A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[Axelrod]

Well, I haven't reviewed Rifka at all, so I can't really weigh in on that one. I will try to do so tomorrow.

[Unsight]

Well I'm still alive, but L-2 with no other viable lynches in sight means only one thing.

FWIW, here are my reads:

1) Xvart
2) Mina
4)

MacavityLock

6)

Unsight

7)

Thor665

8) Benmage
9)

Axelrod

10)

Super Smash Bros. Fan

13)

Vezokpiraka

14) Locke Lamora
15)

Mikujin

18) diddin
19)

CSL

20) Rifka Viveka
23)

RichardGHP

24) hasdgfas
25)

MagnaOfIllusion

I probably have one too many scum in that list (assuming 4 to a team), but that's what I'm thinking. At very least I'll hopefully be able to say "told ya so" post game.

[Thor665]

Can someone point me to the Rifka case? I do not remember seeing it.

Personally I don't think there is a Rifka case (not that I've really seen an Unsight case either)

Looking back I'd say for me it sums up thusly;
gut
lighting a candle for herself for odd reasons
issues around Percy and SSBF
Who helped push the Unsight wagon vs. Rifka wagon (though Macivitar had to go and spoil my milk here slightly)
and a bit more gut as a coward's way to make this list appear larger.

With Unsight I think it boils down to roughly the same (though her SSBF is third scum team spiel was especially headdesk worthy). I'm mostly bewildered why the one wagon has so much attention and the other so little. I consider the scumminess of the two slots functionally equivalent and so I don't really find Unsight any less scummy then Rifka and I don't grok why Unsight is *more* scummy which presumably most of the people voting Unsight do believe.

[Benmage]

See I see the Unsight Lynch as the next necessary step. Rifka may yet hang, but not today.

[Thor665]

This is because you think the visible connections from Unsight are more exploitable for info then the connections from Rifka?

[Benmage]

This is because you think the visible connections from Unsight are more exploitable for info then the connections from Rifka?

At this point we can just roll with that'll be an easier Lynch, as you've stated they are both equally scummy, and for all the people I disliked on the wagon there were also some I disliked off it.

[Locke Lamora]

Unsight: you do know that one of your scum reads is gearing up to vig the other, right? Doesn't this invalidate your concerns about scum cross-killing?

[MagnaofIllusion]

vote: unsight

Running out of time.

Are you going to be V/LA for the next 36 hours or so? Unless that’s the case I don’t see how this meshes well with your grand “Not until Mina posts” move you did earlier. That’s looking more like a poor attempt to earn Town cred.

I'm with Locke on this one - I really don't see why or how Unsight became the wagon of win. I see as much of a case on Rifka as her, and no one is even talking Rifka. I've been suspecting both slots for a while and for each of them I'm basically a muddle of odd gut reads and a feeling of their connection to other players, I really don't understand the swell in one direction I'm seeing here.

Re-read over the day … I think Unsight became the lynch defacto because after SSBF’s claim the only real cases put together on anyone were here. Unsight had more support when SSBF’s wagon fell apart and thus was the choice for those not looking to do any scum-hunting themselves.

Can someone point me to the Rifka case? I do not remember seeing it.

Use the link above in my reply to Thor. It is the closest thing to a formal case on Rifka you will find.

Benmage and Magna, thoughts now?

I’ve made my thought clear regarding both Rifka and Unsight. I find Unsight to be overall the better lynch candidate but believe Rifka is a strong viable alternative.

FWIW, here are my reads:

So let me get this right – you have Vezo as solid Town in your eyes but Locke as neutral (I assume from the non-green or red coding)?

I assume your listing of SSBF as scum means you don’t think he’s the Vig / SK.

Other than listing your 5 suspects as scum why aren’t you parsing who is likely Lannister versus Greyjoy?

[Unsight]

Unsight: you do know that one of your scum reads is gearing up to vig the other, right? Doesn't this invalidate your concerns about scum cross-killing?

I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "your concerns about scum cross-killing."

Also I'm getting more and more puzzled as to why Benmage tried to get me modkilled in post 1850.

[Unsight]

Other than listing your 5 suspects as scum why aren’t you parsing who is likely Lannister versus Greyjoy?

Because I don't care what flavor the scum is as long as it dies.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Locke Lamora: 1. It's because we need to try to make as little mistakes as possible regardless of how far town is ahead. Lynching a townie will set us back. If we were to lynch CSL today, town would take the less damage for his lynch if he flipped town, due to his uselessness and his Vanilla Townie claim.

