Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[Crazy]

@Sly - You seem to be trying to make Llama slip up and contradict himself, with no real case other than that.

Let me ask you: Why would Llama supporting Kmd over you be scummy? You said it yourself - both you and Kmd have saber as your primary suspect; if Llama was scum, why would it matter to him who becomes HoH if saber is dead either way?

Personally, I am also favoring Kmd as HoH because I like his secondary choices (Snowbunny, in particular). I realize that saber is still probably dead anyway, but there's not a whole lot I can do about that.

@Mr Finch - That was a really weird post. What do you have against voting for someone?

[saberwolf]

I've completely forgotten what I did to make myself scummy...anyone wanna remind me? I'm too lazy to check for myself...

[SlySly]

@Sly - You seem to be trying to make Llama slip up and contradict himself, with no real case other than that.

Let me ask you: Why would Llama supporting Kmd over you be scummy?

His support for kmd in itself is not scummy. I have just been trying to get a straight answer out of him about the reasoning of his vote.

[Snow_Bunny]

@Crazy: What's in me that you would nominate me to evict?

[Crazy]

@Sly - You seem to be trying to make Llama slip up and contradict himself, with no real case other than that.

Let me ask you: Why would Llama supporting Kmd over you be scummy?

His support for kmd in itself is not scummy. I have just been trying to get a straight answer out of him about the reasoning of his vote.

Would it be scummy if he had bad reasoning? I'm assuming you'd say "yes," but I don't see why it would be.

@Crazy: What's in me that you would nominate me to evict?

Your previous posts look like you were just trying to look active without really saying much. Who are you suspicious of?

[farside22]

HOH votes:

Zwet (1) Kmd4390
Sensfan (2) animorpherv, Grandi
SlySly (5) PaltryExcuse, Snow_Bunny, saberwolf, Sironigous, Zwet
Paltry (1) DisCode
Discode (1) MrFinch
Kmd (2) Llamafluff, Crazy

HOH decided on Tuesday Dec 1st 4:16pm PST
Prods going out to anyone that has not posted in the last 48 hours or longer.

[SlySly]

Would it be scummy if he had bad reasoning? I'm assuming you'd say "yes," but I don't see why it would be.

Not entirely, unless kmd is proven to be scum. If that happens, Llama's strong support of kmd will look very suspicious whether his reasoning was good or bad. I have been trying to eliminate people from my consideration for HoH today and that is where the entire discussion with Llama originated for me.

[Crazy]

Would it be scummy if he had bad reasoning? I'm assuming you'd say "yes," but I don't see why it would be.

Not entirely, unless kmd is proven to be scum. If that happens, Llama's strong support of kmd will look very suspicious whether his reasoning was good or bad. I have been trying to eliminate people from my consideration for HoH today and that is where the entire discussion with Llama originated for me.

Well, that's interesting, because there's a hole in your logic.

You say it's weird that Llama supports Kmd over you since you both have the same primary suspect. That is to say, saberwolf would get nominated regardless if you or Kmd were HoH, right?

If we go to Llama's perspective, assuming he's scum with Kmd, he can do one of the following:

a. Try to get Kmd (his scumpartner) nominated, so saber is evicted.
b. Try to get Sly nominated, so saber is evicted.

Why would Llama-scum care at all who gets HoH if the person getting evicted is the same?

[SlySly]

If we go to Llama's perspective, assuming he's scum with Kmd, he can do one of the following:

a. Try to get Kmd (his scumpartner) nominated, so saber is evicted.
b. Try to get Sly nominated, so saber is evicted.

Why would Llama-scum care at all who gets HoH if the person getting evicted is the same?

Llama's stated problem with my choices has been my stated 2nd choice of Sens. Maybe Llama-scum is buddies with Sens-scum and doesn't want to see his buddy on the block.

[Mr Finch]

@llamafluff

While I have no major issue with SlySly for HoH right now, I do have an issue with the way you are pushing so hard for me to change my vote.

Why? Your pick WILL NOT WIN HoH. Its as bad as not voting.

You're right, it won't. I still think it's the best vote right now and that's where it's staying.

On Sensfan:

He was proactive, brought up decent points about limitations of HoH nominations. If we have some limitations, we control scum a bit when they become HoH. Its a smart thing to do, but he has buggered off at this point.

No, he wasn't. He specifically said what HE would do if HE were HoH, nothing about limitations of HoH noms. Unless you're reading into his one post something that I missed.

On reasoning:

Its a really good reason really. You should be voting the person which has the highest chance of getting nommed that will most likely put up your picks for scum.

So, you're saying that essentially, I should be a sheep, follow your direction and vote for KMD or Sly? I got rammed earlier in the game for changing my nomination so quickly and now you're on my case to do exactly that.

Even if someone new suddenly changed their mind to what I wanted right before deadline, moving my vote there wouldnt accomplish anything.

And yet you still want me to change my vote right before deadline. It will accomplish nothing so what's the point?

Ani and Grandi at least are voting the same person, so its a wagon, albeit a small wagon.

And yet you told them to change their votes too. Two votes does not a bandwagon make in my book.

