A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Benmage]

Anyway, I am Ser Davos Seaworth, Innocent Aligned. I'm an ONION KNIGHT. I have no idea what that is or why it's capitalized.

Hello modkill

[Unsight]

Anyway, I am Ser Davos Seaworth, Innocent Aligned. I'm an ONION KNIGHT. I have no idea what that is or why it's capitalized.

Hello modkill

I don't understand why that would be a modkill. I'm paraphrasing my PM.

[Unsight]

And why are you even hinting that I should be modkilled? That, in itself, is scummy as hell.

[Thor665]

3rd option: He's lying about his kills.

ScumSSBF: Swiggity sweet, I'mma lie about my kills by claiming that i'mma Vig and then town won't kil me!
Town: You're the Vig who has killed scum twice? We LUVS you, no lynch today!
ScumSSBF: Yaaays! Imma da smartest and the bestest scum evah!

Later that night

Real Vig: Kill: SSBF, I'm the bestester Vig evah!

Next Day

Town: Yaaaay, we LUVS the Vig!

@Unsight: Seriously?

[Unsight]

@Unsight: Seriously?

Yep. Think about it. At worst, it forces the scum to use their night kill on him. At best, the scum don't kill him or he has some protection against NK's.

[Thor665]

1. He's scum and is part of the team that hacks stuff - we now control an entire team's kill targets and as soon as we lynch part of this hidden third team then we know SSBF is scum - win for town.
2. He's scum and isn't part of the team that hacks stuff - that team now controls when/if SSBF is lynched and they don't like him very much and have no reason to protect him - win for town.
3. he's unkillable at night and is a SK - we already suspect this as a possibility, and it has little to do with you calling him scum

Maybe I'm being dense, but I just don't follow the logic. What am I missing?

[Unsight]

1. He's scum and is part of the team that hacks stuff - we now control an entire team's kill targets and as soon as we lynch part of this hidden third team then we know SSBF is scum - win for town.
2. He's scum and isn't part of the team that hacks stuff - that team now controls when/if SSBF is lynched and they don't like him very much and have no reason to protect him - win for town.
3. he's unkillable at night and is a SK - we already suspect this as a possibility, and it has little to do with you calling him scum

Maybe I'm being dense, but I just don't follow the logic. What am I missing?

I don't like relying on scum to kill scum. Relying on the wolf to eat the fox and protect the chicken just gives the wolf a two-course meal. Plus if I'm right about my Macavitar/SSBF theory then that's two dead scum back to back.

Either way, I shouldn't be lynched because I'm pro-town.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

A question to everyone: Has anyone been in a three scum faction game? I just can't see it being a possibility in this game, especially considering that Night 1 and Night 2 kills had at least one dead scums and a Vigilante claim claimed to kill both people.

@Unsight: Given that a third scum faction is very unlikely, why would you think a Greyjoy/Lannister would kill one Greyjoy and one Lannister back-to-back and actually plan on killing another scum tonight if CSL doesn't get through the noose today (Or hasdgfas, depending if cop investigation turns up guilty)?

[Unsight]

A question to everyone: Has anyone been in a three scum faction game? I just can't see it being a possibility in this game, especially considering that Night 1 and Night 2 kills had at least one dead scums and a Vigilante claim claimed to kill both people.

@Unsight: Given that a third scum faction is very unlikely, why would you think a Greyjoy/Lannister would kill one Greyjoy and one Lannister back-to-back and actually plan on killing another scum tonight if CSL doesn't get through the noose today (Or hasdgfas, depending if cop investigation turns up guilty)?

You mean lie about it? To possibly live longer or at least force the other scum team to use their night kill on them.

[diddin]

If there were 2 scumteams it would probably have to be 2-2-2, and I honestly doubt we've already eliminated two scumteams. Correct my math if it is incorrect.

[diddin]

EBWOP yeah I mean 3 scumteams

[xvart]

Sorry again, peeps. I have been having a difficult time with this game due to my mild pain killers that have been dulling me down and having a hard time focusing on the multi-scum facet of this game, plus the large numbers.

