Succession Mafia (OVER!)

[zwetschenwasser]

there's a difference between "strong scum read" and "scum read"

[animorpherv1]

there's a difference between "strong scum read" and "scum read"

Yea, there is. That was me fault.

[Friend]

I'm not sure you got recruited. And yeah, the thought popped into my head.

[Yosarian2]

Doing an ISO on friend now:

The whole way he handled the "Vezo/Serephem/Serephem's replacement" thing, where first he declared he didn't have a problem with Vezo's play, then attacked Serephem for his Vezo vote for entirly reasonable reasons, and then unvoted Serephem and "declared him town" after he replaced out on day 1 seems somewhat townish.

I don't really like or get the way he voted Zwet for Zwet's entierly reasonable furcolow vote. Friend, can you explain this? If you thought Serephm's slot was obviously town after he replaced out, then why didn't you like Zwet's vote on Furcolow, when it was based on Furcolow voting Serephem after he asked to replace out?

VEZO'S NOT SMART ENOUGH TO FAKE A SOFTCLAIM LIKE THAT IMO.

Heh. Making this argument is probably a mild pro-town tell from Friend.

I also would like a response to the point I quoted earlier, Friend. Why did you say Porochaz hadn't responded to your questions about his tell, when he clearly had?

Freinds attack on Gandledof seems reasonable.

I don't mind him being opposed to the Furc wagon because of a gut read.

As I mentioned before, the timing of some of his stuff seems odd, like his Lord Gurgi vote, and the timing of his "Yos is a recruit" theory being incredibly convenient.

Meh. I kind of hate to do this, because I was just starting to get a good "righteous anger" thing going, but after that ISO, I'm no longer really wanting to lynch Friend today. Some of his stuff bothers me, but some of it seems like it could have come from a townie. I would like him to answer those questions though.

[ReaperCharlie]

1. As has already been establish, town shouldn't even be looking for recruits right now, town should be trying to find the recruiters.

Oh really. And how the heck are you gonna tell the difference, pray tell? Look at you, trying to 'lead the town' with useless wisdom that can only come from a pretty silver fountain of BULL@#$&. There is no way to tell, you're just trying to look good and be 'pro-town' so that you can survive the day without suspicion.

No thank you. After reading that post, I'll bet my bottom dollar that you are scum.
Well, not just because of that post. Because of a plethora of other things as well.


And oh, lookee here, I'm gonna put my money where my mouth is.

Aim: Yosarian2

[animorpherv1]

Yos, did you learn ANYTHING from Zombies? It's nice to find the recruitier, but if you found a recruit, stalling the recruiter is good to.

[ReaperCharlie]

Will you look at this ani kid... pretending he's tech.

jk <3 ani

[Friend]

Alright, town.

I've got some things to say.

Let's start at the beginning, shall we?

Once upon a time, there was a man named Friend. He discovered mafiascum and quickly joined a newbie game! What fun it was, questioning and making cases. He thought he was good at it too, until the person he was so sure was scum flipped town.

Oh well, that happens sometimes

, he thought.

I'm good enough to get the next one.

But, alas, the next person he tried to make a case on, leading to his lynch, was also town! Friend began to get frustrated. He joined other games, like this one, this one, and this one. He thought his logical playstyle and relentless questioning would surely lead to death for the scumbags! But each and every time, Friend was vanquished. His reads were totally inaccurate! Friend lost 5 games in a row, all as town, never getting lynched in a single one.

He realized that something had to change.

He got a new avatar, replacing the old cute-kitten one. He got a new attitude towards every game - "Trust your gut." He realized that whenever he made cases, they were incorrect, so he stopped. But! People began calling him scummy. Friend had a dilemma - is it better to be perceived as scummy, yet be able to nail scum, or be perceived as quote-unquote "obvtown" but always lynch townies? Friend thought that the former, while alienating and somewhat hard-to-keep-up, was the better of the two options. So he began on a new path, towards improvement and scum lynchings.

