A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Ugh, just forgot that it was DrModem that hasdgfas replaced, not Migwelloni, My defense still stands, thought.

Is there any reason for this besides buddying? I don't see it as any part of an argument that you're making or an explanation of anything. Why would you say this, and what are you trying to say?

Why I said that: I personally didn't like your predecessor's play at all, but I did want people to remember that that's not the case with you.

What I'm trying to say: I didn't like your predecessor's play, but you have improved a lot upon him, hence why I have a strong town read on you.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

My case against vezokpiraka

His play has been scummy ever since near the beginning of the game. Here, I put all the pieces together to help prove that he is indeed lynch-worthy.

First of all, I want all of you to know that vezokpiraka is an experienced player, at least according to what he said over in an ongoing game, so there is no reason for his overall poor play here.

The raising dilemma

I'll do that but it's not bold so it doesn't count. raise that guy.

Apprently, he's supporting to raise Benmage, but from what I can recall, he never does it under any circumstances.

@everyone: I think that for the first day or in some cases if we don't want to raise a hand we can raise the one who will be lynched so nobody could die because of it.

This is a horrible idea. He wanted to raise someone who would be lynched, so no one would die because of it. If we had followed his suggestion, this would be a complete waste of time and would benefit no one. This is why raising Percy was such a great idea, he is currently the strongest player here.

That thing is not useful. So we have to pick a double voter? on day 1.
If we target scum we have a double voter scum.
If we raise town we have a double voter dead.
If we raise town scum may create WIFOM and make us lynch him.

All cases equal bad for town. I still suggest raising the one we are lynching

He argues that double voting isn't really useful at all. When placed in the right hand (As this is probably the case), it can be more beneficial to town than to scum. What if Percy has his vote on two scums already? Overall, his argument is definently not convincing.

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

I personally call this a selfish move by him. Now yes, everyone wanted to be the double voter (Myself as well, as I did raise myself for awhile), but I really didn't like this post at all. He doesn't explain why he should be raised at all, let alone a legitimate one.

I have no idea about the books.
I have no idea if I'm next in line but it seemed like I am a royal figure more or less.

I really don't see any purpose for this comment under any circumstances. I haven't read the books, but I don't use that as an excuse for not trying in this game. On top of that, I don't really care if vezokpiraka thinks he's a royal figure or not.

Promise made, but never delievered

I think Cmar is scum. Will post a case sometime soon

He never made a real case on CryMeARiver, despite voting him a few times. While I did think that CryMeARiver was scummy, he defindently didn't convince me into thnking that.

Bandwagoning and unexplained suspicions.

These are some of his worst offense in the game by far. He has done this so often, it's not even funny. Usually, it is with minimal reasoning and gives us very little to work on. First major example:

unvote
Vote Richard

Your last post is ultra scummy.

This is obvious bandwagoning. He doesn't give any explanation why he found that post scummy. None, just said that his last post at the time was scummy. Continuing:

unvote
Seems a legit claim to me. I guess the one who gets the extra kill is town. Vengeance for a scum is pretty weird.

After putting almost no effort in pushing RichardGHP, he unvotes mainly because of his claim.

Well it was this post but I consider CMAR being scumier that this.
vote CryMeARiver

Now this is where it begins to get bad. All he basically said was that he considered CryMeARiver to be scummier then RichardGHP's post that cause him to vote him. He doesn't provide any explanation whatsoever on why CryMeARiver was scummy.

unvote
Vote mikujin
The amount of scuminess in your posts is overwhemling

Once again, he gave absolutely no reason why he found a person scummy. While it might been Mikujin's 2nd vote on him, it defindently sounds like he's trying to leech off MagnaofIllusion's reason for voting him.

I will /barn that. This is what I told you/ was going to tell you and forgot.

Unvote
Vote Richard

Less then three hours later, he changes his vote to RichardGHP. Gives absolutely no new reasons for voting him. The vote was completely worthless.

Kelraac made really bad responses. I don't care what you would say.
unvote
vote Keldraac

The Kleedrac bandwagon was relatively large at the time. Vezokpiraka votes for him. Unfortunently, all he said was that he made really bad responses. He doesn't say why they're bad or what responses Kleedrac made was bad.

