A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Mikujin]

@Mikujin: Just wow. I was honestly hoping that you were going to actually produce some contents. Instead, you basically said this:

"Doucebags like us should get more respect."

That's border-lining RVS comment and we've already gotten them. Your comeback was downright pathetic.

FoS: Mikujin

Well, it probably seemed random because it wasn't intended to be serious. What kind of asinine argument could I possibly be setting up by saying "Douchebags like us should get more respect?" Don't over analyze so much and lighten up a little. Sheesh.

[Eddard Stark]

Raivann replaces Deer active immediately

Thanks Raivann, welcome to Westeros.

[Raivann]

Hi all, I shall dine on hard cheese and spiced apples and mead whilst I read thread ...

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Well, it probably seemed random because it wasn't intended to be serious.

That's the problem. The post wasn't serious. And we've already gotten over 300 posts of contents to analyze and you gave us absolutely nothing to work on.

What kind of asinine argument could I possibly be setting up by saying "Douchebags like us should get more respect?"

It's a type of argument that will not favor you at all and is very unproductive. You didn't create any contents in that post and that's ridiculously shameful.

[MacavityLock]

I'll be in favor of raising you. Like others said, you have been playing very well. Although I prefer to raise Macavity Lock instead, you're not a bad choice either.

When had you ever mentioned me as a candidate for Raising? This is weird and out of the blue.

Hopping on the Richard bandwagon for now, 'til I have more time to read through the last few pages I've missed.

Unvote
Vote: Richard

Why get on the bandwagon before reading?

unvote

vote: richardhgb

I like a good bandwagon

Wow, what an amazing and compelling vote and argument. I am just flabbergasted on how you have convinced me how scummy richard is and how town you are.

This seems like such an

easy

post to make, picking out something obviously poor and snidely commenting on it.

Claim: Renly Baratheon

I am Robert's youngest brother. I have decided to be King, but their are currently bigger problems to attend to.

If I die, Ser Loras is able to perform one kill to attemp to avenge me. Therefore, I know Ser Loras is in the game. However, I do not know who (s)he is and what alignment they are. If Ser Loras dies before I do, nothing happens upon my death.
_______________________________________________________________________
Rereading this morning.

Shat,

Unvote

Quickly analyzing bandwagoning reasons

I have a problem with the immediate unvote. Why do you assume he's telling the truth?

1) Richard, is there a difference in your kill trigger depending on if you are lynched or killed?

I missed 295 where you answered this, my bad, sorry.

That said, Richard, please provide some content not directly related to your claim soon.

Why do you find it scummy that I ensured RichardGHP would not be quicklynched? LOOK WHO HE TURNED OUT TO BE! We also hadn't decided who to raise as Hand yet. I help town a lot and it's scummy. Go figure. I will do this again next time I have the opportunity, despite what others might think.

Do you mean "look who he claimed to be"? Why do

you

assume he's telling the truth?

I believe a double-voter power would better complement someone with a more declaratory style such as Cow or Percy.

I'd be in favor of raising either Percy or Cow to Hand. Both seem pro-town, as well as articulate and well-reasoned in their arguments. There are some others I could support, for the same reasons, but these two in particular.

Why hascow? Do we ignore DrModem's play? Also, weird that both picked out the same Raise candidates.

I'm know I'm going to sound like I'm contradicting what I said to Percy in this post, but I find that L-1 removal scummy because it seems like you're trying to buy RichardGHP some more time to claim and save himself by taking him off L-1. If he's at L-1, keep him there. Now yes, some votes were unwarranted, but he did deserve to have to claim to save his own butt.

I don't like this at all. People should be given the opportunity to claim. Additionally, dana specifically said for Richard to treat it as if he was at L-1. Seems like a pretty reasonable way to handle the situation to me.

I'm lurking because this is my first game with this many people and quite frankly I feel a bit overwhelmed when every time I check in the thread has grown by a page full of Wall'o'text posts.

Your case on CryMeARiver was basically a Wall Of Text, so that makes you kind of hypocritical.

This isn't really hypocrisy. If someone find Walls of Text intimidating to read through, it doesn't mean they can't also produce Walls themselves.

SSBF is scattershot and throwing out FoSes like they're candy. Can anyone tell me if this is common for his meta? I generally find that excessive FoSes (which are simply signifiers and have no actual game meaning) are a bit scummy. Like he's trying to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks.

