Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[saberwolf]

I'm going to take this and assume that mufasa and whoot were on seperate factions, otherwise this wouldn't have been an issue.

Lynching one or both have them will lead to a scum kill.

Discuss

Except a quick search shows that this is one of 5 games this exact quote appeared in. This tells us nothing.

Do these 5 games all have both of them in it, or just mufasa?

As I am aware this is the only game I have with mufasa that also included whoot.

[Crazy]

1) Do you think it matters a good/experienced player gets elected as HoH?

Not especially, though an experienced person could likely stimulate discussion better. It would be most ideal if the person was town.

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)

I don't think the HoH should be entirely guided by town, but they should have a good reason if they don't.

3) If you are very suspicious of someone, would you pick him together with a seemingly town person if you were HoH to be sure your suspect gets lynched?

Only if I was very suspicious of a particular person.

4) If i were HoH, i would pick ___ and ___

I don't know yet.

I'm going to take this and assume that mufasa and whoot were on seperate factions, otherwise this wouldn't have been an issue.

(??) He's talking about them accidentally posting on each other's accounts; I can't imagine how that is indicative that they can't be scum together.

[saberwolf]

1) Do you think it matters a good/experienced player gets elected as HoH?

Not especially, though an experienced person could likely stimulate discussion better. It would be most ideal if the person was town.

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)

I don't think the HoH should be entirely guided by town, but they should have a good reason if they don't.

3) If you are very suspicious of someone, would you pick him together with a seemingly town person if you were HoH to be sure your suspect gets lynched?

No. My views on who is town is different from everyone else.

4) If i were HoH, i would pick ___ and ___

Zwets and Sens

[PaltryExcuse]

@saberwolf: From what I can tell, this is the only game where both are in. However, it is still a moot point seeing as the exact same message appeared everywhere. It seems crazy to think based on that comment alone that they are on separate teams, and both scum. You seem to have information that is not possible to have at this point. Secondly, your first two answers to Grandi's questions are identical to Crazy's.

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)

Yes. If the player is town then they will tend to listen to town and pick the most nominated player. I read the old BB mafia game from 2007 (linked by farside in the calling thread) and they used a nomination for the two players that should be picked by the HOH for final voting. HOH kept a record of who was nominated. That seemed to work fairly well.

Scum would maybe listen to town for one but probably nominate someone from town or the other faction as the second player. Fairly obvious but it happened in the last game.

The last BB game did not turn out well for town, so adopting the same strategy seems foolhardy.

[saberwolf]

I know the first two are same. i was lazy and had the same view points.

I said they could be in two different factions. town is still a faction, so only one needs to be scum.

The fact that he added the bit about did not discuss roles and such is what makes me think one of them has to be scum. If this is their only game together, then discussing roles would never have to be brought up if they were both on the same scum team, so I'm ruling that out. There is the possibility that they are both town though.

Like I said though, it was a discussion point, something for us to discuss.

[farside22]

@Mod: We haven't heard from hexsixsic6 yet. Nor have they confirmed. Prod time?

He picked up the PM I will prod and if I get no response I will look for a replacement.

HOH votes:

Zwet (1) Kmd4390
Sensfan (4) animorpherv, Crazy, whoot1234, saberwolf
Sironigous (1) Zwet
SlySly (2) PaltryExcuse, Snow_Bunny

[Snow_Bunny]

unvote

I'd ike everyone to answer these questions:

HoH applicationform

1) Do you think it matters a good/experienced player gets elected as HoH?

Not really. What it matters is that such player should be pro-town, and willing to listen to general consensus. A rogue HOH won't likely do us any good.

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)

Yes. The game should develop as a normal game, imo, with the town scumhunting and voting for their favourites. Then, the HoH should nominate the two top suspects, and then eliminate one of them. I think we will gather the most amount of information from this tactic (we can see how other players and the HoH act, unlike what we would gain if the HoH decides everything by itself)

3) If you are very suspicious of someone, would you pick him together with a seemingly town person if you were HoH to be sure your suspect gets lynched?

No. I'd pick the town's top two suspects. If I'm very suspicious of someone that town isn't, I would discuss it with town and expose my case. But if town doesn't want it that way, chances are that I will end up following the people's voice. Gut helps sometimes, but chances are that such gut feeling about the scumminess of another player will end up as a mislynch. Unless I have a very, very strong feeling about someone, I would do as town says.

4) If i were HoH, i would pick ___ and ___

I don't have much now, but let it be note this: saberwolf's post about mufasa struck me as opportunistic, and his laziness on answering the question doesn't help him either. Probably mufasa wasn't in the same scum team as saberwolf, and now he suspects the accounts were in different teams. So, if I had to nominate someone, I'd go with saberwolf for now.

