A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[RichardGHP]

DGB/Elli, I have only played one game with you guys and it wasn't pleasant at all. In fact, the sheer aggression and condescension DGB so blatantly displayed caused me to replace out of the role that I had only replaced in to a couple of RL days beforehand.

As for the link Drippereth provided, that post was about policy lynches on people who play badly overall, like me, instead of those who play overly aggressive, lead mislynches on townies and are just extremely annoying to have to put up with, like DGB.

[Rifka Viveka]

Richard, you cant play this bad then whine when people are all over you for your scumminess. That is assuming your townie, which your blatant AtE implies

Benmage, thats the obstructionist attitude that gets you scumpoints in my book. Are you analyzing the thread posts? If you are why could you have questions as to why some players are scummy?

[Drippereth]

...lead mislynches on townies and are just extremely annoying to have to put up with, like DGB.

Nope. We lead a disproportionate number of lynches on SCUMS, not townies. That's why we get ourselves NK'd early. Townies need not fear us, we only produce minimal friendly fire. Not to mention how liberal we are with our townie calls.

Your premise is completely wrong, but everything you post makes sense as scum. I'm seeing IIoA, AtE, misreps, and no scumhunting. In deciding whether you are that insincere a townie, or scum, I consider that your behavior is too extreme for town, and that you are scum.

[vezopiraka]

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

[danakillsu]

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

??
??
??
That's about all I have to say about that...

[danakillsu]

I agree with Drippereth, for the record. I have no reason to dislike their play, and find what RichardGHP is doing somewhat scummy.

fos: RichardGHP

I'm still waiting, xvart.

[LimMePls]

^^RLY? We're soft name claiming? Is that necessary?

FOS: vezopiraka

I'm still loving my vote.

[Drippereth]

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

I can't see why a double vote would be so precious...

[Benmage]

Benmage, thats the obstructionist attitude that gets you scumpoints in my book. Are you analyzing the thread posts? If you are why could you have questions as to why some players are scummy?

I'm an obstructionists?? Do tell....how is asking someone to highlight, or restate a case at all bad?

I don't like vez's softclaim...he's either claiming tommen the little chubby lannister? Stannis or Renely.

unvote vote Drippereth

[LimMePls]

@Benmage does that vote come with any reason at all? And why do you feel the need to worsen his soft claim by pinning down who he was referring to?

FOS: Benmage

[Benmage]

@Benmage does that vote come with any reason at all?

And why do you feel the need to worsen his soft claim by pinning down who he was referring to?

FOS: Benmage

For those who are less book oriented as I am....and clearly the reason for voting him where in my last post .

[Drippereth]

DGB/Elli, I have only played one game with you guys and it wasn't pleasant at all. In fact, the sheer aggression and condescension DGB so blatantly displayed caused me to replace out of the role that I had only replaced in to a couple of RL days beforehand.

Orly?
1: I (Elli) REPLACED YOU in said game. You have played a game with my alt which we may be getting to later.
2: Game where DGB TERRORIZED RICHARD: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... highlight=
I recommend people just iso him fast, especially from ISO 4 onwards.
For you really lazy people, just look from here and the next few posts: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 24#2053224.
FOr the even lazier...basically Richard says he's lurking strategically and it's playstyle. People want him lynched and he replaces out. DGB was hardly the only one pushing his lynch. For Richard to want to policy lynch DGB just for what happened there is totally ridiculous.
RICHARD, QUOTE OVER SOMETHING FROM THAT GAME THAT MAKES SO DGB POLICYLYNCHABLE PLEASE!!!

As for the link Drippereth provided, that post was about policy lynches on people who play badly overall, like me, instead of those who play overly aggressive, lead mislynches on townies and are just extremely annoying to have to put up with, like DGB.

Hmf. Let's see your reasons policy lynching is BAD.

Lynchee could be an important Power Role
Lynchee won't learn how to improve their play if they get lynched Day 1 of every game
Chances are the Lynchee is town
Policy Lynching is condescending, unfair and non-sensical

Sooo, these things only apply to bad players, right? Points 1, 3, 4 don't apply to us at all?

[CCARaven4]

I don't like how vez is basically soft-claiming with these posts, that's all I can get out of them since I can't figure out what he/she's actually trying to say.

FoS: Vez

As for Richard, he's acting scummy, but this is kind of his game. In a concurrent game that he and I are in, he was acting really scummy D1 and flipped town miller, so I'm not sure how much stock we can put into Richard acting scummy.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

Does it matter that you get raised? No it doesn't. What matters is that we look for scums and lynch them. It looks like you're more concerned about having more votes then the situation of the town.

