Super Smash Bros. Mafia! GAME OVER!!

[SGRaaize]

I assume you haven't read much of the thread if that's the scummiest thing you found in this whole discussion, Paltry

[PaltryExcuse]

I assume you haven't read much of the thread if that's the scummiest thing you found in this whole discussion, Paltry

Why's that?

[Pikachu]

[FRIEND]

Why aren't we using the smashball as a pseudo double lynch instead of putting all of our trust in one member who we all THINK is town? AKA, We have a lynch, and then we have a 'night lynch'. Two town lynches for the price of voting. It changes whom we give the smashball to a 1-shot protection.

I like this idea.

[Gollum]

Seth is a mean scummer. He votes for the MPR, a big wagon then goes on V/LA. Its holding up the game an WE HATES IT!!! What if MPR's wagon were to grow big to lynch, this allows the Seth to blend in.

fos: Seth

WE WANTS KILL MONGOOSE!!! WE WANTS KILL MONGOOSE!!! WE WANTS KILL MONGOOSE!!! He does bad again. His user title says townperson but he is not.

fos: Mongoose

One of those three will SUFFER!!!

[Friend]

[FRIEND]

@Gollum/Smeagol (I love your posting style btw): You say one of these three, who is the other person besides seth/mongoose?
What is your opinion of Kirbyoshi?

[Gollum]

Hollywood knows better than to randomly bandwagon. WE HATES IT!!!! He is the third and one of those three will SUFFER!!! We keeps eye on Kirby be he will not suffer today.

[tanstalas]

From Kirby's ISO's

ISO-5 - Kirby is almost willing to bet there is scum on the MPR wagon

I don't think there have been any tells of consequence, if any at all. Looks like people are just feeling each other out, throwing votes around, seeing what sticks.

What reasoning on the MPR wagon? There is none, and

I'd even be willing to bet there's overeager scum on it. It would take some wagon analyzing (which I'll probably end up doing) to figure out who's most likely to be scum out of the MPR wagoners, but it looks like there's one on there.

ISO-12 - When Furry also says that he believes that there is scum on the wagon Kirby is quick to point out that the "math" says that there is a better chance that there is no scum on the wagon (I know he says that he thinks there "could" be at "least" one scum on the wagon) just seems that he was so confident about his ISO-5 post and when someone agrees with him he kind of backs off. What's the matter kirby? Some of your scum buddies on that wagon?

I would bet there is scum on the MPR wagon regardless of MPRs alignment. About a quarter of the game is on that wagon, chances are scum are on it.

Slight math fail. In pure odds, there's still a higher chance that there is no scum on the MPR wagon than that there is. I still think there certainly could be at least one, I'm just saying what pure odds state about it.

Lynch Vote: Unvote

Lynch Vote: Kirby

And what the hell..

Town Vote: Fate

And to the "Let's have the vig target someone the town wants, I see pros and cons to that idea. The Pro is that if the vig targets someone else that was not the consensus of the town we have an easy target for a lynch the next day. However the con is that if the mafia know who we are going to vig kill they can swap that person with another so the vig ends up killing someone else (which may end up with a townie dying from vig kill AND then we lynch the vig the next day who may also flip town)

[Pikachu]

[FRIEND]

That last post by tanstalas was pretty weak. I'm starting to question the Kirbyoshi wagon - it's like Nacho said, the quality of the people on it are not good.

[Nachomamma8]

However the con is that if the mafia know who we are going to vig kill they can swap that person with another so the vig ends up killing someone else (which may end up with a townie dying from vig kill AND then we lynch the vig the next day who may also flip town)

Please explain.

And I disagree with having a town directed vig kill. If we trust someone enough for them to be voted town by the majority of the players in the game, then I think we should trust them with the vig kill, as far as early game goes. I think that would be a plan to implement D5, when all the obvtown people begin to clear out/lose the ability to have smash balls.

[tanstalas]

However the con is that if the mafia know who we are going to vig kill they can swap that person with another so the vig ends up killing someone else (which may end up with a townie dying from vig kill AND then we lynch the vig the next day who may also flip town)

Please explain.

And I disagree with having a town directed vig kill. If we trust someone enough for them to be voted town by the majority of the players in the game, then I think we should trust them with the vig kill, as far as early game goes. I think that would be a plan to implement D5, when all the obvtown people begin to clear out/lose the ability to have smash balls.