2. Because I didn't want people to just completely ignore my case on CSL and give people a second thought about the possibility of lynching him.

3. Because due to demands by a few people (MagnaofIllusion for example), I'll be torn between killing either vezokpiraka or CSL. Which means that I have two choices:

1. Kill an extremely anti-town player that people are wanting me to kill.
2. Kill someone I think is truly scummy but less people support.

I will really have to think about those two choices during the night. Both are good choices, but I'll need to choose eventually.

With that said, I'll be semi-V/LA during Marathon Day that just started. However, I will be around to hammer Unsight/Rifka Viveka if a lynch needs to go through.

[Mina]

Hey, this is just a promise to try to finish the rest of the QT paraphrase tonight (although it might involve a lot of coffee). I've been so distracted lately that I didn't even realize that the deadline is tomorrow.

Aah, I've just skimmed the last few pages. I am so behind on this game right now. I know whom my top choice for a lynch would be right now if we had unlimited time (I'll save it for Cow in the QT tonight if he scans town), but I'm kind of lukewarm on both the Unsight and Rifka wagons.

Um...

Vote: Rifka

Unsight's prickliness and lack of attention to his image doesn't seem scummy, and I'm in favour of shaking things up.

But please, Rifka, don't claim unless it looks like you're going to be the lynch instead of Unsight. I don't want to have two claims per day unless it's 100% necessary.

I have a very strong scum read on SSBF right now (total reversal from D2, I know). But I realized that even in my worst case scenario (there's a SK and it's not SSBF), we don't lose anything by lynching him tomorrow instead of today. Whether or not we lynch him, the real SK would still be at large. It's better to wait for the information we'd get from another night of deaths.

[Axelrod]

Okay, I've reviewed Rifka now and I can say pretty definitively that he hasn't done much of anything I've care for this whole game.

Voted Deer/Raivann in his first post and left it there a long time without arguing it. Spent a lot of time arguing with Benmage instead. This is a minor point of suspicion. The argument reads like you find Benmage to be scummy and you attack his voting Drippereth as "less than worthless" also saying he's got an "obstructionist attitude, but no vote for him.

Then, you criticize Dr. Modem without vote, but say you aren't going to vote Dr. Modem's replacement because that would be "hiding behind a vote" that couldn't be defended. Somewhat ironic as you have yet to defend (or even mention) your vote for Deer.

Then seems more than willing to hammer Richard (who he has not said anything about yet), and makes that post about "lurkers" listing everyone's postcounts.

When questioned (I can't see by who) he justifies the Deer vote by saying Deer "hadn't done anything to even justify moving the vote." That's somewhat interesting way of phrasing, because, again, it's NOT the same thing as saying Deer is actively scummy, or arguing strongly for a Deer Lynch, it's saying "I voted him (for unstated reasons) and he hasn't done anything to make me want to move my vote. That's okay, but not when later Rifka tries to make it sound like he was all over Deer right from the beginning like this is some kind of strong point in his favor. In fact he Unvotes Deer in very next post.

Not a fan of his repeated statements that he's willing to hammer basically whoever. That does sort of look like someone who's happy to lynch anyone as long as it's not him.

Then he has an argument with Mina where he says he never called Benmage scum - which is true, though his remarks certainly look like an attack - and says he in fact thinks Benmage is Town. Maybe a little revisionist history? His response to Mina's challenge is weak. Saying "I really think you are reaching here...." and "I don't get the scum read (on myself)." Like, duh, you don't get a scum read on yourself? That should virtually go without saying if you are town.

He appears to be critical of the CMAR lynch, but doesn't really defend CMAR either. Never mentions him at all until he challenges those voting CMAR to do a "sitewide" ISO on him. Like, dude, did you do one yourself? Do you have an opinion about his scum/townness from it? Because you don't say. And later he seems to advocate that a vig kill CMAR so, what's up with that?

Then he votes Richard for reasons that make no sense ("Conflicting Claims" which (a) they weren't conflicting and (b) even if they were, why pick Richard over the person you supposedly thought was scummier from the beginning).