I'm kind of debating between three places for my vote. Hascow's point about Vengeful is well taken, so I'm not sure whether to believe Richard's claim, and even if I do believe it, whether it's scummy. SSBF is all over the place and I really don't like it, but I think I want some meta corroboration, if anyone can provide. For now, I think I'll

Unvote, Vote: Hayker

. Little content, doesn't seem to be doing any heavy lifting, promises of more thoughts without providing.

[Drippereth]

@Mikujin: Just wow. I was honestly hoping that you were going to actually produce some contents. Instead, you basically said this:

"Doucebags like us should get more respect."

That's border-lining RVS comment and we've already gotten them. Your comeback was downright pathetic.

FoS: Mikujin

Mikujin is now almost confirmed scum. Why the wimpy FOS, when you have a vote?

[Drippereth]

... and it's time for an update.

TOWN

Drippereth
LynchMePls
Unsight
Benmage
Percy
Vezopiraka
DrModem hasdgfas
danakillsu
Super Smash Bros. Fan
RichardGHP

NEUTRAL

MagnaOfIllusion
Mina
MacavityLock
CryMeARiver
Axelrod
Rifka Viveka
animorpherv1
Raivann - Deer (I'm giving the replacement a chance)

SCUM

Kleedrac (conditional on Richard flip) *** very scummy now
I doubt it
Mikujin (wow, just wow scum)
Hayker (moved up for deepened lurking)

LURKERSCUM

Xvart
Paranoia
CCARaven4
Migwelloni

[danakillsu]

Wouldn't it be better for everyone if you stopped pretending to be a newbie?

I think it would be even better for everyone if you stopped pretending you know what my motivations are. I have no idea what you are talking about, or how you came to this conclusion. A newbie doesn't play remotely like I am playing.

Do you mean "look who he claimed to be"? Why do you assume he's telling the truth?

No, I mean who he turned out to be. There's no way he's lying when he claimed whom he claimed without a C-C. Do you doubt his claim?

[MagnaofIllusion]

First let me say welcome to Riavann and thanks to Deer. I wish more lurkers would have the good sense to replace rather than playing poorly.

Its definitely information over analysis. This kind of breakdown isnt available automatically, is it?

No it’s not automatically available. The point is that you’ve splattered the thread with a whole bunch of numbers but tell us nothing about what you think they mean. I ask again - Do 5 posts from someone like Mukuji (or insert your favorite low content poster) mean they are contributing more than 1 post from Percy (or a similar large content per post player)? Based on you list who are most likely to be scum?

You aren’t taking a stand. You are saying “Look at all these numbers”. You imply by the title using the negatively connotated word “lurker” that those with lower numbers are bad, but you don’t say anything definitive. Which is why IoA is generally considered a scumtell.

Well it was this post but I consider CMAR being scumier that this.

Care to document why? Or are you just looking for a safe looking spot on a secondary wagon to park your vote?

Granted, flavor is flavor who cares I was just thinking out loud...but let me ask you this, have you been in a large game of this size(on this site) with 1 anti-town faction. If so please tell me which one or link.

The answer to your question is no – I have no completed large games on this site. My experience with 16+ player games comes from another site where the vast majority of the time there is only one scum group (up to 8 in a 35 player game) and a number of 3rd parties.

ILLOGICAL
ILLOGICAL
ILLOGICAL

SYSTEM FAILURE

Why on Earth does this apply to Drippereth, but not other players? It's only a generality. You're moving down on the town/scum list.

Is that really the conclusion you draw from this? I specifically identified you as you were the

ONLY

player to ask specifically about whether others thought you should be raised or not? Where did I say it only applied to DripHydra? Any number of other playstyles I believe would not be enhanced by a second vote.

As for moving me down the list that’s fine if you want to. I’m not playing the game to appease other players. I’m here to hunt down scum.

Why hascow? Do we ignore DrModem's play? Also, weird that both picked out the same Raise candidates.

Dr. Modem was barely here long enough for his bad play to taint what I consider to be Cow’s well reasoned play. Also Percy and Cow are not my only raise candidates, given I’m currently raising Axelrod. I’d consider raising myself (of course), Percy, Cow, you (Macavity) and I’m on the fence about Mina. Alexrod’s recent low activity level has prompted me to

Unraise.

