Xyl's Anime Bastard Chaos - Game Over!

[Snow_Bunny]

I can claim, but why should I claim name and series of origin? What would that do? (although with my abilities, it should be obvious my character).

I'm a town cop. I have two abilities, Data Hack that allows me to get a message a target player sent in a QT (if any); and Ghost Hack that allows me to redirect. I can only use one per night. Neither of them are supernatural.

Night 1 I checked on FL. He didn't use a QT.
Night 2 I checked Cobalt. I found a message I think it's quite pro-town. He posted a list of who was town, and he was on it. He also was happy that he figured out the game, and that it was going to be easy to win.
Night 3 I checked on Slicey. A message with at least Ort, talking that they should claim everything. He says he has role info that immortals are anti-town. He also says that he planned on targeting Sajin, and use Lead the King, in case Tar tried to target him.

And, that's all. That's why I say Cobalt isn't scum. And, Tar, what about Bogre? Why can't he be the last scum?

[Slicey]

Cobalt is the roleblocker guys.

[Boxman]

@Snow: It's unlikely that Bogre is scum because that would mean there is no VT and that there were two scum in the Haruhi masonry.

[Unright]

Let's get it done, folks: Geass Unright, then lynch Boxman.

Uh... WTF? You're supporting the move to tke the ability to kill away from me and to give it to the guy who's win condition is to kill both you & me?

Absolutely fuckin' a brilliant, Tar.

[Slicey]

I don't gain that ability. >______>

Unright, I order you to never kill again.

[Slicey]

That's Geass BTW.

[Unright]

Hmm.. I'm fairly certain that Tar is lying his ass off.

I asked Tar what his win condition was and he took a long ass time to answer. When he did answer, he said that he had the normal 100% town win condition.

Now I've pretty much handed him the game on a silver platter. But he's not bitting, instead he's doing backflips to try to help Slicey win.

I Role Inspected Slicey and it said nothing about his cult recruit win condition and certainly nothing about needing to kill immortals. So WTF is going on...

Silcey claims to be a cult recruiter with the goal of killing off immortals. This agrees with his discarded earlier game-theory that all immortals are scum. Tarhalindur admits to being immortal (plus is mod-confirmed as immortal because he survives a super-saint attack).

This is about the point where I note that it's suspicious that Slicey is claiming that all of his cult recruits happen to match up with mafia NKills and has a "failed" recruit on Tar.

So far the play today is looking like Tar is helping Slicey. And vice-versa. I've handed the game to the town on a silver platter and instead of going for it, the town is scheming to eliminate me. WTF is going on?

@Tar:

What is you win condition?

@Slicey: I know you're lying about your win condition. I doubt that Xyl set up a game where you need 8 kills to win. I'm sure you can win if your cult recruits out-number the immortals. It's still winnable for you, but it's counter to my win condition. However, I need you alive. Funny, huh?

Oh, and your Geass won't work the way you worded it, so good job on that.

[Tarhalindur]

Hmm.. I'm fairly certain that Tar is lying his ass off.

I asked Tar what his win condition was and he took a long ass time to answer. When he did answer, he said that he had the normal 100% town win condition.

Now I've pretty much handed him the game on a silver platter. But he's not bitting, instead he's doing backflips to try to help Slicey win.

I Role Inspected Slicey and it said nothing about his cult recruit win condition and certainly nothing about needing to kill immortals. So WTF is going on...

Silcey claims to be a cult recruiter with the goal of killing off immortals. This agrees with his discarded earlier game-theory that all immortals are scum. Tarhalindur admits to being immortal (plus is mod-confirmed as immortal because he survives a super-saint attack).

This is about the point where I note that it's suspicious that Slicey is claiming that all of his cult recruits happen to match up with mafia NKills and has a "failed" recruit on Tar.

So far the play today is looking like Tar is helping Slicey. And vice-versa. I've handed the game to the town on a silver platter and instead of going for it, the town is scheming to eliminate me. WTF is going on?

@Tar:

What is you win condition?

@Slicey: I know you're lying about your win condition. I doubt that Xyl set up a game where you need 8 kills to win. I'm sure you can win if your cult recruits out-number the immortals. It's still winnable for you, but it's counter to my win condition. However, I need you alive. Funny, huh?

Oh, and your Geass won't work the way you worded it, so good job on that.

Unright, you don't fucking get it, do you?

1) I'm town, with no alternate win conditions (contrary to my deception of you in the QT last night). That means that I need to ensure that the town wins EVEN IF YOU'RE LYING. (Any hesitancy in replying in QT over the last night or two has been mainly due to limited access due to finals and studying for the same, though part of the Night 3 delay was due to deciding exactly how to falseclaim to bluff my way into Day 4.)