Day 2 he starts out voting SSBF "as per earlier reasons" which, really, he hasn't given much. Agrees there are "logical" reasons to vote both SSBF and Danakillsu but says SSBF gets the vote based on "gut." He actually says that his "ISO" of Dana doesn't show anything that couldn't come from town. But later, at lynch time, he jumps on board saying something to the effect of "if I want SSBF to be lynched most but also think Dana is scum, then I'm not going to go out of my way to try and derail a Dana lynch." But anyway, Vote Dana. That's suspiciously similar to what happened with danakillsu and what he said regarding Raivann (I always thought he was scummy, but didn't say so)

He seems to go for the soft target in Vezo on Day 3. Though he says he still thinks SSBF is scum and he's finding Benmage suspicious. He thinks the contradiction on Vezo's soft claim vs. actual claim is too much to ignore. Although I am currently somewhat ignoring it, this is one of the few things Rifka has said that I can't really criticize him for. Vezo is just pretty bad, whatever alignment he turns out to be.

Here's where he says: "do i make sense as a raivan buddy? I was on him constantly from my first post to the end of d1" Which is again somewhat of a revisionist history as you were hardly "on" him. Even when you were voting him, you barely talked about him and certainly never encouraged other to the vote.

I have no opinion on Rifka's lighting a candle for himself. His explanation for why he did it, however, which was something like "I was trying to gain an insight on MagnaofIllusion" (and possibly just people in general), was strange and weak.

He then defends his Deer vote again, trying to make it sound much stronger than it was. Says Deer had a "megatell" first post. Of course, this is something he never even hinted at the time.

Then he did a bit of defending himself against MagnaofIllusion. What's interesting here is that he's critical of MagnaofIllusion, says Magna isn't scumhunting but just looking for cheap shots, but Magna is also not on his scum list apparently.

Finally, votes Mikujin, kind of out of left field. Hasn't said anything about Miku all game really, but now latches onto the "rolefishing" argument and apparently thinks this is enough to vote for a lynch, even over SSBF and Vezo.

So, really, nothing much positive to see here. And that's maybe the biggest concern of all, that in all his posting there really hasn't been even one post to make me jump up and say "yeah, that sounds like a Townie post!" It's kind of similar to Unsight, actually, to the point of making me wonder if he might just always play like this. But it's enough that I'd been happy with that vote as well.

We're down to less than a day, however. I'll go ahead and

Vote: Rifka

for the moment. But I'd still jump to Unsight if it looked like we were about to No Lynch.

[hasdgfas]

You know, I'm kinda being convinced on Rifka. Need to ISO, but I'm thinking Rifka needs to claim.

[Mina]

You know, I'm kinda being convinced on Rifka. Need to ISO, but I'm thinking Rifka needs to claim.

I swear, you're doing this on purpose.

But please, Rifka, don't claim unless it looks like you're going to be the lynch instead of Unsight. I don't want to have two claims per day unless it's 100% necessary.

What is wrong with people on mafiascum and their obsession with asking for a claim every time someone gets looked at sideways?

Why the hell are you asking Rifka to claim when your vote isn't

on her

?

You're probably going to be cleared at the end of the day, anyway, but...really?

We are not getting a claim from Rifka unless more people want to lynch her over Unsight. Particularly since Unsight already claimed VT.

What convinced you in particular on Rifka? Was it Axel's most recent post?

I have mixed feelings on that case (although he brought up a couple of good points--for example, Rifka's stance on the dana v. SSBF lynches, which makes her a very likely Lannister). I hate it when people reread a player and try to spin every single action they've made in the game as a sign of guilt--it comes across as insincere and overjustified. Particularly since Axelrod comes to a rather soft and wishy-washy conclusion:

So, really, nothing much positive to see here. And that's maybe the biggest concern of all, that in all his posting there really hasn't been even one post to make me jump up and say "yeah, that sounds like a Townie post!" It's kind of similar to Unsight, actually, to the point of making me wonder if he might just always play like this. But it's enough that I'd been happy with that vote as well.

This last part is middle-of-the-road goodness.

Right now, is there anyone you think

is scum

? If you could get one player lynched this second, whom would it be?

Do you actually PREFER a Rifka vote to an Unsight vote, or are they even in your mind? Why do you think that Rifka is scummier than Unsight?

[Mina]

(Yeah, I'm taking back my prediction that LynchMePls vs. Axelrod was town vs. town.)

[hasdgfas]

You know, I'm kinda being convinced on Rifka. Need to ISO, but I'm thinking Rifka needs to claim.

I swear, you're doing this on purpose.

hmm?

