Big Brother Mafia - Town wins!

[hewitt]

It's a tough call, I don't really see any damning evidence to believe either are scum. I'm sure at least one is, just because of the numbers, but I can't see anything that leads me to believe one is scum over the other. It seems to me Paltry has put in a lot more effort since being nominated, while Crazy just seems to not even be reading the game. This is more a vote to keep the player who I think is going to be more helpful and less of a vote to evict Crazy.

Vote: Crazy

[PaltryExcuse]

It was an example of Ani's ridiculous claims. You can fathom a scumpartner saying it? I could fathom a scumpartner making sure he's pinpointed others as scumpartners.

Actually it was referring to this statement:

Sly is manipulated easily? PULEASE! The guy went off on a tangent all by his lonesome and it got him evicted. Craziness.

I can see a scumpartner (you) of Sly saying that. I would expect town to say

Sly is manipulated easily? PULEASE! The guy went off on a tangent away from the town and he was shown as scum. Craziness.

There's something you say about "it got him evicted" rather than saying "and he flipped scum anyway". You focus on the fact that his tangent got him evicted rather than the tangent being an inherently scummy action. I think that's a slip.

My point was that acting differently, and having bogus reasons for his actions, got him evicted. I didn't see the need to add he was scum. He was. That idea is a major stretch in my mind.

Who are you going to vote for? I'd guess it was me, but you've thrown suspicion on both of us.

Once noms were made, my vote was going for Crazy. Not sure right now, I'm leaning 65% toward voting Paltry at this point.

When would you use the veto if there was two chances at it?
Part of the reason you're tentative to use it is because there is only one more use.

Let's say veto was never used. Would I use it this round? If there was strong support for using it, then yeah, it's a possibility. Although I would advocate for Kast using the coup still before using the veto. However, if I were going to use the veto, I don't see much reason to use it on Crazy because of vote momentum, so that means Paltry would have to be the recipient of the veto if I were to use it.

I was actually asking generally, not necessarily about this round in particular. I don't understand the fact you won't use the veto especially since we just hit scum. That information could be a part of the reason for using the veto.
For this occasion, I would've been surprised at you personally using it. You've attacked both of us, and really haven't ever mentioned a town feel on people.

Does Paltry smell 100% town to me? No. Therefore I would have to doubt I would've actually used the veto if there were two shots left. I see benefits for Paltry's flip, town or scum...but yeah I'm not entirely optimistic either. But a huge reason why I would not use the veto one shot or two shot is because we just hit scum. We have info to go on. I'd rather save veto for when we're stuck against a wall. Not so sure we're at that stage yet. If we hadn't hit scum yet and Paltry was up against Crazy? I'd be more willing to use it. But when nominations were made, you guys weren't as vicious as you are now. Maybe it's holiday timing, but I wish you (specifically Paltry) would've shown us this analysis before nominations.

In reference to the viciousness, I don't know what you're talking about, and sorry if I've offended anyone. I considered my playstyle to be aggressive and pointed at times, not vicious.
I was doing a re-read during Christmas Break during my spare time, but really the time I could get away from the game cleared my head. The PBPA is more because I thought, and still do despite the two votes of support, that my lynch is inevitable. I wanted to get all my opinions out from a guaranteed town perspective if I'm lynched, something town didn't get when bv310/DisCode was lynched.

[PaltryExcuse]

@pablito: Llama's list of scummy to least scummy is similar to my list, perhaps for the same reasons. What do you think about that?
Also: have your nominations changed since the beginning of the day? (Snow & Mr. Finch; Sir as a third)

@bv310: I already answered that question. More importantly, you seemed to have preconceived notions of who I would nominate. Who were they?

@Mr. Finch: Sorry to hear you're leaving. Best wishes.

@Mod: Is his slot to be given leeway on the vote or get mod-killed front if you do not get a replacement in time / replacement doesn't finished catching up in time?

@Kast: Your suspicions of bv310/saber seem to be based on hewitt's relationship and possible protection by hewitt of saber. That's not really an attack on saber, more an "If hewitt is scum, I'm looking towards bv310." Secondly, if you attack saber, and not bv310 his replacement, you're attacking someone everyone was willing to vote for at that point in time.

@animorpherv1: You're not convinced on the case on Crazy, but you are of the one on me? Is that it? A little bit more reasoning in your vote is awesome-sauce.

@Kmd: Any comments on anything I've said before my lynch?

@Anyone: Anything particular you don't like about my analysis of anyone? I.e. not yourself (although feel free to comment on your own too, obviously.)