This is mostly gut and partly based off of who is voting what.

Thor - could you explain what you mean by "based off of who is voting what"? I don't understand the context.

OMGUS is lame. I called you on being scum with SSBF day 1 and you're pushing my lynch harder than ever since SSBF was gathering votes proving the point so I have a better idea--lynch SSBF and his faketastic claim and lynch you when he flips scum.

Maybe I'm not seeing it, but this seems far fetched seeing as how there is little to suggest there is an entire third scum faction. The flavor suggests two: poisoning and drowning, both indicative of flipped scum. Hacked to pieces is certainly not flavorized to one of the main king forces in the books. I'm starting to think since you are pushing this third scum team so hard that you are just trying to appear to be scumhunting. I support the Unsight wagon and will vote once Mina gets the N2 paraphrase down.

I'm getting a little frustrated at the delay in the Kingsgaurd N2 QT. Especially considering there is apparently "juicy" stuff in it I think it would be good to have for consideration. The lack of it being posted is starting to appear scummy in my eyes. Cow - do you know what Mina was referring to with the juicy comment?

Unvote
Vote: Mina

I'll think about it. migwelloni was scummy and Kinetic did little to recitify that. diddin sounds towny, but I need to re-read his ISO to see if he's a good lynch or not.

Further evidence that SSBF is not innocent aligned.

Regardless of the lazy votes on Unsight, it's still not a bad lynch. The people who concern me are CSL, vezo and diddin, but all of them are probably not scum. At most I'd say two. So, meh.

I would support a miku lynch today still if people really aren't going to get behind Unsight. Or we could lynch one of the above three and let SSBF vig one out of the remaining two.

wtf? I can't make heads or tails out of this post in terms of your priorities. Unsight isn't a bad lynch but you don't sound convinced; yet you would support a miku lynch if the Unsight wagon fails? Sounds like you are just fencesitting for any possibility.

Unsightplease claim. If not I am voting you.

Vezo, you're already voting Unsight.

lulz.

1. He's scum and is part of the team that hacks stuff - we now control an entire team's kill targets and as soon as we lynch part of this hidden third team then we know SSBF is scum - win for town.
2. He's scum and isn't part of the team that hacks stuff - that team now controls when/if SSBF is lynched and they don't like him very much and have no reason to protect him - win for town.
3. he's unkillable at night and is a SK - we already suspect this as a possibility, and it has little to do with you calling him scum

Maybe I'm being dense, but I just don't follow the logic. What am I missing?

This is the best explanation I've seen for keeping SSBF alive. Despite my previous hesitations, I'm on board with this plan now.

xvart.

[Thor665]

This is mostly gut and partly based off of who is voting what.

Thor - could you explain what you mean by "based off of who is voting what"? I don't understand the context.

I don't feel like going back and looking, but as I recall basically both CSL and vezo were voting for Unsight at that time and formed half the wagon, and people were talking like it was the runaway win wagon of the day. I didn't like having the wagon of the day 50% dictated by ruddy vezo's and CSL's lynch preference. Meanwhile Locke was on the Rifka wagon alone. I had said I had uneasy reads on both Rifka and Unsight - I chose Rifka partly because of who was voting for what lynch between those two wagons.

[Locke Lamora]

Unsight: we're not relying on scum to kill scum. We're letting SSBF live for now so he can dispose of targets we approve of, then we'll lynch him if we have to. What we know for sure is that whoever is doing the 'hacking', they're not a Lannister or a Greyjoy. I think by far the most likely possibility is he's SK, he screwed up his claim because he didn't really understand that Arya is a 10-year-old girl and now he has no choice but to stick with it. If SSBF isn't killing at all and there's a real town-aligned night vig, he'll die. If scum spend a roleblock on him to make him look guilty, they've used up a block and he'll die. If SSBF eliminates scum or a useless town player, it's a bonus for the town and we still retain the option of lynching him at any time. If scum want to jeopardise their chances of winning this game by leaving a claimed town-directed killing role alive, they can be my guest.

