A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Benmage]

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

[Benmage]

I don't really see how I have to be his scumbuddy just because I didn't say much about him, and then said he was scummy. That just happens all the time.

This almost looks like the ''you caught me for the wrong reasons rant'' tell.

Ill put down a

vote:SSBF

as per earlier reasons

Per earlier reasons…hmm isoing you I see little talk about SSBF save his defense of me. Is that your sole scum suspicion and reasoning for voting him? If there’s more can you please requote it or refer to your iso numbers or simply restate it.

Later you call it more gut:

@thor. there are logical cases against both SSBF and dana, but i have a scum gut read on SSBF, so he gets the nod.

Does this mean you’d be for and would eventually vote dana if need be?


I doubt it is atleast showing some consistent pursuit in his dislike for SSBF. A few things I’m concerned with:

Alright, finally got time to look at the case on dana.*************case************** I still think SSBF is scummier than dana but he's not looking like a bad lynch either.

In other news, SSBF is still scum and dana looks like Raivann's scumbuddy.

Has

anyone

read my case on CSL? Anyone at all? It's not just a lurker lynch. It's a lot like the case on danakillsu, except my wagon has butterflies and rainbows!

I forgot about it as it was late in the day 1, but I've looked into it now. Unless I'm missing something, the crux is his inconsistencies in who is scummier, Raivann or CMAR, yes? It doesn't seem to be as damning as the case on dana.

Lynch preference: SSBF > vezopiraka > CSL

Soo my point is….what happened to dana? Why did he fall off your lynch list. Are you no longer willing to lynch him?

Unfortunately it Friday and I’m going out now to eat dinner with buddies and then goin out, so no more content for tonight…and who knows about the rest of the weekend.

I implore those not on the dana wagon to ask themselves whynot, and if their wagon is any better… if so they need to f’ing get the fire goin.

Also for lack of time, I cannot analyze diddin's breakdown and vote of SSBF sorry.

[Unsight]

If you want dana lynched, and he's the leading wagon...why the hell aren't ya voting him?

That post was made 8 days before the deadline and would have put dana at L-1 (IIRC). I have no interest in seeing the day cut short when there's plenty to talk about.

It’s now 2 days til deadline. Is your suggestion that you support a dana lynch just fence-sitting since your vote is not on him?

I don't think that word means what you think it means.

That is, you're using the phrase "fence-sitting" incorrectly. Fence-sitting is when you have two positions on a subject and someone chooses to take neither of them. Since you are on neither side of the fence, you are effectively sitting on the fence.

This doesn't apply to my position of Dana as I have said a couple times now that I support a Dana lynch. I have clearly taken a position. What I have not done is rush the day. I could have voted Dana a week ago and put him at L-1. Doing so brings the day one vote closer to its end and doesn't help me scum hunt. Conversely, I can vote and pressure other suspects, extend the day to continue scumhunting, and still vote dana at a later time which is win/win/win for the town.

Now, your saying that "just fence-sitting since your vote is not on him" is spectacularly stupid logic. By that logic, everyone with a suspect they're not voting for is fence-sitting. You attempted a similarly poor argument regarding my suspicion on Drip where you attempted to say my not voting him meant I was distancing him which I swiftly responded to and now you're doing it again.

Did you not learn anything from that response? Let me spell it out for you: You can pressure people with your vote, you can pressure people without a vote, and you can even be suspicious of people other than the single person you are voting for.


Now, the deadline is in 2 days and I usually go V/LA over the weekend which means I may not be here for it. I'm happy with a Dana lynch and I'll put my vote next to it.

VOTE: danakillsu

[hasdgfas]

ISO him and tell me you can't see it and I can give you more.

The time is near, you'd think if you thought him scum you could be more convincing. Why must I iso him if the information is readily available in your mind. I could walk away from the computer going meh and you'd be no closer to lynching someone you believe to be scum with a rapidly approaching deadline. This is some obstinate behavior I dislike. Do you even think SSBF is scummy?

What happened to this energy:

SSBF is just so incredibly scummy right now it's insane.

I suppose I could iso him, but I think I'm gonna analyze this SSBF wagon first to see if the voters hold the key or if the wagon has merit... for I am trying to campaign voters onto dana.

I've had a rough Day 2. I had to deal with taking control of a game where the mod flaked, and the dana wagon just doesn't do much for me, so I haven't had much to say. My activity tends to fluctuate in games anyway

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

didn't say I am, I just think SSBF is scummier. Honestly, I'm iffy on dana's claim, as I said before, but I think SSBF is a higher priority, and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise.