[animorpherv1]

Well, not convinced, because like most everyone has said, there's no real case for either. Your seems a bit stronger to me, though.

[PaltryExcuse]

Why...................?

[farside22]

@Mr. Finch: Sorry to hear you're leaving. Best wishes.

@Mod: Is his slot to be given leeway on the vote or get mod-killed front if you do not get a replacement in time / replacement doesn't finished catching up in time?

I'm still debating this. So far I have had no takers so there is a good chance for a mod kill here.

[farside22]

vote count:

Paltry (3) Kast, animorpherv1, Llamafluff
Crazy (2) Snow_Bunny, hewitt

Deadline is Friday January 8, 1:45pm PST

[Crazy]

It's a tough call, I don't really see any damning evidence to believe either are scum. I'm sure at least one is, just because of the numbers, but I can't see anything that leads me to believe one is scum over the other. It seems to me Paltry has put in a lot more effort since being nominated, while Crazy just seems to not even be reading the game. This is more a vote to keep the player who I think is going to be more helpful and less of a vote to evict Crazy.

Yeah, I'm probably not putting forth the effort Paltry is, but I'm not capable of being as articulate as he is, anyway. I really only comment on the things I care about... and I like to keep things to-the-point.

Where's the evidence that I'm not even reading the thread? Is this about that argument we had... I thought we cleared that up?

Honestly, if someone's not reading the thread, it's bv. He asked me the same question that I already answered further up the page, and he still hasn't answered my question.

[hewitt]

I don't really care about articulation, I care more about getting to know what everybody thinks on everybody...not just what they choose to share with us. Obviously there's no evidence that you're not reading the thread, I can't sit over your shoulder and watch you read, but you're not really taking an active part in discussions and just kind of doing your own thing, which is useless to me.

But yeah, I will agree that apparently bv isn't reading the thread.

[pablito]

@pablito: Llama's list of scummy to least scummy is similar to my list, perhaps for the same reasons. What do you think about that?
Also: have your nominations changed since the beginning of the day? (Snow & Mr. Finch; Sir as a third)

I don't really care that your lists are similar, you both are attempting to scum hunt, which is all players - mafia A, mafia B or town - should still be doing. Seeing that you're both nominated, if either of you is scum, you'll hide your scum partners well in that list. Maybe there could be some info in there, but really the order of the list is okay, and the reasons - well that's possibly good information.

Yes my nominations have changed, as they should. While I say I would put up certain nominations right now, it really all depends on what's on the table as placed by everyone else. I'm not going to sit here right now and say I'd definitely put up finch and snow together if I got HoH, because it's what I'd choose on the information I have now. Maybe it's a given that the choice I'd make now (and everyone else's choice) is subject to change, but the only person who I feel is truly scum right now is Mr Finch. I'm actually thinking Mr Finch vs Sir would make good sense right now. but if there's a modkill, it's all fair game, I'd put up anyone who's not one of the three people I strongly feel are town.

In terms of using the veto, the passing of the veto is always good information. I think veto should be used when we're strongly against a wall and it seems clear that the nominations were chosen to avoid putting up a scum partner. But with the veto, the HoH still has lots of leeway to put up whoever. Veto should be used when there's a strong chance that the HoH would be forced to put up someone that the town wants and the HoH might not want to put up. That's the only way to truly save a town role.

My thoughts right now: Paltry is making a great effort at scumhunting, but I fear that he's scum because of things he's said that I think are tells and the willingness to use veto. But the biggest thing in Paltry's favor is that he truly seems to be townhunting as well. I don't think scum would do that. But Paltry's flip will be informative. Either Paltry's good scum or good town.

Crazy is good at bringing up everything, but so far everything he's said seems to be coming from him - not an offcenter scum moral base. And I think Crazy will still be as good an asset to the town as Paltry in the future.

I'm mixed and I guess I'll try to re-read...I guess this vote is closer than I would've thought it would be.

[animorpherv1]

Why...................?

Everyone voting for Crazy is saying "he's not taking the questions as seriously". That's it.Yours actually has some evidence beside it.

[hewitt]

Everyone voting for Crazy is saying "he's not taking the questions as seriously". That's it.Yours actually has some evidence beside it.

That's a gross misrepresentation. My vote on Crazy is based on their contributions and the fact that is plainly clear for everybody to see is that Crazy has not taken the effort Paltry has to be helpful to the rest of the town and instead sits back and hides in the shadows. And that's pretty much all Crazy has done this entire game.

[animorpherv1]

Everyone voting for Crazy is saying "he's not taking the questions as seriously". That's it.Yours actually has some evidence beside it.

