Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[hewitt]

You still haven't explained why it's advantageous for Kast to be to keep the the power for so long.

[bv310]

Here's a scenario for you. What if today we evict Paltry (which is basically a given at this point, seeing as Crazy really hasn't drawn attention to himself) and he flips either Scum A or B. If he passes HoH to another Scum, then that scum will put up two townies (or one scum, one townie) Would it not be more advantageous to have the ability to override those decisions, rather than remove it from the game completely?

Also, why are we even having this discussion this early? This should be a twilight discussion at best. Right now, all this is doing is taking attention away from the task at hand: Evicting eitther Crazy or PE. If you haven't voted already, I'd like to see a case on either of the two from you.

[bv310]

(OOC: Also, sorry about my lack of posting over the last two days. Try7ing to pack to fly back to university is becoming a giant pain in my ass)

[pablito]

Well, the things you mention about me (that I lack "punch") are pretty much just part of my general playstyle. Unless if I'm deeply involved in a game, I'm rarely an aggressive player. I can attest to my currently mild interest in mafia games by pointing out that this is my only ongoing game.

Actually, one reason why I would suspect you is that you seem to jab really hard against anyone who mentions your name. I have mentioned your name, and you seem to be harsh on me. That makes me vigilant of you. But as you mention, I'm sure you're not one of Sly's partners.

As for Kast and the coup. I seem to be getting the idea that a lot of people that still suspect kast is from a lot of what zwet did. I can't really remember a lot of cases specifically against kast - except for having the coup. I don't mind kast having the coup and I don't think now is the time to discuss flushing it out or not.

I'm still waiting for paltry to give us a nice post. In the meanwhile, I'll point out my quiffs with Crazy, which on retrospect, isn't really much.

[animorpherv1]

I do think using the Coup'd etat soon is important. Because:


A) Like hewitt says, if someone had it untill LYLO with a scumbuddy, that would be very powerful
B) If Kast is scum he'll use it when a scumbuddy is up. Henceforth giving us a third scum.

[Kmd4390]

The coup goes away after Day 8. Kast should use his judgement on it. No point forcing anything.

[Crazy]

Actually, one reason why I would suspect you is that you seem to jab really hard against anyone who mentions your name. I have mentioned your name, and you seem to be harsh on me. That makes me vigilant of you. But as you mention, I'm sure you're not one of Sly's partners.

If I sound harsh, it's usually because I'm just trying to poke around the situation and find out more information (like, do they abandon their argument or continue to push it, etc.) Also, sometimes I'm sure I come across as harsh when I don't intend to be.

If someone attacks me (especially in a weak-mannered way), I do like to question them about it.

About the coup: I think if a majority of the town wants to use it, then Kast should use it.

In this situation, I would vote to use it.

[LlamaFluff]

Nah, the course of action is to make Kast use it when not can lose the game for town, to make him use it if the majority of the town doesnt like the noms (I would almost be for using it here), or make him use it when the majority of the town wants him lynched.

@PE/Crazy - Can you each lay out your top suspects + partners to Sly. Also do you think eachother are town or scum?

[bv310]

I'm not overly convinced with the case on either of the noms, but of the two I find Crazy more suspicious. He's been really defensive whenever someone hasa mentioned him, and his explanation really has not been convincing.

I like llama's idea of getting their reads, but I'd prefer a general read, as well as specifics. I'd like to see who they see as scummy, and who they see as specifically chenbots.

[Snow_Bunny]

I'm reading, will catch up later.

[Crazy]

@PE/Crazy - Can you each lay out your top suspects + partners to Sly. Also do you think eachother are town or scum?

My top suspects are still Ani and Snow. Sly's partners I'm really not sure at the moment.

I think Paltry is town.

I'm not overly convinced with the case on either of the noms, but of the two I find Crazy more suspicious. He's been really defensive whenever someone hasa mentioned him, and his explanation really has not been convincing.

It sounds to me like you're copying what other people have said. Can you point to specific examples. (Preferably to before I was nominated, because when you're nominated there's really no limit to how defensive you should be, since you're at direct risk.)

