[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ok I have a briliant IDEA!!!!!
14 are People required

• Town has
  2 town
  1 Vigilanty
  1 cop
  1 doctor(the reason for both cop and doc is because there is an SK and a Mafia killer a follow the cop strategy won't work.)
  1 nurse
  1 Day doctor(during the night he pm's the mod the name of a person, it has no effects during the night, but if both the doctor and his patient survive the night if his patient gets lynched the next day, he is saved and night starts)
  They win when Mafia and Crazies are gone.
  
  Crazy people consist of
  1 SK
  1 Brain washed body gaurd(knows who the SK is and each night has an opertunity to save the SK, but if the SK wasn't being attacked the Gaurd dies if SK dies he becomes SK)
  They win when it is only them alive,
  
  Mafia consists of
  1 Head of Mafia(Kills one person each night)
  1 Crooked Cop( same as cop but works for Mafia, Knows who real cop is but the only mafia member he knows is the Head Mafia man)
  1 Roleblocker
  1 Bodygaurd(Mafia Doctor, can save one person, but not himself)
  1 Suicide bomber( sililar to a PGO, if this player gets lynched during the day the person who hammered get blown up and dies, but nothing happens if he is night killed.)
  They win when only them remain

Ok thats my game please nominate if you like it.

[drmyshottyizsik]

^^Trinomic Mafia

[Andrius]

Ok I have a briliant IDEA!!!!!
14 are People required

• Town has
  2 town
  1 Vigilanty
  1 cop
  1 doctor(the reason for both cop and doc is because there is an SK and a Mafia killer a follow the cop strategy won't work.)
  1 nurse
  1 Day doctor(during the night he pm's the mod the name of a person, it has no effects during the night, but if both the doctor and his patient survive the night if his patient gets lynched the next day, he is saved and night starts)
  They win when Mafia and Crazies are gone.
  
  Crazy people consist of
  1 SK
  1 Brain washed body gaurd(knows who the SK is and each night has an opertunity to save the SK, but if the SK wasn't being attacked the Gaurd dies if SK dies he becomes SK)
  They win when it is only them alive,
  
  Mafia consists of
  1 Head of Mafia(Kills one person each night)
  1 Crooked Cop( same as cop but works for Mafia, Knows who real cop is but the only mafia member he knows is the Head Mafia man)
  1 Roleblocker
  1 Bodygaurd(Mafia Doctor, can save one person, but not himself)
  1 Suicide bomber( sililar to a PGO, if this player gets lynched during the day the person who hammered get blown up and dies, but nothing happens if he is night killed.)
  They win when only them remain

Ok thats my game please nominate if you like it.

Day Doctor is useless. He basically saves someone from a lynch, but its a bad town role, because he'd be saving someone the town wants DEAD.

Drop the SK-Bodyguard. He's useless; how does the BG become SK if he is constantly protecting the SK? Make the SK some type of BP and drop BG.

Crooked Cop is broken. He's a mafia member who knows who the good Cop is? Can you say insta-N1 kill?

Suicide Bomber is essentially a Mafia Supersaint. Which has the potential to DESTROY balance in this game. 3 NKs and a Mafia SuperSaint?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Good first point, but I disagree we the second. He becomes SK if SK is lynched or night killed. He doesn't have protect him because if he does, but the SK wasn't being killed then he dies. Good third point he should be a private investigator instead, still only knows who head of the mafia is though, and cant use QT. The other thing is, that the mafia wouldn't know who the PI is. DD should just become a second doctor. And the other thing is that you still NK the SB.
Would it work with the above edits?

[Andrius]

Good first point, but I disagree we the second. He becomes SK if SK is lynched or night killed. He doesn't have protect him because if he does, but the SK wasn't being killed then he dies. Good third point he should be a private investigator instead, still only knows who head of the mafia is though, and cant use QT. The other thing is, that the mafia wouldn't know who the PI is. DD should just become a second doctor. And the other thing is that you still NK the SB.
Would it work with the above edits?

The whole point of being a Serial Killer is to be alone. What you have is- essentially a 2nd mafia faction with a Suicidal Mafioso (has to make the kill or he dies) and a Mafia Bodyguard protecting him.

Private Investigator is still semi-useless. The GF would tell him the other mafioso, and the mafioso would know who he is. You can't really stop that from happening. Either make him a full Mafia Traitor or just a Goon.

[drmyshottyizsik]

ok ill make him a MT

[Andrius]

Revised:

Town has
2 town
1 Vig
1 cop
2 doctor
1 nurse

Crazy people consist of
1 Suicidal Maf.
1 Maf. Bodyguard

Mafia consists of
1 Godfather
1 Maf. RB
1 Maf. Bodyguard
1 Maf. Suicide Bomber
1 Maf. Traitor

New problem: Mafia is too strong. Period. The larger mafia needs to lose like... 3 members, or you add LOADS of townies.

A mislynch D1 means town loses.

There are 3 NKs and 2 Docs. Town cannot win. Period. This setup probably needs to get cann'd and revised majorly if you want to see it actually played.

