A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[LimMePls]

Prod is noted. Tomorrow is my mafia scum day. Trust me.

My trust was well deserved.

I'm beginning to think Raivann or CMAR are superior lynches to Kleedrac.

Keep posting Raivann, you're making this a lot easier.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

HoS: Raivann

Your last few posts have been absolutely terrible. I'd also like to add that your FoS against me was an OMGUS reply and that you have not been very productive in this game.

Has anyone played with him? If so, is this play style normal?

[Axelrod]

I'm pausing in my review to quick weigh in on two persons of interest atm.

Kleedrac

: I can see why he's accumulated votes. He's not contributed much and got extremely defensive and hostile when attacked by Drippereth. He claimed to be new and/or overwhelmed more than once. Then he basically said "Peace/Out."

The initial point Drippereth raised - that Kleedrac's stance on Richard smacked of a scum who knew Richard was town - was legitimate, though not as strong as Drippereth was acting like it was. And I am very sympathetic to Kleedrac in as much as I also find this style of Drippereth's

extremely

annoying (as I believe I noted before) and I can totally see how it could turn a player off, especially a new player, to the point where they'd just want to quit rather than deal with it. And that could happen with a player of either alignment.

What I liked about Kleedrac was that he did a decent post about CMAR early on (decent in that he made some actual arguments and looked like he was trying to make a real case - not in the sense that I agree with everything he said).

Raivann

: was Deer who I was not a fan of early on. Basically, Deer also reacted badly to an attack of Drippereth's (I'm sensing a pattern here....), didn't contribute, and quit after claiming to be overwhemled. Raivann entered the game jumping on the bandwagon of the moment (Richard's) with some questionable reasoning - I fake-claimed my role in the mini game and Richard's claim sounds like my fake claim, plus, even if we are wrong someone gets a vig. so it's not all bad. That was kind of meh to me. What is worse is his turn-around on Kleedrac. His first posted impression was "Call me a sucker, but I believe Kleedrac" which rapidly changed to "Vote Kleedrac - choo choo." That's underwhelming. The rest of his posts are kind of snarky and give the impression of just not caring that much.

The best I can say about him is that he's playing pretty loose and doesn't seem at all concerned about looking scummy - which can be hard to do when you are actually scum.

I'd say Raivann looks worse atm. And I'd probably put my vote there before adding one to Kleedrac. But I'm not voting anyone yet until I finish my review.

And Drippereth, fyi, this is one of the things that annoys me most about this "style" - while you certainly generate "reactions" from people, it's very hard to parse the scummy ones from the legitimately annoyed and/or frustrated ones, at least for me because I'm very sympathetic to them. And I'm saddened to think that you may actually be driving new players away from the game.

[Kinetic]

Hey, confirming, reading, posting here so you know I'm alive.

[Ellibereth]

Drippereth: I think people are voting Raivann because of his awful 180 on Kleedrac. I take it you don't think this is scummy?

I didn't look at whatever quote it came from but 180's aren't always that scummy at all.

And Drippereth, fyi, this is one of the things that annoys me most about this "style" - while you certainly generate "reactions" from people, it's very hard to parse the scummy ones from the legitimately annoyed and/or frustrated ones, at least for me because I'm very sympathetic to them.

Isn't that the whole game? Seperating townies from the scum? HZAM.

Right now I still think Kleedrac is more likely scum then Rai (who replaced deer who is still scummy etc. etc.) but talking with DGB.

[Drippereth]

Drippereth: I think people are voting Raivann because of his awful 180 on Kleedrac. I take it you don't think this is scummy?

I didn't look at whatever quote it came from but 180's aren't always that scummy at all.

And Drippereth, fyi, this is one of the things that annoys me most about this "style" - while you certainly generate "reactions" from people, it's very hard to parse the scummy ones from the legitimately annoyed and/or frustrated ones, at least for me because I'm very sympathetic to them.

Isn't that the whole game? Seperating townies from the scum? HZAM.