[LlamaFluff]

I'm reading, will catch up later.

How hard is "PE or Crazy - First instinct"?

Also your sig hurts the soul.

[farside22]

mod is to sick to care vote count

vote count:

Paltry (1) Kast
Crazy (0)

[farside22]

If whoever has the coup wishes to use it now. Please put in bold the following:

I the coup holder so chose to use my power to over throw the HOH

If this is not stated in the next 24 hours the power can not be used for today's nominations.
Thank you.

[PaltryExcuse]

Wow, so life sucks. Getting sick, moving back for school, preparing for school... being nominated could not have come at a worse time. Then, my laptop breaks. Goodie. Long story short: I've lost most of my mammoth post I was preparing... SO! Here starts a more summarized post, and not as indepth as I once wished to have.

To prevent the same from happening again, as I take a break from writing/researching, I'll post. After I've done everyone, I'll reflect and give an overall "Most Scummy => Least Scummy".

Animorpherv1

Reading him in ISO is a strange and confusing thing.
A) Ani seems to do relatively no scumhunting. Hard to give a post where this happens, as it's read nearly everywhere.
B) When he does come up with a conclusion, that conclusion is often questionable. I could go on about his conclusion on SensFan again after he flaked, but instead bring this post about Sly up:

@ Paltry:
Nice find with the PoV. Everyone who is voting SlySly may want to take a look at his post under it. It shows that he can be maniuplated easily, which is not a good quality for HoH.

Whuzza? Nice find with the Veto? I guess if reading the rules is a nice find. Sly is manipulated easily? PULEASE! The guy went off on a tangent all by his lonesome and it got him evicted. Craziness.
C) And just amazingly honest, yet scummy things.

@kmd:

Yup. Being ignored in this game (to a point) seems like a good idea. It keeps you off the radar and less likley to be up for elimination.

Oh. Yeah. Not participating is a good thing.
The two points for him, in my mind at this time, is that he's played more Mish Mash games than he ever has played mafia games. The guy doesn't play mafia. So... newb read perhaps? Secondly, he went against the all-town initiative against saber to get him evicted early on.
I dunno though. Not looking around scares me into thinking he's complacent because he knows one scum team already. Scummy vibe.

bv310/saberwolf

not to be confused with bv310/DisCode

Saberwolf's early behaviour I originally thought was a front for later scummy behaviour. This was poor judgment. After the bet with Animorpherv1 came out, it was obvious that his antics were more fueled for personal gain of having one less game to deal with, rather than actually playing the game. Saber did say a couple things towards the game:

If scum are lurking, then it means that they are satisfied with either:

1. who is going to be HoH [suggests scum]

2. the know that the two being put up arent of their faction, which would be worrisome.

However, this kind of post is far outnumbered by anti-town, anti-game play.

bv310 came in and started differently then when he was DisCode. Not badly, but actually an improvement. He understandably defended himself as DisCode and being up for nomination, but entered with 4 questions about recent comments. But he doesn't post much. Really at all. The only other scum hunting that was done was that ridiculous line of posting about Kmd getting a PM from the mod... about Kmd. He's done less than Snowbunny and many others and just seems to be sliding by. With saber's play, you can't really generate a read. With bv310's play, all I see is relative inactivity and no scumhunting. Scummy read.

Taking a food break. Be back later.

[animorpherv1]

Animorpherv1

Reading him in ISO is a strange and confusing thing.
A) Ani seems to do relatively no scumhunting. Hard to give a post where this happens, as it's read nearly everywhere.

One of my posts that you quoted was me tryingto scumhunt.

B) When he does come up with a conclusion, that conclusion is often questionable. I could go on about his conclusion on SensFan again after he flaked, but instead bring this post about Sly up:

@ Paltry:
Nice find with the PoV. Everyone who is voting SlySly may want to take a look at his post under it. It shows that he can be maniuplated easily, which is not a good quality for HoH.