[LimMePls]

It's just been a general uneasiness since the start of the game

The start... I thought I started strong.

I disagree.

just small things adding up. You had some exchanges with Rifka and Mina that I thought you came off the worse in

Can you be a bit more specific than just small things, please. Also what aspects of my exchange with Rifka did you like about Rifka and dislike about me.

If I have the time I'd be happy to. I'm not doing that now. I just have in my notes that you were arguing and I sided more with Mina/Rifka. I'd have to go back and re-read the exchange.

you admit to lurking

In jest, do you believe I am guilty of the crime?

When you said it you were just coming back from a bit of lurking, yes. You have since improved, but it doesn't change the fact that for awhile you were lurking, and you even admitted to it. That is my recollection of events.

you don't stab CSL but you refuse to answer the question of who you did stab.

In what ways do you think there is an anti-town motive in not stating who I stabbed? Surely as scum to avoid unnecessary confrontation I could’ve named anyone or even simply CSL. What anti-town reasoning do I have to hide it? Or do you think I have to hide it?

I think holding information back from the town is scummy. I also happen to know that you agree with that view. I see no reason why you shouldn't share this information. You said you didn't stab CSL. The natural follow-up question is "who did you stab", and rather than provide that information, you refuse. Presumably the players we stabbed are people we have scum reads on. So you are essentially refusing to state who you saw scummy enough to stab. Your refusal to answer seems scummy to me. As for the fact that you could lie about it, that is true, but if you have "nothing to hide" as you claim, why be so "obstinate" (see I can use that word too). The only reason I can see for refusing to answer the question is so that you don't get locked into a scum read on someone.

[LimMePls]

Your exchange with Cow is reinforcing my scum read Benmage. You really don't think SSBF is scummy?

[Thor665]

Right the interplay with Percy and asking him about my playstyle...Does his question even make sense.."adopt playstyle"...Who willfully thinks of adopting playstyles per game...I just play the game and various thinks affect it. RL and others actions specifically. What playstyle you using thor? What playstyle is anyone using...dumb question if you ask me. Dumb questions get dumb answers...the clarification was giving Percy the benefit of the doubt to clarify, which doesn't seem apparent.

I've known a couple of players (Fate and RayFrost come immediately to mind as probably the most well known) who have and do adopt different playstyles for different games. I do not drastically switch playstyles but I am aware that my current playstyle is quite different from my playstyle a few months ago and can discuss that shift intelligently (I'm waaaaay more gut now and faaaar less 'logic case is only case' then when I first started playing)

So, from my perspective - yes, it is odd that you seemed to find the question so bizarre. I'll consider your current tack on answering it though.

Do I still maintian my 4thclass 3rd lynch class rank?

You're certainly still 3rd lynch, since CSL isn't a lynch in my mind today and I think Drip is a better Vig target than lynch and have said as much. I still find you scummier then Macavity since I can at least verbalize some issues with you and haven't been able to do so with him yet (he just feels scummy, so the case there is pure gut at the moment). I'll admit to liking this current trend of activity (even if it is a bit hyper spam in the current situation) and will admit some of the obtuseness has been explained away (though I was reminded of the vezo angle). Probably on a pure scum list you're back to being tied with Drip at the moment in my mind. You're more scummy then Macavity and less so then dana, CSL, and SSBF.

[Eddard Stark]

Vote count 2.13: The

"A man will not sleep until a girl unsays a certain name."

votecount

.

Lynch Count

Danakillsu (11) -

Percy, Thor665, Mikujin, Axelrod, RichardGHP, xvart, LynchMePls, Vezokpiraka, Benmage, MagnaofIllusion, Unsight

CSL (3) -

Percy, Mina, Super Smash Bros. Fan

Super Smash Bros. Fan (4) -

hasdgfas, I Doubt it, Rifka Viveka, diddin

MacavityLock (1) -

Locke Lamora

Vezipiraka (3) -

Danakillsu, Drippereth, MacavityLock

With 22 alive it takes 12 votes to lynch.
The deadline for today's lynch is

10:00pm (CDT) on Sunday the 18th of July

. You can view a countdown to the deadline

here

Still searching for Dana replacement. There's 49 hours til deadline

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

What "numerous" evidence is there, and when did you start to believe the case?