[PaltryExcuse]

I said they could be in two different factions. town is still a faction, so only one needs to be scum.

Sorry. I misread your original comment on the matter. After re-reading it, you don't say that both are scum.

[DisCode]

Here. The replacement of Mufasa has arrived.
Getting to this game right now.

[DisCode]

First of all, I've seen none of the BB US seasons...

On to posts that need some explanations:
Post 41
Sly, I noticed that you later discredit Ani's vote against Sens as it's based upon his play in past games. However, in this post you ask Ani if he has ever seen Sens making good decisions before. If you don't like Ani's reason, then why ask this question?

Post 52
I really don't like Saber's reason for his vote on Sens. He's trying to let the Sens wagon look good, while his reason for that is bad. Sure, it shows that the votes can't come from only one scum faction. However, it doesn't say anything about Sens's allignment and it's still possible that he's scum being supported by townies.
EDIT: Also, not liking his explanation in post 62. It seems he's clouding away each possible lead.

Also, a question Saber. How come you don't want to be HoH?

HoH applicationform

1) Do you think it matters a good/experienced player gets elected as HoH?

Not if we follow the plan of town guiding the HoH. Then I'd vote for the player who gives me the most townish impression.
If we don't follow that plan, I'd still go for the player who gives me the most townish impression, but I do keep in mind his suspicions. And if I disagree, I'll go to the player who's most townish looking after him. If I disagree again, to the third. etc, etc.

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)

Depends on the situation. In other words, the HoH should still think about his own suspicions as well. I don't want a sheep as 'leader'

3) If you are very suspicious of someone, would you pick him together with a seemingly town person if you were HoH to be sure your suspect gets lynched?

No.

4) If i were HoH, i would pick ___ and ___

As of now, Saber for sure. Not sure who the second player would be as there are multiple players who have deserved the honour to get my attention

See my answers in bold. Though I don't like it that you asked these questions, yet didn't answer them yourself.

Post 89
Do not like the use of 'over questioning' in this post from Animorpherv. But what do you want to say with it? Is it scummy to you, annoying, null tell, something else and why?

Post 102
How come you were so late with answering these questions, saber? And also, why would you nominate zwet and SF for lynching if you were HoH, while you support SF in being made HoH?

[Sironigous]

HoH applicationform

1) Do you think it matters a good/experienced player gets elected as HoH?

Honestly, no. I mean, obviously on entry level HoH may seem like a way to hunt scum, i.e. choosing an influential townie and extremely scummy player. But in this style, the HoH primarily has to follow what the group says as a whole - nominations based on the public. Anyone can follow someone else...

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)

I see the power of HoH as an open powerrole. Unlike setups where you automatically die when you're wrong, this one keeps you alive to take any consequences. Should the HoH be guided by town?... well, by completely relying on the town for nominations sets them free from blame. However, acting by himself or herself is suspicious. Overall, the HoH should take what the town says with a grain of salt but still keep his own preferences.

AHA!

This may sound strange, but how about we have a little system where...

HoH nominates his own candidate and posts reasons of the choice, filling out a form similar to this one on why his candidate was chosen. (to be made...)

The rest choose collectively choose a candidate to nominate.

I mean, this way sets better insight into the HoH's viewpoint. True, the HoH's candidate may have less initial influence, but if the HoH really wants that person gone he or she will have to provide a persuasive reason why.

3) If you are very suspicious of someone, would you pick him together with a seemingly town person if you were HoH to be sure your suspect gets lynched?

See above ^_^. But other than that, yes for sure. That is what they do in the real show, aye? .. either that or two extremely scummy players.

4) If i were HoH, i would pick ___ and ___

I am currently undecided on this question.

Though, question for all: is picking 2 scummy players together for nomination or one scummy and one townie player?

nominate: Sironigous for HoH

i feel honored!~ it's not a lynching vote!

[Snow_Bunny]

Ah, right, I forgot. I have never ever watched BB. I'm even not sure what it is. I *think* I saw something similar here on my country, but that's all.

[SlySly]

Sly, I noticed that you later discredit Ani's vote against Sens as it's based upon his play in past games. However, in this post you ask Ani if he has ever seen Sens making good decisions before. If you don't like Ani's reason, then why ask this question?

I was clarifying that the reason behind his vote was based on meta.

[PaltryExcuse]

@Sironigous: In your response to question 2 of Grandi's now oft-quoted questions, you mention that an HoH acting by him/herself is suspicious. Why? Isn't independent thought what we're looking for in an HoH?

[Kmd4390]

Have you another idea on how to choose?