Unvote
Vote CMAR

Same thing only CMAR wagon has more steam

This is blatant bandwagoning on a person. People should note that this is taken at the exact same time where he voted Raivann. Inconsistency much?

unvote
vote raviann

Everyone from CMAR wagon switch here. I don't want this day to end in a no lynch

vezokpiraka sounds extremely desperate for a lynch to happen here. Yes we didn't have much time for a lynch, but he could have at least given a good explanation for switching his vote to Raivann again.

I said fake claim cause I thought he was scum with CMAR. After what axel said I come to think I might be wrong.

Anyway. This is the only way to prove it.

unvote
Vote Richard

Basically, he said the only way to prove Richard's claim right was to lynch him. He is wrong in this circumstance. RichardGHP could have been Night Killed and that would have proved if his claim was right of if he was a lying scum bag. This claim is more likely true because of julienvonwolfe's death. I feel like he was trying to bandwagon RichardGHP again, hoping to kill him.

Richard wagon is not moving but this should end in a lynch
unvote
vote CMAR

His last vote of Day 1 is also horrible. He expressed dissatification of RichardGHP's wagon not moving to a lynch, so in order to ensure that, he basically makes an obvious bandwagon on CryMeARiver.

Other things to note

I play like this.
I do scumhunting when I get a good read on someone. Right now richard seems the scummiest but I don't have a case on him yet

I don't like how he basically relies on meta fo his defense and doesn't really defend his action. He said that RichardGHP was the scummiest person at the time, yet he doesn't have a case on him A.K.A. suspicion without explanation.

Obv fakeclaim.
You were voting to raise CMAR.
I don't want to lynch a vig now.
If CMAR flips scum raviann should be obv scum.

Someone asked who I believe scum.
I believe both of them are scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CMAR

This post is horrible. A few things I especially disliked about it.

Obv fakeclaim.

I don't want to lynch a vig now.

Major contradictions here. He said that it was an obvious fakeclaim, but on that exact same post, he said he didn't want to lynch a vigilante now.

Someone asked who I believe scum.
I believe both of them are scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CMAR

He doesn't explain his vote on CryMeARiver at all. This isn't what I call a good response to a question, plus this is bandwagoning without giving good explanations.

Overall:

Give me

one

good reason to keep him around. Just

one

. To me, this person has contributed next to nothing in this game. He has been scummy all over the place and he needs to die ToDay. Unless vezokpiraka improve his game Day 2, this stance will stay.

[LimMePls]

Give me one good reason to keep him around. Just one.

I'll give you two. VI is his town meta (although I can't provide links sorry). And there are much larger fish to fry (dana and you to be exact). I'd be much more convinced if you attacked someone else, but vezo reads like a scummer's dream target as he is really VI sounding. Part of it is his language barrier problem, and part of it is age (I'm guessing on this one, but I suspect Vezo is not very old).

Your case is overreaching and seems a bit desperate to me.

Unvote
Vote: SSBF

Time to die scum.

[Rifka Viveka]

Common theme with SSBF seems to be talking about how well people are or are not playing, not if they are scum.

Im actually liking drippy for a raivann buddy aswell. He\she\it\they\them seized the first chance to start directing off his wagon prior to claiming, IIRC

[Mikujin]

While I'm still behind a policy lynch on Vezo, who has continuously been "contributing" little, I'm not sure I like SSBF parroting my previous case on Vezo. Beyond that case, I pushed for Vezo's lynch a lot before met with a lot of "He's the VI" rebuffs. I can certainly see where those feelings came from, and lessened the pressure on Vezo in favor of the much more favourable Raivann lynch. That SSBF opens up D2 by posting a wall of text case on a player most people haven't given serious second thoughts to seems like he's just trying to redirect some heat to an easy target. Unsusccessfully.

That said, I believe Percy's case on dana is much more weighty than those on SSBF - for now. Raivann flipping scum (godfather) certainly gives much credence to Percy pointing out dana's wishy-washy attitude towards the Raivann. He'd repeat that Kleedrac(Budja) and Raivann were both equally scummy, but he preferred Kleedrac - who we now know was innocent. This circumstance certainly lends itself to proving dana's scummitude.

vote: danakillsu

[Drippereth]

Hi guys, the hydra has been slacking and is commencing catching up.

[Drippereth]

First of all, neither of us logged in and checked PMs or anything, thinking the other had done it.

I think SSBF is town (gut), though the case is convincing (head). We had vezo pegged as town yesterday, so until I'm fully caught up I cannot independently agree or disagree with the case. I like to make my own mind.

