A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[vezokpiraka]

You do realize that my first post with the throne was in RVS.

@percy : I am from Romania and we don't have A clash of Kings here. I couldn't find it at our libraries. I read Tara Duncan and there the main character and another one of the secondary-main characters are princesses. I read the first two books in the Castle Cant series.
I read many other books but this are all that I remember having Royalties in them.

[Axelrod]

It also occurred to me that vezo (as scum) might have been schooled by a scum-buddy last Night that his declaration of being "next in line for the throne" might possibly not have been a good thing to claim. But that also ought to mean they would have tried to come up with a plan to fix it and this is a pretty weak come back if that's the case.

I hate to use a "too stupid for scum" argument, but I might have to make an exception here. Because I do have a hard time seeing vezo just blurting something out like that as scum. It makes zero sense.

I don't know.

[MagnaofIllusion]

You do realize that my first post with the throne was in RVS.

Did you seriously just try to say that your comment about being next-in-line doesn't matter because it is in RVS?

My mind boggles.

RVS actions are just as valid as any other actions (especially when it's posting and not votes) when it comes to potential slips.

Despite your VI-style presentation this is the sort of argument I would expect the see from scum flailing.

[Thor665]

@Thor665

: Once everyone's said whether they stabbed CSL, I'll say why I'm curious to know.

Also, you say you want to hear more from "cleared townies". Who are you thinking of besides Richard?

Though what I said was spoken of in generalities it was in direct response to Richard - he's the only player I was referring to either time (the generalities were because I was making general statements - e.g. 'it is helpful to town when cleared townies are active' et al).

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 2.11: The

"Your grace...Rhaegar fought valiantly. Rhaegar fought nobly. Rhaegar fought honourably. And Rhaegar died."

votecount

.

Lynch Count

Danakillsu (10) -

Percy, Thor665, Mikujin, Axelrod, RichardGHP, xvart, LynchMePls, Vezokpiraka, Benmage, MagnaofIllusion

CSL (3) -

Percy, Mina, Super Smash Bros. Fan

Super Smash Bros. Fan (5) -

hasdgfas, I Doubt it, Rifka Viveka, diddin

MacavityLock (1) -

Locke Lamora

LynchMePls (1) -

Unsight

Vezipiraka (3) -

Danakillsu, Drippereth, MacavityLock

With 22 alive it takes 12 votes to lynch.
The deadline for today's lynch is

10:00pm (CDT) on Sunday the 18th of July

. You can view a countdown to the deadline

here

Still searching for Dana replacement.

Also I (Faraday) am back now.

[Mikujin]

@Mikujin

: Was

this

a roundabout way of claiming that you stabbed CSL?
(The open-ended nature of this post makes me )

Indeed that was the implication. I have, however, realized the error in saying "Just count non-CSL stab votes!" as the stab could be decided by plurality and not majority. It might be just as well; I don't want to let myself get caught trusting people who just claim to have acted one way or another with no proof to support their actions.

I'm at least a little intrigued with the way votes are falling on Vezo right now. While I am uncertain of Vezo's alignment, it is certainly worthy to note that several of the players who have been rather suspicious today (SSBF, dana, CSL) have been rather quiet since the "cases" on Vezo have been developed. SSBF's only real post is a very poorly drawn out "Gotcha!" directed at Drip. Of those in today's limelight, only Drip has remained active during this time (if you can call a series of one-liners and play-by-play commentary activity).

On that note, I think it's of merit to direct attention to

who

is voting for Vezo: Dana and Drip. Again, seems like they're just trying to take advantage of Vezo's recent "popularity" rather than develop some worthwhile ideas. They're both latching onto him based around his vote-hopping near lynch-time on D1, despite that a quick glance over Vezo's posting history shows him changing his vote quite frequently with little to no reasoning. While I'm not saying he can't be scum, I'm much more inclined to believe he's a VI.

Everyone should look at #1207 and #1208. He said he wants to lynch danakillsu, but then votes for vezokpiraka. This is a fine example of inconsistency.