Also, I'm doing the paraphrasing as soon as I get up tomorrow if you haven't finished it.

[hasdgfas]

You know, I'm kinda being convinced on Rifka. Need to ISO, but I'm thinking Rifka needs to claim.

I swear, you're doing this on purpose.

hmm?

forget this, I kinda got confused about the rest of your post.

What is wrong with people on mafiascum and their obsession with asking for a claim every time someone gets looked at sideways?

Because tomorrow is deadline.

Why the hell are you asking Rifka to claim when your vote isn't

on her

?

Because my vote isn't on

anyone

, and I want to place it in a way that helps us get to a lynch. Since deadline is

tomorrow

(later today, techinically).

What convinced you in particular on Rifka? Was it Axel's most recent post?

Nah, it was thinking back over what Rifka's done with game before looking back. I really don't like Axelrod at all this game, but scum have to scumhunt too, so it's quite possible that it's a serious case.

Right now, is there anyone you think

is scum

? If you could get one player lynched this second, whom would it be?

SSBF. I should think this would be obvious.

Do you actually PREFER a Rifka vote to an Unsight vote, or are they even in your mind? Why do you think that Rifka is scummier than Unsight?

I currently don't think that Unsight is all that scummy. I looked back over him(her?) and couldn't see much that rubbed me wrong.
On the other hand, I looked back at Rifka and went "hmmmmmmmmmmm, this is kinda weird. He/she doesn't really seem to know what he/she thinks."

[Mina]

*sigh*

Yet More Kvetching In the White Tower

Last week's episode of

The Kingsguard

ended on a shocking cliffhanger, as the valiant Ser Cow the Holy scandalized viewers worldwide by being...*gasp*

overdefensive

! In this sequel to the two-part saga of the loyal Knights of the Kingsguard and the secrets that lie beneath their white cloaks, a brand new face joins us--Ellibereth!

(can you tell I want to shoot myself right now?)

12)

Ellibereth

posts a slew of one-liners, clearly in with his other head, and comes across as though he hasn't been following the thread closely since Day One. He:
-asks if vezo had some contradiction in his claim
-cryptically says it's Unsight and definitely Rifka (prescient words, considering how today has gone)
-asks why people suspect Super Smash, because he knows there were issues surrounding him but can't remember what
-says that he's not worried about scum infiltrators except for Percy, because everyone else on the Kingsguard has looked obvtown for a while.

Both heads of the hydra confuse themselves as

Dripping Goofball

mistakes Cow's post about his SSBF suspicions as Elli's and thinks Elli contradicted himself on SSBF-scum.

13)

Percy

, the slimy villainous scumbag, responds to my comment that looking town is easier than catching scum by saying he has the same problem himself (we've noticed <_<), but my trying to call attention to it seemed off. He tells me to go ahead and share my suspicions in the QT if I've found something new, and says he agrees with my Benmage read. Disputes my theory that Raivann killed julienvonwolfe by saying that like he mentioned in the thread, poisoning is a Lannister kill method. Doesn't get that I misread his "Greyjoy" comment to mean the wagon

on

Greyjoy, and says he thinks there were Greyjoys on dana's wagon because it was a good case that WASN'T on a Greyjoy.

In response to LMP's question on vigging/lynching vezo, says that he's convinced that vezokpiraka is Joffrey, because of the disconnection between "next in line to the throne" and "Meera Reed." Says that although he isn't happy with wasting a lynch on him when there are other good leads, he's tempted by the idea of lynching three scum in a row, especially since vezo might have a role as well.

He goes into detail on Joffrey and Meera's roles in the books, and why it doesn't fit the flavour for Meera to be next in line to the throne. He mentions that ASOIAF has been translated into Romanian.

So yeah.

Vezokpiraka is 99.9% not a Greyjoy.

Agrees with Cow that SSBF is scummy, but says that Cow's opinion of SSBF's scumminess rose at the start of D2. But Percy adds that he hasn't concluded anything from his wagon analysis yet or reread the thread.

In response to Ellibereth's question about SSBF being scummy, uses a funny acronym that might count as quoting if I repeat it.

Lastly, gets really annoyed with Drippereth. He says he's sick of them smearing him, refuses to respond to their scumread until they give him something to defend against, and asks them to explain why they think he's scum because they're wasting their time. Also asks for a response to his case on them. (

It's kind of obvious why Drippereth was drowned.