I need to look at the late wagoners for Raivann. Scumz that resisted bus'ing might have had to do it when it started to look hopeless.

I do like IDI's case on danakilsu, since it fits my theory.

[Drippereth]

Hahaha.

Raivann claimed vig. Oh that's too funny. Then the real vig, vig'ed him.

Who fakeclaims vig?

Richard is still scum, Mina sure seems scared to leave me alive. Percy seems to always wanna lynch me.

One of these three is scum.

[Drippereth]

I'm not as sure as the rest of you that Percy is town.

[Drippereth]

With a flashlight, you can read late at night.

My book says that Percy IS scum.

[Mikujin]

@Drippereth: You declared a town read on Raivann here and never really changed your stance on that, so much as you did your stance on other players. This, coupled by your complete lack of evidentiary support for pretty much every callout you've made this game have me wondering what worth you are to the town in this game? Seriously, after reading over your ISO, you're just a bunch of stupid lists, finger-points, and dismissive "I'm right 'cause I'm right" statements. If you're right, let us know

why

you're right, instead of trying to look down on us from on high, assuming we'll follow you like sheep. I don't like you as town, but I like you less as scum. I understand there's likely some thought that goes on between those two heads of yours, but you're doing no favors to either the town or your position in it by withholding arguments in favor of those whose alignments you call out.

I hope that didn't sound too explosive, but I've felt it's been a long time coming. I'm still waiting for you to provide us with something more that ERRONEOUS ACCUSATIONS IN CAPS. Oh, and I suppose it'd also be of poignant interest to make mention that the two people you pushed most yesterday both ended up town. Everyone makes mistakes, though, right?

[Drippereth]

I felt that Deer was town. Then, that Kleedrac was scum. I thought that the scum was trying to distract from the Kleedrac wagon with a Raivann wagon, because Raivann didn't really stand out to me.

I (DGB) am now dead in a few games, so I'll be able to spend more time in this one.

[I doubt it]

Give me one good reason to keep him around. Just one.

I'll give you two. VI is his town meta (although I can't provide links sorry). And there are much larger fish to fry (dana and you to be exact). I'd be much more convinced if you attacked someone else, but vezo reads like a scummer's dream target as he is really VI sounding. Part of it is his language barrier problem, and part of it is age (I'm guessing on this one, but I suspect Vezo is not very old).

Your case is overreaching and seems a bit desperate to me.

In addition to these points, Raivann's death suggests that there's a vig out there. Vezo is the kind of player who needs to be vigged rather than lynched. There's little to be learned from a vezo lynch, as most his content is just bandwagoning.

SSBF sure is going after the easy target. SSBF wagon needs more votes.

I do like IDI's case on danakilsu, since it fits my theory.

Which theory is that again? As far as I can tell, this is the first time you've expressed any doubts about dana being town.

[Drippereth]

The theory that scum would be late on the Raivann bus, especially since there was a credible alternative.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 2.1: The

"I'm honest. It's the world that's awful. Now fly away little bird, I'm sick of you peeping at me. "

votecount

.

Lynch Count

Vezokpiraka (1) -

Super Smash Bros. Fan

Danakillsu (3) -

Percy, Thor665, Mikujin

CSL (1) -

Percy

Super Smash Bros. Fan (3) -

hasdgfas, I Doubt it, LynchMePls

Not voting to Lynch (15) -

Kinetic, MacavityLock, RichardGHP, xvart, Axelrod, MagnaofIllusion, CSL , Vezokpiraka, Locke Lamora, Unsight, Rifka Vivieka, Danakillsu, Benmage, Drippereth, Mina

With 22 alive it takes 12 votes to lynch.
The deadline for today's lynch is

10:00pm (CDT) on Sunday the 18th of July

. You can view a countdown to the deadline

here

.

[Thor665]

I'd earlier expressed issues about Mikujin (lurking) and he had countered that his play picked up later. I agree with his assessment and withdraw from my stance on that slot and shall reset it into a neutral zone.

I like the dana, SSBF, and CSL wagons - all of these players have done enough that I think they are pretty good options as vote targets. dana still looks the most likely scum of the three to me. My issues with CSL are almost pure gut and a lurking feeling so of the three he's probably my weakest scum read, but I am not against the wagon like I was against some of the wagons yesterday.

