California Trilogy: City of Angels - On Camera (Game Over)

[Thok]

I'm OK with ShadowLurker's plan. It's essentially what I described in post 1018 for n=3 (with some extra provisions if we don't get a very good early on in the process.) Whether n=3 is the best choice is another question, but it's irrelevant if the question has already been asked.

[VP Baltar]

I haven't asked the question yet. I will wait until tomorrow morning so people can speak up if they have a better idea. If not, when I log on tomorrow morning around 7am US EST I'm sending off the question.

[Thok]

Would we better off having a more suspicious person ask a question now, when there are plenty of extra questions we can use for testing? (According to my chart that would be one of hewitt/me/Goofballs. I think you people are wrong-headed to have me as suspicious as you do, but whatever.)

[hewitt]

I don't care when or what I'm asking. Just tell me to do whatever and I'll do it. Preferably sooner than later but really...it's whatever.

[VP Baltar]

I think we are best to find a very good first and then we can have the untrustworthy folks go because even if they decide to lie then, it would be exceedingly obvious.

For instance, if I get a yes from my question we know that at least one of the four numbers is a very good. Then we should be able to narrow it down to two with the very next question. If that person lies it would easy to see and we'll still have questions left to figure out where the very good is.

So, not only will we get the very good at that point, but we'll have caught the scum as well. I think the scum actually have a disincentive to lie with this plan because they will likely be caught.

Sending question in the next hour or so.

[Thok]

So we should probably prepare the next question now (but only one question ahead.) Basically, I want to make sure we keep things moving so we actually ask all 7 of our questions.

Obviously, don't ask this until VP Baltar gives an answer.

I assume the plan is something like this:

If the answer to VP Baltar's question is yes, have one of me/DGB/hewitt ask about {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 18, 52}

If the answer is no, Talilan asks about {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 63, 47, 66, 20} (Town is saving Mighty Orbots to go last to check on people and Talilan is considered by our group to be the most trustworthy of the remaining four question askers.)

(I don't necessarily agree with some of the above decisions, but whatever.)

[Talilan]

Why not, Thokker?

[VP Baltar]

MF,

Does the set {74, 14, 39, 23, 51, 18, 52, 37, 69} have the property of containing at least 1 very good?

No.

[Thok]

I'm very much tempted to just say read the last 4 pages of the thread. But for specifics:

I don't agree that you're more trustworthy than me (but that's our group being stupid, IMHO, and unless we have really bad luck there's enough safeguards in check. Actually, looking at the lists I'd be tempted to ask why hewitt and Mighty Orbots have me much less trustworthy than you; I can see why you and Goofballs would have your relative placings of the two of us.)

I also think that working with groups of 4 may be too small. Groups of 8 is probably better, but I should have pushed this issue in post 1027. (I feel that what we lose in being able to test people we gain back in being able to test more numbers.) I don't know if that makes it worth expanding the yes question to have 8 numbers rather than 4 in the next go around.

Also, Goofballs comments sort of make me want to rerandomize (specifically that she posted a plan after the numbers came out.) Nobody else seems to care about this.

Preview Edit: Most of this was written before VP Baltar returned with the answer to the question. I haven't changed anything since seeing his comment.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

And what makes you think that SL's list was not random?

You think I'm going to trust a list made by a possible non-townie over a list provided by SL, the towniest player on this mothaf__in' boat????

No "random" list of numbers provided by anyone but SL can be credibly believed to actually be random.

Crawl back to your dank jail cell before I unleash Unit 02 on you.

[Thok]

"And what makes you think that SL's list was not random?

You think I'm going to trust a list made by a possible non-townie over a list provided by SL, the towniest player on this mothaf__in' boat????"

I believe that SL's list is random. I'm worried that you tried to tailor a plan to take advantage of the list of numbers that SL posted. That doesn't require me to say anything about SL's townieness or scumminess.

[VP Baltar]

Well, given considerable bias, I don't see why you'd think I'm more trustworthy than you in your own eyes. That doesn't even make sense.

I did cross my mind to just pick randomly from the remaining numbers myself off of Kelly's list given the slim chance she is scum and ordered it specifically to screw us, but I trust her enough and that seems more likely to be something scum would do to waste a question.

Asking a set of 8 may not be a bad idea for the next one, and would still leave us with one question to check for lies.

Perhaps have Dweezil go next and Tabris go last.