Bus driver

We tell whoever has the ball to kill person X
Mafia Bus driver swaps person X with Townie A
Vig ends up killing townie A
Town gets pissed next day because vig didn't kill person X and instead kills a townie
Town lynches vig because they killed a townie and find out that vig was a townie as well

Not sure who mods handle night actions here, have not played a game on MS yet that has had a bus driver. I would assume the above would happen unless vig PM's mod with his NK before a bus driver switched people?

If vig put PM to mod before bus driver would, would vig get the NK then the driver just swap the dead body with whoever?

[Pikachu]

[FRIEND]

Why are you assuming there's a bus driver?

[Switz]

Under that thinking, my first vote for lynchering is Switz. diddin's Kirbyoshi contradiction is false. However, the mistake is easily made IMO. Secondly, what scares me more is this line when voting diddin:

Pair that with a lot of FoSes and HoSes without a vote and my eyebrows are raised.

Why mention that others have FOS'd and HOS'd diddin? Why does that sway you to vote someone? This is ucky x11.

Why not mention it? I think it's interesting that a lot of people see diddin as "scummy-but-not-scummy-enough-to-vote-for." And as I recall, a lot of those people are voting Kirby, who I see as a worse choice for a wagon than diddin.

And I agree with Pikachu, the Bus Driver is a really random role possibility to spontaneously pull out for discussion.

[tanstalas]

[FRIEND]

Why are you assuming there's a bus driver?

I'm open to there being anything.

Are you assuming there isn't?

With this many players there is a good chance we could have a bus driver. Even the mod mentioned that there might not be any vanilla roles, as it has happened before..

1. This is an closed setup, which means the only roles you will know in advance are your own and that of any other player I mention in your role PM. All other role information is secret, including how many players with a certain role exist and even if the role exists in the first place.
   Yes, a game with absolutely no vanilla townies is possible. It's been done before.

I hope I didn't break any rules with the above quote?

And in reply to my "weak" reasoning behind voting Yoshi, at least I provided a reason instead of just blindly jumping on the BW like the majority of people did.

[tanstalas]

And I agree with Pikachu, the Bus Driver is a really random role possibility to spontaneously pull out for discussion.

I'm still fairly new to mafia, I know there are a lot of different roles that have kind of the same type of consequences. Also what if the vig targeted the person and the person had a commute ability?

I'm just throwing out possible scenerio's as to why the town shouldn't pick who the vig kills (if he does at all)

[Pikachu]

[AGM]

Mega FoS: tanstalas

I actually thought of the EXACT same argument as you and agree 100% that we should not have town directed kills. There is absolutely NOO way that the mafia does not have a way to counter this ... other wise the town would just have double lynches, which is broken as hell. HOWEVER, playing the newbie card as the response is a TERRIBLE play. Positively screams scum trying to cover tracks.

FATE response later.

[tanstalas]

[AGM]

Mega FoS: tanstalas

I actually thought of the EXACT same argument as you and agree 100% that we should not have town directed kills. There is absolutely NOO way that the mafia does not have a way to counter this ...

other wise the town would just have double lynches, which is broken as hell.

HOWEVER, playing the newbie card as the response is a TERRIBLE play. Positively screams scum trying to cover tracks.

FATE response later.

So, you agree with me, but yet you FoS me, actually "MEGA" FoS me Why wouldn't you just give me the HoS?

I was mentioning my inexperience for NOT knowing all the roles, and similar roles. If you read Switz comment he mentioned that the Bus Driver is a random role to just pluck out of the air for discussion. The reason I said I was new was because I was trying to give an example as to why a town directed vig kill was bad IMO. I picked a role I knew about as nacho asked me to explain my previous post. If I knew all the roles like the back of my hand which could negate the kill I would have listed them as well.

Also something about how you worded the above bolded doesn't sit right with me.. Probably the fact you said "the town" rather than "otherwise we would have double lynches" - I'm probably reading too much into your post, or it was a slip. Either way I like my vote where it stands now, however I am going to give you:

HoS: Pikachu

[Nachomamma8]

Tanstalas is town.

[Pikachu]

[AGM]

@Fate - I have no reason to think OMG YOU ARE OBVTOWN like everybody else does. Especially when this is a SELF-DECLARATION supported by people like Nacho, who loves one liners and not explaining himself and a dude I think is scum.

Soo the only reason I would townvote you right now is because I think you would make a good shot, like you say here:

I'm promising a huge 28 player game that I'll use it in a pro-town matter though. My reputation is at stake, and I won't fail to deliver.