I really agree with the comments about the vezo wagon that SSBF is pursuing. As I'd said earlier, his scumminess almost seems so overt as to be inconceivable. I think those who are calling him the classic VI are fairly spot on. Him eating a bullet (hacking?) would not be a bad thing, I think we can find some better uses for rope.

[LimMePls]

Dripp's early game play seemed really good to me. Second half of day 2 and today... not so much.

dana or SSBF need more votes ppl.

[Mina]

Oh, Raivann. Nice try.

Figures that the one time I trusted a vig claim, I was wrong. But then again, I was right that you'd have to be really dumb as scum to fakeclaim vig.

You know, dana votes are all well and good (and I agree with Mikujin that SSBF's vezokpiraka case seems like picking an easy target and bombarding him with text to direct heat elsewhere), but why has everyone except Percy ignored this post and this post?

Vote: CSL

Obviously, Raivann has more than one buddy. I'll reread dana to see how much I like the case on him. At the time I didn't find his positions on Raivann vs. Kleedrac that damning--I didn't see a huge difference between "Raivann and Kleedrac are about equally scummy" and "Raivann is almost as scummy as Kleedrac," and I think scum are usually reluctant to outright say, "Let's not lynch my buddy"--but his jump onto CMAR and FOS of Percy while caving to his pressure was horrible. danakillsu and SSBF are both big blindspots for me.

(That said...I've played with dana, and he isn't the brightest bulb. In a game where the mod had been caught ripping off all the roles from a game off-site that featured a a team of mason-rolecops, this is a guy who believed scum over the mason claiming the investigation of a buddy WHO'D JUST BEEN NIGHT-KILLED AND FLIPPED THE SAME ROLE THAT APPEARED IN THE OTHER GAME. And then STILL believed the scum was telling the truth the next day, AFTER THE SECOND MASON FLIPPED TOWN. Like, not the brightest bulb at all.)

But I think CSL's behaviour was at least as bad as dana's. Ignoring his overall scummy play, let's summarize his connections to Raivann:

1) CSL votes Kleedrac (who was the leading wagon at the time), and puts Deer/Raivann in his scum reads. Is slightly suspicious of CMAR.

2) Then CSL votes CMAR "to get a lynch" when CMAR and Raivann are neck-in-neck in the votecount.

3) When I call him on this, he says both CMAR and Raivann are scummy, but CMAR is scummier. And Kleedrac is scummiest, but it's too late to push him.

4) But then when I point out that he said Raivann was scummier before, he goes back to his story about just wanting to get a lynch--any lynch--implying he always found Raivann scummier.

5) Also, he said that anyone who wanted to lynch Richard should be lynched on the spot...but pretty much ignored anyone who said they wanted to lynch Richard, including Raivann.

I have a feeling that most of the people who can explain last night are dead.
I have a theory on why Jaq'en "suicided," but it might provide the scum with a handy fake claim later on. Either way, if it's true, then the person directing our vig kill chose Budja over the player WHO CLAIMED VIG WHEN THAT DIRECTOR KNEW THERE WAS ANOTHER VIG IN THE GAME...so it's probably for the best that we lost the hired assassin as early as we did.

Torn as to whether Loras flipping "triggered" vengeful townie implies that he set off a vengeful kill on Raivann--meaning one team's kill was blocked--or whether the other scumteam killed Raivann.

By the way, in the prequel mini, each killer had his or her own kill flavour. If the same player was targeted twice, both flavours would show up. So since Raivann was only hacked to pieces (as opposed to, say, "hacked to pieces and disemboweled"), he was only targeted once.

We have one huge advantage today: we know the alignments of all four players who were wagoned yesterday. This will help us find not only Greyjoy scum, but other-faction scum.

Ugh, I wish I could borrow the brain of several logical-partnership-analysis types I know. Last night I started rereading the game from page one and taking notes on the formation of the four wagons...but it's soooooo tedious. And so much of it is WIFOM. Not sure if I'll share my entire thought process or just my conclusions, because I already have a wall on the first two or three pages of the game. It probably won't be done for a while, especially since I have to leave, now.

[Mina]

Richard is still scum, Mina sure seems scared to leave me alive. Percy seems to always wanna lynch me.

One of these three is scum.

Um...

