Teleportation Mafia Universe ONE (MAFIA A WINS!)

[elvis_knits]

Day 1 Vote Count

CSL ( 0 )
DrippingGoofball ( 1 ) mykonian
elvis_knits ( 3 ) Albert B. Rampage farside22 popsofctown
evilsnail ( 0 )
farside22 ( 0 )
fishythefish ( 0 )
flareonage ( 0 )
gayle ( 0 )
Albert B. Rampage ( 2 ) Raskol elvis_knits
mykonian ( 4 ) Rhinox flareonage plum DrippingGoofball
ojanen ( 0 )
plum ( 0 )
popsofctown ( 1 ) gayle
Raskol ( 3 ) evilsnail ojanen fishythefish
Rhinox ( 0 )
Not Voting ( 1 ) CSL
Total Votes ( 15 )

With 15 alive, 8 needed to lynch.
Deadline: 2/8 11am

Bumping because of the bad voodoo curse.

[mykonian]

SOME information is worthless you absolute-slingin' fool! The fourth digit of the 5-dollar bill I just saw in my wallet is 9. How shall you use that?

I bet somebody can. And although you might think it, the person who invented that information was not scum.

About elvis. I honestly don't get where people get those reads from. She isn't lurking, and there only seems to be talking about her because her bandwagon is still a tad big. Probably scum once having their vote placed now keeping it there. I see it very much as a failed wagon, and that has a reason. Elvis didn't really stand out, so I don't think the case on her is that great. Nothing has really been scummy.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Listen to farside. Disregard anything DGB says. Vote E_K. When farside backs out because of her usual paranoia, keep voting. That's a recipe for success right there.

[elvis_knits]

Still not seeing the reason you think I am scum. What a surprise.

[farside22]

Don't forget EK just ignored my post and focused on the farside doesn't know how to read me part.
Doesn't respond to the questions or comments I made in regards to her.

I didn't see anything that hasn't already been covered or wasn't meta-WIFOM bullshit based on my supposed lurking or WIFOM comments about the tone or length of my posts.

EK questions I asked:
If you answered please quote it

Wait why are you voting for ABR?

I can't even understand how OJ is town on this list. Or ABR perhaps scum should be exported and not voted for. Gayle town for wanting to scum hunt but not doing it is town why?

Also if that ABR vote is for what I saw ealier on you very next post you are just about to reinforce my vote.

ABR I'm seriously conteplating kicking you in the nards if you don't start doing something besides following in this game.
So far your play has been horrid this game and yes I'm thinking of our last game currently going when I say this.

[farside22]

elvis is town. You can take it to the bank.

Farside is drinking Kool-Aid.

So nice of you to say Kool_aid. It is full of sugar but has nothing to do with alchol

Tell me about your back and forth a bit more on Raskol. When did EK suddenly become town for you?

[popsofctown]

I am not waffling in every post.

You're right. I can't deal in absolutes.

I am not ad homming anyone. When I say farside can't read me, that is not an ad hom attack.

A has made argument X. There is something undesirable about A. X is false (or less true to any degree).

That's the ad hominem fallacy and you're filling it out. You drew attention away from the actual merit of farside's arguments to point out her inability to read you. Her ability to read you is totally independent of the arguments she made, hence it's a logical fallacy. For example, if Glork came in and echoed every single post farside made, it wouldn't cause some of her arguments that were false earlier to become true.
Last time I saw ad hom, it was scum making the ad hom. Last time I tried to explain it, he reacted in a similar reaction to the best of my recollection. So it's in my little black book. I also believe scum make more fallacious arguments, knowingly or otherwise.

I had low energy at the beginning? I was absent from the entire site because my computer had a virus. Did you check my activity elsewhere??

I said energy, not volume. "someone read the thread so I don't have to" vs. "finally that virus is gone now I can play mafia" is what we're looking at her. (for those who don't read the thread, elvis posted like the first paraphrase)

And the quote that supposedly dripped evil to you... how come you didn't notice it the first time? If it was so blatantly scummy, how come you had to see farside jump on it before you decided to use it against me.

I didn't have to see farside jump on it, it gave me a chill after I read the quote but before I read the commentary.

The reason I probably glossed over it the first time is because all the common logical fallacies, gambler's, ad hom, circular logic, etc, have nicknames because they have a high rate of being accepted as valid by people. Glossing over that is why the reinforcement didn't stick out either I suppose.

Let me just say this: IF YOU THINK I AM AD-HOMMING PEOPLE, PLEASE CONTACT THE MOD AND GET ME REPLACED. THAT WOULD BE AN INFRACTION OF SITE RULES. IF YOU'RE SERIOUS ABOUT THIS, CONTACT THE MOD.

Argumentum ad hominem is not against site rules. Flaming is, but I'm clearly not accusing you of that. Are you trying to strawman me into being some sort of bully or something? Gayle probably had a better shot at that than you do.