Note that I've been willing to permit you to get into a 3-player endgame provided that I know I'm not handing the game to the Mafia if you're lying about that alternate win condition. However, I'd be an IDIOT to ignore how even a 3-1 endgame with you and three townies surviving could result in a Mafia win (assuming that the vote removal does not reduce the number of votes to lynch* - thus forcing no lynch at best at endgame - and that you could then NK me for the win the night after, since you KNOW that I've lost my Immortal shield).

* - I'm not certain about this being the case, but I've been planning out worst case scenarios to lock down a town autowin.

2) I copied Role Inspect onto Sajin last night, and the results I received are consistent with the win con that Slicey has claimed. As such, I find it plausible that his win condition actually exists, though I can't rule out a hidden clause where cult autowins if it sufficiently outnumbers immortals.

3) Given that Slicey seems to be telling the truth about his N3 recruit and who he claimed to recruit N1, he's probably telling the truth about the latter as well.

4) As far as I can tell, the Mafia is currently the larger threat to the town than Slicey - he's unlikely to have successfully recruited living players, he's probably telling the truth about his win condition, and (most importantly) he doesn't kill and roleblock players.

Once the Mafia Roleblocker goes down (allowing me to block all Mafia killing abilities for a night by copying Zazie's presumed 1-shot roleblock onto you tonight while ortolan/dramonic nab the Death Note; my primary goal right now is making sure that this goes down before the end of the day) Slicey becomes a bigger threat to the town than the Mafia is, and as such tomorrow we will lynch the hell out of Slicey if I have ANYTHING to say about it (possibly assisted by a vig kill, since at that point Slicey has to WIFOM as to which players can send a kill his way with the Death Note or the merc ability). We shouldn't have to worry about his recruits, because I have rolebased that he adds an ALTERNATE win condition. After that, if I'm alive I'll consider whether it's worth it to give you a chance to reach your claimed alternate win condition.

Of course, there's a level of WIFOM for you to keep in mind about exactly how I'll act while this plays out (remember, I can now copy Lead With the King!)... but this should summarize nicely why your claim that I'm lying is a piece of crap.

[Cobalt]

As far as I know my ability is not supernatural. It doesn't say it's supernatural, so I assume it isn't. The name if the ability is Mercenary, if you need it. And I already claimed series/name. Also, I can't target the same person twice (that would be tarh/chamber/ortolan).
In addition, I can confirm Snow's paraphrase of my QT post, and am confident she has that ability.

[Bogre]

Doesn't Slicey possibly have a kill, if all of his recruits die?

[ortolan]

dram is town, confirm I am a minion who has been using voteblock abilitites and shiz. Also for some reason my voteblock on Cobalt didn't work night two so I had to choose a new target.

I don't really know why no-one is considering that Slicey Unright and Tar are all scum together, this is a 16-player game after all. Calling for someone to be lynched other than the claimed scum is mighty fishy. We definitely should kill Unright today, and we can steal Slicey's item thingo- can anyone tell me what that is?

[Tarhalindur]

dram is town, confirm I am a minion who has been using voteblock abilitites and shiz. Also for some reason my voteblock on Cobalt didn't work night two so I had to choose a new target.

I don't really know why no-one is considering that Slicey Unright and Tar are all scum together, this is a 16-player game after all. Calling for someone to be lynched other than the claimed scum is mighty fishy. We definitely should kill Unright today, and we can steal Slicey's item thingo- can anyone tell me what that is?

1) We *can't* finish off Unright with the lynch today - he's an Immortal, and to the best of my knowledge his shield is still up. On the other hand, to the best of my knowledge the third Mafioso isn't immortal (2x immortal Mafiosos would be borderline broken given the game size), there should be only 2 surviving Mafiosos (Unright claimed 3 Mafiosos, and given Unright as Immortal and Slicey as double-life neutral any more than three Mafiosos looks impossible by game balance considerations). In addition, there are only 2-4 credible candidates for being the Mafia Roleblocker (Boxman, Cobalt, Snow_Bunny, and from other players' perspectives myself), and of those one (Boxman) is vastly more likely to be scum than the others given his play and utterly mediocre claim (again for Slicey: Just because Pom tried to recruit Boxman does not necessarily mean he's town).

Let me make this clear: my first instinct that lynching any player other than the Mafia Roleblocker tonight is suboptimal, both because both of the outed scum have double lives and because lynching the Mafia Roleblocker completely frees up several of our power roles (Cobalt if he's telling the truth, Masons, my own role all come to mind) while giving us the possibility of shutting down the Mafia kill for at least one night. If we decide NOT to do this, we might actually be better served lynching Slicey today since he (unlike the Mafia) clearly has an ability that can shut down our attempts to remove his kill immunity via non-lynch means. I'll run the numbers to double-check.