Richard is confirmed town, I was the first person on Raivann's wagon, and Percy was the third (I suppose Percy's jump onto CMAR and back to Raivann

could

be a case of distancing from a buddy, briefly supporting an alternate lynch when it seemed viable, before deciding once and for all to cut ties--I'll reread the evolution of his opinions in context--but that would be kind of convoluted). You're better off making a case that we're on the other scumteam.

Also, please explain why Percy is definitely scum. Yesterday I was irrationally paranoid of Percy for reasons that could be pretty much summarized as "bad vibes," and thought you were seeing the same things I was (I owe him a better explanation for the "softly supporting wagons" comment when I have more time, since it was really more a paranoid gut impression of how he seemed to support the wagon on Richard even though he disagreed with it, and, uh, cast doubt on Raivann's claim ), but right now I feel much better about Percy than I do about you.

I agree 100% with Mikujin and LynchMePls. You've been really, really off since the Kleedrac wagon fizzled--and hell, even before then. DGB is known for vote count analysis, right? Why don't you do some of that instead of relying on such shallow reasoning?

I felt that Deer was town.

Then, that Kleedrac was scum. I thought that the scum was trying to distract from the Kleedrac wagon with a Raivann wagon, because Raivann didn't really stand out to me.

*cough*

Okay. This seriously has to be a joke. This is too big a slip for all but the most incompetent scum.

I've just read your ISO. This is already a wall, so I won't bother quoting EVERY. SINGLE. TIME you've said that Deer was obvious scum who should be lynched on the spot.

Instead, I'll just post these two lists, between right before and right after Deer replaced out:

SCUM
Kleedrac (conditional on Richard flip) *** very scummy now
I doubt it
Deer

NEUTRAL
<snip>
Raivann - Deer (I'm giving the replacement a chance)

So apparently, you thought Deer was scummy up until the very minute he replaced out, and then moved Raivann to neutral just to give him a chance to catch up.

My initial thought was that even you two wouldn't be bold enough as scum to lead the first wagon out of RVS on a buddy (although you switched to pushing a townie lynch afterward), and then drop all that distancing when he was in danger of a lynch. But explain right now why, if you're town, you just lied about your read on Deer.

[Ellibereth]

First of all, neither of us logged in and checked PMs or anything, thinking the other had done it.

Oops. This is my fault.

(That said...I've played with dana, and he isn't the brightest bulb. In a game where the mod had been caught ripping off all the roles from a game off-site that featured a a team of mason-rolecops, this is a guy who believed scum over the mason claiming the investigation of a buddy WHO'D JUST BEEN NIGHT-KILLED AND FLIPPED THE SAME ROLE THAT APPEARED IN THE OTHER GAME. And then STILL believed the scum was telling the truth the next day, AFTER THE SECOND MASON FLIPPED TOWN. Like, not the brightest bulb at all.)

I NEED TO SAY THAT I OFFICIALY WON THAT SINCE I WAS A SURVIVOR BUT GRIMMY SCREWED UP.
OK THANKS.

I'm not sure what DGB meant, prob mistype, but my timeline with that slot was:
Deer = Scum, replaces out for Raivann, Raivann posts and moves from scum -> neutral -> town supplemented by the claim.

[Drippereth]

First of all, neither of us logged in and checked PMs or anything, thinking the other had done it.

Oops. This is my fault.

(That said...I've played with dana, and he isn't the brightest bulb. In a game where the mod had been caught ripping off all the roles from a game off-site that featured a a team of mason-rolecops, this is a guy who believed scum over the mason claiming the investigation of a buddy WHO'D JUST BEEN NIGHT-KILLED AND FLIPPED THE SAME ROLE THAT APPEARED IN THE OTHER GAME. And then STILL believed the scum was telling the truth the next day, AFTER THE SECOND MASON FLIPPED TOWN. Like, not the brightest bulb at all.)

I NEED TO SAY THAT I OFFICIALY WON THAT SINCE I WAS A SURVIVOR BUT GRIMMY SCREWED UP.
OK THANKS.

I'm not sure what DGB meant, prob mistype, but my timeline with that slot was:
Deer = Scum, replaces out for Raivann, Raivann posts and moves from scum -> neutral -> town supplemented by the claim.

[Drippereth]

Took quick glance at wagons.