Unvote, Vote:Mikujin

The level of blatant active lurking and scuminess you bring to the table is mindboggling.

The content of 360, in which Kleedrac's main defense is that DripHyrda is a jackass could have easily bought my vote. Saying that their logic is bad but not saying why isn’t defense, it is the equivalent of 2nd grade “No, you are stupid” name calling. As we approach deadline I'd certainly entertain Kleedrac as a vote.

[vezopiraka]

unvote
Vote mikujin

The amount of scuminess in your posts is overwhemling

[vezopiraka]

unvote
Vote mikujin

The amount of scuminess in your posts is overwhemling

[Rifka Viveka]

The point is that you’ve splattered the thread with a whole bunch of numbers but tell us nothing about what you think they mean.

I think it means town players need to post more so they can be read and contribute towards winning. Im not impressed by your weak effort to paint me as scummy by this.

Unvote

Intending to vote mikujin at L1 bwhaha

[Mina]

Sorry, guys. I tried to write a post last night, but my Internet kept timing out every few minutes and finally died.

It seems to be working again, but I'll first post what I was working on last night (the quick stuff I didn't need to reread to say). My Internet is starting to get screwy again. I need to reread to make sure I'm remembering the facts correctly before I say stuff to LynchMePls, Drippereth, Benmage, and SSBF.

1) Welcome to the game, Raivann.

2) Richard, since I think we're allowed to discuss the structure of role PMs, in what section of your role PM does it say the part about Loras getting an extra kill? In the flavour text?

Mods: say something if you think this question is inappropriate.

~ I've no problem with this particular question, but would urge caution when discussing role pm's and things of that nature, preferably make sure your question is ok before you ask it as I'd obviously not want anyone to start quoting parts of pm's or anything.

Either way, this claim makes you look better, because if no one flips or claim Loras (or the person claiming Loras flips scum and something different), you'll be screwed.

3) That quick pile-up on Richard was horrible. I'd like to nuke the tail end of that wagon. Also, I'm annoyed with some of the argumentation in this thread. Putting someone at L-1 and trying to force a claim so early in a twenty-six player game is antitown, IMO. Taking steps to avoid a quicklynch or premature claim (although dana apparently wanted a claim) is protown. Scum sometimes do protown things and town antitown things, but this stupid black-is-white logic of ''He did something that makes him look town, therefore he must be scum!'' drives me crazy. As town, I've been suspected for asking people to unvote when someone was put at L-2 at the start of the game. As scum, I've gone uncalled on blatantly stating in the thread that I was impatient for people to put someone at L-1 and force a claim out of him.

4)

Wouldn't it be better for everyone if you stopped pretending to be a newbie?

Um...you realize that dana is saying in that quote he doesn't have experience

with Kleedrac

and not with the game overall? After days of not posting, that throwaway line in a post of a player you're not even voting is the only thing you thought was worth commenting on?

You know what, I'm going to try something different.

Vote: Unsight

. You seem like you're trying to look active, but you're just picking at minor points.

Need to reread Hayker and Kleedrac to make up my mind on them. I can see why they're getting votes, but I can't tell if they're scummy or just inexperienced or poor debaters.

Mikujin and Migwelloni are both interchangeably horrible, but it's impossible to read people who show as little respect for other players as to post nothing but jokes and crap bandwagon hops when people are asking you for content.

Faraday, did they ever send you links to completed games off-site?

(Yes. I'm pretty much asking this because I'm hoping they didn't and I want them out of this game. I'm a sweetheart like that.)

~ Players who hadn't previous experience on this site were allowed play after PM conversations with me, as such they'd not be in the game if they'd not pm'd me with links/relevant info.

5) I no longer have a town read on CMAR because of that horrible post to Axelrod and that softclaim. I have no clue what to make of him right now.

6) Percy: do you still like that raise on xvart?

7) MagnaofIllusion: I'm sorry if I misread you, but what points in particular did Axelrod make (other than the raising one, which was kind of safe since several people had said they liked that point) that you found were reasonable? IIRC, he hadn't said much yet at that point in time. You didn't mention what else you found reasonable. So it seemed as though you were raising Axelrod for being "the most reasonable player other than myself" purely because of his stance on raises.