FoS: Vezopiraka

Oh and everyone, watch this from CryMeARiver:

Vote: Richard
Hey look, I just left the RVS, no random votes will be accepted from here on out without perfect reasoning. You know why? Because I said so and because I am Great and Badass alligned.
Raise: CryMeABadassRiver

CryMeARiver looked serious about the game from his first post. This is a really bad reason to vote a person. Now, look at this:

SSBF's is way too serious for me so I tend to get bad reads from him.

He said that my game play is way too serious.

This is hypocritical. He blames me for being too serious, yet he appeared serious from his very first post in this game.

FomS: CryMeARiver

[vezopiraka]

I have no idea about the books.
I have no idea if I'm next in line but it seemed like I am a royal figure more or less.

[vezopiraka]

I have no idea about the books.
I have no idea if I'm next in line but it seemed like I am a royal figure more or less.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@vezopiraka: 1. There was no reason to double post about the same thing, especialyl since they were more then twenety minutes seperate from each other. If you're going to double post, give us something to work on.

2. Your last two posts contributed absolutely nothing to the game. So what if you don't know about the book? It doesn't matter. You should also not care if you think you're a royal figure. Stop stalling.

[vezopiraka]

My internet connection broke down for about 3 minutes and the amount of loading needed here made it a double pots when I got back.

I think Cmar is scum. Will post a case sometime soon

[Axelrod]

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

Does it matter that you get raised? No it doesn't. What matters is that we look for scums and lynch them. It looks like you're more concerned about having more votes then the situation of the town.

FoS: Vezopiraka

Oh and everyone, watch this from CryMeARiver:

Vote: Richard
Hey look, I just left the RVS, no random votes will be accepted from here on out without perfect reasoning. You know why? Because I said so and because I am Great and Badass alligned.
Raise: CryMeABadassRiver

CryMeARiver looked serious about the game from his first post. This is a really bad reason to vote a person. Now, look at this:

SSBF's is way too serious for me so I tend to get bad reads from him.

He said that my game play is way too serious.

This is hypocritical. He blames me for being too serious, yet he appeared serious from his very first post in this game.

FomS: CryMeARiver

You consider that to be a serious post?

Really?

I thought it was funny to the point where I voted to Raise him as Hand. I didn't consider it serious at all.

[Benmage]

^^You didn't think CMaR was being serious when he declared the rvs over?

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

You consider that to be a serious post?

Really?

I thought it was funny to the point where I voted to Raise him as Hand. I didn't consider it serious at all.

I disagree. CryMeARiver looked pretty serious when he meant RVS was over. Here is where he further emphatize that RVS is over:

Again, pay attention, RVS = OVER

[xvart]

I agree with Drippereth, for the record. I have no reason to dislike their play, and find what RichardGHP is doing somewhat scummy.

fos: RichardGHP

I'm still waiting, xvart.

Someone is a little impatient! Why do you think I am more scummy than Richard?

@xvart
I do not find your answer to my case on you satisfactory or clear. Please make it more so.

That's probably because your "case" on me is so unclear; which is exactly why I asked you the follow up question, which you did not answer.

The first reason you are voting for me because I bandwagon, right?

The second reason is because of my post saying I don't think people are raising themselves to make other people look scummy, right?

I'm baffled because I don't see anything scummy about my post, unless you think I was somehow misrepresenting you, which is why I asked the question earlier. So, please clarify what is scummy (and vote worthy) about the second part of your case and then I would be happy to give a more detailed response to you. Otherwise, I can't really give you an "answer to your case" and won't really care.

xvart.

[Hayker]

vote:vezopiraka

Hokay so, what's up guys? I like food. Random statements over (maybe?)

Anyways...

Scanning through vez in iso.

He raises axel because it's good to see him. Now it's the second post, so I could be reading a bit much into this, but I see this as either scum buddying scum, or scum buddying town. He could be town buddying ??? too for whatever reason but....The first two are more likely in my experience.


Next post is a joke post syaing to raise Benmage....filler/buddying again.

Triple post over something I'm not holding against him for beign scummy. Just game mechanic ideas, many can be come up with. However, the lol triple post is filler...admitedly less scummy then usual filler. Still, a pattern might be occuring.

More filler posting telling our hydra to post only in the hydra.

And random posts syaing he wants to be the hand....awesome

Note:I have read the thread and have more thoughts then this. I think keep one post to one topic is simple though...and I'm working on being simple.(walks away with a chain rattling)

[MagnaofIllusion]

On the whole issue of the importance of the Double voter mechanic and potential harm to Town this post says it best –

A double voter is not that big of a deal. It's hardly a role that would (by itself) merit auto-Doc protection. I'm going to vote to raise someone I think is town, and then I'm going to pretty much forget about it. Even if we "raised" a scum, it would not be a problem until the end-game, which is a long, long way off.