Same as in any mafia game, good old fashioned scum hunting. I don't know about you, but I would prefer a floater get the first HoH as opposed to a member of one of the scum teams. I would be hopeful that our scum hunting gives the HoH some good info as to who they should nominate for eviction and give the rest of us good info as to where we should place our votes on their nominated evictees.

Hmm... So, instead of scumhunting we should go with townhunting? Sounds interesting. Right now, I'm getting the most town vibes from you, so...

Nominate: SlySly

Pretty sure he never said that. In fact, I'm pretty sure he said we should scumhunt like any other game.

If I were HoH, I'd nominate Saber and Paltry

Why nominate these people in particular?

Because along with Snowbunny, you are my top suspects right now. I want to try to nominate scum if I'm HOH.

Does that mean there is a reason behind your vote for zwet?

Yep. Who the HOH chooses to (or not to) nominate can give us some info on them. A lot of people seem to have trouble reading Zwet, so why not give him first stab at HOH?

--------------

Sens, I don't know the list system you are talking about.

-------------

HoH applicationform
1) Do you think it matters a good/experienced player gets elected as HoH?
Answer: Not really. Meh, maybe it's better for an experienced player to get it because that's who probably has the best chance of hitting scum. But if a poor player makes decisions that make them obvscum, that's just as good for town.

2) Do you think HoH should be guided by town? (as in, we still vote, and HoH picks the highest 2 in the VC)
Answer: It's the HOH's choice. If they want to be guided, fine. I personally wouldn't let everyone else tell me who to nominate. I'd listen to suggestions, but that doesn't mean I'd follow them.

3) If you are very suspicious of someone, would you pick him together with a seemingly town person if you were HoH to be sure your suspect gets lynched?
Answer:If I'm suspicious enough of a player, sure. But I'd make sure the pawn is someone who no one seems to suspect.

4) If i were HoH, i would pick ___ and ___
Answer: Saber and Paltry right now. Snow could make my list too.

I just don't want to see this turn into Sen's tree stump game, All talk and no direction.

I'll scumhunt if needed, but I much rather get the ball rolling now, it just makes it easier is all.

This is a scummy post. "Hey, let's not scumhunt. Let's not talk about who is scum. Let's all direct each other with no reasoning at all".

What am I really going to findout 1 page into Day 1? I think your over questioining, imo.

You won't find anything. If you don't look at least.

I don't want HoH

Why?

---------------

Saber is right. Grandi and Dis aren't scum together.

Note: I don't care that this appeared in other games.

[PaltryExcuse]

Do I get to know why you think I'm suspicious?

[Sironigous]

@Sironigous: In your response to question 2 of Grandi's now oft-quoted questions, you mention that an HoH acting by him/herself is suspicious. Why? Isn't independent thought what we're looking for in an HoH?

wait, we are looking for independent thought? >.< I feel like the HoH will just turn into a title name controlled by town on the risk of suspicion. I mean, if the HoH comes up with "unfavorable nominations" it casts suspicion on him or her, which is probably not what they want...

i dunno! However you look at it!

[PaltryExcuse]

To a certain degree, yes, independence is what I'm looking for. If I don't see someone thinking for themselves and just going with the group whenever it can be a huge hinderance. Personal thought is important for the HoH so that way scumhunting is more profitable instead of just wooing the crowd.
'Unfavorable' nominations could weed out hiding scum... or it could hurt town. Still, I think it foolish to deny the HoH that freedom. If they make scummy nominations, they deserve to be under suspicion, rather than just go with the town.

[Kmd4390]

Paltry,

-you started the game with non-game conversation.
-You nom'd Sly simply for asking questions.
-I didn't like your question to Saber about "semi-random".
-Your HOH application seems to overly stress that we need a town HOH. It seems obvious enough and shouldn't have to be forced in there like that. The question had nothing to do with alignment. Only experience and skill.
-I don't like that you can't give two suspects yet, but are confident enough that Sly is town that you are willing to nominate him. If this were a normal game, I'd like to know who you'd be voting right now.
-You seem too quick to discount Grandi and DisCode having to be on opposing factions (or both town). But the logic is there.

Though you do have these town points:
-I like most of your HOH application. I tend to agree with a lot of what you said.
-You are right to question Grandi about posting his own application

[Kmd4390]

if the HoH comes up with "unfavorable nominations" it casts suspicion on him or her, which is probably not what they want...

If doing what I think will get scum lynched makes me look scummy, I'll do it anyway.

[Sironigous]

If doing what I think will get scum lynched makes me look scummy, I'll do it anyway.