RichardGHP (13) - CryMeARiver, MacavityLock, I doubt it, LynchMePls, xvart, Drippereth, MagnaOfIllusion, danakillsu, vezopiraka, Deer, Animopherv1, Mikujin, migewelloni
L-1, 3-4 Scum, Deer is on.
Cry is town, Lynchme is town, we're town, vezo is town, Miku is town.
2, 3{Mcav, I doubt, cvart, Magna, Ani, dana. mige}

Kleedrac (8) - Drippereth, LynchMePls, Super Smash Bros. Fan, danakillsu, RichardGHP, vezopiraka, I doubt it, Raivann
L-6...2 scum sounds about right, and Raivann already there
We're town, Lynchme is town, Richard is town, I'm going to continue to insist that vezo is town because of that softclaim
1 Scum in {Supersmash, dana, I doubt it.}

CryMeARiver (10) -Hasdgfas, LynchmePls, MacavityLock, RichardGHP, xvart, vezopiraka, Axelrod, MagnaofIllusion, CSL , Raivann
L-4, 2 or 3 probs, again with Raiv already though.
Cow is town, Lynchme is town, Richard is town, vezo is town.
1, 2 in {Mcav, xvart, Axel, Magna, CSL}

Raivann (11) Mina, Mikujin, Locke Lamora, julienvonwolfe, I doubt it, Rifka Vivieka, Percy,Thor665, Danakillsu, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Vezokpiraka
(+ Benmage, LynchmePls)
L-1, 2-3 bussing on probs?
Mina is town, Miku is town, julien is town, vezo is town
2-3{Locke, I doubt, Rifka, Percy, Thor, dana, supersmash}

CryMeARiver (14) - Hasdgfas, MacavityLock, RichardGHP, xvart, Axelrod, MagnaofIllusion, CSL , Raivann, Mikujin, Percy, Budja, Vezokpiraka, Locke Lamora, LynchMePls
LYNCH, 3-4, with Riavann
Cow is town, Richar is town, Miku is town, Budja is town, vezo is town, Lynch me is town.
3, 4{Mcav, xvart, Axel, magna, CSL, Percy, Locke}

[Drippereth]

Oh yeah, hand of the king vote too.

Percy (14) - hasdgfas, Mikujin, MagnaofIllusion, MacavityLock, Percy, vezopiraka, I doubt it, Super Smash Bros. Fan, Rifka Viveka, RichardGHP, Lynchmepls, CSL, julienvonwolfe, xvart
Not sure how many scum here....
Cow si town, Miku is town, vezo is town, Richard is town, Lynchme is town, julien is town.
{Magna, Mcav, percy, Supersmash, Rifka, CSL, xvart}

[Drippereth]

Richard is confirmed town, I was the first person on Raivann's wagon, and Percy was the third (I suppose Percy's jump onto CMAR and back to Raivann could be a case of distancing from a buddy, briefly supporting an alternate lynch when it seemed viable, before deciding once and for all to cut ties--I'll reread the evolution of his opinions in context--but that would be kind of convoluted). You're better off making a case that we're on the other scumteam.

Doesn't have to do with order on wagon, usually when scum mentions names like that there's one buddy in them.
Richard's conf town, you're awesomely town, so we're leaning Percy.

[LimMePls]

I'm bored. And SSBF is scum. So I'm going to dismantle this Vezo case he makes piece by piece. Enjoy everyone.

My case against vezokpiraka

His play has been scummy ever since near the beginning of the game. Here, I put all the pieces together to help prove that he is indeed lynch-worthy.

First of all, I want all of you to know that vezokpiraka is an experienced player, at least according to what he said over in an ongoing game, so there is no reason for his overall poor play here.

He is not an experienced player. Even if he was, you saying this with no evidence before setting up your case is complete crap. Anyone with half a brain can look at his play and see he isn't experienced. You try to set the whole tone of your argument up with this ridiculous claim of his experience, instead of letting your case do the talking for you.

The raising dilemma

I'll do that but it's not bold so it doesn't count. raise that guy.

Apprently, he's supporting to raise Benmage, but from what I can recall, he never does it under any circumstances.

He says he wants to raise someone, but he doesn't. Sounds pretty VI to me. What sinister motive is there for this?

@everyone: I think that for the first day or in some cases if we don't want to raise a hand we can raise the one who will be lynched so nobody could die because of it.

This is a horrible idea. He wanted to raise someone who would be lynched, so no one would die because of it. If we had followed his suggestion, this would be a complete waste of time and would benefit no one. This is why raising Percy was such a great idea, he is currently the strongest player here.