As others have said, despite him saying that he thought Raivann was scummier then Kleedrac/Budja, he goes to defend Raivann a lot (One major point being saying Raivann-town is better then Kleedrac-town with very poor arguments to back it up). Then out of nowhere in ISO: 47, he goes and votes for Raivann, saying that there was almost no one support the wagon anymore. He quickly without any explanation changed his vote to Budja again at ISO: 48. Inconsistency much?

As for your second question, I started to suspect danakillsu early in Day 1. My focus on him wasn't much, but he light my radar Day 2 after the connection between him and Raivann was brought up.

Weakass vote.

Mind explaining why my vote on CSL on ISO: 71 is a weak vote? Especially since you only quoted part of my post.

[RichardGHP]

Percy, unless you are a discussion-whore, you might as well hammer dana with your other vote.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

Forgot to mention this in my last post. I was /prodded.

@RichardGHP: We're close to the deadline, but not that close where his vote decides whenever or not we get a lynch or not. We have some time left to find scums.

[hasdgfas]

Forgot to mention this in my last post. I was /prodded.

we know. why are you pointing this out?

[LimMePls]

Forgot to mention this in my last post. I was /prodded.

@RichardGHP: We're close to the deadline, but not that close where his vote decides whenever or not we get a lynch or not. We have some time left to find scums.

You're next SSBF. So start packing your bags.

[I doubt it]

I am very uneasy with this line of thinking for two reasons.

1. You are relying on Scum (regardless of whatever hypothetical faction) to do Town’s job in getting rid of a player that a good number of the playerbase find scummy. That strikes me as not the best way to handle things for Town.
2. Dana survives the Night. Now what? Are we going to end up repeating the arguments and voting of today with a heaping topping of WIFOM to boot?

If either of you don’t find dana scummy that’s fine. Commit to that position. This tactic borders on a position that embodies fence-sitting.

Because of 1), I suppose you are right that dana probably wouldn't be the most likely pick to NK. With 2) at least we may be able to confirm dana's ability. Wouldn't tell us his alignment but it would be more information to go on his lynch. Maybe the whole idea was a bit optimistic, but it doesn't seem to be happening anyway. Deadline is too close and people are unwilling to leave the dana wagon.

How am I fence-sitting though? I think I've been pretty clear that I think dana's interactions with Raivann were scummy, but I also think SSBF is even scummier.

Soo my point is….what happened to dana? Why did he fall off your lynch list. Are you no longer willing to lynch him?

He claimed, and I think it's plausible that his claim is true. Obviously dana lynch > no lynch, I left him out of my lynch list because I didn't want to lynch dana today.

[Axelrod]

Not looking like there's time for anyone other than Dana at this point. I have failed to review to see if I can get a stronger read on anyone, and as Dana has requested replacement anyway, I think that's probably it.

I don't like Benmage much though, he's been posting a lot recently and what I mainly don't like throughout this flurry of posting, is that there still seems like relatively little scum-hunting going on in all that. He's mostly defending himself and/or criticizing the cases of others. He's being snarky and self-depricating (like, he wouldn't play as bad as this if he was scum?). I saw him give a list in one post of who he thinks is scummy without saying anything more about any of them. His big stand is that he's against a CSL lynch, and the reason for that is..."gut."

That's my big .02 before the end of this day probably. Maybe I'll get something else in if no one hammers before tomorrow.

[Benmage]

just small things adding up. You had some exchanges with Rifka and Mina that I thought you came off the worse in

Can you be a bit more specific than just small things, please. Also what aspects of my exchange with Rifka did you like about Rifka and dislike about me.

If I have the time I'd be happy to. I'm not doing that now. I just have in my notes that you were arguing and I sided more with Mina/Rifka. I'd have to go back and re-read the exchange.

Whenever you get the time will be fine.

When you said it you were just coming back from

a bit of lurking

, yes. You have since improved, but it doesn't change the fact that for

awhile you were lurking

, and you even admitted to it. That is my recollection of events.

Was I guilty of a bit of lurking, or did I lurk for awhile?

Is there anyone else guilty in this game of lurking?

you don't stab CSL but you refuse to answer the question of who you did stab.

In what ways do you think there is an anti-town motive in not stating who I stabbed? Surely as scum to avoid unnecessary confrontation I could’ve named anyone or even simply CSL. What anti-town reasoning do I have to hide it? Or do you think I have to hide it?

