Webcomic Wars Mafia: D7- Be Thankful I'm Not The Author

[Tarhalindur]

I should be more specific. I can recruit members of Halfpixel only. I targeted Tarhalindur last night since he was the townliest. I supported the comic massclaim so I could figure out who to recruit. Mufasa and Delathi it looks are the only possibles since populartajo died, so I was going to do one of them tonight and the other the night after to make a three-man mason group, but now it appears that I am going to be NK'd instead, which is why I

really

didn't want to claim.

Disappointing.

Unvote: Vino
Vote: Kise

After Day 1, having mediocre flavor for your claim is a point in your favor (I suspected you would claim power, though I had thought second Doc was more likely).

Big question: Do you know anything about the alignment of the other Halfpixel members? (Being able to confirm Delathi's alignment would be a major help for us).

I'd also recommend trying to mason Delathi over Mufasa tonight (and Mufasa should protect you) - Mufasa, as a claimed protective role, is less likely to survive the night than you are.

Kise needs to fullclaim.

Suspects:
1) SensFan (see earlier)
2) Kise (see comic claim and play)
3) Percy (I suspect he's actually UNK scum, especially given that he seems to get a BONUS on targeting scum).

[Vino]

After Day 1, having mediocre flavor for your claim is a point in your favor (I suspected you would claim power, though I had thought second Doc was more likely).

Then why the hell did you make me claim? You started this massclaim because you said it

wouldn't

out power roles, and you still had me claim despite thinking I was a doc, and that I was not in danger of being lynched? First time I get a non-vanilla role now it's useless, I'm kinda ticked. This looks to me like abuse of power.

Also now you see why I defended Annearchy.

Also I appreciate the advice but I didn't put the question of whom I should recruit up to you.

Also as far as alignment, my role PM doesn't say anything about that, it only says I can make them a mason. If one of them is scum then I expect that I would still be able to recruit them. If they lied about their role I will know though, unless I am RB'd.

Also is anybody else noticing the lack of vanilla roles? Only two flipped or claimed vanilla so far.

[SerialClergyman]

Percy's claim surely has to seal the deal.

A hider usually dies from targetting scum - that's what makes the role important, because you need to choose wisely to stay alive and you also can confirm town because if you're alive the next day, you have a confirmed innocent. Percy's version has neither the detriment of the benefit of this mechanic. In fact, I struggle to see what good it actually does, aside from generally keeping him alive.

Percy's claimed 'version' of the hider gives him a perfect excuse if he was scum every single night. What if someone Percy claimed to have hid with was scum? Oh, never mind, his version of the hider allows that to happen. Why hasn't he died yet? Oh, because he keeps picking non-innocent or non-dying people to hide with.

So he can't confirm innocence or guilt, he can always have a reason for why he's alive, he, in fact, gets a BONUS for hiding with scum (he becomes untouchable) for utterly no reason, other than it makes his claim even more convineient if he was scum.

And all of this hugely convienient role for scum to claim coincidentally falls on the guy who's made the most obvious scumslip all game.

It's utter rubbish, lynch now please.

[Percy]

Vino is on 5 votes, Kise and I are on 4. Deadline is fast approaching. Vote now, people.

Kise is a better lynch than Vino at the moment, in my opinion. Vino can be semi-confirmed by whomever he recruits, whilst Kise can't.

@SerialClergyman: You are so utterly, completely tilted. Are you still going to self-vote when I flip town? If I'm lynched, I'm going to love reading along to see how you get out of the ridiculous hole you've dug for yourself.

[SerialClergyman]

After your farcical claim, which you don't even bother defending, I'd sell my house if you're town.

Your threats are tired.

And even worse - your play has hardly reflected someone who doesn't care at all aobut being NKed, has it? You're hider, you have essentially full impunity to say what you like and scumhunt as hard as possible.

I'd find anyone who made a custom claim which means you never have to make a disprovable comment about anyone else and which explains why you never die at night highly scummy. The fact that it comes from you absolutely and completely seals the issue.

Your play doesn't ring true, your claim doesn't ring true - you're scum.

[SerialClergyman]

Speaking of which, we NEED votes on him. It's nothing like guranteed and all it takes is for one of the other scum to say something like 'I think blah is scummiest of all' and vote them and suddenly the lynch switches.

Percy absolutely should be the lynch after that claim. Time to vote.

[Percy]

After your farcical claim, which you don't even bother defending, I'd sell my house if you're town

What is there to defend? Some people think it's scummy, but I claimed fully and honestly. Furthermore, the "NKimmune and no disprovable comments" idea would apply fully to a claim of Hider, without the extra rule that I don't die if I target scum. Please enlighten me as to why scumPercy would make up that detail.