Rifka: do you not think it's strange to apologise for annoying Benmage by asking for a case he promised ages ago? I would have thought that the main motivation for saying that (as opposed to something like "Hey Benmage, why don't you do some scumhunting and produce that case) was to avoid Benmage going after you. Seems scummy to me.

Unvote; Vote Rifka

No problem with lynching Unsight's claim. I can see scum wanting to get an SK out of the way but I can also see a townie being concerned about it, albeit unnecessarily, in my opinion. In general her reactions to the imminent lynch read a little town to me, but as it's not quite inevitable at this stage I won't put too much stock in that.

SSBF: why CSL over Vezo? Vezo threatened to vote Unsight when he already was, for crying out loud.

[Macavitar]

wtf? I can't make heads or tails out of this post in terms of your priorities. Unsight isn't a bad lynch but you don't sound convinced; yet you would support a miku lynch if the Unsight wagon fails? Sounds like you are just fencesitting for any possibility.

lol, wut? I'm "fencesitting for any possibility" by stating that Thor's opposition to the Unsight wagon isn't all that founded and by saying that if the Unsight wagon were to fall apart, I'd still support the wagon of my other top suspects? That makes absolutely no sense. Additionally, my vote hasn't moved. Your comment is a pretty ridiculous reach of the imagination by any means.

I didn't like having the wagon of the day 50% dictated by ruddy vezo's and CSL's lynch preference.

How was (or is) the wagon dictated 50% by those knuckleheads?

No problem with lynching Unsight's claim. I can see scum wanting to get an SK out of the way but I can also see a townie being concerned about it, albeit unnecessarily, in my opinion. In general her reactions to the imminent lynch read a little town to me, but as it's not quite inevitable at this stage I won't put too much stock in that.

But that's not really his reaction, is it? Unsight wants to lynch SSBF because he is somehow buddies with us in the 3rd, magically unrevealed scum team. It's scum malarkey.

[Rifka Viveka]

Rifka: do you not think it's strange to apologise for annoying Benmage by asking for a case he promised ages ago? I would have thought that the main motivation for saying that (as opposed to something like "Hey Benmage, why don't you do some scumhunting and produce that case) was to avoid Benmage going after you. Seems scummy to me.

You just keep pinballing between one thing or another, and its never going to fit cause there simply isnt anything of emotional depth behind the comment. It certainly wasnt intended, nor was it, an apology. I dont make apologies...

Your proposed alternative that i say, is far more aggressive and accusing in a way i wouldnt have intended at that time.

Im going to vote for unsight pending votecount, i think its l2 but not sure

[CSL]

L-3. I unvoted to ensure Mina posts her big post she promised us. :/

[Eddard Stark]

Votecount 3.16 The '

A ruler who hides behind paid executioners soon forgets what death is.

' votecount.

Super Smash Bros. Fan (3) -

Unsight, Hasdgfas, Mikujin

Unsight (6)

MagnaOfIllusion, Macavitar, RichardGHP, Benmage, Vezokpiraka, Diddin

Rifka Viveka (2)

Thor665, Locke Lamora

CSL (1)

Super Smash Bros. Fan

Mikujin (1)

Rifka Viveka

Mina (1)

xvart

Not Voting (3)-

Axelrod, Mina, CSL

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline for today is Wednesday August 11th @ 6:30 EST. here

[Thor665]

I didn't like having the wagon of the day 50% dictated by ruddy vezo's and CSL's lynch preference.

How was (or is) the wagon dictated 50% by those knuckleheads?

As I said in the post you quoted from, there was a point they were 50% of the votes on the wagon. I believe wagons start to gain momentum and credibility as votes accrue. Hence, by the addition of their votes at that time it gave a credit boost to the Unsight wagon at a critical juncture.

[Thor665]

L-3. I unvoted to ensure Mina posts her big post she promised us. :/

I apologize for the spamminess, Thor am dumb, but;

YO MINA!!! This is relevant.