Also, a reminder: UNRIGHT has the Death Note, not Slicey. You want to steal it, you'll need to grab it from him.

For reference, my current plan:

D4/N4) Lynch probable Mafia Roleblocker (Boxman)/block (via probable ZazieR ability) and remove Death Note (via Masons) from Unright/do nothing to Slicey (mainly because the two players who probably could do something are likely to get smacked with Lead With the King tonight)/Cobalt mercs for dramonic who either sends in a global roleblock or something nasty targeting Unright (permablock/kill).
D5/N5) Lynch Slicey (1x immunity removed) or Unright (only if we can kill him), do nasty things to Unright overnight (should strip at least one immunity from Unright).
D6/N6: Lynch Slicey again, throw whatever we can at Unright
D7: win

There's probably a few flaws, and I haven't run the numbers to see how the setup tolerates a lynch of Unright/Slicey over the Mafia Roleblocker (or, gods forbid, a mislynch).

Actually, question for Cobalt: Can you implement a global roleblock and/or permablock with your ability? If yes and we have enough good targets for your ability (dramonic comes to mind), we might be able to lock down the game by forcing a global roleblock for a few nights in a row. Alternately, permablock on Unright could also lock the game for us, and lobbing a kill Unright's way shouldn't be out of the question provided that we lynch the RBer.

[Snow_Bunny]

dram is town, confirm I am a minion who has been using voteblock abilitites and shiz. Also for some reason my voteblock on Cobalt didn't work night two so I had to choose a new target.

I don't really know why no-one is considering that Slicey Unright and Tar are all scum together, this is a 16-player game after all. Calling for someone to be lynched other than the claimed scum is mighty fishy. We definitely should kill Unright today, and we can steal Slicey's item thingo- can anyone tell me what that is?

I am starting to consider this. Though, it would be unbalanced as hell, but I'm considering it.

[Cobalt]

tarh, you can use your copy to merc for someone, allowing us two kill attempts on each of unright/slicy per night.
I don't know if a global roleblock is legal- I'll ask. Xyl has implied to me that he won't allow stuff he considers too powerful. For example, he told me he won't allow any more use of the background check you used the first night.
also I would not be surprised if slicey has not in fact Geassed unright.

[Bogre]

How about this:

Unright reveals 3rd scum, then we let him fulfill his alternate win con.

[Slicey]

What part of "I'm going to help the town" do you people not understand? I don't plan on using Lead with the King tonight unless I can find I way it will help the town (it probably won't.)

Also, a thought came to my mind. Why the hell are Tar and Unright neighbors? Do we have some flavor that says why they're neighbor's?

Tar, Unright claimed to have used the Deathnote, didn't he? Although reading it it sounds like he killed Pom with the Deathnote which is probably not right, so I'm not sure.

Also, you won't need to kill/lynch me twice. I don't come back unless I want to come back (hint: I won't.)

ort, your voteblock didn't work because I redirected it (when I was pretending I HAD to redirect.)

Cobalt, Tar can probably confirm I used Geass. Although the wording may not have been perfect (roleblocker can still probably kill, making finding him/her a top priority.)

Also, I'd like to note that after this game I plan on retiring from playing mafia for a little while. So let's make this last game fun, ya?

[Cobalt]

Xyl says ix-nay on the obal-roleblock-gay or erma-roleblock-pay.

[Tarhalindur]

What part of "I'm going to help the town" do you people not understand? I don't plan on using Lead with the King tonight unless I can find I way it will help the town (it probably won't.)

Also, a thought came to my mind. Why the hell are Tar and Unright neighbors? Do we have some flavor that says why they're neighbor's?

Tar, Unright claimed to have used the Deathnote, didn't he? Although reading it it sounds like he killed Pom with the Deathnote which is probably not right, so I'm not sure.

Also, you won't need to kill/lynch me twice. I don't come back unless I want to come back (hint: I won't.)

ort, your voteblock didn't work because I redirected it (when I was pretending I HAD to redirect.)

Cobalt, Tar can probably confirm I used Geass. Although the wording may not have been perfect (roleblocker can still probably kill, making finding him/her a top priority.)

Also, I'd like to note that after this game I plan on retiring from playing mafia for a little while. So let's make this last game fun, ya?

1) Wait, did I forget to claim Unright's role name for him (should have done so earlier - we want to free up future Death Note shots)? He's Greed (from Full Metal Alchemist) - so far, a major component of the game seems to be that characters from the same series are neighbors (all three Haruhi characters were in a masonry as confirmed by Sajin's role PM, both FMA characters are in a masonry, Cobalt has claimed mason with and same series as Zazie).

