Square Enix III: (Game over)


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Post Post #500 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:56 pm

Post by Midnight's Sorrow »

Nope.

I like my hair-brained ideas thank you please~



Vote Count:

PranaDevil: 2
(vezokpiraka, xRECKONERx)

Not Voting:

bill1148
bv310
Chronopie
Fate
Glork
inHimshallibe
KDub
Midnight's Sorrow
PranaDevil
quadz08
Zazier

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

August 11th - 3:00 AM EST
Last edited by Kise on Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post Post #501 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:57 pm

Post by xRECKONERx »

MS, don't be stupid.
VZP is town.
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Post Post #502 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:57 pm

Post by Midnight's Sorrow »

Who says I'm saying vezo isn't town?
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Post Post #503 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:59 pm

Post by vezokpiraka »

It goes over kills. I got mod confirm on that.
It should block everything. It even blocked me for god sake. Why did a kill went through?
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Post Post #504 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:01 pm

Post by Midnight's Sorrow »

Hey vezo?

You gonna full claim?

I mean might as well :?
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Post Post #505 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:04 pm

Post by quadz08 »

Somebody from vezok's QT: please explain how Prana was scummy. I've seen no evidence of it thus far.
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Post Post #506 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:15 pm

Post by Chronopie »

Attack the person still on V/LA... Real slick guys.
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Post Post #507 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:19 pm

Post by vezokpiraka »

Why are there 4 VT down?
Is this game VT only with one or two power roles?
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Post Post #508 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:23 pm

Post by Chronopie »

Well there's some sort of strongman. Some masons. Probably a cop and/or doc. and a global RB :/

vs. w/e scum roles.

--

How does a global RB block the RB-er?
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Post Post #509 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:25 pm

Post by vezokpiraka »

Cause the global roleblock happens before anything else.
How could there be some masons?
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Post Post #510 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:30 pm

Post by Chronopie »

I'm guessing that the scum must have some fairly powerful roles to combat the global RB. Because only being able to kill some nights would be a major disadvantage.

Given the kill flavours *Combusted* *Strangled* *Juiced* we clearly have multiple killers. that suggests multiple scumteams. and kise wouldn't've (shouldn't've) given one team more kills than the other. (The Fact that SE I FF didn't have a guaranteed extra kill D1 was that the AF killed their target lol)

--

-Preview Edit: hurr. I claimed Mason D1.-
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Post Post #511 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:32 pm

Post by Chronopie »

EBWOP: *juiced* should read *smashed* kill flavor != page title
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Post Post #512 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:32 pm

Post by vezokpiraka »

Then why is it only one kill?
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Post Post #513 (ISO) » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:36 pm

Post by Chronopie »

Clearly some kind of strongman.

I'd point to SE I for varied mafia roles. (Commute + RB |
Delayed (avoidable) DK
+ Vote thief). Kise doesn't always mod fair. (Completely OP SE II Maf GF.)
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Post Post #514 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:27 am

Post by PranaDevil »

I like how Vezo comes in here and starts shooting off that I'm obv scum, ignores MS, and states Glork has said I'm scummy. When what he actually said was "from our QT" it was likely me or MS, and that he had previously had people claiming he said I was definitely town, when he hadn't said that either. He's basically saying he's not sure either way, as opposed to "Prana's scum". So may I ask you to please pay attention to the game vezo, especially when it's things where people have claimed parts of their role previously (such as Chrono claiming mason on day 1).

Incidentally, I'm not 100% on anyone left in our QT, Glork is strong as hell if he's town, but he's going to be even stronger a mafia if he can convince people to follow his lead. However thus far he's done nothing scummy so I have no reason to pursue anything in that sense. Vezo I've seen absolutely nothing pro-town, but the latest jump to conclusions is a bit iffy for me, but I'm also wary of diving on him purely because he's attacking me. Pushing people is good, jumping on someone just because they chose to pursue something they think might lead somewhere (rightly or wrongly) is bad.

MS and KDub I'm not really that sure on thus far, so don't want to make a call either way yet.