I'm not those type of people who let meta dominate who I find suspicious, but saying that meta is a bad thing entirely is not true. Sure you shouldn't rely on it, but it can help give you the idea of how a player will play. For example, I am not voting Deer because he prefers smaller posts overall.

Ok, glad that you have clearly stated you position on Meta.

Also fosing MagnaofIllusion for voting someone for purely meta-gaming reasons, and then putting an unexplained raise vote on MacavityLock. Trying to slip something in to help prop up your scum buddy?

MagnaofIllusion, did you vote SSBF because you thought SSBF was more likely to be scum for meta-ing you, or because you wanted to protest against meta?

Voting for SSBF based on his initial post being meta driven was a testing measure. I wanted to see how he would react / explain his wiki-research. He explained his position in a manner I find acceptable. As for ML it was another testing measure. I wanted to see how self-consistent his “all not raising themselves are scummy” post was by raising him and not myself with no explanation. Note he said not one peep about it which tells me he wasn’t that invested in that stance.

But surely not scummy, even if you think it's a waste of time. Who is more likely to try to "meta" someone?

It’s at best a null tell in my eyes. The player more likely to try to “meta” someone actively is the player who believes strongly in meta. Town, Mafia and 3rd parties with that sort of believe each have reasons to use it (scum-hunting versus Town PR hunting, etc).

(4) That means you're not scum with LynchMePLZ, but you seized an opportunity to get a safe non-buddy wagon going on what you hoped might be a vulnerable player.

Please elaborate on how a single vote consistitutes an actual wagon and why you think Ani is likely to be a vulnerable player. If you can do convincingly so I’ll be inclined to agree that Deer is obvscum.

I didn't want to start a wagon. Again, sorry, it was a legitimate question.

Why are you apologizing if it was a legitimate question?

Obviously you didn't read the 2 pages of thread because I clearly stated RVS was over.
Again, pay attention, RVS = OVER

You know I would not have guessed that the identity of the RVS Lawyer who showed up would be you CMAR. You’ll be allowing me to test a pet theory of mine in any case.

This makes me want to do a Fonz on you guys. So I will.
Please agree to the following contract or explain why you will not.
1) I will not claim VT unless I am at L1, I am the leading wagon with an impending deadline, or during a massclaim, or our claim can somehow shed light on someone elses (for example: someone claims to have tracked you going somewhere).
2) I will provide reasoning with each and every one of my votes.
3) I will not selfvote, barring the 2:1:1 endgame scenario.
4) I will not lie about my roles. Period.

First of all appealing to authority (the Fonz) isn’t a good way to start this. And while I agree that all these points in general is Pro-town and I play in manner consistant with them I don’t see the point of asking that everyone agree in draconian style. And historically haven’t the biggest proponents of these lists end-up scum when all was said and done?

I find it pretty hilarious that you have a "genuine scum read" on me when we're only on Page 3 and nothing has even happened yet. If you have actual reasons, I'd like to see them. Otherwise, stop trolling.

Saying that scum-slips can’t happen early in the Day is foolish.

I'm not going to agree to a contract I will potentially break (see: bandwagoning), nor am I going to agree to a contract proposed by the only person in the game who is pushing on me. When, and only when, you are dead, I will agree to the contract.

The fact that you managed to contradict yourself within two sentances makes me think you are just making your stances up as you go.

IIoA is a nulltell, too, along with contradictions.

Contradictory statements / self-inconsistency is not a null tell. Trying to state it is raises right up on my suspicion list.

Town reads though are still suspicious, because there are likely more stellar town players than power roles.

Can you explain to me how this is relevant to the discussion of whether Town reads aid the Mafia in NKs or not? Because all you’ve done here is say that there are likely more good players than PRs. Bravo, what’s that significance?

Finally can you justify your “policy lynch” comments regarding Drip-Hyrda as anything other the personal grudge voting?

If you once again say that deer is scum I for one will vote for you and either if you or deer flips scum I will held a crusade to lynch the other

Sense – this makes none. Seconding your further explanation of what the heck you are trying to say.

Please use only this account and try to remember to log off from your main account

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

Vezo I’m going to ask this straight out – are you actively trying to cultivate a VI post style or are you generally this bad a player? I don’t want to insult you but the quotes above just make absolutely no sense and don’t contribute to scum-hunting at all.

Unvote, Vote: RichardGHP.

Your theories on what is or isn’t a scum-tell and your self-inconsistancy are the strongest scum-read I have at the moment.

Unraise, Raise:alexrod

You seem by far the most reasonable player that's not me so far.

Finally I'll be V/LA starting at 4pm EDT until Monday morning due to weekend family duties.

[vezopiraka]

I play like this.
I do scumhunting when I get a good read on someone. Right now richard seems the scummiest but I don't have a case on him yet