[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Ether]

I don't think that's that bad. (It helps that, when a cop claims, it's dead.)

[farside22]

I don't think that's that bad. (It helps that, when a cop claims, it's dead.)

Personally I would want it tested out. I just see it has more town favorable.

[Ether]

I guess you could add a second tailor. Eh. I still don't think it's unbalanced at all.

[farside22]

I guess you could add a second tailor. Eh. I still don't think it's unbalanced at all.

I guess keep it as is but I would like to hear a few thoughts from others on this. I think you said PF and you talked about it.

[Ether]

Start here.

(2:06:15 PM) CaffieneDeity: You should totally also comment on Bad Tweed.
(2:06:23 PM) kortskorts: it makes my head hurt
(2:06:39 PM) CaffieneDeity: Having a new forum, or a setup with two cops and a tailor?
(2:06:51 PM) kortskorts: the setup with the tailor
(2:07:00 PM) kortskorts: is the tailor a godfather with a goon reveal?
(2:07:27 PM) CaffieneDeity: No, all three scum just have an ambiguous "mafia" reveal.
(2:07:44 PM) kortskorts: so basically, the same thing that i just said
(2:07:48 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(2:07:57 PM) kortskorts: goons and the tailor will flip the same
(2:07:58 PM) CaffieneDeity: The tailor targets a player each night, and if any cops target it, they get the wrong result.
(2:08:04 PM) kortskorts: oh
(2:08:10 PM) kortskorts: the tailor's target
(2:08:14 PM) CaffieneDeity: Yes, they will flip the same.
(2:08:15 PM) kortskorts: i thought the tailor itself
(2:08:18 PM) CaffieneDeity: No.
(2:08:23 PM) kortskorts: okay then
(2:08:43 PM) kortskorts: why not have the tailor flip tailor?
(2:08:56 PM) kortskorts: successful lynch of the tailor should be rewarded with plus knowledge imo
(2:09:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: 'Cause then you have a setup with up to two cops and very little to stop them from breaking the setup in a day or two.
(2:09:35 PM) CaffieneDeity: And that could get ugly.
(2:09:35 PM) kortskorts: oh.
(2:09:41 PM) kortskorts: yeah, point taken.
(2:10:11 PM) CaffieneDeity: It could work just giving the whole mafia a tailoring ability instead of attaching it to one player. Less swingy.
(2:10:41 PM) kortskorts: one less townie
(2:10:47 PM) kortskorts: otherwise the town might have to no lynch
(2:10:54 PM) kortskorts: which gives cops another shot at investigating
(2:11:06 PM) CaffieneDeity: Don't mind that.
(2:11:17 PM) CaffieneDeity: It also gives scum another shot at killing a cop.
(2:11:28 PM) kortskorts: but there are two cops
(2:11:36 PM) kortskorts: two investigations, one kill.
(2:11:57 PM) CaffieneDeity: Hmm. True.
(2:12:23 PM) CaffieneDeity: I tend to assume town will hold off until 4-player endgame or so, but I see your point.

[farside22]

what if the game started in night instead of a day start ether?

[Ether]

We talked about that, too.

I don't think it's a great idea.

[farside22]

We talked about that, too.

I don't think it's a great idea.

Would you play it if I had sign ups for it?

[Ether]

Not likely. I'm not playing in games in general right now, and when I start again, they'll probably be mostly newbies (and a certain minitheme, when it comes up). Sorry.

[Adel]

I altered this a bit:

Bad Tweed

3 mafia goons (group ability: kill, group ability:tailor)
6 vanilla townies
2 unconfirmed & sane cops
1 insane cop
Day Start

The target of the tailor ability has his alignment flipped for investigative purposes for the night.
Mafia can target a member of the mafia with the tailor ability.
If the insane cop investigates a town player who was also targeted by the tailor ability his investigation result will be "innocent"; if the insane cop investigates a mafia player who was also targeted by the tailor ability his investigation result will be "guilty" -- otherwise the insane cop will receive an investigation result that is the opposite of his target's actual alignment.

[farside22]

I altered this a bit:

Bad Tweed

3 mafia goons (group ability: kill, group ability:tailor)
6 vanilla townies
2 unconfirmed & sane cops
1 insane cop
Day Start

The target of the tailor ability has his alignment flipped for investigative purposes for the night.
Mafia can target a member of the mafia with the tailor ability.
If the insane cop investigates a town player who was also targeted by the tailor ability his investigation result will be "innocent"; if the insane cop investigates a mafia player who was also targeted by the tailor ability his investigation result will be "guilty" -- otherwise the insane cop will receive an investigation result that is the opposite of his target's actual alignment.

This makes my head hurt

[Alduskkel]

The only thing Cops are good for in that setup is claiming and then being confirmed through lack of a counterclaim.

[Adel]

The only thing Cops are good for in that setup is claiming and then being confirmed through lack of a counterclaim.

I don't think so.

suppose:
day 1: vanilla townie lynched
night 1: vanilla townie killed
day 2: vanilla townie killed
night 2: vanilla townie killed
day 3: 5 cops claim, each with 1 guilty and 1 innocent investigation result.

Do you see how the town could easily analyze those claims, confirm some players, and find a path to success?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Climax

1 Mafia Rolecop (investigation result is PM'd to the entire team)
2 Goons
2 Masons
1 Vig
1 Bomb
5 Vanilla townies

Day start.

Swingy can be fun

[Alduskkel]

The only thing Cops are good for in that setup is claiming and then being confirmed through lack of a counterclaim.