-------

um, all in all with this talk over secondary choices.

it seems like the saber is going to be voted off anyway - KMD, Sens, Llama, Finch, Zwet, Snow, SlySly, discode, and Palty are all against saber. (9 - either way, saber is voted off)

...Secondary choices don't matter?

still waiting for the others to realise this

Do you really not care that you are the top of the hitlist? I don't really are if you are sum or not. I want you gone, you are being a pain in the ass. If you are town then you are doing a really bad job of it. If you are scum (which I think you are) then you are just being an ass to your scumbuddies.

^this

What??? And crazy says

my

post was weird?!

I support SlySly for mayor.

Unnominate; nominate SlySly

Nobody has called you on this and your input so far has been minimal. I want to know why you are supporting SlySly, why you used the word "mayor" and who your nominations for eviction are going to be.

@Mr Finch - That was a really weird post. What do you have against voting for someone?

Why was it weird? I have nothing against voting for someone. You'll see that I have a nomination and I am happy with it. What I don't like is Llama trying to force me to change my vote with no other reason than "you're throwing your vote away".

@SlySly - Like Llama, I can't see your reasoning for thinking that Sens is scum. I really don't like that he's not posting though. However, I also can't see why Llama is targeting Paltry. So far Paltry has done nothing worse than calling me out for changing my initial nomination so quickly.

I have quite clearly stated that my first choice is Saber. Right now, my second choice has to be Llamafluff.

[SlySly]

@SlySly - Like Llama, I can't see your reasoning for thinking that Sens is scum.

Right after Crazy and whoot posted back to back votes for Sens. saber responds immediately with the following...

However, I'll give you food for thought:

unnominate; nominate: sensfan

now three people nominated him, and we can't all be on his faction.

Well, the thought it gave me was that he saw his scumbuddy getting some quick votes built up and decided to move his vote off zwet and on to his scumbuddy to get someone from his faction in power. After I pointed it out, it was never disputed. Since then, Sens has been in full lurker mode.

[SensFan]

Sorry guys, I completely forgot about this game; it didn't make it on to my Watched Topics. Just got prodded.

I'll be reading up asap, and will have a post for you all.

[SlySly]

I wonder if we should expect and influx of "I completely forgot about this game" posts now. Seems awfully convenient to me. For the record, this game is not in my Watched Topics and I can't recall ever forgetting about a game that I signed up for.

[SensFan]

k, so I just finished reading the thread.

Vote: KMD

I don't particularily know if I agree with his choices of who to nominate or not, but at this point it is absolutely crucial that SlySly not get the post of HoH, since it is remarkably obvious to anyone that's reading the game that he isn't even bothering to provide a decent cover for his blatant attack on me. In a broader sense, he is also just not making any sense in general; as an example, it's clear to anyone with a brain that there are dozens of reasons Llama would support KMD over Sly.

Sly's last post is just ridiculous, and shows he is just doing anything he can to throw mud at me. Let's look over this in detail, shall we?

1 - He claims that the topic not being on my WT means nothing since the game isn't on his WT, but then explains that he doesn't use WT (or at least obviously not the same way as I do), making his point moot
2 - He is prematurely setting me up to look like I'm setting a pattern of people, when I clearly cannot be held accountable for anyone else who may be lurking and shows up
3 - In particular, anyone who had gone 48 hours was just prodded. Of course they'll all show up now, and he's already blaming me for when this happens
4 - I'm rather certain SlySly has played with me before, but that's not that important; if he had bothered doing any meta of me, he'd see that it's not the first time I've made a post or two, then nothing until I was prodded, and explained that the game wasn't put on my WT
5 - He seems to think I would have had anything to gain by purposefully lurking, which is completely preposterous. At the time I 'disappeared', I was one of the leading candidates for HoH, and made a post 'campainging' for myself, which shows I wanted the position. Therefore, Town or Scum, it makes no sense for me to choose to virtually throw away a chance at getting HoH

I urge anyone who sees this to vote KMD or myself, so that someone other than SlySly gets the power; it's evident that Sly isn't thinking rationally.

[PaltryExcuse]

So who are you looking at putting up for possible lynching if HoH, SensFan?

[SlySly]

it's clear to anyone with a brain that there are dozens of reasons Llama would support KMD over Sly.

Dozens? I find it interesting that he is having trouble coming up with one that is reasonably true.

[SensFan]

I just gave five, all based on a 2-line post of yours.

I can remember off the top of my head that's he's given you several: he wants me HOH, not gone; you have no reason to put me up for nomination just because of stuff saber did; etc...

[SlySly]

I just gave five, all based on a 2-line post of yours.

I can remember off the top of my head that's he's given you several: he wants me HOH, not gone; you have no reason to put me up for nomination just because of stuff saber did; etc...

I'm looking for Llama's reasoning for his vote, not Sens reasoning for Llama's vote. The only reasonable thing he said about the reasoning behind his vote was multiple HoH wagons. Everything else was that he preferred kmd's opinion over mine even though the opinions, based on what has been posted so far, are exactly the same.

Read again, I never said my 2nd choice was set in stone. I just put your name in as a response to a question that was prefaced with, and I paraphrase, "if based on what I have now".