)

14)

Dripping Goofball

agrees with Percy that vezo mixed up his real name with his fake claim. She also thinks that Benmage is acting weird even for Benmage.

She says that Elli was V/LA and so isn't caught up, and that Percy had done scummy stuff on D1 (she doesn't elaborate), but that she isn't as worried now. And besides, Percy is useful for his knowledge of the flavour. (On a funny note, DGB admits to not knowing whether ASOIAF is a book, movie, or video game.)

She dismisses Percy's issues with the hydra as a bore and a waste of time because she's town, and says she'd rather hunt scum. (All in all, my reaction to this post was "WTF?" I found her refusal to answer Percy's case really scummy...but obviously it wasn't a scumtell in retrospect.)

15)

LynchMePls

explains the case on SSBF. He says that SSBF has many connections to Raivann, as explained on the beginning of Day Two, and then tried to deflect from this with a terrible case on vezokpiraka. Then when people call him on it, SSBF lurks heavily.

Pimps the ASOIAF series to DrippingGoofball. Says that Percy has a good point on vezo, but that LMP's main problem with the wagon is that everyone who has pushed him looks scummy. Reminds Percy that D1 was a mislynch (and Raivann was NK'd).

Tells people who doubt SSBF-scum to reread the beginning of Page 37, in which he's painfully scummy (to the point that his play on that page alone should be enough for us to lynch him). He says that SSBF is clearly a Greyjoy based on how he admits he needs to explain his connections to Raivann, cheers for the Mafia godfather's death, and talks about looking for Raivann's connections.

(Not that relevant, but they're the last words of a dead townie. Also a good argument for SSBF-scum.)

16)

hasdgfas

tells Percy to read his ISO 1, in which he lists SSBF as one of his scumreads. Says his read got a boost Day Two because SSBF started the day by doing something incredibly scummy. He voted SSBF within the first ten posts of the day, before there was a big wagon on dana. Reiterates that you can't dispute that fact. Tells Percy to look for scum on the SSBF mob when the wagon on dana was huge, instead of when both wagons were the same size.

(Off-topic: I strongly disagree with this logic, and think that by the time the dana wagon was large, all the scum would have cut ties. It's better to look at when both wagons were in competition, since that's when scum had to make a choice--although I agree the first vote on SSBF wouldn't be bandwagoning. This isn't damning, but again, it added to my impression that Cow was protesting too much, particularly since I thought his behaviour would fit with that of a dana partner.)

Cow corrects Percy on his Joffrey logic by saying that when ACOK starts, Joffrey isn't next in line because he's already king, meaning vezo is more likely someone like Tommen (although it's debatable as to whether Tommen would be scum). vezok could also be Stannis Baratheon (who is officially next in line to the throne).

(

This is a good point, but after LMP's poisoning, it made me wonder if Cow was vezo's partner, particularly since his opinion on vezok had been rather non-committal. I think Cow will flip town, but it's useful to know in case he turns out to be a Lannister.

)

17)

Percy

agrees with Hascow that vezokpiraka would be Tommen or Stannis if he's faking his claim, but says he still doesn't buy his "all girls are princesses-->next in line to the throne" story. Says he's rereading D2.

18)

LynchMePls

says he isn't sure that vezo wouldn't be that dumb (yes, a double negative) based on his previous experiences with vezokpiraka.

19)

DrippingGoofball

is sold on the SSBF lynch based on LMP's case.

20) I (

Mina

) ask DGB if she realized that stabbing takes away a player's role as well as his vote. I then...um, scold DGB self-righteously to answer Percy's case, and not to dare call it a distraction based on how she's played this game. I express disbelief that she's clearing Percy based on his

flavour analysis

and not on his unlikeliness of being either a Lannister or a Greyjoy. Yeah. This is kind of embarrassing after how today's gone down.

I say that my comment about sucking at Mafia didn't have much thought put into it, and touch upon the disorganized stream-of-consciousness thought process that lead from me thinking that I should get off my ass and do partnership analysis to "downplaying" my Mafia abilities.

Finally, I say that although I haven't finished rereading D2, I'm starting to see the light on SSBF-scum. I say I'm not sure if I'll keep pushing CSL or go after Benmage or vezokpiraka, because there are too many scummy players to choose between.

Thread closed for the night.

Over.

Finito.

Nothing left to paraphrase.

