Square Enix III: (Game over)

[PranaDevil]

EBWOP.

Also, you may not have said I didn't V/LA, but you obviously chose not to mention it, and whether I'm V/LA and not posting, or supposedly active and not posting makes a huge difference.

It comes across, to me, as deliberately trying to point out to people that I wasn't discussing anything while JP was getting lynched, despite the fact I couldn't get online at the time anyway, but conveniently neglecting that part of the tale.

So that also now factors into my view of you, an obvious misrepresentation of what was going on at that point in the game.

---

Vote Count:

bill1148: 6

(Zazier, Fate, Midnight's Sorrow, PranaDevil, inHimshallibe, vezokpiraka)

inHimshallibe: 3

(KDub, bv310, Glork)

PranaDevil: 1

(xRECKONERx)

Midnight's Sorrow: 1

(bill1148)

quadz08: 1

(Chronopie)

Not Voting:

quadz08

Lynch:

7 votes.

Deadline:

August 11th - 3:00 AM EST

[Glork]

What? How much someone talks in the neighborhood is irrelevant.

Strongly disagree.

Proeductive Neighborhood talk is a distinct protown sign, IMO. A town's best tool is daytalk, and nighttalk (even in a neighborhood) is merely an extension of that.

[Kdub]

I have no idea what you are saying there Kdub.
Even if you feel the rest of the votes are weak I still think it's a good wagon. Do we have a better lynch target?
Like I said I don't want to lynch Inhim. I prefer to vote someone who made more posts instead of going for the lurker.

I am saying that you are attacking bill for doing something that several of us were doing in the neighbor QT, yet you didn't say anything about us. Why is that?

I don't understand why inHim's lurking should be a reason to not want to lynch him, because that's hardly the only reason I think he's suspicious. Do you not agree that he has often conveniently joined the largest wagon for questionable reasoning?

[Glork]

Okay, glancing over the game, there is one glaringly bad observation I've made that is going to cost us dearly if it continues.

A disturbingly high majority of the players in this game are way to wagony without sufficient reason.

When you vote, I expect you to explain why you are voting -- ESPECIALLY if you're going to pile onto a wagon. Later on today or tomorrow, I'm going to run through the thread and note every unreasoned ("yeah, he's scummy" does not suffice) bandwagon vote. I'd wager that the biggest tally = 90% likely to be scum.



I don't give a flying fuck about Chrono's mason's supposed innocent result on Fate, he has contributed ZERO to the benefit of the town and needs to die. STRONGLY suggest somebody vig his ass dead tonight. If Chrono is lying, or his "mason cop" isn't sane or Fate is a godfather, I'm going to look like a goddamned fucking genius. If Fate's protown, meh, he still hasn't contributed anything worthwhile, and that would probably cost us the game in endgame.
Plus, if Fate is regular scum, then it basically confirms that Chrono is a lying sack of shit.

You know what? Fuck vigging.

Unvote, Vote: Fate

[Glork]

EBWOP: Way TOO wagony. Stupid grammar.

[xRECKONERx]

I vote whoever you vote, Glork.
Left 4 Dead Mafia taught me that is the golden rule.

But...don't lynch Fate today. Me/Fate/Chrono/quadz share a QT and I have a great idea which could benefit town AND help find scum at the same time.

[Glork]

Ugh. Fine.

Can you please tell Fate to stop being really terrible at this game, though? He might actually listen to you, because he seems to just ignore me.

Unvote

[xRECKONERx]

I'll attempt to get through to him using our CAPS LOCK COMMUNICATION METHODS

So Glork since we're obvtown we should lead on who to vote for right?
What're your thoughts on the bill wagon?
IIRC you said quadz is town: why?
Do you believe Chrono's mason claim? If so, should we allow HIM to lead the vote?

I could see us coming up with a list of people we WON'T be lynching today (including me, you, Fate, and Chrono) then allowing Chrono to lead a lynch since he supposedly knows who his mason buddies are.