[VP Baltar]

How could tabris talor a plan around a random list when we are going sequentially down the line?

The odds of Kelly putting up all of the Very bads and bads in a row is ridiculously impossible if you believe the list is random.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

You are incredibly idiotic to even suggest that a set of random numbers would lend itself to one scheme or another, they are random - unless SL was stricken by an incredible stroke of bad luck, like the planets aligning during a solar eclipse.

Oh I forgot, I have a stack of stinking love letters from your fiancé at Folsom. Maybe you'll recognize the "perfume." He complained that life is not the same since you escaped, the new cell mate doesn't seem to like candlelit prison cafeteria dinners and lard massages as much as you did.

[Thok]

"Well, given considerable bias, I don't see why you'd think I'm more trustworthy than you in your own eyes. That doesn't even make sense. "

I was referring to Talilan (your post came in the middle of that discussion), who as a consensus town thinks is more trustworthy than me. (Your list has us as roughly equal, as does SL., at least by rank; there could be a big gap in actually perceived scumminess.)

"How could tabris talor a plan around a random list when we are going sequentially down the line?"

Obviously, she wouldn't give a plan involving going sequentially down the line if SL's numbers had a large number of very good's in them early on and she was scum. (Or, she could give a plan where we wouldn't be able to determine the placement of the very goods even once we asked our questions.)

"You are incredibly idiotic to even suggest that a set of random numbers would lend itself to one scheme or another, they are random - unless SL was stricken by an incredible stroke of bad luck, like the planets aligning during a solar eclipse."

They aren't random once they've been picked! Once we have a sequence, you can doctor a plan around it.

[Thok]

Or as I'll point out, there was an hour between Goofballs' 992 and 993 (both of which come after SL posted his list of numbers), which gives her plenty of time to set up a proposal for a plan.

[GoofballsAndBaloons]

Desperate to spread suspicion around, Godwin, are we?

You're still on the FBI's top ten most wanted list.

[ShadowLurker]

The first number 15 or lower doesn't come until the 15th number in my sequence.

I'm hoping that the scum didn't load up 1-15 as Very Good.

If we can get a consensus, does anyone want to replace one of the numbers we are about to ask next with 5?

[Thok]

Shadowlurker, we've already asked about 14 twice.

[Talilan]

Back and I apologise for the absense.

IF the 'very goods' were stacked anywhere (and that is a low possibility IMO) it would have been Vizzini style (putting the VGs/Poison as far from ourselves as possible) which I think means they would have buried them somewhere in the 40s-60s.
/Just guessing.

Getting up to speed, seems to me we have used two questions, from arguably our two most trusted players and ended up with a list of 9 numbers that we know don't include any Very Goods.

I don't really care who goes next. The difference in scumminess between MY most trusted and MY least trusted on the boat is actually pretty small. I really only trust myselves. Even SL who I agree appears reasonably townish was fingered by Gaspar on his death-bed as someone he (quote) "knows" is scum.

The risk with SL is that he generated the random numbers AND he put forward the plan. Risky and I'd feel better if someone would re randomize the remaining numbers, but I don't know who to suggest does it. Maybe VP Baltar.

I'm quite hoping that we can catch a scum in a lie here, and still pick a very good anyway. That would be a fantastic outcome. I'm feeling lucky, I guess.

~Tal

[Talilan]

Perhaps when a lynch has occured onstage we could have some kind of communication in the form of a picture that represents the person who has been lynched. That way we wouldn't risk SL trying to stunt with a dead actor.

If the person in charge of pictures gets lynched this won't be possible of course, but that's probably not happening today.

~Tal

[ShadowLurker]

Thinking about relieving either Mr. Lewis or Mr. Locke with duty. What do you guys think?

[Talilan]

Why one of those two? And when?

[Talilan]

Carrie, could you please use your womanly charms to get the men into line?... by that I mean you choose the specific order for the people asking the remaining questions.

Godwin should be in charge of helping the remaining people submit the best and most appropriate questions as more information comes to hand.

The rest of us are charged with keeping a close eye on these two and making sure they are acting in the best interest of the town... but I do feel that we would benefit from some firm leadership, especially with Kelly so set on leaving us.

Anyone opposed?

~Tal

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sure what is wrong with the order we already have proposed, since that was arrived at by a concensus.

Apart from Dweezil going last, I don't think anything has changed.

I personally think that the next person should ask their question so we can keep things moving along.