Seriously. You want to know why I kept putting that off? No, it wasn't some nefarious plan to keep the top-secret incriminating information that (gasp) LYNCHMEPLS ASKED ME MY OPINION OF THE DANA FLIP from the town's inquisitive ears. It's because Day One alone took me at least six fucking hours. And because this was like slowly peeling my fingernails off, one by one.

No one had better ask me for Night Three. Tomorrow, I'll do something productive. Like try to figure out who's scum.

[Mina]

What is wrong with people on mafiascum and their obsession with asking for a claim every time someone gets looked at sideways?

Because tomorrow is deadline.

Why the hell are you asking Rifka to claim when your vote isn't

on her

?

Because my vote isn't on

anyone

, and I want to place it in a way that helps us get to a lynch. Since deadline is

tomorrow

(later today, techinically).

Then what I'd advise you to do is vote Rifka

but not ask for a claim right away

. If it's deadline and there still aren't enough people willing to lynch Rifka, then someone can hammer Unsight instead. And even better, Rifka isn't forced to claim needlessly.

Only problem is if everyone moves from Unsight to Rifka, screwing us over if Rifka claims cop at deadline and there's no alternative.

So...um, people voting for Unsight, don't vote Rifka unless you have an epiphany from the gods revealing to you her scumminess in a heavenly vision basked in celestial light and sparkles...

...don't mind me. I think I've lost my sanity from writing that paraphrasing.

What convinced you in particular on Rifka? Was it Axel's most recent post?

Nah, it was thinking back over what Rifka's done with game before looking back. I really don't like Axelrod at all this game, but scum have to scumhunt too, so it's quite possible that it's a serious case.

Fair enough.

Right now, is there anyone you think

is scum

? If you could get one player lynched this second, whom would it be?

SSBF. I should think this would be obvious.

Do you actually PREFER a Rifka vote to an Unsight vote, or are they even in your mind? Why do you think that Rifka is scummier than Unsight?

I currently don't think that Unsight is all that scummy. I looked back over him(her?) and couldn't see much that rubbed me wrong.
On the other hand, I looked back at Rifka and went "hmmmmmmmmmmm, this is kinda weird. He/she doesn't really seem to know what he/she thinks."

Cow, those last two questions were directed at Axelrod, not at you.

[Locke Lamora]

Thanks, Mina. Useful stuff in there. Definitely clears Vezo as a Greyjoy. Shouldn't you have an easier time of it tonight, what with LMP, DGB and Percy all dead?

Unsight: you said you didn't want to rely on scum killing each other. SSBF killing CSL = one scum killing another on your list.

Does that make it 6 on Rifka? Everyone not voting Rifka or Unsight, make your choice as soon as you get in here. I want decisions (or, if you refuse to choose either of them and think both are bad lynches, I want you to say that). Everyone else, stay where you are, you've made your choice.

[Mina]

Locke, what if my vote is on Rifka, but I want Axelrod lynched over Rifka OR Unsight right now? Does that count as a position?

He also hadn't commented on anything else that had gone down in the QT.

Because responding to "what do you want done with vezo?" is nothing?

You're technically right. Replace "anything" with "the vast majority."

But it was a direct question to you. LMP had asked you pointblank (even mentioning you by name) what your thoughts on vigging vezo were, just a post or two ago. You devoted a couple of sentences to saying you didn't know your read on him and vigging him sooner was better than later. Then the rest was justifying your SSBF vote to Percy. Other than that, you didn't engage much with the Kingsguard's discussion. (In all fairness, you do have a couple more posts after that.)

If you're worried about modkill, PM the mod. Mentioning it in-thread is incredibly scummy, there's no town reason to do so. Why would you say this? Regardless of whether you thought it required modkill, if you're town, you shouldn't want a modkill.

Actually...the modkill of a VT (or scum) who was about to be lynched would help the town (assuming the mod didn't end the day immediately).

Probably me defending myself from percy's hint of looking at me. It annoyed me, because it seemed to me to be a subtle attack, which he didn't like when others did the same to him in the QT. So I thought I should explain it. As I've said before, there should be no reason for me not to defend myself as much as I can. Everyone wants to survive, regardless of alignment, so not totally defending yourself isn't playing to win.

This is all irrelevant now, but call this a "tip" (if you actually think my advice is worth anything) for next time.