[MagnaofIllusion]

L-3. I unvoted to ensure Mina posts her big post she promised us. :/

I apologize for the spamminess, Thor am dumb, but;

YO MINA!!! This is relevant.

I agree it is relevant but my question about this is such -

Why isn't Cow doing it? I know Mina has promised to do so but Cow has access to the same information. If it is important (and I think it is) for the genaral population to have access to a summary of the Kingsguard Day 2 both players who have access should be providing it, if they are Innocent. I understand the concept of duplication of work but the minute the first person posts a summary the second doesn't have to expend the effort.

Especially in light of Cow's impending reveal I can't see any reason if he is Innocent that he shouldn't be forwarding the information also.

[xvart]

This is mostly gut and partly based off of who is voting what.

Thor - could you explain what you mean by "based off of who is voting what"? I don't understand the context.

I don't feel like going back and looking, but as I recall basically both CSL and vezo were voting for Unsight at that time and formed half the wagon, and people were talking like it was the runaway win wagon of the day. I didn't like having the wagon of the day 50% dictated by ruddy vezo's and CSL's lynch preference. Meanwhile Locke was on the Rifka wagon alone. I had said I had uneasy reads on both Rifka and Unsight - I chose Rifka partly because of who was voting for what lynch between those two wagons.

Thanks; that makes sense. The way it was phrased (voting what) was confusing to me because it gave me the impression that people voting for someone other than Unsight had something to do with it, too; and I wanted to know what that was.

wtf? I can't make heads or tails out of this post in terms of your priorities. Unsight isn't a bad lynch but you don't sound convinced; yet you would support a miku lynch if the Unsight wagon fails? Sounds like you are just fencesitting for any possibility.

lol, wut? I'm "fencesitting for any possibility" by stating that Thor's opposition to the Unsight wagon isn't all that founded and by saying that if the Unsight wagon were to fall apart, I'd still support the wagon of my other top suspects? That makes absolutely no sense. Additionally, my vote hasn't moved. Your comment is a pretty ridiculous reach of the imagination by any means.

Perhaps fencesitting was not an accurate description. I was more interested in what I perceived as confusion in priorities. You said there were lazy votes on Unsight, but the lynch would be okay. It seems you are suspicious of the lazy votes, but don't mind going forward anyway (you didn't question any of the lazy votes). Then you say if the mediocre wagon of laziness doesn't go through you will support a lynch on Miku. I just got the impression that you were going for any of the possible wagons and setting them up as failures since there was little conviction.

xvart.

[Mina]

Sorry, guys, I've been L/A for the past few days and have only been casually checking my games on my phone. I've also had computer problems.

I don't have time to catch up with the thread right now, and I've fallen horribly behind on this game. (I see Unsight has claimed, and there's a huge kerfuffle around that.)

But now that my computer problems are finished, I can post what I'd written of the QT paraphrase. But I didn't finish it. I worked on it a bit more today up until the Cow "overdefensive" comment so you'd know what I was talking about.

This was horribly tedious. As always, Cow, correct me if I'm missing or misstating something.

Night Two in the

Hippie Commune

White Tower

1)

DrippingGoofball

spams the QT a bit with several short posts. She says hi, and congratulates everyone on the dana lynch. She says that in her opinion, dana wasn't that scummy, so she thinks he was bussed. She looks at the danakillsu wagon and says that one of the last four (Benmage, MagnaofIllusion, Unsight, Rifka Viveka) is scum, and she's sure there's more on the wagon.

She also speculates that Locke is scum, because his only reason to claim to have stabbed Kinetic was distancing. (In hindsight, Locke's choice makes sense.) She says that one of the three on the CSL wagon (Percy, Mina, SSBF) may be scum. She thinks that since dana is scum, there must be a lot of scum on the CSL stabbing wagon. (She gives Percy, Rifka and MagnaofIllusion as examples.)

2)

Cow

apologizes for his lack of posting day two. He says Day Three will be better. He is only slightly surprised by the dana flip; Cow found him scummy, but thought SSBF was worse. He says that he wants to lynch SSBF if SSBF isn't killed tonight.