Right now I still think Kleedrac is more likely scum then Rai (who replaced deer who is still scummy etc. etc.) but talking with DGB.

[Eddard Stark]

It looks like we're back up and running.

We're still currently seeking replacements for Hayker and Kleedrac.

We'd prefer to not extend the deadline, as we've still got about a week before Nightfall.

[Mikujin]

Dana: what's your reasoning for Kleedrac hurting us more if he's scum than Raivann? Your post only seems to have the reason that Kleedrac isn't posting any more. Is that it?

I'm not saying he will hurt us more as scum, just that he WON'T hurt us LESS. However, if he is TOWN, Kleedrac will do much less for us than Raivann will if Raivan is TOWN. In other words, Kleedrac-scum is approximately equal to Raivann-scum. Kleedrac-town << Raivann-town. Therefore, if Kleedrac is equally scummy to Raivann, we should lynch Kleedrac. Do I make myself clear? Also, I would like to hear others' thoughts on my post that Raivann messed up on rather than their bashing of Raivann for messing up. I think the messing up part is a null tell, personally.

What sets them apart as townies? I mean, how/why is Raivann going to do any more for the town than Kleedrac would? It just strikes me as something odd, especially since Kleedrac is/was at least attempting to build cases against people, while Raivann's voting decisions certainly a lot more... unjustified. If anything, I'd hazard that the exact opposite of what you're suggesting is true: I think that if Kleedrac and Raivann both ended up being town that Kleed's contributions would be more substantial.

[Benmage]

@MOD

I doubt it's last post is the 10th can we get a prod?

[Rifka Viveka]

We'd prefer to not extend the deadline, as we've still got about a week before Nightfall.

Standing by for hammer duty I prefer raivann lynch. He was the original scum deer and still is

[Mina]

Rivka, why isn't your vote on Raivann?

And I would be very interested in the answer to this question:

I kinda agree with 479...is that really an unacceptable level of personal attack or the truth?

Rivka, I assume you still suspect Benmage, since you've been sniping at him all day. Do you disagree with I doubt it's case on him, but suspect Benmage for other reasons?[/quote]
This isn't just one of those "poking at random" or "try to get people talking" questions. Your answer to this will say a lot. And I mean

a lot

.

If Benmage was one of your top suspects earlier on (and I don't think you ever gave a reason for dropping your pursuit of him), then why are you making fun of someone for doing a case on him? If you wanted to single out the player in this game who's made the dumbest arguments and been the most anti-town, I certainly wouldn't choose I doubt it. So it seems to be his Benmage case that bothers you.

So answer this. Do you disagree with I doubt it's case on Benmage, but dislike it for other reasons? Is there something I doubt it has done that makes him look scummy/inexperienced to you? Is it because you heard SSBF, Drippereth, and Benmage say his case was bad, so you're just sheeping along? Are you just trying to be "one of the cool kids, LOL!" and join in with making fun of another player without getting your own hands dirty? Or is there a reason you dropped your suspicion of Benmage? I want you to explain, in detail, just why you think your case on Benmage is better than I doubt it's.

Also, Benmage, why was I doubt it's case on you worse that Rivka Viveka's? Or hell, than

mine

? (I mean, even I think my earlier suspicions of you were pretty much just bad vibes.) You've actually been really, really agreeable with me considering I accused you of passive aggressive bullying. (You come across as the type of player who'd get riled up by something like that.) You also seem pretty polite with Rivka. But you're telling I doubt it to replace out of the game because his case is so bad?

[Mina]

EBWOP:

1) I fail at quotes.

2) I mean, "Do you disagree with I doubt it's case on Benmage, but dislike

Benmage

for other reasons?"

[hasdgfas]

ok, the move has completely disoriented me, not the least reason because WT disappeared. Give me a day or so to figure things out again.

[Eddard Stark]

@MOD

I doubt it's last post is the 10th can we get a prod?

Done

[danakillsu]

Dana: what's your reasoning for Kleedrac hurting us more if he's scum than Raivann? Your post only seems to have the reason that Kleedrac isn't posting any more. Is that it?