He says we should lynch Diddin, because he jumped into the game pointing fingers at Dana and yourself, with no real independent conclusions. The fact Drip votes for Vezo next after proclaiming "Scum!" is hardly inconsistent with its play thus far. You're overeager to get attention off of yourself, and deflect it towards Drip.

[MagnaofIllusion]

@MagnaofIllusion

: You say Benmage is playing out of character. What kind of character does he usually have? Links?

Take a look at the following game KOL Mafia. It is a large theme game like this one. Benmage was Town. Read his ISO. There is much more depth to his comments and observations in that game than in this one. Especially in Day 2 here.

Also take note of his professed feelings about lurking and Mafia correlation in KOL Mafia. Compare it with his play here Day 2, especially his comments regarding "how long can I get away with active lurking".

[RichardGHP]

I was scum in that game, if anyone is looking for a good laugh.

[Benmage]

@MagnaofIllusion

: You say Benmage is playing out of character. What kind of character does he usually have? Links?

Take a look at the following game KOL Mafia. It is a large theme game like this one. Benmage was Town. Read his ISO. There is much more depth to his comments and observations in that game than in this one. Especially in Day 2 here.

Also take note of his professed feelings about lurking and Mafia correlation in KOL Mafia. Compare it with his play here Day 2, especially his comments regarding "how long can I get away with active lurking".

Uhhh no 2 games will ever be identical. Go look at some more games of mine.

And there was irony in that statement because if someone else had done what I was doing, I'd of been all over them. (Potentially)

[Mina]

Hi, this is 50% a lame "I'm still alive, and sorry for flaking!" post. Since I fell asleep last night in the middle of a more substantial post, I figured I should remind people I'm still alive in case I have to stop before I get all my thoughts out. I'll be honest. I'm interested in where this game is heading, and I've never replaced out before (and don't plan to start), but I'm having severe trouble trying to stay active in all my games. I don't know if it's because I lack time, I'm slow and bad at multi-tasking, or I'm just not motivated. It's just that writing posts at the level of analysis I'm comfortable with has felt like pulling teeth lately. Which means...

@Mina re: 1115

– Did you read any other games with Raivann in your meta research? Also, since we had an unexpected break I’m hopeful you had sufficient chance to do you full-length research.

Um...yeah. See, um, I totally wrote a huge master post of analysis that turned the game around, but...my dog ate it.

I spent the break trying to catch up with the other games I've neglected. But let's see if I can draw some conclusions from Day One before the deadline. See, my problem is that I've seen people off-site break the game by logically eliminating scumbuddies to a few combinations, but whenever I try it myself, I always either make wrong assumptions or run around in circles of WIFOM. I suck at everything in Mafia except for not getting lynched.

Revenge of the Crimson King was the only Raivann-scum game I read. (I didn't realize there was more Raivann-scum meta.)

I have a big response to Percy coming up. (It might be this afternoon or evening, though, since I was supposed to do work for my dad today.) But quick comments first:

-I was another CSL-stabber, for obvious reasons. Stabbing actually harms the town more than scum, since it only takes away their PR (not their QT or NK), so everyone who didn't stab the scummy claimed vanilla deserves a smack.

Sorry, I may have completely lost track of this in my absence, but what is this referring to? I don't remember asking you anything about VIs. To answer your question though, dana seems like much more of a VI than SSBF does, at least in this game. I have limited experience with both: less than 1 game day with dana (he replaced into a game in which I was NK'ed N1), none with SSBF.

Sorry, MacavityLock. I mixed you up with xvart (who asked me that question). Okay, then.

xvart

, do you disagree that danakillsu and SSBF are VIs?

-That said, I suppose calling dana and SSBF "VIs" is a bit unfair considering the competition...