[PranaDevil]

I'd be against letting Chrono decide anything beyond what he's having for dinner at the moment (and even then if he's sharing it with anyone I'd suggest giving it the once over before he poisons someone with it).

We need someone who at least has some read on people deciding this one, and that person needs to be either pro-town, or have an agreement from a few people before we go anywhere. I'd suggest Glork for this one though, as he directed us right in SE 1, and I'm hoping he's able to steer us right this time too.

[bill1148]

To be honest, right now nobody is standing out to me as scum

Being that this is Day 3, I'd like to think that you have some idea who is scum. Here you are admitting that I do not "stand out as scum," yet you'll readily toss a wagon vote onto me?

You pulled me up over purely being concerned over JP's lynch, despite the fact I'd made my reasons obvious why I was concerned,

I said how I felt you sounded. I did not make a 10 page report on how you sound

over the internet

makes you scum.

you've also stated Vezo is pro-town after the claim, and then waited a while before saying that it was a terrible job for him to role claim, why did you feel the need to add that well after the claim had been said?

Perhaps a misunderstanding, but I still fully believe veok is pro-town.

How

he plays is another story, and there is not denying that claiming a fairly powerful ability when he had no reason to is dumb. As for "waiting too long after the claim to mention it," it took me a while to come to the realization that vezok would be blocking our doctor while simulataneously [possibly] allowing himself to be killed by an un-blockable killer, hence my concern. Though I am surprised no one had come to that realization before I did.

EBWOP.

Also, you may not have said I didn't V/LA, but you obviously chose not to mention it, and whether I'm V/LA and not posting, or supposedly active and not posting makes a huge difference.

I'll re-phrase:

I don't give a flying fuck that you were absent Day 2. It's something that doesn't help you nor hurt you. It was there mostly for the purpose of pointing out to anyone who was going to ask "who'd he wagon Day 2?"

[Glork]

I'm going to refrain from voting for now, because I really want to take some time to look at these big, sweeping wagons. There are definitely slacker scums who are going around wagoning people, and they're the people I'd like to root out first.

As I've stated before, I'm a little undecided on Chrono. The strategist in me really WANTS to believe his mason claim, but I feel that his play has been inconsistent and overall kind of poor. Due to several recent games in which I've been pinpoint accurate but watched towns blow easily winnable games (L4D, AGTM, Umineko to name three off the top of my head), the buttface in me wants to say "no, give me the reigns." So I'm not sure.

---------------------------------

I do agree with you that, if we can decide on a few VERYOBVTOWN players, we can probably get some kind of forceful voting bloc. There are, however, two issues with this:
1) If there are two scumgroups, I wouldn't put much faith in "obvtown." Everybody who I feel HAS contributed so far (including both you and me, Reck) are easily capable of legitimately hunting the other team to make themselves look very protown.
2) If there's only one scumgroup, and we are all protown, we're basically telling the scums who to kill... which may or may not backfire.

I do think that, if we can get Fate to make legit contributions and actually look for scum himself, we can probably get a VERY good read on who else is "probable town" and who else is "probable scum." So with that respect, yes. I do like the idea of putting more weight on the "SUPER LIKELY PROTOWN" players, rather than the shameless bandwagoners who aren't doing jack shit.
Also, we need to add Vezo to the "No Lynch" list. He's very obviously protown.

----------------------------------

One thing I do believe:
If Chrono really is a mason, and he really does have a mod-confirmed masonbuddycop, then two things need to happen. First, Chrono and said cop need to breadcrumb hints about one another if they haven't already. Chrono needs to bury his buddy's name in some undetectable fashion, then tell his buddy tonight how to decipher it. His buddy should then do the same, so that we'll know that there isn't a scumbag just making up bullshit like "Chrono's idea was to do the first letter of the third word and the fourth letter of the seventh word and the last letter of the third word and...."