Whuzza? Nice find with the Veto? I guess if reading the rules is a nice find. Sly is manipulated easily? PULEASE! The guy went off on a tangent all by his lonesome and it got him evicted. Craziness.

The maniuplated easily part was me trying to scumhunt. Easy mauipulation = Changes mind a lot = no firm idea = Scummy
C) And just amazingly honest, yet scummy things.

@kmd:

Yup. Being ignored in this game (to a point) seems like a good idea. It keeps you off the radar and less likley to be up for elimination.

Oh. Yeah. Not participating is a good thing.
The two points for him, in my mind at this time, is that he's played more Mish Mash games than he ever has played mafia games.

Yes.

The guy doesn't play mafia. So... newb read perhaps?

've been trying to get back into things, as I don't play mafia all that often.

Secondly, he went against the all-town initiative against saber to get him evicted early on.
I dunno though. Not looking around scares me into thinking he's complacent because he knows one scum team already. Scummy vibe.

[PaltryExcuse]

Crazy

I'm not gonna lie, I find the guy pro-town. His thoughts have been independent, such as the first to pursue Sly was him.

@Sly - You seem to be trying to make Llama slip up and contradict himself, with no real case other than that.

Let me ask you: Why would Llama supporting Kmd over you be scummy? You said it yourself - both you and Kmd have saber as your primary suspect; if Llama was scum, why would it matter to him who becomes HoH if saber is dead either way?

Personally, I am also favoring Kmd as HoH because I like his secondary choices (Snowbunny, in particular). I realize that saber is still probably dead anyway, but there's not a whole lot I can do about that.

@Mr Finch - That was a really weird post. What do you have against voting for someone?

This post is littered with inspection into another, and is generally a leading cause to people finding Sly scummy in my eyes. Secondly, Kmd was the first to mention Snowbunny as possible scum, however in this post is Crazy reaffirming an earlier belief of Snowbunny's scumminess. Overall, this is just an example of why I would think a vote against Crazy would be seemingly crazy. He has lead town thought towards one scummy individual, and if you think Snow is scum he's led you to another. What more could you ask for? Pro-town read.
This is another prime example (and also hilarious to read.

About him being overdefensive: I'd prefer townies did get defensive. I want them to defend themselves and fight to the last (as I'm trying to do now). If he's town, and overdefensive: awesome. I doubt I'll ever be convinced overdefensiveness is a scumtell. Ever.

I have to ask however: Do you still find Mr. Finch scummy?
Now that Kmd has deviated immensly from the town, do you think Kmd is scummy?

hewitt/SensFan

My thoughts on SensFan are located here. 'I remember reading it, tell me the result': a pro-town read.

hewitt is interesting. In his first post:
A) He admits to seeing a connection between SensFan and animorph
B) Calls SlySly one of the most likely floaters
C) Semi-attacks Kmd
It's hard to know what to think about this.
However, I really think the kmd and DisCode nominations were attempts to get hewitt out. The DisCode nomination backfired, and got him evicted.
When and where did your read of SlySly change? Especially considering this:

*snip Talk with Kast*

I don't like this at all. And it's not the usual town Llama I remember (though my memory is always blurry). Setting up lynches for coming days? And setting up the lynches with easy ones? That's as pro-town as outing mason partners on D1. This little part of your post makes me doubt of your towniness, and maybe Sly was right about you. I know my scumhunting is as good as it should be, I reckon, but I recognize a scum post when I see it.

Do you even understand the concept of this game? We will be having ONE person deciding which two players will be up for eviction tomorrow and that means that we should all know who everybody plans on nominating if they're tapped for HoH tomorrow to see if they deviate. You are purposely trying to twist that around and it's utter bullshit.

Why exactly? The guy wanted me lynched since Day 1 when I vetoed his nomination.

Hello...it's called distancing 101.