My comment was also directed at this:

Also, I kind of like the idea of just raising someone who knows what they are doing, so

unraise raise: Axelrod

(Not that I think Lynch doesn't know what he's doing, but Axelrod, I think, is a little bit better)

Since no one had said much about Axel other than agreeing with his stance on raises, this kind of reads as, "People have said Axelrod is right about raises, so let's raise him."

Again, nothing against Axelrod. Not trying to cast doubt on him. But at that point, there wasn't enough to get a decent read of his alignment. I thought I should warn those jumping to raise him purely because they agreed with one sensible opinion of his to be more cautious. Also, he wasn't my horse in the race. (I can reveal the players I'm considering raising now if people really want to know, but I think it's more informative if I wait a little.)

---------

To be honest, I don't have a strong read on this game yet. I feel as though clumps of players all fit into general profiles (the wagon-hopping lurkers, the non-voting lurkers, the active players, the quiet reasonable ones, the overreacting hot-tempered VIs), but I can't discriminate between the fine details. And I have a feeling there are scum are among the more reasonable players who haven't slipped up yet.

[Raivann]

Ok I'm caught up. Richard post's are dripping with scumminess.
I don't believe his claim either...

Claim: Renly Baratheon

I am Robert's youngest brother. I have decided to be King, but their are currently bigger problems to attend to.

If I die, Ser Loras is able to perform one kill to attemp to avenge me. Therefore, I know Ser Loras is in the game. However, I do not know who (s)he is and what alignment they are. If Ser Loras dies before I do, nothing happens upon my death.
_______________________________________________________________________
Rereading this morning.

I was Jon Snow in the mini and fakeclaimed I could get 1 kill with my Direwolf.
Even in the 2% chance that Richard is town he can die knowing that Ser Loras will avenge him.
Who exactly is Ser Loras gonna kill anyways?
Isn't that just another reason to lynch Richard?
His entire claim is BS.
Avenge this Ser Loras..

Vote:RichardGHP

Raise: CrymeaRiver

I like his aggresive RVS play and he wants it.

[Rifka Viveka]

Hmm raivann there are no benefits from a player getting a one-shot vig?

Gotta say i think thats a weak opening post...maybe i unvoted deer too soon?

[Raivann]

Hmm raivann there are no benefits from a player getting a one-shot vig?

Gotta say i think thats a weak opening post...maybe i unvoted deer too soon?

Yes, there are benefits.
Thats exactly my point. We lynch Richard and in the off chance he's town and not lying, a player gets a 1 shot vig.

[vezopiraka]

I will /barn that. This is what I told you/ was going to tell you and forgot.

Unvote
Vote Richard

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.11: The

"Stick them with the pointy end"

votecount

.

Lynch Count

Super Smash Bros. Fan (3) -

CCARaven4, Unsight, Danakillsu

RichardGHP (5) -

Raivann, Animopherv1, Mikujin, migewelloni,vezopiraka

CryMeARiver (3) -

RichardGHP, Hasdgfas, Kleedrac

Drippereth (1) -

Benmage

Migwelloni (1) -

Super Smash Bros. Fan

Vezopiraka (1) -

Hayker

Hayker (3) -

Percy, Axelrod, MacavityLock

Danakillsu (1) -

xvart

Kleedrac (2) -

Drippereth, LynchMePls

Benmage (1) -

I doubt it

Mikujin (1) -

MagnaofIllusion

Unsight (1)

Mina

Not voting to Lynch (3) - Paranoia, CryMeARiver, Rifka Vivieka

Hand of the King Count

Kleedrac (1) -

Kleedrac

xvart (2) -

Percy, xvart

MacavityLock (1) -

MacavityLock

CryMeARiver (2) -

CryMeARiver, Raivann

RichardGHP (1)-

RichardGHP

Axelrod (2) -

vezopiraka

Benmage (1) -

Benmage

Drippereth (2) -

Rifka Viveka, Danakillsu

Mina (1) -

Super Smash Bros. Fan

MagnaofIllusion (1) -

LynchMePls

Percy (1) -

hasdgfas

Not voting to Raise (13) - Unsight, Paranoia, animorpherv1, Migwelloni, Hayker, Drippereth, Mina, CCARaven4, Mikujin, Axelrod, I doubt it, MagnaofIllusion

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to lynch and raise.