I CONSIDER IT INSULTING WHEN PEOPLE INCORRECTLY ACCUSE ME OF ADHOM. IF I SAY YOUR IDEA IS STUPID, I AM NOT ADHOMMING YOU, I AM DISAGREEING WITH YOUR IDEA.

I consider it insulting when people address me with caps lock.

I don't see why you should take personal insult at being incorrectly accused of a logical fallacy in a game of mafia (although of course I contest that it is incorrect). Do you get this angry if you are accused of lying, too? I mean, what other in-game tactics are you going to take personal offense to to try to put them on taboo?


And yes, if you say someone's idea is stupid, that would be disagreeing with their idea. You responded to an idea by directing attention to its speaker, which is argumentum ad hominem or a very close relative.

[elvis_knits]

farside, please read the thread before going off half-cocked and asking me stuff that is already answered.

WHY I AM VOTING ABR:

Same old yarn ball as always.

I am not particularly difficult to convince people to vote for, contrary to what DGB is implying. And I'm a great scumpartner. I think the last two times ended in a perfect scum win. As town I generally get into the game very slowly...and it becomes more apparent as the days pass whether I'm mafia or not.

Elvis knits is basically looking for any kind of reason to OMGUS right now, so that's who I would vote if I were you guys.

And if you're sitll voting for me...SO WHAT! I'm still a rock star! Nananananana-naaa

Considering you had no reason to vote me... it would be entirely appropriate for me to vote you for that crap move. However, I'm more voting you for your lack of scum hunting in general, a failure of yours that continues.

MAYBE IF I WRITE IN ALL CAPS YOU WILL UNDERSTAND

I AM VOTING ABR FOR FAILURE TO SCUM HUNT. HIS VOTE ON ME ALSO SUCKS AND HE HAS PROVIDED NO REASON FOR IT.

Do you think ABR is town? Why is my vote on him bad?

---

I can't even understand how OJ is town on this list. Or ABR perhaps scum should be exported and not voted for. Gayle town for wanting to scum hunt but not doing it is town why?

OJ's comments sound like town to me. I don't see anything scummy or that I disagree with. If you think this read is bad, explain why.

The second two sentences are confusing to me, farside. You have a way of ignoring grammar that makes it hard for me to tell what exactly you mean.

The ABR thing... maybe this will answer your question... I want to lynch ABR at this point. At one point I did say he should be exported, but that's only if he isn't lynched. Is there something else you need me to explain.

And you are twisting my words about Gayle. I never said "Gayle is town for wanting to scum hunt but not doing that." Because that's not what Gayle did. Do you think Gayle is not scum hunting? Do you think Gayle is scum?

[elvis_knits]

POPS, YOU ARE SLEEPING ON THE COUCH TONIGHT.

(IN ALL CAPS)

[farside22]

And you are twisting my words about Gayle. I never said "Gayle is town for wanting to scum hunt but not doing that." Because that's not what Gayle did. Do you think Gayle is not scum hunting? Do you think Gayle is scum?

You had people town/scum on a list with no reason. I going off of your orginal view on Gayle and wondering where you get a town read.

You got the ABR correct and I appologize for the lack of clarity.

OJ: just went to look at her post in issolation I think I just forgot about her because she isn't been vocal this game.


Okay I got the impression from one comment that you were voting ABR because of myko I see I mistaken on this.

I'm still not thrilled with your don't listen to farside argument. Granted I called you town in a game you were scum but when people agrue meta and I dont' know the meta orginally I will question the person making that argument. I was also eventually in that game more against your lynch based on the cop claim and day 1 push it was scummy even if your scum partner was part of the push.
As for the current game we cant' discuss. I will say I cant' discuss it.

As for Gayle I think she has been lurkerish till recently. She says says the game is a bit much for her but idk I wouldn't say a town feel for her.

I'm going to finish my read of the rest of the players here.

[Albert B. Rampage]

E_K WHY ARE YOU SO SCUMMY? YOU ARE GIVING YOURSELF AWAY.

[mykonian]

Elvis, why post 483. Did you want to correct the "tone" of your previous post?

[elvis_knits]

I posted 483 because I am mad. And I still am, so no, I do not want to correct the tone.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well that's just too bad, isn't it? Ain't so fun getting caught when you're scum huh?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Look, let's level here. The same kind of bullshit I'm posting you now is what DGB does, but all game long. Just crap, basically. Do you like it when it's done to you? So why do you join DGB in bullying other people?

DGB plays much the same way as zwet. The two worry more about players not getting a read on them than they do about actually finding scum. Makes them feel confident or someshit. It's easy to get sucked into playing the same way, because hell, if they aren't putting any effort, why should I? That's why I don't play with zwet.

Unvote

I'll give you a chance here, just don't fucking make me regret it.