Basically, town, I'm sorry. I can revert to old, logical, questioning, blatantly protown Friend if need be. The only reason I don't is, when I do, I lose. I hope this helps clarify some things about me and my playstyle, and I hope you'll forgive me for being somewhat anti-town.

Anyways, onto scumhunting:

What RC said.

aim, holster: Yosarian2

[Furcolow]

i have scum meta now
http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14990

[Friend]

That game is different from the way he's been playing.

[xvart]

Post 84, I was not lynching Seraphim because he was replacing out. it is a valid reason, IMO.

Wanting to see if someone is scum or town is a valid reason for a vote? I want to see if everyone is scum or town but I'm not voting everyone.

I'd have to see what you're referring to in context, xvart

also, why do you sign your posts? it's not like we don't know they're from you

For context, I'll try and explain since you don't seemed to have cared enough to go back yourself:

Animorph's 74 and Furclow's 77 strike me as very opportunistic, being that after asking to be replaced goes ahead and votes under the pretext of "we all want to know." Odds are the Seraphim wagon will disintegrate after asking for replacement.

1

Furclow's 78 - fake scumhunting? The game has been open less than 8 hours and you are already calling people out for not posting? What about Andrius, ooba, and Yosarian2? None of them had posted at the time of your post, especially since this was your second (immediately consecutive) post of the game...

2

I feel like he would do that as scum.

Why would he do that as scum?

³

Furclow 99 - oh okay. You're town. In that case...

4

I'd prefer to lynch a lurker than a liar if the liar is lying like I'm lying

Um... seriously... wtf?

5

1

Someone replaces out and you immediately aim saying he "may as well die." That doesn't strike you as opportunistic?

2

You accuse one person of not posting enough but don't care about any of the people who haven't posted at all. Why are you more concerned with someone who has posted only once compared to the people who haven't posted at all?

3

Why would someone replace out as scum? Or do you think that specifically Seraphim would do that as scum? If only Seraphim, what brought you to this conclusion? Do you think he was busted already? Or, if people who replace out replace out as scum, why?

4

No response needed. You are just stating that you are town...

again.

5

No context/response needed here, either; unless you care to explain the scummiest post of the game so far.

Summing up, I think competing bandwagons on gandalf and friend would be the best course of action right now.

This seems like you're playing both sides of the argument against each other.

How? There are several possibilities under a two scum game:

• Friend is town, gandalf is town;
  
• Friend is scum1, gandalf is town;
  
• Friend is scum2, gandalf is town;
  
• Friend is town, gandalf is scum1;
  
• Friend is town, gandalf is scum2;
  
• Friend is scum1, gandalf is scum1;
  
• Friend is scum2, gandalf is scum2;
  
• Friend is scum 1, gandalf is scum2; and,
  
• Friend is scum2, gandalf is scum 1.

The only one of those that would not be extremely beneficial later in terms of bandwagon information later in the game is if they both are town. Having competing bandwagons would give ample information in terms of if one of them is scum (or if both of them were scum); not that it matters since the gandalf wagon dissolved/never took off.

Friend is most likely town too. Reasoning is based on
- When a particular person chose to attack another
- What topics were commented on\ignored

Can you elaborate a little more? What "particular person" are you referring to? Which topics were commented on and which were ignored and how those specific topics are indicative of town/scum?

Nevermind... Saw your 365 where you said you would have more detailed cases as the game goes on and the comment about "absolutes". But what comments were ignored?

3. I disagree

If you disagree that overwhelming gut is a terrible justification, why do you hate to admit it?

eh I can only use the one-shot during the night.

it will still be at gandalf

What? Did I miss something?

General way he was posting, plus the way he replaced out. Also he mentioned Vezok possibly concocting this plan with his scumbuddies, if I understand the game mechanics there probably wouldn't be any scumbuddies since they'd be recruiting and I think this is prob a town tell.