I'm not saying he will hurt us more as scum, just that he WON'T hurt us LESS. However, if he is TOWN, Kleedrac will do much less for us than Raivann will if Raivan is TOWN. In other words, Kleedrac-scum is approximately equal to Raivann-scum. Kleedrac-town << Raivann-town. Therefore, if Kleedrac is equally scummy to Raivann, we should lynch Kleedrac. Do I make myself clear? Also, I would like to hear others' thoughts on my post that Raivann messed up on rather than their bashing of Raivann for messing up. I think the messing up part is a null tell, personally.

What sets them apart as townies? I mean, how/why is Raivann going to do any more for the town than Kleedrac would? quote]
Um....
How about...
Raivann is actually posting? And Kleedrac has simply given up?

[danakillsu]

Okay, that time, the forum messed it up FOR me somehow, because I know I didn't mess with the quote braces.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 1.16: The

"Ours is the Fury"

votecount

.

Lynch Count

Super Smash Bros. Fan (1) -

Unsight

RichardGHP (1) -

Kinetic

CryMeARiver (1) -

Hasdgfas

Drippereth (2) -

Benmage, Kleedrac

Vezopiraka (1) -

Hayker

Hayker (2) -

Axelrod, MacavityLock

danakillsu (3) -

xvart, Paranoia, Raivann

Kleedrac (7) -

Drippereth, LynchMePls, Super Smash Bros. Fan, danakillsu, RichardGHP, vezopiraka, I doubt it

Mikujin (1) -

MagnaofIllusion

Unsight (1)

Locke Lamora

Raivann (3)

Mina, Mikujin, Percy

Not voting to Lynch (3) - CryMeARiver, Rifka Vivieka, Julienvonwolfe

Hand of the King Count

xvart (2) -

xvart, Kleedrac

CryMeARiver (2) -

CryMeARiver, Raivann

Benmage (1) -

Benmage

Drippereth (2) -

Danakillsu, Drippereth

Percy (10) -

hasdgfas, Mikujin, MagnaofIllusion, MacavityLock, Percy, vezopiraka, I doubt it, Super Smash Bros. Fan,Rifka Viveka, RichardGHP

Mina (2) -

Paranoia, Locke Lamora

Not voting to Raise (7) - Unsight, Migwelloni, Hayker, Mina, CCARaven4, Axelrod, LynchMePls

With 26 alive, it takes 14 to lynch and raise.

The deadline for today's lynch is

10:00pm EST on Tuesday the 22nd of June

. You can view a countdown to the deadline

here

.

MOI, JVW, Paranoia's and MacLock's V/La are noted.

Replacing Kleedrac and Hayker.

I doubt it has been prodded and we will begin looking for another replcement if he doesn't pick up his prod. If you have any friends urge them to replace in!

[danakillsu]

"danakillsu (2) -xvart, Paranoia, Raivann"
Is this correct? Did someone lose their vote for today?

[danakillsu]

Oh, and one more thing. We only have six days, so if most people want to lynch Raivann, I suggest they begin doing so. Otherwise, just vote for Kleedrac.

[danakillsu]

" If you have any friends urge them to replace in! "
I think I know someone who might be interested...

[Mina]

Waiting on Rivka and Benmage.

I have to leave for work now, but here's the post I was working on Monday before the forum went down:

Welcome, julienvonwolfe and Kinetic. This is like a huge Mini 926 reunion! Since Seacore's modding, all we're missing is Confucius, Buttonmen, Heliograph, and Inquisition.

Wow. I'd started explaining in more detail just why I voted for Raivann Sunday night--before my brother stole the computer while I was in the shower and I fell asleep. (To summarize, it was the flip-flop on Kleedrac combined with his poorly rationalized jump on Richard--see below.) But, um...Raivann seems to be doing a good job of that himself now.

Sorry I read Dana's post wrong, I'm buzzing pretty good right now.