I think holding information back from the town is scummy. I also happen to know that you agree with that view. I see no reason why you shouldn't share this information. You said you didn't stab CSL. The natural follow-up question is "who did you stab", and rather than provide that information, you refuse. Presumably the players we stabbed are people we have scum reads on. So you are essentially refusing to state who you saw scummy enough to stab. Your refusal to answer seems scummy to me. As for the fact that you could lie about it, that is true, but if you have "nothing to hide" as you claim, why be so "obstinate" (see I can use that word too).

The only reason I can see for refusing to answer the question is so that you don't get locked into a scum read on someone.

The last line is all we need to concern ourselves with. This is true. I thought I said something along these lines or hinted at it, if not mybad. It's someone I feel is scummy, potentially not as flagrant or as believed by others to be scummy but a work in progress for me. I don't feel like showing my hand without first stacking the deck.

Since we can now agree that the reason is to hide a potential scum read of mine. How scummy of a move by me to withhold this do you think it is?

Your exchange with Cow is reinforcing my scum read Benmage.

In what ways! lol...do explain please. Asking someone to state their reasoning for voting someone....yeah shame on me! (sarcasm)...HMMMM asking someone to campaign for someone they believe to be scum...Blasphemy! Straight to the gallows for me!!!

I think you might be due for an iso LMP.

You really don't think SSBF is scummy?

Off top of my head I forget. I seem to recall things that made me go 'hmmmm'...but I also remember things others thought as scummy, or very scummy that I didn't find scummy. I'm pretty sure I said something along the lines of I'd had to analyze him further prior to any lynching.

Right the interplay with Percy and asking him about my playstyle...Does his question even make sense.."adopt playstyle"...Who willfully thinks of adopting playstyles per game...I just play the game and various thinks affect it. RL and others actions specifically. What playstyle you using thor? What playstyle is anyone using...dumb question if you ask me. Dumb questions get dumb answers...the clarification was giving Percy the benefit of the doubt to clarify, which doesn't seem apparent.

I've known a couple of players (Fate and RayFrost come immediately to mind as probably the most well known) who have and do adopt different playstyles for different games. I do not drastically switch playstyles but I am aware that my current playstyle is quite different from my playstyle a few months ago and can discuss that shift intelligently (I'm waaaaay more gut now and faaaar less 'logic case is only case' then when I first started playing)

So, from my perspective - yes, it is odd that you seemed to find the question so bizarre. I'll consider your current tack on answering it though.

Yeah you didn't one day wake up and go "oh heyyyyyy new playstyle".....it just evolves and various a bit from game to game. Thats my point. And using to bums like Fate and Ray to make a point strong....is......

Probably on a pure scum list you're back to being tied with Drip at the moment in my mind. You're more scummy then Macavity and less so then dana, CSL, and SSBF.

Thats fine. And the reasons for my scummieness was my obtuseness, and vezo piggybacking. Potential a period of "lurky-ness" (I forget if you mention that as a strike against me)
Alas I want to conclude (and maybe in a redundant way, forgive me) that my game in its entirety from a perspective of you is scummier than all these current players:

Xvart
Mina
LynchMePls
MacavityLock
Unsight
Axelrod
Percy
Vezopiraka

animorpherv1

Locke Lamora
Mikujin
I doubt it

Migwelloni Kinetic

diddin
Rifka Viveka
RichardGHP

DrModem

hasdgfas
MagnaOfIllusion

[Benmage]

even if it is a bit hyper spam

Hi, I’m Benmage, nice to meet you.

[Benmage]

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

didn't say I am, I just think SSBF is scummier. Honestly, I'm iffy on dana's claim, as I said before, but I think SSBF is a higher priority,

and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise

.

So you don't like Percy's case?

[Benmage]

I don't like Benmage much though, he's been posting a lot recently and what I mainly don't like throughout this flurry of posting, is that there still seems like relatively little scum-hunting going on in all that.

You gonna fault me for a few catch-up posts. Scum hunting...its been done, now I'm campaigning to get the scum lynched. Thats bad?

He's mostly defending himself and/or criticizing the cases of others.

I'm attacking others votes/cases. That sounds like a fantastic way to scum-hunt if you ask me.

He's being snarky and self-depricating (like, he wouldn't play as bad as this if he was scum?).

Would you agree that I have some level of competence in these games? (Or mafia as a whole)

I saw him give a list in one post of who he thinks is scummy without saying anything more about any of them.

OHHH nO He DiDnT. Is this a bad thing Axel?