I don't think so.

suppose:
day 1: vanilla townie lynched
night 1: vanilla townie killed
day 2: vanilla townie killed
night 2: vanilla townie killed
day 3: 5 cops claim, each with 1 guilty and 1 innocent investigation result.

Do you see how the town could easily analyze those claims, confirm some players, and find a path to success?

In that case just nominate a Dethy game.

[Elephant Hell]

Cowardly Mafia again

3 Bulletproof Mafiosi
1 Compulsive Vigilante
8 Townies

Mafia may only make a single nightkill until the Vig dies, at which point they can kill on every night.

snip

[Head_Honcho]

Hey guys, I've been attempting to modify Adel's Donner Party setup into something viable. I have liked the idea since I first saw it and would really like to run a game of it.

I would be altering it from what is described on the wiki though to replace one of the townies with 'a remarkably tasty looking robot' or something who can't be eaten and knows the identity of anyone tries to eat him when he is targeted by a cannibal (could be nked by the noncannibal mafia though). The noncannibal mafia would be an inedible godfather who does not know the identity of whoever tries to eat him. Also the cop would be a dentist or some such who doesn't learn alignment but only if his target eats people (thus vig would return positive on investigation).

I would have the inedibles be lynchable though, so in this case I suppose the townies aren't democratic cannibals driven by hunger, they are just tired of being eaten.

So right now I'm basically looking at:

1 Mafia Godfather
1 Cannibal Mafia Goon
1 Cannibal Serial Killer
1 Cannibal Vig(I'm thinking one nightkill, though he will always be identified as a cannibal)
1 Dentist(Can identify people as cannibals)
1 Tasty Looking Robot(Can not be eaten, can identify who tries to eat him)
6 Townies

I am hoping the godfather and nk immune townie who I am really going to need a better name for will create the interest this setup needed. I can think of many situations in which this game would devolve into a mindfuck, for lack of a better word, which I'm pretty sure is the goal.

I am so very open to suggestions on this. I don't have any experience with balancing games really, but I like these alterations since they sort of help the town a little bit but can also lead to a variety of wonderful claims and situations. For instance, if the vig tries to eat the robot, hilarious hijinks would result.

I have also been considering keeping the original spirit of the idea where they are all cannibals who elect to eat someone each day, making the robot unlynchable as well, but I can't think of an explanation that makes the godfather lynchable without making him also nkable. However I think if the godfather can be nked the robot role would be far too powerful in this case.

Assuming a lynchable robot, what do you guys think of the non cannibal mafia being a godfather? Unnecessary? I thought of having him as a godfather when I was thinking unlynchable robot, but it still seemed like a decent idea after I became sour on that.

[farside22]

I looked at this set up one more time and I think it needs to have another VT added to it

SCIENCE (7 players)
2 mafia (1 goon, 1 encryptor)
3 vanilla townies
2 daymasons
Day Start

If the mason's live to day 2 and claim the mafia is pretty much done even with 1 VT in the game alive

[Ether]

I don't think that's true. You know how it's standard procedure in Pie E7 for the two power roles to claim on Day 2 if they're both alive? This is like that, only without the part where the power roles can confirm any other players like a cop can. (To be fair, they can't be counterclaimed, either.)

Scum still need only one mislynch at that point, and they have a vanilla with the potential.

[Elephant Hell]

Even if a mafioso is lynched they can kill a mason so that the game goes to pretty much the same situation (lylo with a single Townie in the middle).

Tit for Tat Mafia

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Role Cop
1 Mafia Nurse
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Deputy
6 Townies

Daystart. All roles where sanity is a question are confirmed-sane. If the Mafia Nurse becomes a Doctor they can self-protect.

[farside22]

Even if a mafioso is lynched they can kill a mason so that the game goes to pretty much the same situation (lylo with a single Townie in the middle).

Tit for Tat Mafia

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Role Cop
1 Mafia Nurse
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Deputy
6 Townies

Daystart. All roles where sanity is a question are confirmed-sane. If the Mafia Nurse becomes a Doctor they can self-protect.

Not sure what to think. I don't like doctors that can self protect.

[Crazy]

Even if a mafioso is lynched they can kill a mason so that the game goes to pretty much the same situation (lylo with a single Townie in the middle).

Tit for Tat Mafia

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Role Cop
1 Mafia Nurse
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Deputy
6 Townies

Daystart. All roles where sanity is a question are confirmed-sane. If the Mafia Nurse becomes a Doctor they can self-protect.

Not sure what to think. I don't like doctors that can self protect.

Doctors that self-protect aren't an issue unless the doctor is pro-town.

[farside22]

Even if a mafioso is lynched they can kill a mason so that the game goes to pretty much the same situation (lylo with a single Townie in the middle).

Tit for Tat Mafia

1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Role Cop
1 Mafia Nurse
1 Doctor
1 Vigilante
1 Deputy
6 Townies

Daystart. All roles where sanity is a question are confirmed-sane. If the Mafia Nurse becomes a Doctor they can self-protect.

Not sure what to think. I don't like doctors that can self protect.

Doctors that self-protect aren't an issue unless the doctor is pro-town.

There is a vig for the town
A role blocker for the mafia. Having 2 possible roles to stop a vig. ......

[Sanjay]

A mafia doctor has few enough protect targets as is. Maybe a roleblocker and a doctor is too much interference, but I don't see what's wrong with a self-protecting mafia doctor as a rule.

[animorpherv1]

@Farside:

If the Vig shoots the mafia Nurse, who protacted him/herself, vig claims, and lynches a mafia.