Which is bullshit, because if you are scum and you pull it off, people aren't going to blame you afterwards and say, "OMG U SUCK AS TOWN ... AS SCUM." They'll say, "good play." Not to mention it's not hard to spin a shot on slightly scummy town player as a protown play (while still avoiding shooting scum).

Also, for meta, you don't need to read scumgame. You just cross-reference town game with whether or not you think the player is capable enough to take advantage of that town meta as scum. Relevant facts
-You usually come under fire at some point
-Self-declaring as town is something might do
-Possible scum play is, get the shot by being loud and self-declaring yourself as town, then not shoot scum, people hate you but who cares you stole the shot from town and were probably going to get lynched anyway so oh well.

Again, this doesn't prove you are scum and it isn't even the LIKELY SCENARIO. It is just POSSIBLE. And given that I have no OTHER reason to vote for you as town, why would I?

BUT HEY, WE'RE JUST ONE VOTE. IF YOU GET THE GUN ANYWAY AND SHOOT SCUM, THEN FINE YOU'RE RIGHT AND I'M WRONG.

tl;dr

I have no reason to believe you are town.

[Furry]

Tanstalas is town.

Unless there is a mafia bus driver.

People keep missing the forest for the trees, or is it the other way around, I dont remember. My point is, him bringing up a bus driver messing things up on its own is not suspicious untill you look at it closer. He says that a driver will use it to make the SB user kill a town player over their intented target if we lay out a necessary claim, this assumes that the bus driver is scum. Not that we have a bus driver. I would fully expect either a driver or redirector to be in this game, tans is expecting one that is anti-town. Huge difference. If an anti-town driver ever shows up, tans is probably scum. If not, this is all a null to very slight town tell.

tl;dr

I have no reason to believe you [fate] are town.

TREES FOR THE FOREST (im pretty sure that is right)! THINK HARDER!

Right now good lynches are:

Kirby
MPR
diddin
maybe nacho, need to wait on him a bit more

SB wagons are still

Fate
Pikachu
and the newcomer....

Paltry!!!!

Infact I like Paltry more then pikachu right now, who is missing the trees for the forest and needs to stop being subborn.

untown vote
Town Vote Paltry

There is some complicated theory as to why I would like Fate to not get the SB until N2/N3.

[Pikachu]

[AGM]

TREES FOR THE FOREST (im pretty sure that is right)! THINK HARDER!

WOOSH.

I'm just going to let my other head make the call on this one.

[Zaziesurio]

On second thought, I'l go with a

HoS: Moongoose

, considering he's been warned about his wagoning, he said he was sorry and that he just voted because he thought everyone else was right, and then

he did it again

QFT.

TBQH, my seth vote was more to see who would jump on the bandwagon than anything. Mongoose came out looking the worst for his response to my vote, for reasons SGRaaize beat me to (lol @ people voting someone for the same thing they just did <_<). Gandalf is neutral, MPR comes across as overeager town imo. Also relatively certain SGRaaize is town (though not quite certain enough to feel willing to dole out a townvote yet).

Unlynchvote; Lynch Vote: Mongoose

Tanstalas gives me bad vibes, too. I'm just not sure I buy his apparent confidence that there's a anti-town bus driver stemming from being new rather than from being

aware

that there's an anti-town bus driver. However, Furry's most recent post is probably on the mark and there are certainly bigger fish to fry right now.

FOS: Tanstalas

@Furry: Why is MPR a good lynch?

[The Master Hand]

Lynch count!

MehPlusRawr (4): Bunnylover, Brian Hollywood, seth, Furry
Bunnylover (1): Framm 18
Framm18 (1): Kocc42
Kirbyoshi (7): frayed, Pikachu, MafiaSSK, I doubt it, Chronopie, diddin, tanstalas
mongoose (3): Fate, Kirbyoshi, zaziesurio
MafiaSSK (1): SocioPath
Brain Hollywood (1): Gollum
seth (4): gandalf5166, mongoose, MehPlusRawr, seth
diddin (2): Nachomamma8, Switz
Switz (1): PaltryExcuse

Not voting (3): Everyone else

With 28 alive it's 15 to lynch!

Town votes!

diddin (1):diddin
MehPlusRawr (2): MehPlusRawr, Kocc42
mongoose (1): mongoose
Pikachu (1): Bunnylover
Framm 18 (1): MafiaSSK
Furry (1): frayed
Fate (10): Fate, Nachomamma8, Kirbyoshi, Chronopie, gandalf5166, SGRaaize, SocioPath, manho, Switz, tanstalas
xVEZOKNERx (1): xVEZOKNERx
PaltryExcuse (1): Furry

Noone (9): Everyone else

The deadline for Day 1 is August 21st at 3:43 PM EST! With twenty-eight players, it takes fifteen to lynch! A person receiving a majority in Townie Points will not automatically gain the Smash Ball as soon as they hit majority.