[PaltryExcuse]

KMD vs. SensFan vs. SlySly

KMD:
Seems to be pro-town.
He is actively scum-hunting, however, his clues have led him to me... So although I think he's pro-town, I don't really want him to be HoH as I think I will be nom'd and I know he's putting up a townie.
Secondly, what puts doubt in my mind is:

I also think that, if town, Zwet can catch a scum. I'm confident in his ability as far as scumhunting.

Zwet has avoided questions, and provided no reasons for his nominations. He just has nominated. He hasn't answered why lynching scum today implies a scum HoH, or responded to Llama pointing out a contradiction. From what I can tell, his reason for nomming Sly is because he thinks Saber is the inevitable lynch.
How can he Nominate someone like this for HoH? It seems based on the fact that if town, he knows Zwet to be a good scumhunter. Woo, dependence on meta.
These two factors together make it pretty much impossible for me to support him for HoH.

SensFan:
All I have on SensFan for what he'd do as HoH is the system used in a Kingmaker game. Seems logical enough. However, other than "Not SlySly for HoH", I still don't know who he would put up himself. Who do you suspect SensFan?

SlySly:
He started asking questions instead of depending on meta as the sole reason for nomming someone for HoH, which I'd prefer. Merit over actions unrelated to this one. (This might be my inexperience talking, but my faith in meta is limited.) This entailed the entire reason I voted for him so early.
The most recent exchange between him and Llama is very interesting.

I dont see paltry or SB as excellent lynches, just people who are hovering around neutral. I do see choices of yours as bad lynches. It is more likely for me to have a neutral lynch become a good lynch then a bad lynch become a good lynch.

Llama comes off as a rational thinker in this post. He isn't guaranteeing anything, but is weighing the best options for town from his POV. (Unfortunately... again my name pops up.) I do agree that people need to treat this as a deadline lynch (or in this case a deadline promotion) and get on a side they are most comfortable as being HoH.
Sly's decision to nominate SensFan was based on Saber's vote for him. At this point, I see Saber as a random, slightly scummy element to this game, and is out for enjoyment rather than to play it early on. I don't agree with a SensFan nomination.

Problem: I would prefer a LlamaFluff HoH at this point. A bit aggressive, logical, and independent, plus I agree with his point of view on Zwet. I think it's too late to get a bandwagon started on him (unfortunately he had to replace in midgame).

I'm keeping my vote on Sly for three reasons:
1) I think we've narrowed down our choices to the 3 with more than 1 vote at this point.
2) Kmd is going to nominate 1 person incorrectly from my knowledge guaranteed, and the other has given me few answers as to how he sees the game other than in the case against Sly.
3) I can see the Sens nomination making sense if he doesn't tell us soon who he is suspecting. I have no idea, unless I take Llama's reasoning for nominating Kmd (he sees the me and SnowBunny as good secondaries) as the people he finds suspicious.

[SensFan]

Personally? I suspect saber and SlySly, if I had to pick two people.

But, of course, that has nothing to do with who I would nominate. I find it astonishing that people are willing to let someone who was picked in a week decide on their own who to nominate. It makes no sense.

[animorpherv1]

Why is everyone worried on the second pick? We all know saber is going first.

um, all in all with this talk over secondary choices.

it seems like the saber is going to be voted off anyway - KMD, Sens, Llama, Finch, Zwet, Snow, SlySly, discode, and Palty are all against saber. (9 - either way, saber is voted off)

...Secondary choices don't matter?

still waiting for the others to realise this

[SlySly]

I find it astonishing that people are willing to let someone who was picked in a week decide on their own who to nominate. It makes no sense.

I guess you find it better to nominate based on meta, one post or reasonless? That is what has been happening in your time of forget and that is what makes no sense.

[PaltryExcuse]

No, I don't think any HoH should choose entirely independently on his own. Hopefully he will take into consideration whether or not the majority of town would like you to be nom'd for lynch, and I get the impression he will.
Kmd, however, seems to find me scummy, and I get the impression he will put me up.
I wanted to see where your thoughts were lying before I could consider you as a possible HoH, especially considering all active players have announced their nomination choices if it were a completely independent choice.

I agree with both of you. It is crazy to assume that the HoH should be completely separate from the group, but also crazy to base it on meta like many people were doing...

But if we do take into account PJ's plan, the HoH can put whomever they like on the execution list, so long as they also provide reasons.
Since you've answered my question, what little I was doubting about you (SensFan) has disappeared and has made you more neutral in my eyes. I don't find Sly as suspicious as you find him either. I wouldn't put either of you on the execution list.

I'll try to be on as much as possible before the deadline, so if we can get the votes for a LlamaFluff HoH I'm all for it.

[PaltryExcuse]

Why is everyone worried on the second pick? We all know saber is going first.

We don't know that for sure. It seems likely at this point, but what if saber wins the veto power?

[SlySly]

what if saber wins the veto power?

This ain't tv. There won't be any winning POV in this game.

If any special powers exist in the game (ie: power of veto), they will be a one-shot ability that can be passed onward to other players