[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Max]

Well open games have a fixed number of players. So pick a size of set-up then we can go further. Every player being a power is not normal. Rename the roles to their current form:

Sushi Man = Townie
Monk = Super Saint

and then it looks better but is just as bad. There is no explanation of why a mafiate would hoodwink someone as there is no benefit. Etc.

[bv310]

I hope that game gets chosen, because I would love to play it.

I'd second this.

[mask man]

There is no explanation of why a mafiate would hoodwink someone as there is no benefit.

If a super-saint is fooled, they become false.

[Mr. Flay]

This

literally

came to me in a dream last night, so I lay no claim to it being a balanced setup as yet.

wait your turn, tex

• n
  Even-Night Vigilantes (1-shot)
  
• n
  Odd-Night Vigilantes (1-shot)
  
• n
  Mafia Gunmen (each has 1-shot)

Day Start

[Ythan]

Does the mafia have a factional kill?

[Mr. Flay]

Not as currently envisioned. It's basically an attempt to 'fix' Texas Justice.

[Ythan]

Interesting then.

[Twomz]

So mafia would make up 1/3 of the total town? Also, the town doesn't get day kills, only one shot nks?

[Trojan Horse]

This

literally

came to me in a dream last night

Time to revive the Too Much Mafia thread?

[Ythan]

I had a mafia dream last night as well and thought about looking that thread up.

[Mr. Flay]

So mafia would make up 1/3 of the total town? Also, the town doesn't get day kills, only one shot nks?

Well, one-shot NKs plus the normal lynch.

::edit::

Oh, and I think it's necessary that Mafia win 1-1 endgames. Otherwise Town can threaten to shoot everybody but one person as they get close, and force a draw.

This

literally

came to me in a dream last night

Time to revive the Too Much Mafia thread?

Almost certainly.

[StrangerCoug]

::edit::

Oh, and I think it's necessary that Mafia win 1-1 endgames. Otherwise Town can threaten to shoot everybody but one person as they get close, and force a draw.

By that logic, shouldn't the Mafia just win when they make up half the game?

[Mr. Flay]

Logic? What is this logic of which you speak?? This is a game, and we're just looking for balance... actually, I think what I meant above was "1-1 endgame where both have used their shot", to restrict it further. 8:4 is the same as the Nightless ratio, but Town gets a lot more kills here than in Nightless.

[Mr. Flay]

This

literally

came to me in a dream last night, so I lay no claim to it being a balanced setup as yet.

wait your turn, tex

• n
  Even-Night Vigilantes (1-shot)
  
• n
  Odd-Night Vigilantes (1-shot)
  
• n
  Mafia Gunmen (each has 1-shot)

Day Start.
Mafia has no group kill.
Mafia autowins 1-1 endgame scenarios where Town has used their 1-shot already.

[The Fonz]

If the cop claims, the doc enabler should counterclaim him (or possibly get the drop on him by claiming first), that way if the counter fails, then the doc is disabled and the scum are free to kill the cop. two power roles dealt with for the price of 1 scum in even the worst case scenario (and even better if the scum is believed) seems like an even trade.

I hope that game gets chosen, because I would love to play it.

I had the same thought when I ruminated on this, actually. Leaves 10-2 with the vig, and a doc which can't do anything but is a confirmed innocent if not counterclaimed (and 1-1 for a role which can't do anything isn't worth it). Which is balanced. And since the cop can almost certainly do better than this by waiting, then it's probably not broken.

As for wanting to give the vig an extra kill, well, I think this weights it too much towards town. (Plus, 13p doesn't actually do this- in 9-3, presuming the doc doesn't save, the vig can kill once without costing a lynch. In 13p, the vig can't kill at all without costing a lynch, but once he's done it, the second kill is free). I prefer it at 12. Although the 'pick your poison' element with the vig in 13p is intriguing.

Also suggest:

Good Cop, Mad Cop

Two cops
Three goons
seven townies

Cop sanity is calculated thus: 50% sane, 16.5% naive, 16.5% paranoid, 16.5% insane. (To randomise this easily, generate a random number from 1-12, 1-6 sane, 7-8 naive, etc).

So each cop has 50% chance of being straightforward, basically 2/3 chance to be useful, plus they're specific named roles (confirmed if not countered). However, there's no chance of protection, and each cop needs to take the time to work out their sanity.

Ed: Perhaps 40-20-20-20 is more balanced? Probability of at least one sane cop goes down from 75% to 64%.

[animorpherv1]

Nominate Kingdom Mafia

[Beefster]

Rival Detective Mafia

• 1 Mafia Godfather
  
• 1 Mafia Goon
  
• 1 Mafia Roleblocker
  
• 2 Miller Cops
  
• 1 Doctor
  
• 6 Vanilla Townies

+ Cop Headstart for balance.
The cops do not know each other and have independent investigations. Since they are rivals, if they check the other's house, they will return guilty results.

Psych Mafia

Based on the TV show...

• 2 NK-immune Serial Killers
  
• Shawn (Sane Cop with post restriction)
  
• Gus (Doctor)
  
• Lassiter (Crazy Cop)
  
• Jules (Sane deputy to Lassiter)
  
• Shawn's Dad (Retired/One-shot Cop)
  
• 1 Pineapple salesman (named VT)
  
• 4 Vanilla Townies

Cop Headstart?
Shawn must post nonsense. Shawn and Gus know each other and Shawn can whisper one message to Gus during each day. Gus's job is to "translate" the gibberish.
Lassiter will get wrong results if he picks the same target as Shawn, but gets correct results if he picks a different target.
The SKs might try to act like Shawn or Gus.
Then again, this might be better for a bastard theme game...

[Zajnet]

I have an idea for a game setup. Lemme know if you think this is balanced.

Deuce Mafia

2 Town Vanillas
2 Town Cops
2 Town Docs
2 Town Masons
2 Town Vigilantes
2 Mafia Roleblockers
2 Mafia Goons

@Psych Mafia: Seems like a fun setup.

[Max]

Not balanced. The mafia have nowhere to hide in a mass claim.

[Max]

* 1 Mafia Godfather
* 1 Mafia Goon
* 1 Mafia Roleblocker
* 2 Miller Cops
* 1 Doctor
* 6 Vanilla Townies

Remove the RB and the Doctor and I think the game is balanced (ie. 3 Mafia (1 Inv. Immune), 2 Miller Cops, 7 Town)

[Zajnet]

Not balanced. The mafia have nowhere to hide in a mass claim.

Any ideas on how to make it balanced? Assign roles (cop, doc, vig, mason, roleblocker) independent of alignment and add 2 SKs or something?

[Max]

Independence of alignment is a good idea.

[Alduskkel]

That just makes it swingy.

[Ythan]

In order to minimize swing, semi-open setups usually don't totally randomize the setup but instead allow for a number of possible arrangements that should maintain balance.

[Beefster]

* 1 Mafia Godfather
* 1 Mafia Goon
* 1 Mafia Roleblocker
* 2 Miller Cops
* 1 Doctor
* 6 Vanilla Townies

Remove the RB and the Doctor and I think the game is balanced (ie. 3 Mafia (1 Inv. Immune), 2 Miller Cops, 7 Town)

Might as well make it into an experimental 13 player setup without the doctor. ie. have 8 Townies instead of 7.

@Deuce Mafia: add in sanities for the cops and doctors, make one of the roleblockers town-aligned, and make the vigilantes one-shot or replace them with named vanilla townies.