[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Max]

If people know going in that there are traitors then why not make them 'hoods, if people don't know then I feel it's basterd modding as mason means confirmed town, thus your lying in the role PM's.

Mason =! Confirmed Mason

[SaintKerrigan]

TBH it's just 3/9 vanilla with limited night talk. Good flavor but not really any interesting dynamics.

The idea behind this setup is to see how the masons handle themselves, knowing that they could possibly have a traitor in their group. Another aspect I found intriguing was how the traitors handle themselves as far as defense goes. Do they try to defend each other, or do they bus?

If people know going in that there are traitors then why not make them 'hoods, if people don't know then I feel it's basterd modding as mason means confirmed town, thus your lying in the role PM's.

This is an Open Setup, so people know going in that there's traitors in the setup. They just don't know who the traitors are.

Mason =! Confirmed Mason

Huh?

[zoraster]

I've renamed my game from Parallel Universe Mafia to Teleportation Mafia, given that there was a game with the same name that also involved subgames (but at least appears to be far different). This highlights the dominate mechanic in the game.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 34#2019734

[ElectricBadger]

The idea behind this setup is to see how the masons handle themselves, knowing that they could possibly have a traitor in their group. Another aspect I found intriguing was how the traitors handle themselves as far as defense goes. Do they try to defend each other, or do they bus?

But all of this applies to a vanilla game.

[SaintKerrigan]

The idea behind this setup is to see how the masons handle themselves, knowing that they could possibly have a traitor in their group. Another aspect I found intriguing was how the traitors handle themselves as far as defense goes. Do they try to defend each other, or do they bus?

But all of this applies to a vanilla game.

The difference is that you have four groups that can nighttalk (the three mason groups + the traitor group). I'm interested in seeing how that works out. I feel this is different from a vanilla game, where everyone except the scum is on his own.

[Yosarian2]

I don't think the extra night talk will make much difference. It might have some limited use, but not nearly enough to balance the game. It's work better as a 2/10 game then a 3/9 game, most likely.

[SaintKerrigan]

Traitors in Our Midst

, Version 4

4 Mason Team 1
4 Mason Team 2
4 Mason Team 3
2 Mason Traitors (Mafia, selected at random from the total pool of players)
12 players total

All groups can nighttalk within each other. Groups cannot daytalk within each other.

Mason Traitors win when their numbers equal or exceed that of the Town Masons.
Town Masons win when all Mason Traitors are eliminated.

[bouncy.bouncy]

I haven't thought this one through at all, but how about something like:

2 doctors
1 watcher
1 tracker
2 goons

[Maemuki]

I haven't thought this one through at all, but how about something like:

2 doctors
1 watcher
1 tracker
2 goons

No. Quite simply, no. Even if it's a mislynch D1, there's so many ways that the mafia could be detonated it's not even funny.

[bouncy.bouncy]

I haven't thought this one through at all, but how about something like:

2 doctors
1 watcher
1 tracker
2 goons

No. Quite simply, no. Even if it's a mislynch D1, there's so many ways that the mafia could be detonated it's not even funny.

Hmm... Are there not as many ways the town could be detonated? I was thinking fakeclaims would be easy.

[Maemuki]

I haven't thought this one through at all, but how about something like:

2 doctors
1 watcher
1 tracker
2 goons

No. Quite simply, no. Even if it's a mislynch D1, there's so many ways that the mafia could be detonated it's not even funny.

Hmm... Are there not as many ways the town could be detonated? I was thinking fakeclaims would be easy.

It's an open setup. Fakeclaiming might not be the best choice. Scum may be detonated as early as D2. Unless they're the best scum in the world.

No. Simply no.

[farside22]

Need some idea's people!
go, go., go

[yabbaguy]

This I would love to play at some point. If someone finds the original thread where this was originally discussed- that'd be awesome.

EDIT: Found it.

[Percy]

VP Baltar suggested I make this suggestion more visible!

I'm referring to the setup as in the Paris Mafia game that was just completed (run by VP Baltar, designed by Abel?). I really like the setup, and I think it's got a lot going for it, especially since it uses the Jester mechanic to do something other than annoy people. There is a hole, however, which is that if the first mime partner is NKed early, the other mime partner is playing in a game they cannot win. I think this could be remedied by the following amendment to the Mime WC:

You win when all Mimes have been lynched. If your partner is killed by either the Mafia or the Vigilante, you win if you are the

first

available lynch after

both

the Mafia have been killed; otherwise the game ends with a town victory.

This is a much harder WC - if you're lynched

before

the mafia die, you lose. If you're NKed, you (obviously) lose. And if you survive long enough for both the mafia to be killed off, you need to be the very next lynch. The strongest town play in such a situation would be to lynch the most pro-town player (imo), so I think it would be an incredible feat to win with this WC. But the important thing is that it is theoretically possible.

Removing them from the game is the simplest solution, of course, but I think this would be an interesting variation.

Anyway, do with it what you will

[ortolan]

first time we played that setup we thought it was ridiculously biased towards scum (perfect victory) and second time round....ooh look scum won again (perfect victory). Your change is interesting but I don't think it helps the fact that both the town and the mimes' victory condition is extremely difficult to achieve.