[mykonian]

Well that's just too bad, isn't it? Ain't so fun getting caught when you're scum huh?

I don't believe that is it. Someway the ad-hom argument triggered Elvis. She went from arguing to mad so very quickly. I didn't see it coming, tbh. So I asked if her post after it was a joke, to show she knew she was very much overreacting.

But no, nothing of that. She again confirms she was mad at people. I simply can't see how this escalated so quickly.

Elvis, I'm not calling you scum, but this feels very odd to me. Would you have an explanation? (and personal life is enough of an answer, I don't need to know more)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Elvis IS scummy. But I want her to defend herself and voice her suspects without stupid people making retarded comments at every post she makes.

[Rhinox]

Rhinox, I say I create information. You say that information is not decisive. We are both right, I just don't see how extra information, even when doubting how effective it could be, can ever hurt us.

Nobody tells any person to use it. I have actually never even used the answer itself, but the way the person answered, what his motivation was while answering. See my analysis of Farside, Fishy, DGB, Plum and I thought evilsnail. Gayle couldn't answer it for obvious reasons, and the reluctance to give information makes Raskol quite likely scum.

So I have provided analysis from this question, but I don't see that coming back in your argument anywhere. You seem to think the information is worthless. I don't think any information is.

ok.

---------------------------------------

I am not ad homming anyone. When I say farside can't read me, that is not an ad hom attack.

A has made argument X. There is something undesirable about A. X is false (or less true to any degree).

pops is right. adhom is a logical fallacy and is independant from verbally attacking or insulting someone. Adhom is not against the site rules, while attacking or insulting is.

I CONSIDER IT INSULTING WHEN PEOPLE INCORRECTLY ACCUSE ME OF ADHOM. IF I SAY YOUR IDEA IS STUPID, I AM NOT ADHOMMING YOU, I AM DISAGREEING WITH YOUR IDEA.

I don't recall you saying farsides ideas were stupid. What you did was completely ignore farsides ideas to discredit her position based on adhom.

I don't know if you're scum though.

---------------------------------------

unvote, vote: CSL

see previous post somewhere

--------------------------------------

Also, Rhinox, I am deeply offended that of all those quotes in your post, mine was the only one you declined to attach a name to. As is common knowledge, this is a very terrible and dire insult, and I assure you that I will have my vengeance some day soon. I would sleep with the lights on if I were you.

Mafia claim here. Only mafia kills at night in this game

lol I didn't quote you because there were a few other players asking about the voodoo curse so I was utilizing your post to address everyone. Next time I'll use "Gayle, et al"

[popsofctown]

POPS, YOU ARE SLEEPING ON THE COUCH TONIGHT.

(IN ALL CAPS)

[farside22]

@DGB why did you vote Evil when fishy, myself and gayle aswered the question as well about what you do as scum

fishythefish

- following (looks to post 92). Lots of stradegy talk from fishy and finally we get to some scum hunting more with Gayle. I wish his vote on raskol came with quotes on why he thinks the things he does on raskol.
The case at large should be looked at as it just idk seems off (gut). Catch up post a bit doesn't seem to say much

- Liking Gayle a lot more. Makes a decent case against pops
- I agree with EK about publishing townreads. pops says we want to help the other universe with their pulling – no, we really, really don’t. That seems like an unlikely thought for town – it clearly hurts us if they pull well.
- Flare’s vote for myk is rather horrible. I see the passage of townreads theory as pretty null (with the exception of the above). I don’t understand how you’d get mykscum from it.
- myk’s slip looks bad. @myk: what was going through your head?

More like good job, I agree and flares vote but I just feel touching on subjects and not really scum hunting in this post

The defense of myko isn't unheard of but his flip flop post on explaining it so much.....idk it's weird

flareonage

- flare points out the talks in the OU about them wanting to screw us over. RVS the fishy
How weird is this statement:

Yeah but scum is influencing all that strategy talk and they're gonna push for the town to do what they want.

I think the teleporter should just keep to themselves and do whatever they want with their action

How does he know who is influencing the strategy talk and why does he say scum is doing it?

Another vote this time OMGUS to pops

typical flare post following others

I completely agree with Rhinox. Mykonian is just as guilty of what he is accusing Raskol of doing.

@Mykonian: Why did you ignore that point of Rhinox's argument? It seemed like the most important point to me

gayle

@EK: This is the post I refer to that bothers me about GAyle

As for an alternative direction, I'd prefer if the strategy discussion hadn't interrupted the rvs.

I also don't understand how someone who claims they don't know how to carry on after RVS stage wants to push the issue of RVS

contradict much?

I happen to find RVS very useful. It gets the game started, it gives you questions to ask, votes and bandwagons to question, etc.

This is true. I used to whine about RVS too, until people started telling me to come up with an alternative. I honestly have no idea what else to do, which is why I said I was going to shut up and wait for the strategy discussion to go somewhere.

post a quick comment without much to back it up.