3)

LynchMePls

says that accusing CSL-stabbers of being scum because of dana's flip is "baloney," because CSL was obviously the best stab choice because of his claim. All we'd lose was making him a non-voter for one day if he was town, while we'd neutralize a scum power role if he'd lied. He tells Cow that he didn't have any problem with his posting. He then asks me what I make of the dana flip.

4)

Percy

disagrees with DGB vehemently on looking at the dana wagon for scum, in very strong terms. He says the best place to look for Lannisters based on voting analysis would be in the early SSBF wagoners (hasdgfas, I Doubt it, Unsight, CSL, Rifka Viveka, MacavityLock). He then says that Drippereth is a likely Lannister.

He asks her why she thinks there's scum on the CSL wagon. He explains the logic of stabbing CSL again, then says he asked people in the thread about their stab choices because everyone should have been stabbing CSL (except for those with strong suspicions of other players).

(Gah, if this were anyone but Percy, I'd rule out CSL as a Greyjoy based on how strongly he goes on about looking for connections and CSL being the best stab target. But damn him and his crafty distancing! I still think something was off in his ranking of SSBF and CSL. Still, I'm starting to think CSL is more likely a Lannister than a Greyjoy if he's scum.)

He wants to reread the game over the night and says that he's very interested in the danakillsu case, because he came out with it in the beginning of the day, so it must have put a lot of pressure on the Lannisters even though it relied on dana's Raivann interactions.

Interestingly, he thinks early danakillsu voters have a higher chance of being Greyjoy. (

My brain is spinning in circles of WIFOM right now--does that clear or condemn the early voters?

)

He says he'll be very, very interested in hearing my reaction to dana's flip, because of how I dismissed the dana case and tried so hard to shift people from dana to CSL.

5)

DrippingGoofball

spams it up some more:

-She says it's significant that the leading wagon was dana (scum), but CSL got more stab votes (a choice that would also get a lot of stabs and look protown). Drippereth didn't get a stab vote in on time, which means CSL reached majority before everyone had voted.

-She prefers the dana-was-bussed to the late wagon theory, because there's always scum distancing early and jumping late on the wagon to buy town cred.

-DGB says re: the CSL wagon that scum rarely pile on the same wagon, and CSL was an easy wagon to get going.

-Finally, she compares the early SSBF voters (hasdgfas, I Doubt it, Unsight, CSL, Rifka Viveka, MacavityLock) to the late dana voters (Vezokpiraka, Benmage, MagnaofIllusion, Unsight, Rifka Viveka). She finds it significant that Unsight and Rifka belong to both sets.

6)

Ellibereth

checks in.

7) I (

Mina

) post a wall. I say that I didn't have time to write a big response after I left the thread on Saturday (although I was checking it), but the gist of my response to LMP's post bashing my vezokpiraka vote would have been that the vig is probably dead, CSL being stabbed doesn't have anything to do with who gets lynched today, and dana hadn't exactly claimed scum. I then eat a lot of crow and scrap the self-righteous lecture about tunnel vision I'd planned to give LMP and Percy after dana flipped town. I say the reason I said before that I'm better at looking townish as either alignment than catching scum because these kinds of embarrassments happen to me all the time. To salvage my pride, I say that I was right that dana didn't make sense as a Raivann buddy. I predict that I'll come under a lot of heat tomorrow for my dana defence.

I ask people how much they'd like to hear about my suspicions. I want to go through the thread and rate every player on their likelihood of being either a Lannister or a Greyjoy. (Yeah...that reminds me....) But I'm worried that there might be scum in our kingsguard QT, and I doubt I'll be nightkilled after how I linked myself to dana, so I should save it for the game thread tomorrow.

I look for validation for my Benmage suspicions, and ask everyone if they think I'm imagining that Benmage is deliberately throwing irrelevant questions at his attackers to distract them (as I've falsely attributed ulterior motives to unusual/antitown play before). I call 90% of his spamfest after pressure headed his way fluffy crap, but say it's a pain to point out every time he's stalling or contradicting himself. I warn that he's in trouble tomorrow, because I was the wrong person to try to bully. I debate how best to make a case on him without wall-posting or spamming the thread with white noise. (If Benmage didn't like

Night One

of the QT....)