Also, make sure you post photos of the For Sale sign.

your play has hardly reflected someone who doesn't care at all aobut being NKed, has it?

What?!

I can't believe the lengths you will go to to twist this "case" against me into something believable. You're honestly proposing that I should have been talking about how invincible I am from the beginning of the game?

[Fishythefish]

Hmmm. It is true that the "doesn't die if hides with scum" detail makes Percy's claim worse. Without this, scum-Percy can be outed when he claims to hide with scum (presumably of another faction), who are later killed.

However, other than this I dislike the wagon on Percy. With is confirmable claim, Vino is now a terrible lynch.

unvote, vote Kise

[SerialClergyman]

Furthermore, the "NKimmune and no disprovable comments" idea would apply fully to a claim of Hider, without the extra rule that I don't die if I target scum. Please enlighten me as to why scumPercy would make up that detail.

This is actually a key point, your feigned ignoreance notwithstanding. If you die when you target scum, you can confirm innocence. Each night you'd have to explain who you hid with and each night you'd be therefore able to confirm an innocent if you were alive the next day, or possibly even confirm scum (if for example we arranged you to hide with player x and you died that night, we'd know player x was scum.)

Now if you're scum, this poses a problem - if anyone you ever confirm innocent flips scum, you're outed and an auto-lynch. So you adjusted the claim to suit. Now you will never have to claim anything that later might be disproved. It makes the claim a) much more convinient as a scum fakeclaim and b) less useful to town, because you can no longer give us information via your hides.

You're honestly proposing that I should have been talking about how invincible I am from the beginning of the game?

Nope, I'm saying someone who has no fear of being knocked off at night should be running the joint. You have every reason to be the most loud, obnoxious leader of a scumhunter and that's the opposite of your playstyle so far. You've picked on mediocre players and relatively low-active players and your pressure has been far from strong. You and your playstle do not feel like someone who is essentially NK immune.

@all

Voting Kise is essentially voting a lurker. Kise hasn't claimed and I assume that's because he's not online.He may or may not be scum, but I can't see how Kise's claim could possibly put him in a worse position than Percy at the moment, unless he too claims a tailor-made custom role that's perfect for scum.

[Fishythefish]

Percy's claim is not totally untestable. If we know in advance his target, or better yet select them, then if they are town and die, and Percy doesn't, his claim is disproved. Any killing group not involving Percy has an incentive to kill this player; they either kill two townies at once or, better yet, kill a townie and out a rival scum for a lynch. If Percy is town, he dies, but with the levels of suspicion on him that's not so bad.

[Percy]

I claimed honestly, and I'm sorry if it's not the most convenient thing for you, SC.

Tonight I will hide behind Empking, assuming I'm not lynched. There's a bit of info you can check up later.

Also, the argument that I would have had a different playstyle if I was really NK immune is complete bullshit. Just as bullshit as that I've been a poor participant in this game. I have asked a lot more questions and helped to generate a lot more content than most, and I've been calling it how I see it when I do.

@SC: If I die tonight, I want to see you self-vote and sell your house, please. Otherwise you're a liar, and we all know what happens when someone gets caught in something that might be a lie!

(I don't really want you to self-vote. I think you're desperately wrong and have an overinflated opinion of your scumhunting abilities, and are compromising yourself in an attempt to prove yourself right.)

(I do want you to sell your house though.)

Voting Kise is essentially voting a lurker.

Is this honestly your assessment of the case against Kise?

[Sotty7]

Percy's claim is not totally untestable. If we know in advance his target, or better yet select them, then if they are town and die, and Percy doesn't, his claim is disproved. Any killing group not involving Percy has an incentive to kill this player; they either kill two townies at once or, better yet, kill a townie and out a rival scum for a lynch. If Percy is town, he dies, but with the levels of suspicion on him that's not so bad.

Actually this is a great idea. I was thinking along the same lines of Percy being an un-NKable SK, but this is a good way to test. Of course if Percy is telling the truth, we are going to end up with two dead townies.

Kise hasn't posted on the site since 28th of July. Looks like his sig says he was V/LA until the 31, but just hasn't come back yet. However Vino's and now Percy's claim both seem testable to a degree, so

Unvote, Vote: Kise

What time exactly will the deadline hit does anyone know?

Also the amount of lurking around the deadline is very frustrating.

[Tarhalindur]

After Day 1, having mediocre flavor for your claim is a point in your favor (I suspected you would claim power, though I had thought second Doc was more likely).

Then why the hell did you make me claim? You started this massclaim because you said it

wouldn't

out power roles, and you still had me claim despite thinking I was a doc, and that I was not in danger of being lynched? First time I get a non-vanilla role now it's useless, I'm kinda ticked. This looks to me like abuse of power.