The deadline for today's lynch is

10:00pm EST on Tuesday the 22nd of June

. You can view a countdown to the deadline

here

.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Anyone who has read

Clash of Kings

: Is Ser Loras more of a protagonistic character or a antagonistic character? I'm asking this because I don't have any knowledge of the book (Interested to read it, thought) and it could help the town out in the long run.

@Rifka Viveka: Now that Deer got replaced by Raivann, would you mind explaining why you find me suspicious?

vezopiraka, you have still not answered MagnaofIllusion's question on if you usually play the way you do. I'm not liking your play at all at the moment and I'm considering changing my vote to you if you don't improve.

When had you ever mentioned me as a candidate for Raising? This is weird and out of the blue.

You were the first person I seriously considered to be raised period, so that was my very first post on suggesting who should be raised.

SSBF is scattershot and throwing out FoSes like they're candy. Can anyone tell me if this is common for his meta? I generally find that excessive FoSes (which are simply signifiers and have no actual game meaning) are a bit scummy. Like he's trying to throw everything at the wall to see what sticks

I honestly don't see how having a lot of suspects is a scum tell. It's not like I'm calling out everyone but me as a scum. I have town reads and scum reads and I do plan on going after my eight noticeable scum reads. Plus this is a large game, so it's normal to have a lot of suspect.

This will also be common in my meta for larger games because I don't see the point of just focusing on one or two people at the time. Prehaps I have more time then you to spend on the Internet and maybe because this is my 2nd Large Theme game, but I'm not a fan of tunneling and I want to make sure that my other noticeable suspects are not neglected.

Mikujin is now almost confirmed scum. Why the wimpy FOS, when you have a vote?

Because I already have suspects who I call scummier then Mikujin, although I will rest assure he is climbing up my suspect list.

[vezopiraka]

@magna: No. It was just my second most scummy read. Now mikujin took that place.

[hasdgfas]

I was Jon Snow in the mini and fakeclaimed I could get 1 kill with my Direwolf.

did you claim that the Direwolf was another player in the game? And that it got a kill when you died? Because that's what Richard's claiming. Not that he gets a kill.

Raise: CrymeaRiver

I like his aggresive RVS play and he wants it.

What did you like about it? Why is wanting a double vote a good reason to give it to someone?

[LimMePls]

@Macavity SSBF's meta is definitely lots of FOS. I can't post to any games, because they are ongoing. It is my understand that we aren't supposed to link to ongoing games, correct? Hopefully my mentioning this is not breaking the rules, if it is, please go easy on me mod, I can't find any rule on page 1 saying not to do this.

We lynch Richard and in the off chance he's town and not lying, a player gets a 1 shot vig.

I think there are much better lynch candidates. I don't want to lynch someone just because they can enable a vig. We don't know who the vig is, and whether or not they'll even use it well.

[Kleedrac]

The content of 360, in which Kleedrac's main defense is that DripHyrda is a jackass could have easily bought my vote. Saying that their logic is bad but not saying why isn’t defense, it is the equivalent of 2nd grade “No, you are stupid” name calling. As we approach deadline I'd certainly entertain Kleedrac as a vote.

I thought it was obvious but I suppose I did put it in a rather insulting manner on purpose. First of all as I'm sure Drippereth is a jerk if not pure scum;

Unraise
Raise: xvart

That should make sure it doesn't go to Drippereth.

As we still can't seem to agree on a lynch candidate I'll say now I'm in for a lynch on CryMeARiver or (as a last resort) Richard just to give tomorrow's discussion ammunition. It should be noted I'm still not convinced he's scum but the amount of people who formed the bandwagon can be examined in new light tomorrow whatever his flip brings.

[RichardGHP]

Raivann, you have absolutely no right to call my claim BS with no reasoning. If you're going to attempt to tear my claim to shreds, at least say why. Jesus.

He sounds like he just want rid of a townie, and I'd wager that he knows who Ser Loras is.

[Drippereth]

Unraise
Raise: xvart

That should make sure it doesn't go to Drippereth.

We had 3 raises, xvart had two. We were voting for YOU. Sounds like self-preservation and self-interest.

Hey look:

Raise: Drippereth