[Adel]

I think his suggested fix might help the mimes nicely

Paris Mafia

2 mafia goons
2 mimes
1 vig
1 watcher
5 townies

11 players, daystart

The only run of Paris Mafia: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10489
player consensus in post-game: the scum were too powerful.

where a bunch of us worked on it in the old thread: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=3200

Paris II

2 mafia goons
2 mimes
1 vig
1 watcher
6 townies


12 players, daystart
IMO the mime win condition is mutually exclusive with the mafia's and with the town's.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 64#2006764

so how about a role cop to buff the town?

Paris III

2 mafia goons
2 mimes
1 vig
1 role cop
1 watcher
5 townies


12 players, daystart


better?



~~~


Role PMs

Five players will receive the following Role PM:

Vous êtes une Vanille Townie. Vous n'avez aucune puissance de special.

Vous gagnez quand on a éliminé toutes les menaces pour la ville.

Two players will receive the following Role PM:

You are a Goon. You are on a team with ________, who is also a Goon.

Each game night you may communicate with each other via PM. In addition, each game night you may PM me the name of one player to kill, and the Goon who will perform the kill.

You win when only Goons are alive.

Two players will receive the following Role PM:

You are a Mime. You are on a team with _______, who is also a Mime.

Each game night you may communicate with each other via PM. In addition, each game night you may PM me the name of one player to roleblock, and the Mime who will perform the roleblock. All night actions by the blocked player will not occur. You will not be informed of whether or not a block successfully alters the events of a night.

You win when all Mimes have been lynched. You lose if you are killed at night.
If your partner is killed at night you can still win if you are the next player lynched or if 3 "no lynches" occur while you are alive.

One player will receive the following Role PM:

You are a Watcher, Town-Aligned.

Each game night you may PM me the name of a player to watch. You will be informed via PM of all other players that targeted the watched player with a night action.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

One player will receive the following Role PM:

You are a Vigilante, Town-Aligned.

Each game night you may PM me the name of one player to kill.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

One player will receive the following Role PM:

You are a Role-Cop, Town-Aligned.

Each game night you may PM me the name of one player to investigate. You will be informed via PM of that players role unless you are role-blocked.

You win when all threats to the town have been eliminated.

[ortolan]

does the role cop get "mime" and "mafia" or just town power roles?

[ortolan]

Also Percy's amendment effectively screws the town harder- it gives them yet another way to lose even if they lynch all the scum

[Adel]

Also Percy's amendment effectively screws the town harder- it gives them yet another way to lose even if they lynch all the scum

did you see my variant?

You are a Mime. You are on a team with _______, who is also a Mime.

Each game night you may communicate with each other via PM. In addition, each game night you may PM me the name of one player to roleblock, and the Mime who will perform the roleblock. All night actions by the blocked player will not occur. You will not be informed of whether or not a block successfully alters the events of a night.

You win when all Mimes have been lynched. You lose if you are killed at night.
If your partner is killed at night you can still win if you are the next player lynched or if 3 "no lynches" occur while you are alive.

I modified his suggestion.


~~~

does the role cop get "mime" and "mafia" or just town power roles?

all roles, including "mime" and "goon"

[ortolan]

basically the problem with the whole dynamic is that town is extremely wary of lynching scummy people. They are more likely to go for nolynches or unothorthodox lynches which wouldn't normally be logical or desirable. No lynches screw up the town, as do having to use variant methodologies for finding scum which will make assessing other people extra difficult. The nolynches punish the mimes and the town, and the whole lynching process being based around "not lynching the mimes" also punishes the mimes and the town. The only way I think the setup could be balanced is by giving the mafia a more difficult win condition, so that they are comparably impaired to the other two factions. Mafia lovers would be something to consider (obviously the town PRs would have to be played around with).

pre-post edit: the new setup looks far more promising. I'd still be interested in perhaps a smaller variant with one jester and two mafia lovers and a few vanilla townies.

[ortolan]

how about 8 players, 5 vanilla townies, 2 mafia lovers, one jester, mafia get a night-kill

it should be possible to do a % chance to win calculation for that.

[ortolan]

looks like scum = 33% chance, mime = 24% chance, town = 43% chance from my calculations. That is within the bounds for balance I would hope. I might nominate this one.

[xRECKONERx]

Really ridiculous open setup ideas that I've played elsewhere

Open Setup #1:

4 VTs
1 Bodyguard
1 Watcher
1 Tracker
1 Town Roleblocker
1 Mafia Suicide Bomber (idk what you call it 'technically')
1 Mafia Janitor
1 Mafia Tracker

The presence of a suicide bomber who can sacrifice himself to convert someone at random means you can't really trust a claim after the bomber blows. The amount of power roles means the tracker/watcher can't just catch scum instantly without potentially outing one of their own.

Open Setup #2:

1 VT
1 Vig
3 Vengeful Townies
1 Jailkeeper
1 SK
1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Rolecop

[Max]

I'd like to see a 3:3:6 nightless. (I believe that's the right proportion, though I'm sure someone know the actual correct ratio)

I'd also like to see a Double Day game.
As well as a large.

Propositions:

Double Day

7 Vanilla
3 Mafia

I believe that is somewhere in the region of a balanced.

Large can be anything I suppose. Large C9?

[shaft.ed]

I think a NK + Investigation immune SK could create some interesting paranoia in an Open game so how about a set up with one?

Something like:

1 Mafia Goon
1 Mafia Doc
1 Godfather

1 Double Immune SK

1 Cop
1 Bulletproof townie
1 Jailkeeper
1 Vigilante
4 VT

Just a rough start