That's very interesting that SlySly flipped Chenbot. Honestly I really thought he was going to flip floater, I'm very pleasantly surprised. Okay so based off SlySly's interactions with the rest of the group I'm going to vote to nominate

Vote: Mr Finch

Vote: Snow Bunny

Mr Finch was very generally off SlySly's radar the entire game (and SlySly flung accusations all across the board) and Mr Finch was actually defending SlySly at times. That combined with the weak bussing (understatement of the year in my opinion) at the end and the mutual dodging around each other I think Finch is the most likely candidate to be one of SlySly's partners.

I'd nominate Snow Bunny to go up against Finch because A) I can't stand her, B) I think she's dodgy scum, and C) I'm still think that players were defending her in their votes for SlySly.

It's kind of crazy when you look at the players who voted to evict SlySly vs. the players who voted to evict Snow Bunny. Truly the four most level-headed, most likely to be floater players all voted Snow Bunny. And on the SlySly wagon you've got the most anti-town seeming player of the game, the player most likely to be on a scumteam with SlySly, a player who replaced a very dubious former player and is fond of slinging crap, a player who I get a concerning overly defensive vibe from, another player who replaced an even more dubious former player, and a player who I really don't even think reads this game before commenting.

It's really interesting.

You nominated a floater (or someone you thought as such)? Is this the town's nom while Snow was your nom?... I'm confused about you now. However, hewitt has scumhunted, been active, and said many things I feel myself nodding to. So: Neutral leaning-town read.

[PaltryExcuse]

@animorpherv1: My point is that it is rare you try to scumhunt, and when you do, your conclusions seem illfounded (Sly was not easily manipulated by my read of his actions) or just illogical (SensFan was scummy because he flaked).

More later.

[LlamaFluff]

I would love Kast to use overthrow today, even though I dont think it will be happening.

[bv310]

To make sure I understand you Paltry, your case against me is that I don't post much, right?

[bv310]

Nevermind, I see that's exactly it. I think you're missing a few people there, Paltry. I wouldn't mind getting your reads on everyone else.

[PaltryExcuse]

Kast/zwetschenwasser

Zwet: Useless. Inexplicable. Scumtastic. 8 posts over a long period of time that give no explanation.

Kast's entrance post, although a PBPA, is uninformative. He says the most about yours truly, and gives a pro-town read (yay!) but for pretty much everyone else give neutral reads. Everyone minus Sly and town-supported lynch Animorpherv1. I... would've liked to see a bit more indepth analysis and opinion.
Plus, I have to wonder where his opinion changed for this to come up:

@Llama-
Even if we end up with a full mafia B team and a single mafia A member, we would still have to lynch the most probable scum, even if that player "claimed" to be the last remaining mafia A. For mafia A, he would definitely still lose the game (either by failing to hit mafia B or after a mafia B member is lynched) if he claims. If the town obeys your strategy and spares the player who claims, then we've just handed mafia B a get out of jail free card that could let them flat out win.

@AM-
Your statement doesn't match with your actions. You don't actually care about opinions, you just want to attack players who don't post that frequently, regardless of whether the posts they have made had content (opinions) or not.

Stating you didn't know I had coup d'etat is a BS excuse. If you are scum, you're obviously lying. You're pretty obv-scum.

@Hewitt-
I initially posted that your SB nom as HoH was weird, to which you FALSELY claimed that SB has been your top pick even over Sly. You mentioned SB once on replacing in, then completely dropped her from your suspects while Sly was picking a replacement to be lynched instead of you. After the replacement was picked, you added SB back, but just as a "pawn" to go against your top choice Sly.

@KMD-
Neither of those two are my top suspects, but I would vote PE over Crazy. I find Crazy's play so far to be more pro-town than PE's, though neither of them are coming across as scummy.

@Crazy-

And think of it, Sly had to be doing SOMETHING when he nominated DisCode! Why else would he do something that made him look like total scum? I'm not sure if Kast is the answer to that question, but that question has to have SOME answer, right? What do you think?

On re-read, the most likely answer is that he was defending saber who was supposedly his top suspect.