To be honest, right now I'm still concerned about how the hell we lynched JP like we did. Half the votes needed to lynch and he's gone, and I still doubt it was an active ability, which leads me to believe there's either two scum teams, or a third party out there. Especially with the amount of kills going round this game.
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Post Post #515 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:19 am

Post by bill1148 »

Well that was weird.

JP dies at a measly 4 votes for whatever reason. It might have been some sort of automatic ability for him, where if lynched he dies at less votes (to counterbalance other abilities, I'm sure). In which case, some +town points for all four who voted for JP (Reck, Midnight, vezok, inHim). I don't think scum would, with the knowledge that their partner was going to die at such few votes, be willing to throw a vote on him. Being that a) No Town player would be aware of an early death, and as such no suspicion comes to those who didn't vote for scum and b) little reason to throw an early vote on a player where there is virtually no case for him. He is gone for most of Day 1, then when he returns when the Day is nearly over. Day 2 he dies before he even gets on here. I think he made a total of like 3 posts this entire game. Again, not much suspicion goes to those who didn't vote for him.

Other possibilities, is some ability (not from JP or his team) that hit JP. Might be a captain/president, though this is a pretty weak case since in my experience everyone is informed when that ability is used. Some kind of voting ability is possible. These are the only abilities that come to mind atm.

Thoughts:
-Glork & Zaz need to be watched carefully. Glork for suspecting Devo. Also, his "JP pressure is good but vote Fate" post doesn't sit right. Zaz for suspecting Devo & Nero. That said, some +points for Glork's use of decent inductive reasoning by suspecting Prana/Midnight. I've done some heavy re-reading and can find virtually no reason for a kill on Nautillus based on Day 1 alone, so looking at QT is good.

Reposting this, with some minor editing: I'd like many people to contribute more. This includes, but is not limited to: kdub, Midnight, Fate, inHim, bv

99.999% likely to be Town:
Chrono
vezok

And now that that's all said...back to where I was yesterday.
vote bv
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Post Post #516 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:22 am

Post by Midnight's Sorrow »

Chronopie wrote: Given the kill flavours *Combusted* *Strangled* *Juiced* we clearly have multiple killers. that suggests multiple scumteams. and kise wouldn't've (shouldn't've) given one team more kills than the other. (The Fact that SE I FF didn't have a guaranteed extra kill D1 was that the AF killed their target lol)
Or the more favorable approach, different kill flavors per scum member.

-gasp-

I never thought of that before :/
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Post Post #517 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:31 am

Post by bill1148 »

PranaDevil wrote:I like how Vezo comes in here and starts shooting off that I'm obv scum, ignores MS, and states Glork has said I'm scummy. When what he actually said was "from our QT" it was likely me or MS, and that he had previously had people claiming he said I was definitely town, when he hadn't said that either. He's basically saying he's not sure either way, as opposed to "Prana's scum". So may I ask you to please pay attention to the game vezo, especially when it's things where people have claimed parts of their role previously (such as Chrono claiming mason on day 1).

Incidentally, I'm not 100% on anyone left in our QT, Glork is strong as hell if he's town, but he's going to be even stronger a mafia if he can convince people to follow his lead. However thus far he's done nothing scummy so I have no reason to pursue anything in that sense. Vezo I've seen absolutely nothing pro-town, but the latest jump to conclusions is a bit iffy for me, but I'm also wary of diving on him purely because he's attacking me. Pushing people is good, jumping on someone just because they chose to pursue something they think might lead somewhere (rightly or wrongly) is bad.

MS and KDub I'm not really that sure on thus far, so don't want to make a call either way yet.

To be honest, right now I'm still concerned about how the hell we lynched JP like we did. Half the votes needed to lynch and he's gone, and I still doubt it was an active ability, which leads me to believe there's either two scum teams, or a third party out there. Especially with the amount of kills going round this game.
Terrible post Prana.

Vezo is pro-town based on claim alone (same as Chrono). He can prove his ability and it can apparently block at least one of the night kills. If there are two scum teams, that pretty much nullifies that chance he is from Scum team A. WHY block everyone if it prevents your kill? If he is from the same scum team as the one that killed last night, that would be
extremely
over-powered, considering he said he can use it on even night phases. It's still possible that it's SK, but SK's are far more rare than two scum teams. As well, I've never heard of a mass-roleblocking + kill every night SK.