First, he only came up with this idea after I incorrectly suggested that we were raising a hand every time the hand died. Others pointed out that it said we would NOT raise other hands upon the hands death, and that speculation went out the window.

That thing is not useful. So we have to pick a double voter? on day 1.
If we target scum we have a double voter scum.
If we raise town we have a double voter dead.
If we raise town scum may create WIFOM and make us lynch him.

All cases equal bad for town. I still suggest raising the one we are lynching

He argues that double voting isn't really useful at all. When placed in the right hand (As this is probably the case), it can be more beneficial to town than to scum. What if Percy has his vote on two scums already? Overall, his argument is definently not convincing.

Here he actually makes a good point. double voter scum is not good, and raising someone just paints a target on them for the scum. "Hey scum, we all think this guy right here is really town, and we trust what he has to say". Even if you disagree with his conclusion that we should not raise or raise whoever we lynch, his point is still valid.

I want to be raised as the new hand.
I am playing by role can't remember who is that called.
I am the next in line for the throne raise me.

I personally call this a selfish move by him. Now yes, everyone wanted to be the double voter (Myself as well, as I did raise myself for awhile), but I really didn't like this post at all. He doesn't explain why he should be raised at all, let alone a legitimate one.

Selfish? Really? He was claiming his role (which I disagree with, but I know from previous experience with Vezo that he thinks D1 claiming is good). And no, not everyone wanted to be the double voter. I for one didn't want to be the double voter. I never self-raised, and I never suggested that others should raise me. I am town and I didn't want the double voter.

I have no idea about the books.
I have no idea if I'm next in line but it seemed like I am a royal figure more or less.

I really don't see any purpose for this comment under any circumstances. I haven't read the books, but I don't use that as an excuse for not trying in this game. On top of that, I don't really care if vezokpiraka thinks he's a royal figure or not.

Gasp! He made a comment that "you don't see any purpose for". Obv scum folks, SSBF says so.

Promise made, but never delievered

I think Cmar is scum. Will post a case sometime soon

He never made a real case on CryMeARiver, despite voting him a few times. While I did think that CryMeARiver was scummy, he defindently didn't convince me into thnking that.

Perhaps he saw everyone else's points and figured there was no reason, since he has a language barrier, to try it himself? There was plenty of evidence against CMAR, what exactly did you want from Vezo? You wanted him to make the umpteenth "please explain your unvote CMAR" post? I'm sure that would have been really helpful.

Bandwagoning and unexplained suspicions.

These are some of his worst offense in the game by far. He has done this so often, it's not even funny. Usually, it is with minimal reasoning and gives us very little to work on. First major example:

unvote
Vote Richard

Your last post is ultra scummy.

This is obvious bandwagoning. He doesn't give any explanation why he found that post scummy. None, just said that his last post at the time was scummy. Continuing:

unvote
Seems a legit claim to me. I guess the one who gets the extra kill is town. Vengeance for a scum is pretty weird.

After putting almost no effort in pushing RichardGHP, he unvotes mainly because of his claim.

Well it was this post but I consider CMAR being scumier that this.
vote CryMeARiver

Now this is where it begins to get bad. All he basically said was that he considered CryMeARiver to be scummier then RichardGHP's post that cause him to vote him. He doesn't provide any explanation whatsoever on why CryMeARiver was scummy.

unvote
Vote mikujin
The amount of scuminess in your posts is overwhemling

Once again, he gave absolutely no reason why he found a person scummy. While it might been Mikujin's 2nd vote on him, it defindently sounds like he's trying to leech off MagnaofIllusion's reason for voting him.

I will /barn that. This is what I told you/ was going to tell you and forgot.

Unvote
Vote Richard

Less then three hours later, he changes his vote to RichardGHP. Gives absolutely no new reasons for voting him. The vote was completely worthless.

Kelraac made really bad responses. I don't care what you would say.
unvote
vote Keldraac

The Kleedrac bandwagon was relatively large at the time. Vezokpiraka votes for him. Unfortunently, all he said was that he made really bad responses. He doesn't say why they're bad or what responses Kleedrac made was bad.