What the fuck do you do with players so stupid that their behaviour makes no sense for either alignment? If CSL is town, then I deeply regret ever mentioning this game to him after that spiteful and moronic VT claim and "you only think I'm scum because YOU'RE VOTING FOR ME." I'll admit that vezo seems so easy and stupid that lynching him feels like a waste. But this argument is a good one:

Is it just me, or is vezo at this point obv-Joffery from a Lannister-type scum group or Stannis from a Melisandre-type scum group? Claims "next in line to throne", then retracts the following day with a character so far from next in line, it's laughable. As much as I was reading vezo as super VI, this whole claim-and-retract business makes me think that a scum buddy slapped him down overnight and he got stuck with a crappy fake claim. Unvote. Vote: vezo.

Since our vig is probably dead, I'd be okay with a vezo lynch. I honestly just feel like it's a waste of information.

-I know that Percy asked Magna about Benmage's meta (EBWOPreview: I see that Magna cross-posted me...which tells you all something about my writing speed; my impression of BM was quite different from his), but I'll answer, since I agree with Magna.

I've seen Benmage play town, in WoT Mafia and another game (I think one of the Freaktowns). There, he was super-aggressive, abrasive, controversial, made a lot of crappy arguments and weak attacks on obvtown, and was a major lynch target. But he was totally unconcerned with what other people though of him. I see a difference here. He keeps stalling for time, ingratiating himself to people who aren't I doubt it, playing nice and going with the flow, blatantly bandwagoning, etc. He never even reacted emotionally to my attack on him on Day One. I think that if he were town, he'd get a lot more heated in response. Dude, I called him a PASSIVE-AGGRESSIVE BULLY.

Admittedly, that was over a year ago, so he might have improved his town game. (EBWOPreview: And I'm just skimming through BM's Iso in KoL, and he doesn't seem more abrasive than he is here.) But leaving aside meta, there's his contradiction on CMAR. After I pushed him for leaving his vote on CMAR so long, Benmage says that he suspects him, but then Benmage votes Raivann for totally no reason and uses the "we need to get a lynch" excuse. And his play today has been very sheepy and passive. He also committed one of my favourite scumtells: positively salivating at the mouth to get a claim out of dana. He was slightly better at the beginning of D1, but still seemed a lot more interested in defence than offence.

I'm no longer confident in the Rifka-Benmage connection (I'm pretty null on Rifka at the moment, and she seemed kind of bewildered by my links case). But I'm starting to think that Benmage is scum.

I'll save my thoughts on dana and SSBF for another post for readability. To be honest, I'm kind of conflicted on them.

[hasdgfas]

You do realize that my first post with the throne was in RVS.

You know, I was thinking before that you were just playing a bit differently due to English not being your first language, but this is one of the most awful defenses I've ever seen. If not for the fact that SSBF is so incredibly scummy, I'd probably switch my vote at this point.

[diddin]

I see a sort of contradiction in vezo's reasoning. First, she says she never saw her role name and came to the conclusion she was a princess, later she says that her crumb was in RVS so it doesn't count. I don't see how those fit together completely.

I'd still rather lynch SSBF or Dana though.

Count me in in the crowd that was in KoL Mafia. Me and Richard were scumbuddies and I played pretty well until I got quicklynched while V/LA:|.

[vezokpiraka]

I am a HE. I told you before Diddin. You're making ME MAD or not.

The part wuth the RVS was just there to calm you people down. I don't take seriously anythign that happens in RVS.

[Rifka Viveka]

But vezo, a simple ISO of you shows that you were already playing outside the RVS with your first post and onwards.

[Unsight]

@Unsight

:

If I had a read on vezo one way or the other, I'd have given it.

Out of curiosity, why the soft sell on him, then?

You

go out of your way to bring him up,

describe him as being "very anti-town" while apparently

not

finding him scummy

, and then mention that there are lots of people who need to be lynched first without mentioning any of them. If there are people who need rope prior to vezo why mention him by name and not them?

Anti-town and scummy are not synonymous.

I am well aware of this, please refer to my post where I bolded and underlined the relevant statements. I agree that anti-town and scummy are two different things and made it clear in my commentary that I understood this and accurately represented what it was you said.