He'd vote me over Crazy! But I was at the top of his pro-town list before! Damn. Well, that change of opinion has got me rankled as he hasn't said anything about me previously, so I don't know how Crazy became more pro-town than me. Secondly, it is also reminiscent of every scumhunting post of Kast's post SlySly: attack Ani, attack Hewitt.
On the subject of who Sly was protecting Day 1, I'd wager it was zwet. Sorry, but I would.
Reason 1: It was either saber, ani, or zwet. They were the three repeatedly being pushed to be put up.
Reason 2: I don't think Sly would mention his buddies repeatedly before his nominations... and then not put him up. It's too obvious of a coincidence. I'm ruling out saber.
Reason 3: Ani made a comment against Sly early on. I don't see Ani bussing day 1 if he is scum.
Reason 4: One of zwet's few comments in the game was supporting Sly, here.
I'm leaning scum on this one.

BEST FRIEND!!!!!

(aka Kmd4390)

I just want to say a few things, in the likely case I am evicted today:
1) Re-read me. Please. I think you've read all of my posts since very early on as scummy and your opinions are geared in that direction.
2) Arguing with you has been very enjoyable, and I hope to play with you again.
3) PLEASE! FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT'S PIZZA, RE-READ ME.

Kmd was one of the few people who began this game scumhunting. Unfortunately, it was against a townie... me. We argued, and debated. And really, I felt his case was plain wrong. Then he got nominated. I, to my own future detriment, vetoed him. I had a town read on both him and Sens, and I saved him... (Oh, by the way, the connection that Kmd thought DisCode had to someone was me. DisCode nominated me for HoH pre-Day 1. Just in case you're wondering.)

This guy has a bad case of tunnel-vision. Ever since he first laid eyes on my posts he knew I had to be scum. [sarcasm]I doubt my flip will convince him I'm scum, and I bet he'll assume that it's some bastard mod tactic that changes my flip.[/sarcasm]

He attacks Snow_bunny.
He questions Llama and Animorph.
He questions pablito.
Really, he gives his opinion without being asked, and gives reasons. He shows independence, and this response is awesome. Despite it accusing me again. I used my veto for the same reasons. I didn't think either nominee was scum and wanted them changed and didn't care about the town's reasoning (though I should've let them express it first, I rushed things).

Why I think SlySly nominated Kmd:
A) Kmd would nominate me.
B) Kmd is independent enough to go against town to nominate me.
I would have been more than surprised if I wasn't nommed by Kmd today. What actually surprised me more was the Crazy nom, with only a gut reasoning. Sure, it's to get me evicted, but Kmd is smart enough to know where his gut is coming from with an ISO read.

If you want to read why I don't think I'm scum, read the game. Seriously, it has been talked about enough.

I can't shake this feeling. So, (unbelievably): I have a Town read on Kmd. After writing that sentence I feel like I'm smacking my face against the wall...

[PaltryExcuse]

To make sure I understand you Paltry, your case against me is that I don't post much, right?

My case against you deals more with I don't see you scumhunting, and your inactivity compounds the fact you don't seem to need to. It's not a strong case, I'll admit, but you don't really give much to work with at all, and that scares me.
And more people are coming. (I guess I'm posting in twos, but it's definitely alphabetical order, and not of scumminess.)

[PaltryExcuse]

Holy crap I suck at alphabetical order... I skipped Llama.

[bv310]

To make sure I understand you Paltry, your case against me is that I don't post much, right?

My case against you deals more with I don't see you scumhunting, and your inactivity compounds the fact you don't seem to need to. It's not a strong case, I'll admit, but you don't really give much to work with at all, and that scares me.
And more people are coming. (I guess I'm posting in twos, but it's definitely alphabetical order, and not of scumminess.)

Ok, sorry about that. Didn't look at timing of your posts.

As for my lack of posting, the last three weeks have been weird for me access-wise. I didn't want to give excuses though, so I didn't say anything. Other than that, I haven't really seen anything to go on that hasn't already been said. This is only my third Mafia game so I don't know what to look for. I know this sounds like an excuse, but I want to be straightforward here.

Also also, I thought you said you were going most scummy to least scummy, not alphabetical.