Lastly, I say that I'm pretty sure Raivann's team killed jvw--and not only because I think Raivann was the Lannisters' kill. I say that although Raivann

could

have been trying to indoctrinate a buddy into the Kingsguard, it's far more likely that we helpfully advised the Greyjoys into killing jvw instead of xvart.

In my next post, I misunderstand Percy's point that he wanted to look at the early dana voters for Greyjoy to mean that he wanted to look at the voters

for Greyjoy

. It occurred to me at the time (although not very seriously at the time) that it might be a slip. But I don't think we can draw any conclusions from this.

I ask DGB if she's saying

she

wouldn't have stabbed CSL. I say scum could have easily claimed to have stabbed CSL but targeted a potential power role. I suggest that although it might be useful to look the CSL stab mob to see if he had a super-majority before the thread re-opened, that time would be better spend analyzing the actual lynch mobs. Lastly, I find it funny that CSL's VT claim was actually

pro

-town.

8)

DGB

apparently missed the fact that the stabbing takes away a player's power role for the rest of the game. She says the hydra discussed stabbing CSL, since they didn't suspect dana...but that he's not a player who needs to be neutralized in a bad way. And taking a vote away from a VT was kind of cruel. Now she's dead, so it doesn't matter, but that raised an alarm bell at the time. Using typical DGB logic, she says in response to my comment about getting heat for the dana lynch that if she'd suspected me of being scum, it would be for the other scumteam.

9)

LMP

says in response to DGB's "Unsight and Rifka belong to BOTH SETS!" that he has a town read on Unsight, because her attack on him felt like genuine scumhunting, although he was annoyed by her refusal to answer questions. He says that Rifka is a null read. In response to my comment that I think there may be scum in the Kingsguard, he says he feels ashamed of inviting Raivann into the Kingsguard (note to LMP in his grave: I think it was a perfectly good choice at the time), and that we should just be careful not to reveal any extra information or role claim.

He agrees with me that Benmage's play is troubling and that the Greyjoys were probably behind the JVW kill. Corrects my mistake on Greyjoy. Takes my question about CSL being protown at face value, and says the odds are about 50-50 that he's town. Addressing those of us who want to lynch vezo because the vig might be gone, says he thinks we shouldn't lynch vezo until later, because vezo-scum isn't a threat. Asks Percy and Cow when they think we should lynch vezo.

10)

DGB

says that she wants vezo lynched for his flip and connections, and isn't hoping for a vig.

11)

Cow

says he doesn't know his read on vezo, but we should lynch him soon if we do it at all. He then tells Percy that Cow thought SSBF was scum since he showed up in the game and SSBF is his top suspect. And tells Percy to feel free to look at him as scum for voting for his top read, but it won't stop him from voting for SSBF early again. (Not the exact wording, because I'm trying to paraphrase.)

This is the Cow "overdefensive" comment, so I'll stop here for now since I'm short on time. (

I hated this at the time because Percy had not even singled out Cow personally, just listed six players that were more likely to be Lannisters if one did voting analysis. It felt as though Cow was protesting way too much. He also hadn't commented on anything else that had gone down in the QT.

)

To be continued.

There's still a page and a bit to go. There's some hilarious Percy-DGB interaction, and I end the night with comments that are cringeworthy to paraphrase after DGB's and Percy's respective flips.

[CSL]

I'm putting my vote back on Unsight sometime before deadline.

[Benmage]

Anyway, I am Ser Davos Seaworth, Innocent Aligned. I'm an ONION KNIGHT. I have no idea what that is or why it's capitalized.

Hello modkill

I don't understand why that would be a modkill. I'm paraphrasing my PM.

Talking about how its capitalized, seems like a direct quote. If I'm mistaken sure. But than again we were warned several times about quoting pms too much.