I'm quoting this because I'd really like you to answer the original question. Whilst anti-town and scum are not the same thing, they

are

correlated; at the moment, the tactical interpretation of this read is the only one that is clear to me.

Copy/Paste.

"you didn't actually answer the question I posed to you"

Maybe I'm not sure what kind of answer you want. I'm in two games with vezo. In both games he's unhelpful, wagons shamelessly, gives no reasons for voting, and basically contributes nothing to the discussion... and I believe that's his town playstyle. If I didn't have a laundry list of people I'm fairly certain are scum then I would be pressing him harder and, as it stands, I'm still waiting for an answer to the question I asked him in this post.

[xvart]

Is it just me, or is vezo at this point obv-Joffery from a Lannister-type scum group or Stannis from a Melisandre-type scum group? Claims "next in line to throne", then retracts the following day with a character so far from next in line, it's laughable. As much as I was reading vezo as super VI, this whole claim-and-retract business makes me think that a scum buddy slapped him down overnight and he got stuck with a crappy fake claim.

Unvote. Vote: vezo.

I'm starting to think the same thing. I'm wondering if Vezok might have confused his original role with a fake claim. Actually an heir like ML mentioned but had the fake claim of Meena. And the claim premature claim. Something is not right here. Correct me if I am wrong, flavor wise, but in the Seven Kingdoms daughters aren't heirs to the throne, right?

You do realize that my first post with the throne was in RVS.

As mentioned, you were obviously out of the RVS stage when you claimed heir to the throne. So saying nothing matters in RVS is irrelevant regardless if the statement about RVS is true or not.

I was scum in that game, if anyone is looking for a good laugh.

Nice contribution. You actually want to help out?

Okay, then.

xvart

, do you disagree that danakillsu and SSBF are VIs?

-That said, I suppose calling dana and SSBF "VIs" is a bit unfair considering the competition...

I do (disagree). I find VI's generally across the board frustrating but I do not find SSBF or dana frustrating to that extent. Up until recently, Vezok has been frustrating (and he still is, but now I'm sensing some scumminess underneath that).

xvart.

[Percy]

Your metaphors are broken. Here's how to fix it: "You must read some fantasy series right now. If you aren't reading either Song of Ice and Fire or Wheel of Time, you must explain why not." In this situation, how is encouraging focus on two not the same as discouraging focus everywhere else?

If someone said that to me, I'd be able to respond in a number of different ways:
(1) I've read it, and loved it!
(2) I've read it, and I wasn't too impressed with it.
(3) I haven't read it, but that's because I'm reading

Awesome Different Series!

(4) I'm reading it now, it's great/terrible/whatever, but I'm also reading

Awesome Different Series!

at the same time.
His statement called for the cases to receive attention, not for others to be invalidated. The attack feels, as I said earlier, contrived.

You do realize that my first post with the throne was in RVS.

Are you talking about this post on page 7? When there was a wagon on Richard that had reached seven votes? Seriously?

Liking this post by Mikujin, especially the exploration of SSBF/Drip/dana connections.
Still need to re-read SSBF in full. At the moment, gut is telling me that SSBF's interactions with danakillsu and Drippereth are scummy. Here's a post from more than two weeks ago:

Right now, I think danakilllsu is possible, but I haven't searched for connections yet. After my case on vezokpiraka, I will get working on that.

... and especially considering the big deal he made out of exploring the connections, the fact that he hasn't looked into this is looking pretty damning right now. All he's said on the case has been:

Obviously, you were pushing Kleedrac harder then Raivann Day 1. There are numerous evidence supporting that you are scums and I believe the case. You said that having Town-Kleedrac/Budja is worse then Town-Raivann. Guess who flipped town and who flipped scum?

What "numerous" evidence is there, and when did you start to believe the case? The last two sentences are also .

Uhhh no 2 games will ever be identical. Go look at some more games of mine.