Secondly, Chrono should be claiming the cop's results daily, and the doctor(s) should be choosing protections among THOSE PEOPLE. This is a GREAT advantage over the traditional "cop claims his targets, but the doc has to protect the cop" pitfall. If the scums kill Chrono, then our cop is still active and can still investigate. The cop keeps their results close at hand, and continues business as usual.

[Glork]

Oh, and to answer your question about Quadz, I'm basically going to paraphrase what I said in my QT Night 1:
It's not so much that Quadz is oozing town, but his wagon was oozing opportunistic scum.

With two deaths N1 and the possibility of there being two scumgroups, Quadz is not nearly as high on my town list as he was before, although I still really hate most of the wagon that built up on him. I suppose I could be persuaded that he's scum, but my knee-jerk reaction to D1 was "wow, this is a terrible wagon with a butt-ton of scums."

[xRECKONERx]

Glork - what if Chrono outed his mason buddies to me, Fate, and quadz in our QT. Then, we can do a few things:

1) We know that if one of them turns up dead out of nowhere, that one of me/Fate/quadz is the reason.

2) Chrono cannot fakeclaim mason with his scumbuddies later on in the game and will be forced to stick with his claim from tonight onwards.

3) Sort of forms a semi-larger-mason group if the masoncop investigates/clears me/Fate/quadz, then we essentially have a six person mason group that scum will HAVE to get rid of, and there's no way they're going to kill SIX people before endgame.

[PranaDevil]

To be honest, right now nobody is standing out to me as scum

Being that this is Day 3, I'd like to think that you have some idea who is scum. Here you are admitting that I do not "stand out as scum," yet you'll readily toss a wagon vote onto me?

That's the thing, the people who are acting most scummy, are also people I think are likely town, and I'm confused as fuck.

You pulled me up over purely being concerned over JP's lynch, despite the fact I'd made my reasons obvious why I was concerned,

I said how I felt you sounded. I did not make a 10 page report on how you sound

over the internet

makes you scum.

Purely pointing out why I have negative vibes towards you.

you've also stated Vezo is pro-town after the claim, and then waited a while before saying that it was a terrible job for him to role claim, why did you feel the need to add that well after the claim had been said?

Perhaps a misunderstanding, but I still fully believe veok is pro-town.

How

he plays is another story, and there is not denying that claiming a fairly powerful ability when he had no reason to is dumb. As for "waiting too long after the claim to mention it," it took me a while to come to the realization that vezok would be blocking our doctor while simulataneously [possibly] allowing himself to be killed by an un-blockable killer, hence my concern. Though I am surprised no one had come to that realization before I did.

Fair point on this one.

EBWOP.

Also, you may not have said I didn't V/LA, but you obviously chose not to mention it, and whether I'm V/LA and not posting, or supposedly active and not posting makes a huge difference.

I'll re-phrase:

I don't give a flying fuck that you were absent Day 2. It's something that doesn't help you nor hurt you. It was there mostly for the purpose of pointing out to anyone who was going to ask "who'd he wagon Day 2?"

But it didn't need pulling up, nor pointing out. The fact you chose to deliberately not state in your statement that I wasn't active Day 2 due to being V/LA does, as far as I'm concerned, make it seem like you are deliberately trying to make out that I chose not to post for the entire day, as opposed to not being able to. You say others were "absent" as well. No, they weren't, those others may not have posted at all, but they damned sure weren't V/LA, which is the big difference in what I'm getting at.

[Glork]

Glork - what if Chrono outed his mason buddies to me, Fate, and quadz in our QT. Then, we can do a few things:

1) We know that if one of them turns up dead out of nowhere, that one of me/Fate/quadz is the reason.

2) Chrono cannot fakeclaim mason with his scumbuddies later on in the game and will be forced to stick with his claim from tonight onwards.

3) Sort of forms a semi-larger-mason group if the masoncop investigates/clears me/Fate/quadz, then we essentially have a six person mason group that scum will HAVE to get rid of, and there's no way they're going to kill SIX people before endgame.

Are Chrono, Fate, Reck, and Quadz the only people left in that neighborhood? If that's the case, then yes, that'd be fantastic.... ESPECIALLY if Fate and/or Quadz have been investigated innocent.