That's a gross misrepresentation. My vote on Crazy is based on their contributions and the fact that is plainly clear for everybody to see is that Crazy has not taken the effort Paltry has to be helpful to the rest of the town and instead sits back and hides in the shadows. And that's pretty much all Crazy has done this entire game.

If you find 3 games with Krazy as scum where he does do this, I might change my mind. Altough it's too late to change my vote now.

[animorpherv1]

EBWOP: Crazy

[hewitt]

If you find 3 games with Krazy as scum where he does do this, I might change my mind. Altough it's too late to change my vote now.

Are you kidding? You're honestly playing this game based off meta?

Wow.

[animorpherv1]

If you find 3 games with Krazy as scum where he does do this, I might change my mind. Altough it's too late to change my vote now.

Are you kidding? You're honestly playing this game based off meta?

Wow.

Meta breaking = tough

[hewitt]

Meta breaking = tough

Again, are you kidding??? I do it every game! It's so freaking easy and I'm pretty sure numerous players do it too.

[Crazy]

So, hewitt, are you voting me because

(a)

you think I'm more likely to be scum than Paltry, or

(b)

just because I'd be less useful as a townie than Paltry?

If it's the former, then judging based on presumed effort is really poor logic, because it ignores meta; Paltry just plainly will always type more words than I will, since he's a different type of player than I am (and he likely enjoys playing mafia significantly more than I do - not that I don't enjoy it, but I don't enjoy it to the point that I will devote 6-8 hours to typing a post for every player in the game.) I don't judge people in this way - for example, I do not think ani is scum because he makes short posts; I think he is scum for attacking Sens/you for getting replaced under bad circumstances.

If it's the latter, then that doesn't make sense because earlier you said you thought at least one of me/Paltry was scum because of the numbers. In the same post that you voted me, in fact.

[hewitt]

You should've offered (c) both a and b

In this game I expect there to be about half-scum who make bold moves and half-scum to sit under the radar and avoid suspicion. I don't believe Paltry is part of faction A but I can definitely see it more likely that you fall into faction B. Paltry has clearly stated his reasonings behind who he thinks to be suspicious, who doesn't think to be suspicious, who is neutral, etc. and why. You have done no such thing, presumably to not draw much attention to yourself. It has nothing to do with word count. You have not done as much as Paltry to convince me that you are town. So both a and b are true.

[Crazy]

You guys know who my top suspects are. (Ani, Snow, and I'll even add bv to the list now.) Anybody below that isn't particularly relevant, unless if they end up nominated. I don't even have them in order in my head.

Let me ask you, though... how useful is "sitting under the radar" going to be when you're

nominated for eviction?

Not too useful, I bet, since if you're nominated, that automatically puts you in the spotlight.

I think what made you change your mind is Paltry's big fat posts about every player in the game, right? Newsflash, he also made those when he was

nominated for eviction.

Which means he was already in the spotlight; there was no use to hide.

For scum or town that's already in the spotlight, there's no benefit to do anything less than your full potential, right? So judging activity levels of people who are nominated is pretty dang useless.

[Crazy]

So judging activity levels of people who are nominated is pretty dang useless.

You can replace "activity levels" with whatever you like, the point is, striving to be UTR when you're nominated is useless.

If you want to judge that based on stuff before we were nominated, that's fine, but I don't think that's what you were doing, considering before we were nominated, you considered Paltry to be scummier than me.

[Kmd4390]

@Kmd: Any comments on anything I've said before my lynch?

I already said I'm impressed.

[hewitt]

Yeah, Paltry definitely made scummier moves than you before you both were nominated and I did think he was the more likely to be scum. But now that I've had time to see both of you in the spotlight the fact is in comparison to Paltry, you're pretty useless. I don't care what your thoughts are on animorpherv and Snow Bunny, who gives a fuck? Everybody thinks they're scummy, that gives me absolutely no insight on you.

[bv310]

@bv310: I already answered that question. More importantly, you seemed to have preconceived notions of who I would nominate. Who were they?

I would have guessed KMD and Snow, based on your attititudes towards them. I didn't see your answer before.

[bv310]

To be totally honest, I don't think either of you are particularly scummy atm, but I probably wont be on tomorrow, so

VOTE: Paltry

Crazy's posts so far have been less swayed, and I think he could be useful to town more than Paltry (who so far has never astounded me)

I'd vote no lynch if I could. I don't like either of these noms. Paltry seemed more suspicious earlier, but he's moved up in my list, although Crazy's still ahead.