Firstly, I see a difference between our attacks on Percy (in which we outright said we got scummy vibes from him) and Percy's list. DGB did all this voting analysis implicating the dana voters. Percy said that if you're going to do voting analysis, then the logical place to look for scum is in the early SSBF voters, {insert copy-paste of six players}. (Hmm, random thought...was he protecting partners on the dana wagon? But then what about looking for Greyjoys among the early dana voters?) But then he turned around and said he thought DGB (who wasn't even on that list) was a Lannister. Listing a third of the players in the game isn't really a subtle attack on you personally.

Secondly, townies shouldn't roll over and let themselves get lynched. And I agree it's often good to nip in the bud accusations that could grow into a full-blown case. But whereas scum's primary goal is to survive, townies are driven by a desire to find the scum in their midst. So someone who puts more effort into dismissing the slightest whiff of criticism against himself (even when he's under no serious suspicion) than attacking others is playing in a way that benefits scum more than town. Instead of stating, "I think that X, Y, and Z players are most likely to be dana's buddy," you went out of your way to justify your vote for SSBF and explain why it wasn't scummy.

Maybe it's a playstyle thing. But to me, it came across as though you're too concerned with how others perceive you.

[Mina]

I say that although Raivann

could

have been trying to indoctrinate a buddy into the Kingsguard, it's far more likely that we helpfully advised the Greyjoys into killing jvw instead of xvart.

Huh? Please elaborate. How/why did you think that the Greyjoy's were going to kill me?

xvart.

Remember the N1 paraphrase?

We were suggesting potential Kingsguard recruits. Raivann suggested you as an option. I went, "No, not xvart! He doesn't look all that townish. Why not one of these other protown players?" Finally, after lots of discussion, we agreed that julienvonwolfe was the best option.

The next morning, jvw turned up dead.

It seemed like too large a coincidence not to be Raivann's doing.

So I thought all our deliberations in the QT had just given Raivann a bird's eye view into whom town thought was most trustworthy (and therefore, whom should be eliminated).

Of course, this is moot now that we know jvw was a Lannister kill.

[Eddard Stark]

Deadline Looming

Votecount 3.20 The '

I fear what little law and order left to us by the five kings will not survive the three Queens

' votecount.

Super Smash Bros. Fan (2) -

Unsight,Mikujin

Unsight (7)

MagnaOfIllusion, RichardGHP, Benmage, Vezokpiraka, Diddin, Rifka Viveka, CSL

Rifka Viveka (6)

Thor665, Locke Lamora, xvart, Macavitar, Mina, Axelrod,

CSL (1)

Super Smash Bros. Fan

Not Voting (1)-

Hasdgfas

With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

Deadline for today is Wednesday August 11th @ 6:30 EST. here

[Axelrod]

Ah, Mina, you cut me.

I hate it when people reread a player and try to spin every single action they've made in the game as a sign of guilt--it comes across as insincere and overjustified. Particularly since Axelrod comes to a rather soft and wishy-washy conclusion

I may plead guilty to the wishy-washy conclusion, but not to the "spinning everything as a sign of guilt." I'm just calling it like I see it, and I didn't see anything particularly townish out of Rifka, not for the whole game.

Right now, is there anyone you think is scum? If you could get one player lynched this second, whom would it be?

I don't have any what I would call great scum reads. These are the people of greatest interest:

6) Unsight
10) Super Smash Bros. Fan (I'm going with SK here)
13) Vezokpiraka
15) Mikujin (though this is a bit less recently)
19) CSL
20) Rifka Viveka
25) MagnaOfIllusion

24) hasdgfas (not a concern anymore due to imminent inspection)

After them is a "middle" group:

Benmage
Diddin
Richard

And people I feel best about as far as being "Town":

Locke
Mina
Thor665

xvart
McCavityLock

Do you actually PREFER a Rifka vote to an Unsight vote, or are they even in your mind? Why do you think that Rifka is scummier than Unsight?

I

would

prefer a Rifka lynch. I don't like a lot of Unsight's stuff, he makes a lot of short, angry posts, spends a lot of his time defending himself, and I didn't care much for the claim, but if I read him charitably, there were definitely more posts of substance than Rifka's, and more opinions expressed. I would actually put Unsight below CSL and SSBF too, but SSBF isn't happening and CSL is (hopefully) scheduled for the NK, so Rifka next, and then maybe Unsight. Or Vezo. Man, I dislike Vezo's play so much part of me would just be so very happy if he were gone from the game, regardless of alignment.