The pops case actually is quiet good.
definate improvement in the game
You know what for someone who wanted to talk RVS she has completely flipped around in her scum hunting and I retract my previous comments about her.

mykonian

- myko talks about scumhunting will win the game but talks about stragdy of the game right after

interesting:

Evilsnail: I am not going to answer my own question if nobody wants the answer

.

a few people answered this question why refuse to answer yourself?

Well you did answer in this post actually so the comment leaves me in a lot of pondering

myko why did you vote from DGB to raskol and with such a hypocritcal statement as this:

You completely forgot what you did with fishy, and went for the next target, with a less then spectacular case. Where are you going to run next?

I love how myko says he didn't want to read the ou but clearly is.

myko why would you switch you vote to CSL?

The case on DGB is terrible. Speaking from what you posted as a case I can point to a time DGB said scum day talked and she was town. It's a null tell.

Lots of defending from myko and I didn't find a case that was really well thought out excpet raskol case.

ojanen

- OJ has said very little this game but what she does say has shown scum hunting and reasoning.

plum

- mmm not sure what to think of plum. I can see the case on myko but I wonder why she dropped the DGB case.
I think the fact that plum has only made 2 post I'm going to go with uncertain read right now.


So back to my main point. Flare who was scum that was talking about stradegy?

unvote:
vote: flareonage

Still 3 more players to read thru but this needs to be addressed!

[Flareonage]

I don't know. I'm just saying that is a typical scum thing. They're gonna force their strategy on us

[DrippingGoofball]

@DGB why did you vote Evil when fishy, myself and gayle aswered the question as well about what you do as scum

Didn't you answer by saying why you wouldn't answer it? That doesn't count. I was looking for answers from scum trying to manipulate how they may be being read. I missed Fishy's and Gayle's answer. Did they actually answer that question seriously? If they did, they're up in my scumlist. Can you point out to me the post where they are detailing their own scumtells? Thanks ahead.

[Gayle]

@Farside:

I happen to find RVS very useful. It gets the game started, it gives you questions to ask, votes and bandwagons to question, etc.

This is true. I used to whine about RVS too, until people started telling me to come up with an alternative. I honestly have no idea what else to do, which is why I said I was going to shut up and wait for the strategy discussion to go somewhere.

This is not really a contradiction. In my earlier games I did not like RVS, because I felt it led to mislynches. I would complain, and then the other players would tell me to come with an alternative. I didn't have an alternative (sometimes I suggested RQS, but could never come up with questions), so I stopped whining about it. After a few more games, I now think that RVS is the best way to start the game.

Also, I wasn't saying I have no idea how to carry on after a RVS. I was saying that I didn't know how to carry on

in place

of a RVS.

[mykonian]

Bolded is mine. And take your time replying to it, I should be sleeping. I'll take a look in the morning.

mykonian

- myko talks about scumhunting will win the game but talks about stragdy of the game right after.

are you accusing me of not scumhunting, or even active lurking. Please tell.

interesting:

Evilsnail: I am not going to answer my own question if nobody wants the answer

.

a few people answered this question why refuse to answer yourself?

Posting something that isn't going to be read is a waste of everyones time, and just fills the thread

Well you did answer in this post actually so the comment leaves me in a lot of pondering

myko why did you vote from DGB to raskol and with such a hypocritcal statement as this:

You completely forgot what you did with fishy, and went for the next target, with a less then spectacular case. Where are you going to run next?

Farside, please tell my what is hyporcritical about this. Hint: check the argument. There is something wrong, and it was talked about in the defense.

I love how myko says he didn't want to read the ou but clearly is.

I don't think I ever said that. I did say I don't expect everyone to do so, simply because it would be hard to keep up. As you know, from time to time I have way too much time to waste, so I hope it won't be a problem for me.

myko why would you switch you vote to CSL?

I would vote him for mindlessly bandwagonning and then hopping of as soon as it seems to fail, with an enigmatic: it has served it's purpose

The case on DGB is terrible. Speaking from what you posted as a case I can point to a time DGB said scum day talked and she was town. It's a null tell.

Lots of defending from myko and I didn't find a case that was really well thought out excpet raskol case.

both are easily explained. I almost never make a post simply to restate the arguments against someone. A "case" like that you won't often find with me, only when I feel I really need to convince people (close to a deadline, or something like that). My arguments are often divided over multiple posts, posted as I find them. You'll find that I have had opinions about far more people then only Raskol, something you try to insinuate here.

And I would like you to quote what you thought my case on DGB. Because I don't believe I have posted one.

[DrippingGoofball]

But yeah farside is total town. So is elvis.

Mykonian and ABR are still scum. Mykonian is the current vote leader, though. I don't care which one of those scumbags dies first.