Of all the problems this setup has, this is the biggest: there are 14 players. 7 are town. 7 are not. It all boils down to that. Even if they were all VTs and Maf. Goons, it would be HELL for the town.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Take out the traitor and out in one more VT and a this, I had an idea for a character called a biochemist and something like that and each night he can chose ine player to suddate and that person is in active for the following day but cant be lynched, if you want his night ability, if present can be cancled too. If you dont like that I could just add 2 vts

[Andrius]

Take out the traitor and out in one more VT and a this, I had an idea for a character called a biochemist and something like that and each night he can chose ine player to suddate and that person is in active for the following day but cant be lynched, if you want his night ability, if present can be cancled too. If you dont like that I could just add 2 vts

You have to drop anti-town players. Town cannot last more than 1 cycle in the current setup.

Even if you added 2 VTs and dropped the Maf. Traitor, you're still looking at 3 NKs and a lynch each cycle. That's 4 kills.
You'd have a total of 15 players. 9 town 6 anti-town. With 4 kills the big mafia can easily overtake the town.

You have to understand that with 16 players in a game, there can be no more than 4 anti-town players without SEVERE town power.

[drmyshottyizsik]

4 doctors?

[Andrius]

4 doctors?

You'd have to elaborate on how you'd put them into the setup. Whether they'd be new slots or old slots converted into Docs.

You should probably practice making smaller, less powerful setups, and then go up from there. The first setup I designed (for fun) was a 24 player game based on The Godfather with two rival mafia factions that started out with 6 members each and they could both recruit 3 members from a pool. (Only later did I figure out that alignment-changing roles were bastard.)

[drmyshottyizsik]

All doctors would start active

[Andrius]

All doctors would start active

Not what I meant.

In this "game" here, post all the town roles plzkthx.

I'll teach you game design and balance for a little while longer.

[drmyshottyizsik]

4 doctors
2 nurses
1 vig
1 cop

[Andrius]

You're still looking at 8 v. 6.

4 Doctors is insane, BTW. That's a shit-load of protections going around, not counting the Nurses (Like you need those?) and the Maf. Bodyguards.

Worst case scenario 1: Town is DESTROYED by D2. Mis-lynch D1. Happens in most games. N1 there are 3 kills going around. If all 3 kills hit townies, GAME OVER. Large_Mafia wins.
Worst case scenario 2: Doctors are psychics and block ALL kills ALL THE TIME. Game gets old, stale.

Now you may say that the 4 protections will block out the 3 NKs. Even if only one kill connects, on a townie, then its 6 v 6. Hardly fair for the town. Another mislynch = GAME OVER.

Most games operate under the premise of: town loses if they mislynch twice. With your game, town can lose if they mislynch ONCE. (Hell, if town No Lynches they can lose.)

This setup has major holes, and cannot be run as is. With MAJOR modifications it could work. Basically, you have too many Docs, not enough townies (VTs and overall Ts), a doomed mafia faction and a mafia that is too large and powerful for the town to compete.

[drmyshottyizsik]

drop the crazies?

[drmyshottyizsik]

also take out the nurses and make them VT
Take two of the docs and make them a deputy and a PGO?

[Andrius]

Dropping crazies would help.
Nurses to VTs would help too.

Deputy is not needed. You still have 4 Docs.
NO PGO. NO NO NO. With the majority of your town as PRs? You're

asking

for a massacre with a PGO.

How about:
2 Docs
1 Cop
1 Vigilante
5 VTs

Mafia Godfather
Mafia Bodyguard
Mafia Roleblocker

Much simpler, better, more balanced setup than the chaos at the top of the page.

[drmyshottyizsik]

ok one last change, but the suicide bomber back in and add one more VT

[Andrius]

2 Docs
1 Cop
1 Vigilante
6 VTs

Mafia Godfather
Mafia Bodyguard
Mafia Roleblocker
Mafia Suicide Bomber

Meh. I'm too tired ATM, but it still seems unbalanced. I personally don't like the Suicide Bomber. :/
Going to go finish killing some Tattaglias in The Godfather then I'm off to bed.

[Andrius]

And sorry for taking up the better part of page 64 with me trying to fix a semi-impossible setup, everyone else. >_>
At least I was nicer than some people would have been. lol

[Mr. Flay]

Andrius, you have the patience of a (Super)Saint.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Yes he does. Thank you

[Andrius]

Andrius, you have the patience of a (Super)Saint.

lol Thanks Flay. /good deed for the day

[bv310]

What about removing the Bodyguard and the Bomber, and replace them with a Goon or a Mafia Martyr (can die in place of another scum member), and cut the number of scum to 3? That way, it'd be 10-3. with two kills per night. The extra doc may or may not be necessary, maybe replace one with a Nurse.

I actually kind of like the idea of a Mafia Bomb. It swings the balance more in favour of the scum though, so it might be too overpowered.

So this way it'd be:
1 or 2 Docs
0 or 1 Nurses
1 Cop
1 Vig
5 VT

1 Mafia GF
1 of: Mafia RB or Mafia Goon
1 of: Mafia Bomb, Mafia Martyr, or Mafia Goon

This way, if all kills go through and mislynches every day phase, the ratio goes

D1: 10-3
N1: 9-3
D2: 7-3
N2: 6-3
D3: 4-3 (Lylo)

At least this way is a bit more balanced.