And there was irony in that statement because if someone else had done what I was doing, I'd of been all over them. (Potentially)

So have you lurked like this in other games as town, or not?
Also, when you say "what I was doing", do you mean "what I am doing"?
Why have you chosen to adopt this playstyle for this game?
I'm not liking Benmage at all. Put together with his violent outburst (link to full, archived version) against I doubt it on D1 and I'm leaning scum.

I suck at everything in Mafia except for not getting lynched.

Whoa, inaccurate AtE out of fucking nowhere.

What the fuck do you do with players so stupid that their behaviour makes no sense for either alignment?

You look for a scummy method in the madness, as I have done with CSL. Still waiting on why you're so keen to dismiss the case against dana, who is in my estimation not VI.

@Unsight

: Thanks, missed the response.

[RichardGHP]

xvart, I've already said that I have nothing more to say until dana is lynched.

[xvart]

Liking this post by Mikujin, especially the exploration of SSBF/Drip/dana connections.
Still need to re-read SSBF in full. At the moment, gut is telling me that SSBF's interactions with danakillsu and Drippereth are scummy. Here's a post from more than two weeks ago:

Right now, I think danakilllsu is possible, but I haven't searched for connections yet. After my case on vezokpiraka, I will get working on that.

... and especially considering the big deal he made out of exploring the connections, the fact that he hasn't looked into this is looking pretty damning right now. All he's said on the case has been:

Obviously, you were pushing Kleedrac harder then Raivann Day 1. There are numerous evidence supporting that you are scums and I believe the case. You said that having Town-Kleedrac/Budja is worse then Town-Raivann. Guess who flipped town and who flipped scum?

What "numerous" evidence is there, and when did you start to believe the case? The last two sentences are also .

I had forgotten about that. Let's hear it SSBF.

xvart, I've already said that I have nothing more to say until dana is lynched.

Do you think that dana is the only scum member left in this game?

xvart.

[RichardGHP]

Nope, but there's no use in going after two or more people at the same time when there is a clear wagon in the lead and only one lynch to be had per day.

[xvart]

Nope, but there's no use in going after two or more people at the same time when there is a clear wagon in the lead and only one lynch to be had per day.

Yes, we can't force reactions or get people to weigh in on other things because that would make the scumhunting to easy in future days, right?

xvart.

[Benmage]

1)So have you lurked like this in other games as town, or not?
2)Also, when you say "what I was doing", do you mean "what I am doing"?
3)Why have you chosen to adopt this playstyle for this game?
4)I'm not liking Benmage at all. Put together with his violent outburst (link to full, archived version) against I doubt it on D1 and I'm leaning scum.

1) I don't think so. Nor would I agree I lurked in this one.
2) huh?, grab context.
3) What play style?
4) The feelings mutual, I never voted you to be hand.

[Benmage]

Oh I see #2...yeah sure, there are things I wanted to go back and revist since CSL stabbed and read and comment on. Lets bring this up tomorrow, I'm not gonna make any headway tonight.

Too many things on my plate atm.

[LimMePls]

Can we draw any conclusions from the fact that dana has been L-2 for so long? Seems like it might mean he is more likely to be scum and his partners aren't bussing? Is this bad logic? Seems like opportunistic scum would find a reason to jump on board. Could all the scum already be on the wagon? Seems highly unlikely.

In other news Dripp is really weirding me out. And Unisght has avoided my question so many times I'm not going to bother asking anymore.

[Thor665]

@LynchMePls - there are a couple possibilities for the lack of the wagon reaching takeoff, and they do not all end in dana being scum.

I'll elevate Drip into my scum listings from my anti-town listings. I'd had issues earlier but with the attack on me was debating if I was just feeling some OMGUS energy and turning it into scum energy in my own head. If others are feeling it then I agree, I'd still put the holy trinity of dana, CSL, and SSBF ahead of Drip and in that order. Drip is ahead of Macavity Lock and I am unclear of the relation with Benmage on my list, so I'll blob them together and call them equally scummy to me.