His big stand is that he's against a CSL lynch, and the reason for that is..."gut."

Really...thats all I've contributed...dang.

[Benmage]

Weakass vote.

Mind explaining why my vote on CSL on ISO: 71 is a weak vote?

Especially since you only quoted part of my post.

Was there a strong aspect of your statements that I missed? If so please requote it for me, because I did not see it, and when you state the part I just underlined I get the impression that you get the impression or are hinting at that I had some ulterior motive in hiding this full information.

I'll be happy to answer the weakass part once I know if I did or didn't miss anything important.

[hasdgfas]

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

didn't say I am, I just think SSBF is scummier. Honestly, I'm iffy on dana's claim, as I said before, but I think SSBF is a higher priority,

and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise

.

So you don't like Percy's case?

what a great strawman. I said SSBF is a higher priority,

not

that dana isn't scummy.

[Benmage]

Cow why you against a dana lynch?

didn't say I am, I just think SSBF is scummier. Honestly, I'm iffy on dana's claim, as I said before, but I think SSBF is a higher priority,

and haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise

.

So you don't like Percy's case?

what a great strawman. I said SSBF is a higher priority,

not

that dana isn't scummy.

Mmm my mistake. So why do you think dana is scummy(Percy reasoning?), and why not as a high a priority as SSBF?

[LimMePls]

you don't stab CSL but you refuse to answer the question of who you did stab.

In what ways do you think there is an anti-town motive in not stating who I stabbed? Surely as scum to avoid unnecessary confrontation I could’ve named anyone or even simply CSL. What anti-town reasoning do I have to hide it? Or do you think I have to hide it?

I think holding information back from the town is scummy. I also happen to know that you agree with that view. I see no reason why you shouldn't share this information. You said you didn't stab CSL. The natural follow-up question is "who did you stab", and rather than provide that information, you refuse. Presumably the players we stabbed are people we have scum reads on. So you are essentially refusing to state who you saw scummy enough to stab. Your refusal to answer seems scummy to me. As for the fact that you could lie about it, that is true, but if you have "nothing to hide" as you claim, why be so "obstinate" (see I can use that word too).

The only reason I can see for refusing to answer the question is so that you don't get locked into a scum read on someone.

The last line is all we need to concern ourselves with. This is true. I thought I said something along these lines or hinted at it, if not mybad. It's someone I feel is scummy, potentially not as flagrant or as believed by others to be scummy but a work in progress for me. I don't feel like showing my hand without first stacking the deck.

Since we can now agree that the reason is to hide a potential scum read of mine. How scummy of a move by me to withhold this do you think it is?

You completely ignore the fact that withholding information is IN YOUR OWN OPINION scummy. Your continued dodging of the issue is scummy. As I said before, the chief scum motivation for not saying this is to keep from locking yourself down. This happens to also be the reason you want to not share this information. That is scummy.

Your nit-picking my words "awhile" and "a bit" is really lame. And your "you're due for an ISO" doesn't scare me, feel free.

[Thor665]

Alas I want to conclude (and maybe in a redundant way, forgive me) that my game in its entirety from a perspective of you is scummier than all these current players:

::List of everyone not on my top scum list or that is ranked lower then Benmage::

You have accurately assessed the concept of a top scum list. Yes, in general I feel you are scummier then all of those other players. Why, do you think I'm drastically overlooking something here?

I will clarify, that personally I think Richard is full of fail as is his game - but he's been cleared by other situations. (I just want to keep bringing this up in the vague hope that he'll decide to actually start participating again - or at the very least learn a few hints as to how *not* to behave as cleared town)

[Benmage]

You completely ignore the fact that withholding information is IN YOUR OWN OPINION scummy.

So you find it scummy only insofar as I find it scummy and am committing the act? Is this correct?

Your continued dodging of the issue is scummy.

How am I dodging the issue when we are talking about it right now....

As I said before, the chief scum motivation for not saying this is to keep from locking yourself down. This happens to also be the reason you want to not share this information. That is scummy.

I disagree that it is to keep me from locking down. I do not fear a change of opinions. This one however is a more subtle approach that I'm certain will come to fruition. I also do not think what I am doing is scummy.

Your nit-picking my words "awhile" and "a bit" is really lame.

Those have two very different meanings...Which am I guilty of?

And your "you're due for an ISO" doesn't scare me, feel free.

That was not my intent, I just came to the realization that I haven't been paying enough attention to you.