Also now you see why I defended Annearchy.

Also I appreciate the advice but I didn't put the question of whom I should recruit up to you.

Also as far as alignment, my role PM doesn't say anything about that, it only says I can make them a mason. If one of them is scum then I expect that I would still be able to recruit them. If they lied about their role I will know though, unless I am RB'd.

Also is anybody else noticing the lack of vanilla roles? Only two flipped or claimed vanilla so far.

There were several reasons to force the claim:

1) You were one of the top deadline candidates.

2) If you had claimed vanilla instead of power role, I would have asked for your head on the spot.

3) As you might have noticed earlier, I don't care too much about outing power roles at this point (I think I was right here, especially since I strongly suspect you just confirmed Delathi town).

See, I've been trying to break the setup in half for most of the day, and for a good deal of the day this has consisted of trying to confirm a theory. (Said theory is the other, previously unstated reason why I was willing to support name/comic massclaim.) Since I don't want this theory to die with me, and I suspect I get killed tonight, it's time to reveal everything.

It's ironic that you bring up the lack of vanillas, since vanillas are quite central to the pattern I suspect. About midday, I took a look at the list of dead characters and noticed something:

11. Lamont_Cranston - Man with a Hat, XKCD (not lead, revealed Cop)
14. qwints - Elan, Order of the Stick (not lead, revealed Cop)
7. the silent speaker - Davan, Something Positive (lead, revealed Vanilla)
5. Populartajo - Evil Atom, Evil Inc. (not lead, revealed vig)

Notice that qwints, who flipped vanilla, was the lead character of his comic (the character who you see the most of, the primary viewpoint, ala Harry Potter in his series or Frodo in LotR), while the other three (who flipped power) were secondary characters (XKCD, with its loose continuity, lacks any true lead, while I'd call Roy the lead character of OotS and Lightning Lady appears to be the lead of Evil, Inc.)

I also knew one other important piece of information, and since it's important to my thought process now is the time to reveal it: Shadehawk (the lead character of Antihero for Hire) is vanilla (despite making such a good vig character-wise; apparently, I don't get to use the convincing argument of "gun" here).

The primary theories I have been working with:

1) Certain webcomics are likely to compose a "scummy webcomic" faction (I've suspected this since I saw the opening flavor, and qwints's flavor reinforced that suspicion) - specifically, especially notorious comics (the kind that have a massive hatedom and get multiple posts on sites like Your Webcomic Is Bad and You Should Feel Bad). Dominic Deegan falls squarely into this category (there *is* a comic that could be considered more notorious than Deegan, but I haven't seen it claimed so far).

2) Flavor fits poorly with roles (this is the other reason I suspect Percy is lying about his claim).

3) Characters that are the lead in their comic are far more likely to be vanilla, if not certain to be vanilla (I don't have quite enough evidence to be sure of the latter conclusion - which, if correct, means Percy and MoS must be neutral or scum - but the former is a logical inference IMO). This is reinforced by the character claims I've seen so far:

1. Hasdgfas - Ben Franklin's Clone, Dr. McNinja (not lead)
2. Kise (Flameaxe) - Donovan Deegan, Dominic Deegan (not lead)
3. Tzeentch - ???
4. Sotty7 (Slicey) - Cale, Looking for Group (lead)
5. Populartajo - Evil Atom, Evil Inc. (not lead, revealed vig)
6. Mufasa - Jinx, Starslip Crisis (not lead, claimed protective role)
7. The Silent Speaker - Davan, Something Positive (lead, revealed Vanilla)
8. Korlash - Abby, Abby's Agency (lead)
9. Empking - Ryan Beckwith, Scary Go Round (not lead)
10. Delathi - Skull, PvP (not lead)
11. Lamont_Cranston - Man with a Hat, XKCD (not lead, revealed Cop)
12. Santos - Riff, Sluggy Freelance (not lead)
13. SerialClergyman - Tom, Theater Hopper (lead)
14. Qwints - Elan, Order of the Stick (not lead, revealed Cop)
15. Head_Honcho - Gilgamesh Wulfenbach, Girl Genius (not lead)
16. Vino - Dante, Sheldon Comics (not lead, claimed recruiting Mason)
17. roflcopter - ???
18. Sironigous - ???
19. Sajin (xRECKONERx) - Annarchy, Penny Arcade (nonlead)
20. Riceballtail (Timeater) - Kimbly, Silent Kimbly (lead)
21. Percy - Sam, Sam and Fuzzy (lead, claimed Hider )
22. Fishythefish - Jeremy, the Tao of Geek (lead)
23. SensFan - ???
24. ZazieR - ???
25. Tarhalindur - Shadehawk, Antihero for Hire (lead, vanilla)

Note that seven players (Sotty7, tss, SC, RBT, Percy, Fishythefish, Tar) have claimed or flipped lead. My game balance sense says that (assuming multiscum, which seems the better conclusion given Mufasa's claim) we're looking at either 17-4-4 or 16-4-4-1 (more likely the latter) with 5-7 vanillas, which would match nicely with the number of lead characters I've seen claimed (if we see more than one or two lead character claims from the unclaimed, I'll assume those late claims are more likely to be scum).