Unvote
Vote CMAR

Same thing only CMAR wagon has more steam

This is blatant bandwagoning on a person. People should note that this is taken at the exact same time where he voted Raivann. Inconsistency much?

unvote
vote raviann

Everyone from CMAR wagon switch here. I don't want this day to end in a no lynch

vezokpiraka sounds extremely desperate for a lynch to happen here. Yes we didn't have much time for a lynch, but he could have at least given a good explanation for switching his vote to Raivann again.

I said fake claim cause I thought he was scum with CMAR. After what axel said I come to think I might be wrong.

Anyway. This is the only way to prove it.

unvote
Vote Richard

Basically, he said the only way to prove Richard's claim right was to lynch him. He is wrong in this circumstance. RichardGHP could have been Night Killed and that would have proved if his claim was right of if he was a lying scum bag. This claim is more likely true because of julienvonwolfe's death. I feel like he was trying to bandwagon RichardGHP again, hoping to kill him.

Richard wagon is not moving but this should end in a lynch
unvote
vote CMAR

His last vote of Day 1 is also horrible. He expressed dissatification of RichardGHP's wagon not moving to a lynch, so in order to ensure that, he basically makes an obvious bandwagon on CryMeARiver.

I'm gonna tackle the bandwagoning charge all at once, with one simple statement of fact. He bandwagons like crazy. I fail to see why that makes him scum. Also, you point to his unvote of Richard as somehow scummy, which is just laughable. Practically every player on that wagon unvoted. So you don't like his reasons for getting on the wagon, but you don't like him getting off the wagon either. Then you find it interesting that he votes people saying there stuff is scummy, but he doesn't say why. Yet earlier in the thread he is specifically asked if English is a second language, and he says yes. Isn't the obvious conclusion that he has a hard time explaining exactly what he sees as troublesome, and since everyone else is posting those thoughts anyways, he is just saying that he agrees and voting with them? This is my read of vezo from multiple games, one of which I know you've seen too. You trying to paint this as something lynch worthy is laughable.

Other things to note

I play like this.
I do scumhunting when I get a good read on someone. Right now richard seems the scummiest but I don't have a case on him yet

I don't like how he basically relies on meta fo his defense and doesn't really defend his action. He said that RichardGHP was the scummiest person at the time, yet he doesn't have a case on him A.K.A. suspicion without explanation.

He meant he didn't have a wall-o-case on him, just a gut read. He even says "When I get a good read on someone". Again, what is scummy about this? Many other people (who are much more eloquent because English is natural for them) comment on there gut reads all the time and you have no problem with it.

Obv fakeclaim.
You were voting to raise CMAR.
I don't want to lynch a vig now.
If CMAR flips scum raviann should be obv scum.

Someone asked who I believe scum.
I believe both of them are scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CMAR

This post is horrible. A few things I especially disliked about it.

Obv fakeclaim.

I don't want to lynch a vig now.

Major contradictions here. He said that it was an obvious fakeclaim, but on that exact same post, he said he didn't want to lynch a vigilante now.

There is no contradiction here, again it's the language barrier. If I had been writing this thought it would have been "I don't believe his claim. However, I don't want to risk lynching the vig. So, since I believe he and CMAR are scum buddies, we should lynch CMAR and if he flips scum we lynch Raivann". You may disagree with his idea, but it isn't a contradiction and it isn't a horrible post.

Someone asked who I believe scum.
I believe both of them are scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CMAR

He doesn't explain his vote on CryMeARiver at all. This isn't what I call a good response to a question, plus this is bandwagoning without giving good explanations.

He does to explain his vote on CMAR. He thinks they are both scum on the same scum team, but since he allows for the possibility he is wrong, he'd rather not risk lynching the claimed vig, and instead wants to lynch his buddy. He even says plainly in this post "I believe both of them are scum."

Overall:

Give me

one

good reason to keep him around. Just

one

. To me, this person has contributed next to nothing in this game. He has been scummy all over the place and he needs to die ToDay. Unless vezokpiraka improve his game Day 2, this stance will stay.

I've already given you the reasons in my previous post. You are scum, you are taking heat, and you went for the easiest target you could find. You didn't even execute your case well, because there is nothing lynch worthy here. His votes look like bandwagons because he agrees with other people's points. He doesn't type them out a second time because of the language barrier. His points on raising, while I disagree with them, where not scummy in the least. This entire post of yours screams desperation. "Look guys, don't lynch me, look how town I am. I found scum". There is only one problem, for that to be convincing you have to actually find scum, not an easy target VI.