I wonder if this explains a lot.

Has anyone played with him? If so, is this play style normal?

Not in the slightest. In the GoT mini, he made an effort to scumhunt, reread the thread and looked beyond the surface, pressured people, and came off as fairly genuine. His play was a little erratic, particularly right before his lynch on D2 (which also might have been alcohol-induced), but nowhere close to this bad. He certainly wasn't jumping on easy bandwagons and flip-flopping on suspects. I might be biased because I was scum in that game, though. Maybe you should ask Percy, Locke Lamora, or MacavityLock, since they suspected him in the mini.

I would rather we lynch Richard, but it doesn't seem to be going that way, so I hopped on popular wagon. Do I believe we have better chance of hiting scum with Richard lynch? Yes. But I'll go with the flow D1.

But it's a popular wagon

on a player you thought was town

.

When you'd joined, we had a couple of weeks until the deadline--certainly not compromise lynch time. You should have been trying to catch up and give us your thoughts on everything you've missed. It wasn't too late to push a wagon on a player you suspect. But when you moved your vote to Kleedrac, you hadn't given us opinions on anyone other than Richard (you suspect him, but you won't say why) and Kleedrac (you believe his outburst, but you're still voting for him).

Please answer Locke's question:

Raivann: so do you still think Kleedrac's frustration is legitimate townie or not?

I was Jon Snow in the mini and fakeclaimed I could get 1 kill with my Direwolf.

1) You were Robb Stark in the mini, VANILLA TOWNIE, and just fake-claimed having a daykill right before your lynch to get reactions,
2) Even if I'd ask

what the hell you pretending to have a daykill

has to do with the likelihood of a one-shot vig whose power is activated by another player's death,
3) here's an interesting post by Faraday, in the graveyard QT, WHICH YOU READ:

Ah, the set-up isn't anything overly complex. As I said I think I Op'd the scum a little but lesson learned for next time...Shoulda given raivann a daykill w/ the flavour he claimed maybe

Faraday was also considering having a vengeful townie in AGoT.

(I actually do think that there's a chance that Richard's role is fake, since the roles in the mini were a lot more conventional and had titles like Vigilante/Double-Voter/Doctor. And Richard never answered my question about his PM structure. But either way, it's a claim that's very easily provable or disprovable later on--particularly if it turns out that the Tyrells/Baratheons are a scum faction.

Actually...I can't believe I'm advocating nameclaiming, but if someone is town-aligned and has a character name related to the Baratheons/Tyrells, it might be a good idea to claim it--

not your role

, just your character. Unless you're Loras, of course. Renly was a VT in AGoT, but multiple Mafia factions allied with each king's cause makes sense for ACoK.)

[quote="danakillsu]Um....
How about...
Raivann is actually posting? And Kleedrac has simply given up?[/quote]
Kleedrac is getting replaced, anyway, so this argument doesn't work.

Also, I would like to hear others' thoughts on my post that Raivann messed up on rather than their bashing of Raivann for messing up. I think the messing up part is a null tell, personally.

Sorry, which post are you talking about? Who's suspecting Raivann for "messing up"?

[Eddard Stark]

"danakillsu (2) -xvart, Paranoia, Raivann"
Is this correct? Did someone lose their vote for today?

FIX'D

Also I'd fix tags but I can't edit other peoples posts at the moment.

[I doubt it]

Awesome, the forums are back up. I need a day or so to catch back up again, so expect some content later today or tomorrow at the latest.

[Mina]

GAH, I HATE QUOTE TAGS! They are my nemeses!

[danakillsu]

Um....
How about...
Raivann is actually posting? And Kleedrac has simply given up?

Kleedrac is getting replaced, anyway, so this argument doesn't work.

Are you sure? Eddard Stark doesn't seem to be saying this. If Kleedrac is replaced with someone decent, I'd be just as down for a Raivann lynch I guess. But my point about the timing is still valid.
And I'm talking about my June 13, 8:31 PM post. And Mikujin was bashing Raivann.