on our hands

you didn't pay attention

[Elephant Hell]

1-shot C9

2 Mafiosi

1 1-shot Cop (Sane)
1 1-shot Doc (Sane)
3 Townies

Possible alternative: 50% chance each of Cop or Doc being 1-shot. Might be better as 1-shot C9+2.

[StrangerCoug]

I think 1-shot C9 is a good idea to play with, but for it to be a true C9 the cop and doc must each have a 50-50 chance of existing in the first place.

[Elephant Hell]

1-shot C9

2 Mafiosi

1 from: 1-shot Cop (Sane), Townie (50% chance of each)
1 from: 1-shot Doc (Sane), Townie (50% chance of each)
3 Townies

Daystart.

[StrangerCoug]

That's better.

Nominate.

[charter]

Second 1-Shot C9

That looks pretty good.

[Empking]

1-shot C9

2 Mafiosi

1 from: 1-shot Cop (Sane), Townie (50% chance of each)
1 from: 1-shot Doc (Sane), Townie (50% chance of each)
3 Townies

Daystart.

So its worse for the town than normal scum-favored C9?

Nominate: Original 1-Shot C9 (that isn't really C9)

[Elephant Hell]

I was debating making the town power roles full rather than 1-shot if one of them was in the game, but then they'd know how many power roles there are. Regarding it being worse for the town, that's why I suggested it might be better if it was C9+2 (although not really C9). Would having it as 2 Mafiosi, 1 1-shot Cop, 1 1-shot Doc and 5 Townies be better than the original version?

[Mr. Flay]

1-Shot Micro or something would be a better name. I like the original, without the C9 variability.

[Elephant Hell]

Given that the issue with the original was about being called a C9 without actually being one, I think that's fine.

1-shot Micro

2 Mafiosi

1 1-shot Cop (Sane)
1 1-shot Doc (Sane)
3 Townies

Daystart.

[charter]

Pretty sure guaranteeing the one shots makes this very difficult for scum to win if cop claims immediately day one.

[Elephant Hell]

If they're counterclaimed, or the Mafia claims first and is counterclaimed, the Doc won't know who to protect (assuming neither player is particularly scummy or obviously town). There is a problem if the Cop investigates the other partner and outs both scum, but then the Mafia just has to try and conceal their connection in the first day to avoid this.

There's also the possibility that the Cop's investigation target and the mafia's victim are the same, leaving the Cop with no evidence and the Doc having used their ability - then the fake Cop could claim with their result and try and get a lynch (not sure how easy that would be, but if successful it would end with a Mafia victory).

In any case the Mafia basically loses if the town decides to test the claim by lynching the fake Cop day 1 (probably the optimal play at that stage). The best case scenario for the Mafia if the town decides to test the claims is that they kill the Cop first, then the fake Cop second, leaving the last Mafioso in a 3-player endgame if the Doc doesn't successfully protect on either night. But I might be wrong about some or all of this post.

[charter]

If mafia doesn't counter, they need to NK who the cop investigated to have a good chance at winning. Else, day two, doc claims, then cop claims result. Scum can try and claim doc, but if the cop investigated the real doc, they are just giving themselves up.

If mafia does counter, town has to lynch one of those two today (else they will just be making the same choice again in LYLO). If they lynch right, it will take a lot of lucky night actions for scum to have a chance at winning. If wrong, scum is in a better spot, but will go down to a three person endgame still.

It seems like for scum to have a legitimate chance of winning, they need to try and fakeclaim cop and win, which seems like it's really difficult for them to win.

[Crazy]

Yeah, I'll agree that it's tough on the scum. But considering that the original C9 is favored to scum, I think the "C9 version" of this is balanced towards scum.

What if you made the cop confirmed to be in the setup and the doc 50/50?


2 mafia

1 1-shot cop
1 1-shot doc or townie
3 townies

[Empking]

Pretty sure guaranteeing the one shots makes this very difficult for scum to win if cop claims immediately day one.

Do town lnch day onev in your mind?

[charter]

Pretty sure guaranteeing the one shots makes this very difficult for scum to win if cop claims immediately day one.

Do town lnch day onev in your mind?

Town has to lynch day one, else they go to MYLO with zero information and are essentially random lynching. Unless they no lynch twice, then they go to LYLO, but still with no information. Gotta lynch day one.

[charter]

What if you gave scum a one shot roleblocker? That would eliminate cop claiming day one.

[Crazy]

What if you gave scum a one shot roleblocker? That would eliminate cop claiming day one.

"One-Shot Pie"

[Elephant Hell]

Alternatively, a 1-shot Macho Cop would work, or a 1-shot Jailkeeper. Basically any of the C9 variants designed to prevent follow-the-cop play (can't remember any of the others right now - there is the Unlicensed Doctor, but when the roles are known that's exactly the same as the Macho Cop). I think that making the Doc have a 50% probability of existing might not solve the problem, as the Cop might just claim anyway and treat the game as a lottery.

Anyway: Cop claims day 1, a Townie gets lynched. During the night a Townie dies, the Doc protects the Cop who investigates a player, 40% chance of finding scum, 40% chacne of finding living town, 20% chance of finding dead town. Assuming they find a Mafioso, the Mafioso gets lynched and the Cop gets nightkilled, leading to an endgame of 1 Mafioso vs 2 uncleared town players. Assuming they find a town player, the Mafia can either try to force through a lynch on the sole uncleared town player or they can get lynched, kill the Cop or confirmed innocent and go to an endgame of 1 Mafioso vs 1 uncleared town player and 1 cleared town player. Assuming they target a player who is killed during the night they have nothing, leading to a regular 2 Mafioso, 3 Townie endgame (except the Cop might look suspicious). In all three cases the Mafia isn't guaranteed to lose - it's just that if the Cop successfully investigates a player then the game is almost guaranteed to come down to a 3-player endgame. This is all assuming that the Doc doesn't get lynched (they would probably claim and avoid that though). Again, I may have made a mistake somewhere here.

[charter]

Doc should claim day two before cop gives results. Scum may or may not counter. If they do, chance that the cop investigated them, or the doc, and they are just outing themselves. If they dont, another confirmed innocent.

I think the one shot macho cop would probably be ok. The main problem before was that you could easily get three confirmed townies, which would lead to an endgame with at least one in it.

[Crazy]

Wasn't Bird 7P balanced already? Do we need to weaken the town by making it one-shot?

[iamausername]

Doc should claim day two before cop gives results. Scum may or may not counter.

Scum should definitely counter. If the cop investigated the one remaining townie, it's their only hope.

[Xylthixlm]

Let's make the cop one-shot only on even nights, and the doc one-shot only on odd nights, and make it so the doc can't protect the cop, and give the scum a roleblocker.