[Fate]

Soooooo

Glork kept pushing and pushing me, since its easy to make a case on me, Chrono softclaims that I'm town by investigation etc. Glork turns to SANITY AND GODFATHER speculation....

ALL THE WHILE he finally ends up unvoting and not revoting anyone else.

HEY GLORK WHEN YOU STOP FISHING AND START LOOKING FOR SCUM LET ME KNOW.

Unvote:
Vote: GLORK

Yeah this is fuckin happening.

[Fate]

^I made the above post without reading the thread.

So far I skimmed back and saw glork vote

INHIM, for lurking. Then UNVOTE as if he were unvoting me and saying "ugh fine, I'll stop rolefishing why you think Fate's town"

AKA INHIM IS SCUMBUDDY #1.

That's two down.

[Fate]

ADD POWER ROLE DIRECTING TO THE LIST OF GLORK'S ATROCITIES.

Reck the fuck you see in this guy?

EDWOP: Yeah so Glork did vote me before he unvoted again. BUT STILL his inHim vote makes no fuckin sense in context, and he even goes so far to say: "Idunno who to vote yet" AND A

AND
AND

He made the great leap of logic:
"FATES SCUM NO MATTER WHAT CHRONO SAYS SANITY/GF BS BS BS"
Reck: "Fates not the lynch today."
"Oh ok, well hopefully Fate will actually contribute now and we can find scum together and hold hands and shit."

GLORK IS NOT TOWN THIS GAME GUIZ

[Glork]

Yes, I absolutely stated that your play has been so horrendously awful that if there were a time to distrust an investigation, it would be in this specific instance. How it follows from that statement that I am scum is unclear.

I still maintain that a mod-confirmed sane cop in a masonry is EXTREMELY POWERFUL. Because it is. I am having a pretty difficult time believing what Chrono has said about his masonry. (In fact, I think it's more likely that Fate/Chrono are masonbuddies than Chrono is a masonbuddy with someone else who has an innocent investigation on Fate. In this instance, I do not believe that Fate would likely be a cop.)

I backed off of you this afternoon because I trust that Reck is decently likely to be protown, and I am 100% certain that his ability to read your alignment is far better than my own. So yeah, I wanted you dead but for like the second time, Reck was like "dude, Glork, he's seriously not the play." And I trust that, because I want to make sure we lynch scum, not just idiots. That is a natrual, logical, and very protown progression.

I would assume that Reck has a better read on me because he's actually familiar with my gameplay. When I have any remote success as scum (LRCM 2.0, Space Monkey, CT: 1), I am meticulous and planning, and often have focused attacks. I've stated before (currently ongoing game, but I died as protown) that a careless, sloppy, or flaily Glork is a protown Glork, and that meta has been shown to be accurate time and time again.

The reason for this is VERY simple, and it's something I've maintained throughout most of my mafia career: My posts in games are very heavily scrutinized -- ALL THE TIME. When I'm town, I typically do a pretty good job of pointing the town in the right direction (if not leading them to victory outright). When I'm scum, I can pretty much make towns fall into line by busing somebody, catching scum on the other team, outing the SK, pretty much whatever, because I know that I'm being scrutinized.

I am forced to be careful when scum, because I can't afford undue suspicion, but when I'm town, I am sometimes genuinely sloppy -- especially in early days.

So no, your insinuation that I've been sloppy and inconsistent actually

points to a Glorktown meta instead of a Glorkscum meta

Next, to address your "THEN HE UNVOTED WITHOUT VOTING ANYONE ELSE" point, I've already explained that. I want to take some time to examine the large wagons and see who is bullshitting their way through this game without trying to find scum. EVERY large game nowadays has at least one or two scumbags who pike through most of the game then make endgame a living hell for bad or inexperienced players. AND IT NEVER FUCKING CHANGES. Do you know why? Because lazy and stupid people would rather look at one glaring error and go "X IS OBVIOUSLY SCUM" or read someone else's posts and go "I'M TOO FUCKING LAZY TO DO ANY WORK SO I WILL JUST BANDWAGON" rather than rooting around in the shadows and actually doing any fucking LEGWORK to help win. I truly and deeply believe that mafia today is more of a crapshoot than it ever has been, but bad players seem to be okay with this, so it doesn't change.