On the second part, it reads "I'm disappointed a scum leader died."

But a question on the second part about JP: You believe, then, that this was an ability used by another player, rather than a counter-productive ability that JP already had?
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Post Post #518 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:44 am

Post by quadz08 »

I think it's probably more likely that JP was hit with an ability. Half the votes required for lynch would need a RIDICULOUS ability to counter it with, which, while possible in this game, I find less likely than the ability thing.
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QFT

I'm still looking at Fate and Midnight. They're top 2 on my list right now.

Bill, can you remind me why you're voting bv?
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Post Post #519 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:49 am

Post by PranaDevil »

bill1148 wrote:Vezo is pro-town based on claim alone (same as Chrono). He can prove his ability and it can apparently block at least one of the night kills. If there are two scum teams, that pretty much nullifies that chance he is from Scum team A. WHY block everyone if it prevents your kill? If he is from the same scum team as the one that killed last night, that would be
extremely
over-powered, considering he said he can use it on even night phases. It's still possible that it's SK, but SK's are far more rare than two scum teams. As well, I've never heard of a mass-roleblocking + kill every night SK.

On the second part, it reads "I'm disappointed a scum leader died."

But a question on the second part about JP: You believe, then, that this was an ability used by another player, rather than a counter-productive ability that JP already had?
Point taken about vezo's claim, that does, indeed, confirm him. It would be ridiculous for a mafia to have that power and then fire it off when they could be killing. Unless... their mafia team can only kill once every other night. (Which is a possibility, as we know there is at least one role with that ability now, in vezo's own claim).

I'm really not sure if it's two scum teams, or an SK, but I really don't feel JP had an active ability that risked him being lynched purely through some day 1 pressure. It would make the game too swingy and I don't think Kise would put that in. It's something I don't wish to consider to be honest, and thus I'm more of the opinion somebody else used an ability that forced JP to be lynched early.

Which brings me to why I'm concerned about how we lynched JP. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that we got lucky, but I'm not going to ignore what is essentially staring us in the face, namely that it is unlikely to be an active ability, and that it's even more unlikely that a pro-town player used it on JP like that. I hadn't picked up on anything scummy JP had done when I returned and looked over the posts that happened while I was away, so it appeared to just be some pressure on him, and suddenly he's lynched.

Thus I see it as scum getting rid of someone else regardless of who it was, and it coincidentally being an opposing scum team. Hence my concern.
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Post Post #520 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:52 am

Post by vezokpiraka »

Well I can use my ability like this.
I didn't use it night 1. I used it night 2. I can't use it again night 3. Night 4 I can use it.
It was to powerful if I could have used this every day. You know. Lynch, next lynch, lynch again.
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Post Post #521 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:55 am

Post by Kdub »

My thoughts on the JP quicklynch:

If it was an intrinsic liability of his, then the setup is probably one scum group (~5 members) plus SK. Having that much of a reduced lynch threshold is a huge liability for a smaller scum team (~3 members) unless they have some serious power to counter that.

If it was an ability that gave him or everyone a reduced lynch threshold for the day (obviously a scum ability, implying a second scum group other than JP's), then I am suspicious of Prana because it looked like a wagon on him was gaining steam when JP was lynched, as well as inHim for being the hammer. vezo was strongly tunnelled on JP based on a single post where he was fence-sitting, but I have to agree with bill that the mass roleblock seems more likely to be a town ability for balance reasons. I speculated in the night QT that opposing scum may have investigated JP the night before and found that he was scum, so they moved to quicklynch him yesterday. Otherwise, it seems strange that they would use such an ability to take out a random player like that unless they had good reason to believe JP was a threat, and I don't see how they could have figured that just from his one bad post.

inHim has been doing nothing but follow the biggest wagons so far. Between inHim and Prana, I prefer a inHim lynch at the moment.