You don't think his repeated change of his Vezok read while under pressure is at least mildly concerning?

Caught up through page 399. Will explain my Friend vote in a post later tonight since at this point there seems to be a lot of questioning about how terrible the case on him is.

xvart.

[zwetschenwasser]

<3 friend

Confirm Aim Friend

[Andrius]

Why not? By what I've just shown, that you said you AGREED WITH, I showed that the likelihood that they are scum is GREATER than the likelihood that others are scum, due to the likelihood that they'd been RECRUITED is higher.

Does this make sense? Confirm or deny.

It makes sense ONLY IF THEY HAD N0 RECRUITING. Since we don't know, I don't want to waagon them just yet.

I think it's much more likely that you suddenly "thought" of that argument as a way to discredit me. And, if you are scum, it would be a perfect way to do it; you get to discredit my arguments and plant suspicious on me for later use, and you don't even have worry about being proven wrong because the town isn't going to actually be looking to lynch plasuable recruits for several days.

If true, this is Poisoning the Well. Logical fallacy.

He got a new avatar, replacing the old cute-kitten one. He got a new attitude towards every game - "Trust your gut." He realized that whenever he made cases, they were incorrect, so he stopped. But! People began calling him scummy.

I was actually wondering what happened... Anyway. I'm leaning town on Friend too. Not a strong read, but I'm leaning town now.

My vote shall stay on Dramonic for now. Anything else for me?

Zwet, your last post comes across as a "I'm a heartless bastard" deal. XD

[Andrius]

EBWOP: Not Yosarin's post, the post Friend made that Yos replied to.

[Porochaz]

This game is really painful.

[zwetschenwasser]

I loled at Friend's post, believed it (still do), realized that it was also AtE by the fact that it was so gutwrenching, and became convinced of Friend's scumminess.

[Andrius]

This game is really painful.

No its not. I've found scum. Vote them and we move on with our lives.

Or we can sit around and watch gandalf, Furc, Friend, Zwet run around with their heads cut off and RC sits back and goes LOLOLOLOL.
So yeah. I'm down for lynching scum.

[Friend]

I hated to admit that Furc was town, xvart. Not that I had the read on him.

[Porochaz]

I prefer my Friend vote.

[zwetschenwasser]

same

[Lord Gurgi]

@Gandalf: were you

really

unable to tell from Furcolow's posting that he had a VI-type meta?

Yes, but with VIs, you have to get familiar with their meta to read them. It's how I work, man. So LINKS PLOX!!!!!!!

Ok, so shouldn't you have asked about his meta

before

you voted him?

Odd that Lord Gurgi spoke of competing wagons being a false dilemma, and then voted for Friend anyway. Token pro-town sentiment?

I'm not sure what competing wagon you think I'm endorsing? There's a difference between voting for an underdog wagon and endorsing two wagons simultaneously.

I don't understand the Yos wagon. TheLonging is moving his vote way too much. Most of the posts you guys are making are completely purposeless and just muddy the waters.

[Erg0]

I'll join this ubertown Alliance. Too bad you shouldn't be in it

holster
aim: Friend

if Friend is scum M=W is town.

This really doesn't make me feel any better about you.

Only 4 pages overnight? You guys are slipping.

[Me=Weird]

8 PAGES!?!?

Holster

, I'll be catching up, expect a good post in a while.

[TheLonging]

That's not what I said, Longing. I said that your dichotomy is flawed because I'm pretty sure M=W is town and I know I am town. <-- FOR POROCHAZ: I HAVE EXPLAINED THIS ALREADY.

Therefore, sticking to it and only making votes based on it is scummy to me.

WELL OF COURSE IT'D BE FLAWED TO YOU BECAUSE YOU'RE INVOLVED IN IT, AND JUST BECAUSE YOU THINK M=W IS SCUM DOESNN'T MEAN EVERYONE ELSE THINKS THE SAME.

[inHimshallibe]

Yos is the only unreadeble one here. (sic)