Finally, I'm not really sure where you got "power role directing" from. I think the closest I got was saying "Chrono should claim his cop buddy's results" which still has no downside, because we get results and the cop's identity is still protected. (Incidentally, that's one of the main reasons WHY masoncopbuddies are overpowered.)

[Glork]

EBWOP: Oh, and I didn't vote inHim for lurking. In SE1, he made like maybe five posts in the entire two days he was alive, but I left him well alone because I could tell that he was protown. inHim not saying much has very little to do with why I pressured him, because I know that's par for the course. The reason I voted inHim is because, from what I

have

seen, I have a somewhat scummy read on him. If you'd been paying attention, Fate, you'd know that I already posted "KDub and I don't like inHim" from our QT discussion.

There, I think that covers anything.

[Fate]

I skimmed your vote and I didn't see anything except more fishing:
-I'm not a mason buddy with Chrono btw. I didn't even believe his claim at first.-

AND defending your actions.

I SAID GET BACK TO ME WHEN YOURE DONE FISHING.

THIS FUCKIN WAGON BETTER HAPPEN.

IM SERIOUS

[Fate]

Finally, I'm not really sure where you got "power role directing" from. I think the closest I got was saying "Chrono should claim his cop buddy's results" which still has no downside, because we get results and the cop's identity is still protected. (Incidentally, that's one of the main reasons WHY masoncopbuddies are overpowered.)

OH really? You can't defend yourself by FLAT OUT LYING btw.

[Fate]

One thing I do believe:
If Chrono really is a mason, and he really does have a mod-confirmed masonbuddycop, then two things need to happen. First, Chrono and said cop need to breadcrumb hints about one another if they haven't already. Chrono needs to bury his buddy's name in some undetectable fashion, then tell his buddy tonight how to decipher it. His buddy should then do the same, so that we'll know that there isn't a scumbag just making up bullshit like "Chrono's idea was to do the first letter of the third word and the fourth letter of the seventh word and the last letter of the third word and...."

Secondly, Chrono should be claiming the cop's results daily, and the doctor(s) should be choosing protections among THOSE PEOPLE. This is a GREAT advantage over the traditional "cop claims his targets, but the doc has to protect the cop" pitfall. If the scums kill Chrono, then our cop is still active and can still investigate. The cop keeps their results close at hand, and continues business as usual.

^THIS IS POWER ROLE DIRECTION ASSCLOWN

[Fate]

"Don't protect Chrono so we can kill him"

OR

"I want to know if Chrono is the mason-cop and asks for protection"

AKA

"Im scum. Give me info."

You're ballsy as fuck.

ORRRRRRRR

Not as good at town as you think you are. THIS is horrible play. Worse than mine (apathy) because you're MISGUIDING town.

AKA

You're a far better lynch today then whoever the hell I was on.

[Glork]

Read what I said and try again. What I posted is BASIC MAFIA STRATEGY.

Masons should ALWAYS bury their buddies' names in a hidden but confirmable manner. That is the most fundamental advantage of masonhood.

Secondly, confirmation of multiple innocents is not a bad thing in this scenario, because the scums almost certainly cannot keep up with us. There are like four excellent kill targets already, and if the strongman is a protown vig, we're on the gravy train to victory by doing little more than strategically eliminating the people who are doing the least (aka, lurkers and bandwagoners). Don't even try to bullshit me with "claiming results is bad," because you probably know that the scums would target among Chrono, vezo, or Reck anyway. We already know that vezo has claimed power, and Chrono has claimed confirmed masons with a power role, so diluting the kill pool with additional unknown roles actually makes the scums' life more difficult.