VOTE: inHim
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Post Post #522 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 4:57 am

Post by PranaDevil »

vezokpiraka wrote:Well I can use my ability like this.
I didn't use it night 1. I used it night 2. I can't use it again night 3. Night 4 I can use it.
It was to powerful if I could have used this every day. You know. Lynch, next lynch, lynch again.
I gathered as much vezo, I was just kind of thinking aloud about how if the mafia can only kill every other night then it might make sense to have a scum roleblocker who can only block once every other night, and thus try and protect the team on their "off" nights.

But at this stage it's too far fetched to really consider it, and so I'd rather look elsewhere for now anyways.
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Post Post #523 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:35 am

Post by Glork »

Okay, kids, slow down.

As far as I know, Vezok does not have any magical information. He is mostly following my lead from our QT. FYI, our QT is {Glork, KDub, Vezo, Midnight, Prana, and the late Nautilius}.

N1, he directly asked me how I felt about JP. I told him that JP's general apathy towards the game and unwillingness to vote were VERY consistent with Square Enix I, in which JP was scum. I told Vezok that we should put some pressure onto JP in order to force him to make attacks and take a stand for once. I said we can't let him slide by most of the game complaining about the town without voting, like he did in SE1.

So, right out of the gates D2, Vezok goes after JP, and Reck followed him. I didn't want three votes on JP in like four posts (for once), so I sent out my tendrils elsewhere, while saying I liked the JP pressure. Fate was (and still is) on my list, and the whole Elli death thing made me wonder about Prana/Midnight. I still wonder about Prana, but Midnight somewhat less so. I already stated this, but to the people who were going "OMG GLORKRORK FLIPFLOPPORZ" yesterday, I gave Prana "plus points" very early in my readthrough of the game, but by the end of my readthrough I was very neutral about him. I even said I liked Quadz line of questioning towards Prana.

Now, last night in the QuickTopic, we hit on a few things. Here's a basic summary of what we talked about:
1) Glork recognized that Jenova was lynched at exactly HALF the regular lynch threshold. There are three likely possibilities from this.
---1a) Jenova had a permanent "ability" that required a half-lynch threshold to be lynched.
If
this is the case, then Jenova's scumbuddies were definitely NOT on his bandwagon.
---1b) Somebody had an ability which allows certain days to have half-lynch-thresholds. This seemed fairly unlikely to me overnight, but given the mass roleblock, I think we have to consider it as a real possibility.
---1c) Somebody targeted JP specifically to have a half-lynch threshold, either for the duration of the game, or for one day. Also a reasonable possibility, I suppose.

2) KDub and I don't like inHim's play. All he's done is wagon people. I definitely think he's a good place to start looking.

3) I still don't like Fate, who, after ONE DAY was trying to use Burden of Proficiency to sluff suspicion onto me. (Technically, he used two days, but he was referring to himself as town, so that can't be taken at face value.) Fate's stance towards Quadz has been MEGABAD, his wagoning has been terribad, and his flagrant use of Burden of Proficiency on me is consistent with scums trying to take advantage of a poor start to the game to draw up suspicion on me.

4) I still don't like Bill, but my reasons for that are more gut-based than anything else. That said, I do want to ask about one of his posts just now:
Bill wrote:Glork for suspecting Devo
I'll bite. Why does having been wrong about Devo make me necessary to "watch"?
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Post Post #524 (ISO) » Wed Jul 28, 2010 7:19 am

Post by bill1148 »

Glork wrote:
4) I still don't like Bill,
but my reasons for that are more gut-based than anything else.
:cop:
That said, I do want to ask about one of his posts just now:
Bill wrote:Glork for suspecting Devo
I'll bite. Why does having been wrong about Devo make me necessary to "watch"?
Eh, when looked in isolation, not really a reason. As I said earlier, scum generally want to kill other Night Killers. You and Zaz were one of the few to suspect Devo. You suspected Devo. So I made a
very weak
connection. Other than that, I noted the "I want JP pressure but I vote Fate" thing, but your reply about that in the middle section of your post is satisfactory. And also, although I've never seen you as scum before, you are a good player and I have little doubt you'd play as scum quite well.
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