Seth is V/LA until August 3/4th, 2010

mothrax is V/LA until August 4th, 2010

[tanstalas]

On second thought, I'l go with a

HoS: Moongoose

, considering he's been warned about his wagoning, he said he was sorry and that he just voted because he thought everyone else was right, and then

he did it again

QFT.

TBQH, my seth vote was more to see who would jump on the bandwagon than anything. Mongoose came out looking the worst for his response to my vote, for reasons SGRaaize beat me to (lol @ people voting someone for the same thing they just did <_<). Gandalf is neutral, MPR comes across as overeager town imo. Also relatively certain SGRaaize is town (though not quite certain enough to feel willing to dole out a townvote yet).

Unlynchvote; Lynch Vote: Mongoose

Tanstalas gives me bad vibes, too. I'm just not sure I buy his apparent confidence that there's a anti-town bus driver stemming from being new rather than from being

aware

that there's an anti-town bus driver. However, Furry's most recent post is probably on the mark and there are certainly bigger fish to fry right now.

FOS: Tanstalas

@Furry: Why is MPR a good lynch?

You guys make me laugh. You and Furry both.

Stop beating the "OMG if there is a mafia bus driver he must be scum" horse. I already said that was the one of the few roles I knew of that could interfere with the smash ball kill

Seriously, I'm glad now I don't know about other roles as if I had mentioned them and there turned out to be one of those roles that the mafia had I'd be seriously screwed

I never even knew of a role called a "redirector" before you mentioned it Furry, so I guess by your logic - if there turns out to be a redirector and he is mafia then that must mean you are scum? See how stupid that logic is?

However, all this might be good, maybe if I get enough suspicion on me I will be investigated and then you will see that I am pro-town.

Note to all - don't mention what roles mafia may have, because if you do, and it turns out there is one then Furry, Zaziesurio and others with that mentality will probably BW you

[Nachomamma8]

Pikachu. I want you to do an excercise with me.

First, remember THESE three easy facts:
1) Fate has a reputation around these parts of being an effective scumhunter. This means that he won't get lynched D1, it means that he will probably be able to pick out scum faster then the average bear, and it means that there's no excuse if he takes a sloppy shot D1.
2) If Fate is town, he is a likely scumkill D1.
3) Assuming 7 scum (which is a bit ridiculous, IMO), there is a 75% chance of picking a random town player.

Next, let's think of why Fate would be a good choice.
1) His meta suggests he's an effective scumhunter. And when your chances of hitting scum are 25%, you need someone with above-average skills to hit scum.
2) His reputation makes him a good N1 kill. Giving him the smash ball would guarantee him another night.
3) If he is scum, it's too early in the game for him to wreak any real havoc (no 1 for 1s for claimed PRs, no killing confirmed towns).

Now, think of why Fate is a bad choice.
1) He might be scum, and he might shoot town? Wait, his reputation suggests he doesn't get lynched early, which means that he would be a valuable part of the scumteam, meaning he would only shoot scummy townies. And if he did shoot a scummy townie, it wouldn't be that much of a loss, so that really doesn't work.
2) I have no reason to believe he's town. But then again, it's early game, so I could just take away my town vote if he acted scummy...

Finally, take a deep breath, and count to 10. Then vote Fate for town.

Furry, Zaziesurio: I think that Tan is town, regardless of if there is a scum busdriver or not. If there was a scum busdriver in the scumgroup, I would think that they had already discussed that it'd be to their best advantage if they could get smash ball recipients to announce their targets beforehand. I think it's also worthy to note that the only role on the wiki that could mess with the smash ball mechanic IS bus driver, which shows that he thought about the plan Paltry brought up, looked to see how it could be bad, and responded accordingly. I'd more quickly call Tan scum if the mafia DIDN'T have a defense to the double lynch plan because then he would actually have a motive for bringing that up...

Addendum: His recent post makes me feel less confident, though. He seems frustrated, which is normal, whatever, but the randomly placed emoticons are... unsettling.

[Pikachu]

[AGM]

ARHGHHHHHRUGHREUWAIRUGHspojdask;lqwresdoksc.

FINE.

MY EXPECTATIONS ARE HIGH. THIS MOVE HAD BETTER NOT MAKE ME DISSAPOINT.

Town Vote: Fate