The claims that don't fit so far:
a) Percy (his hider claim is distinctly odd for other reasons... I suspect he's not town, though Neutral Survivor is a possibility I should account for. If that is the case, take a VERY close look at hasdgfas, given that Sam and Fuzzy has the Ninja Mafia. Hell, take a close look at hasdgfas anyways, his character could be considered a villain).
b) Santos/MoS (claiming vanilla as nonlead doesn't fit, which is why I tried to force MoS to claim before reading the thread).

[Fishythefish]

An interesting theory. Tomorrow the sample size will make it more convincing if it remains true- currently it could well be coincidental.

[Sajin]

unvote; vote Kise

Lets try to get a lynch before deadline.

[Fishythefish]

A majority is not needed for a lynch; the player with most votes will be lynched.

[Head_Honcho]

I'm not familiar with girl genius, but going by your analysis I'll have to tell you that you should drop the nonlead implies definite power role assumption.

[Mufasa]

Hi guys i'm back and thanks for putting that list of claimed names together Tar. Anyone have a vote count?

[Percy]

Unofficial vote count:

Kise (7): Percy, Tarhalindur, Head_Honcho, Vino, Fishythefish, Sotty7, Sajin
Percy (3): SerialClergyman, Empking, roflcopter
Vino (2): Hasdgfas, Mufasa
SerialClergyman (1): Korlash
Mastermind of Sin (1): SensFan
Rolfcopter (1): Riceballtail
Korlash (1): Kise

Note Voting (5): Sironigous, Delathi, Mastermind of Sin, ZazieR, Tzeentch

It's looking like a Kise lynch.

I'll hide behind Empking, and probably die. At least I get to take Empking out with me.

FoS: Head_Honcho

, for his play today.

There might be correlation between leads and power roles, but it's not automatic, at least in my case. @Tar, you may be good at breaking setups, but I sincerely doubt that Gorrad would have made it that obvious. Besides, who is the "lead" in XKCD?

If I do die, this post is a good summation of my thoughts for the last two days.

[SerialClergyman]

Percy - I didn't mean to summarise the case against Kise as a lurker case - I meant to say that voting for him over you because he hadn't claimed was tantamount to voting a lurker - he can't claim if he isn't around.

I'd still prefer to lynch Percy, but I think you clearly specifying who you are hiding with would be an acceptable alternative. If you die and flip hider I'll post the photo of my house for sale.

[delathi]

Vote : Kise

Percy's claim is extremely suspect. I don't see the point in creating that role, but it is clear that he's not getting the lynch tonight, and if he isn't lying, he'll probably die in a two for one tonight.

Kise is the logical remainder.

[Riceballtail]

I'm wondering if those that haven't included their own roles to the massclaim are scum trying to piece together fake claims, or just massively lurking to hopefully avoid another post today.

That said, Kise should claim right now, but since I take his silence as a scum claim,

UNVOTE; VOTE:Kise

. This is L-2, so this should confirm a need to claim, if he were feeling otherwise concerned about it. He's also not said anything since being off V/LA and this worries me more than Vino/Percy right now.

[SerialClergyman]

This post by rbt illustrates my point about kise nicely. I have no problem with his lynch, but don't turn his absense into a scum tell. The guy has an average of 14 posts a day on site and hasn't posted anywhere since he announced his vacation. So to suggest his absense is a sign of him being scum in this specific game is to ignore the far greater liklihood that he just hasn't come back from his vacation yet. If you'd prefer to see the Percy night action and don't want to lynch him, that's fine, by all means vote kise, but anyone citing his lack of a post or claim as scummy is either not doing their homework or just making up a reason for the vote.

[Dr. Melfi]

Sorry guys, I'm back, but I haven't had time to read past the first 10 pages I already did. Is there anything I need to catch up on currently before I sit down to the massively boring 20 page read? I haven't been reading the most recent posts, but I'll check posts after this one just in case there's something important going on that I need to know about.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Whoops, that was me. Mod, feel free to edit this post to contain the above text and delete the above post.