Blah. TRUE! It's just the outcome that could do not so good stuff. eh...

bleh, open vig. -_-

'Unfavorable' nominations could weed out hiding scum... or it could hurt town. Still, I think it foolish to deny the HoH that freedom. If they make scummy nominations, they deserve to be under suspicion, rather than just go with the town. 'Unfavorable' nominations could weed out hiding scum... or it could hurt town. Still, I think it foolish to deny the HoH that freedom. If they make scummy nominations, they deserve to be under suspicion, rather than just go with the town.

I guess I'm fine with any nominations with, well, valid reason and logic...

---

What do you guys think we should do about gut feeling nominations? XD

[SlySly]

Hmm... So, instead of scumhunting we should go with townhunting? Sounds interesting. Right now, I'm getting the most town vibes from you, so...

Nominate: SlySly

Pretty sure he never said that. In fact, I'm pretty sure he said we should scumhunt like any other game.

She is not too far off. My meaning was that we should scumhunt to expose them and put town in power. That could be interpretted as townhunting.

------------------------------------------

Does that mean there is a reason behind your vote for zwet?

Yep. Who the HOH chooses to (or not to) nominate can give us some info on them. A lot of people seem to have trouble reading Zwet, so why not give him first stab at HOH?

Giving someone HoH because they are hard to read seems a little strange to me; almost scummy. I would prefer having someone that is more of a clear town read in as the first HoH. It is really the only time in the entire game where it is a collective decision as to who gets put in power. After that, if I have read correctly, whoever gets evicted names the next HoH. The only wildcard in this game is the Coup d'etat which we definitely don't want in the hands of scum.

--------------------------------------------

If doing what I think will get scum lynched makes me look scummy, I'll do it anyway.

I can appreciate what you are saying here, but there is no lynching in this game. If something you did as HoH is unacceptable, you will have to be put on the block by a later HoH and evicted by everyone else. That creates somewhat of a safety cushion in this game for rogue players, which, imo, makes it easier for scum to go against town wishes as HoH. It is not as simple as, you screwed up and we are going to lynch you for it. If you aren't put on the block for your scummy actions, you won't be lynched for them like in a regular game of mafia.

[PaltryExcuse]

Paltry,

-you started the game with non-game conversation.
-You nom'd Sly simply for asking questions.

I admit, the initial question was just for friendly conversation. Not really pro-town (though I would argue it's just null as the question was during the confirmation stage). I nom'd Sly since he seemed to be doing scumhunting, I can easily remove my nom later if Sly does something to change my mind.

-I didn't like your question to Saber about "semi-random".
-Your HOH application seems to overly stress that we need a town HOH. It seems obvious enough and shouldn't have to be forced in there like that. The question had nothing to do with alignment. Only experience and skill.
-I don't like that you can't give two suspects yet, but are confident enough that Sly is town that you are willing to nominate him. If this were a normal game, I'd like to know who you'd be voting right now.

Do you not like me questioning Saber of his use of 'semi-random'?
At only 2 days in (of a possible 7) I don't feel strong enough in my viewpoints to say who I'd nom if HoH.

-You seem too quick to discount Grandi and DisCode having to be on opposing factions (or both town). But the logic is there.

About the Grandi/DisCode thing: They (Mufasa & Whoot) were in a game together (StrangerCoug's Deja Bastard), and on the same faction (town), however Slatorade did not put his copied post into that game interestingly enough. However, I still think it's a big giant null. The fact that it was copied into 4 other games gives me this impression. This is more a disagreement than scummy either way. I thought it was crazy to assume that they had to be on different factions.

[saberwolf]

I don't want to be HoH because I'm too easily influenced, and I know there are people in this game that are far better at making good decisions than me. Also, let the ones who do become HoH die. I rather stick to my pursuit of non meta and have you guys lynch me for my scummy behaviour then to generate meta as HoH and be NKed later. I don't give a shit about you guys, it's only about surviving as long as I can on my own for me. Yeah, it's anti-town, I admit it, but then again, I already said I don't give a shit.

By listing the people I nominated for HoH as the people I would lynch, I have also put you back to null ground, as you now have no information on me whatsoever. Best part is, looking at the pattern, I'm going to be the first lynch no matter who is HoH, and I'll walk away smiling because you so called scumhunters suck ass at it because this always happens when I'm town. I've yet to lose a scum game though...lol.

So yeah, permission to continue, carry on

[SlySly]

I rather stick to my pursuit of non meta and have you guys lynch me for my scummy behaviour then to generate meta as HoH and be NKed later.

There is no night in this game.

By listing the people I nominated for HoH as the people I would lynch, I have also put you back to null ground, as you now have no information on me whatsoever.

Perhaps you forgot the statement you made immediately prior to this one.

I don't give a shit about you guys, it's only about surviving as long as I can on my own for me. Yeah, it's anti-town, I admit it, but then again, I already said I don't give a shit.

You are anti-town, nothing null about it.