As an aside, Cobalt's probably telling the truth about being a neighbor (I suppose he *could* be scum who figured out the pattern from his buddies' claims, but I have my doubt. On the other hand... now that I think about it, so far EVERY neighborhood has had a scum in it. Not sure that's strong enough to conclude Cobalt must be scum, but it's something to keep in mind. (And yes, I should have noticed this a long time before I did.)

2) You, I, and Unright all know damn well that you're lying about your come to life effect being optional. You have the choice to be publically revealed as alive, but you're alive either way.

On the other hand... reading Unright's QT claim more carefully, apparently you lose your recruit while faking death. If so, then lynching you today becomes a viable option (as long as you're not recruiting, you're not a threat). Probably not as good as lynching the roleblocker, but it's an option.

3) I saw Slicey use Geass, though I have no idea if it worked.

4) Yes, Unright claimed having the Death Note.

[ortolan]

How about this:

Unright reveals 3rd scum, then we let him fulfill his alternate win con.

[Unright]

How about this:

Unright reveals 3rd scum, then we let him fulfill his alternate win con.

Yeah... Since you guys are doing your best to eliminate my ability to kill people and achieve my ALTERNATE win condition, exactly what incentive do I have to help you ruin my REGULAR win condition?

Besides, I've already made my move of good faith (remember Pom?). I may be playing badly, but I'm not going to play *THAT* badly.

@Tar: Ah, I see what you mean about the 3-1 endgame with a voteblock ability in my pocket. I've been a little distracted lately. This is going to be my last scum game for a while and I'd like to go out with a win. You've already got your town auto-win, so how can I get my win in return?

[Cobalt]

How about instead of messing around with hypothetical alternate wincons from CLAIMED SCUM we kill them and win as town?

[Tarhalindur]

How about this:

Unright reveals 3rd scum, then we let him fulfill his alternate win con.

Even if Unright was willing, even discussing having a claimed scum out his buddies forces me to act as a moderator in addition to a player... and while as a player I'd like Unright to claim his surviving scumbuddy, as a moderator I must advise against it (since outing a scumbuddy intentionally is a modkill/blacklist offense in my ruleset).

Besides, we already know who the last scum is, since I just remembered the bloody obvious:

Day 2 Vote Count

DeathNote -

2

(Cobalt)
ortolan -

1

(chamber)
Unright -

1

(dramonic)

Not voting: Boxman, Tarhalindur, Slicey, Pomegranate, DeathNote, Bogre, Snow_Bunny, Sajin, Unright, ortolan, Empking

With 14 alive it will take 8? to lynch.

Cobalt is all-but-cpnfirmed town (despite being a neighbor) since he's only had double voting power for one day (consistent with claim), and in that case Boxman is all-but-confirmed roleblocker (Snow_Bunny has an outside shot of being scum, but her play does NOT look like scum play - scum have been remarkably passive here, and S_B has been on wagons).

Now, I have no problem engineering an ortolan-Tarhalindur-Unright endgame as long as I can be sure that Unright can't screw us over in a 3-player endgame if lying about his alternate win condition (hence the attempt to Geass, among other things; Unright, I've been trying to set up a situation where I'm sure that you win if and only if you're telling the truth about your alternate win condition). That means getting rid of Boxman today, lynching Slicey until dead, removing Unright's kill shield (but keeping him alive), and then removing townies until an ortolan-Tarhalindur-Unright endgame is achieved. In fact, as long as a confirmed townie controls the Death Note (and is willing to give Unright a chance) we can even mostly negate the possibility of Unright suddenly killing ftw at 4 players alive.

Come to think of it, I'll probably Role Inspect Unright tonight (considered it last night but decided against it - I was hoping to catch one of the other Mafiosos); while I can't rule out that Unright has the capability to fool role PM scrying, I can rule out anything short of that, and Unright cannot afford to kill me tonight even if he can kill (because if I am killed Unright MUST be killed ASAP; we can't give him a chance to achieve his alt win if that implies trying to set up a 2-player endgame).

Regardless, Boxman is effectively confirmed Mafia Roleblocker. Let's get it done, people.

[Tarhalindur]

How about instead of messing around with hypothetical alternate wincons from CLAIMED SCUM we kill them and win as town?

Let's get rid of the all-but-confirmed Mafia Roleblocker (Boxman) first, and THEN we can debate about Unright. Okay?

[Cobalt]

Here's my idea.
We lynch boxman.
I merc for dramonic. He has me do a kill on Slicey.
Tarh imitates my merc, targets me, and I do a doc protect on dramonic.
The only available kill attempts left are me and snow bunny- and I'm the only one with a useful role, so I die.
Tomorrow, finish off slicey with the lynch. Then go to work on unright.
if we want we can kill unright first, I don't really care either way. I DON'T like the alternate wincon stuff- let's just kill the scum and win.

[ortolan]

this plan sounds scummy. What exactly does the immortal trait prevent anyhow?