[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Nobody Special]

I just can't wrap my brain around having a Pacifist GF in a closed setup. That seems rather bastardly.

[yellowbounder]

Toasted Marshmallow Mafia

2 Firefighters/Arsonist Doctors
5 Townies

1 Arsonist

2 Mafia Goons (no NK)
1 Mafia Roleblocker (no NK)

The Mafia could use their RB to stop the Firefighters protecting people from the Arsonist, or to stop the Arsonist herself. Thoughts?

[mykonian]

@dramonic: I really don't know. I don't think patching up that setup will help it too much.

@yellowbounder.

7 town, 4 antitown. With the arsonist shooting because it is his only chance, after a mislynch the game is in "lylo". I don't think this game is a lot of fun for the townies because of that.

[yellowbounder]

@dramonic: I really don't know. I don't think patching up that setup will help it too much.

@yellowbounder.

7 town, 4 antitown. With the arsonist shooting because it is his only chance, after a mislynch the game is in "lylo". I don't think this game is a lot of fun for the townies because of that.

Boost it to 7 Townies, making it 9 town, 4 antitown?

[mykonian]

But then, you have to ask: do you like the mechanic (will scum actually have a choice between blocking a doctor or the arsonist)? Is the swingyness of the setup worth it?

about the swingyness: a lot depends on when the arsonist gets lynched. In your first setup, if the arsonist lives for 2 nights, town faces lylo day 2 (next night arsonist kills again and the day 3 lynch of the arsonist ensures a scum win). If he was lynched day 1, you would have a 3-5 nightless (that's quite fair).

In your second setup, the arsonist living for 3 nights gives lylo day 3. (quite fair)
if the arsonist gets lynched day 1: 3-7 nightless (scum has to mislynch 5! townies), which is very hard on scum.

/avocado

[jimfinn]

this assumes the arsonist only ever kills town, but he could just as easily hit scum, right?

[jimfinn]

Proposal
Good Cop, Bad Cop

Scum A
2 Goons
1 RB

Scum B
2 Goons
1 RB

Town
6 VT
1 Cop (returns town or anti-town, auto-roleblocked if tries to investigate bad cop)
1 RB
1 Watcher
1 1-Shot Vig (does not lose shot if RBed)

3rd Party
1 Bad Cop (Gets one investigation per night (returns town or anti-town), wins if either scum team eliminates the town, his survival is irrelevant to all win conditions, including his own) - 1-shot NK immunity

[mykonian]

this assumes the arsonist only ever kills town, but he could just as easily hit scum, right?

almost. A antitown group will usually start with shooting protown players to keep enough targets to mislynch. Town should be more often protown, which means that antitown groups have a tendency to shoot town more often.

I didn't post the actual best scenario for town, where they lynch scum and the arsonist only kills scum, ending the game d3 (which is totally not shocking and wasn't posted for that reason )

[mykonian]

Proposal
Good Cop, Bad Cop

Scum A
2 Goons
1 RB

Scum B
2 Goons
1 RB

Town
6 VT
1 Cop (returns town or anti-town, auto-roleblocked if tries to investigate bad cop)
1 RB
1 Watcher
1 1-Shot Vig (does not lose shot if RBed)

3rd Party
1 Bad Cop (Gets one investigation per night (returns town or anti-town), wins if either scum team eliminates the town, his survival is irrelevant to all win conditions, including his own) - 1-shot NK immunity

7 antitown-10 protown. After a mislynch d1, and both scum shooting a townie, town becomes a playball of the scum. You face a semi-lylo d1 and this setup is only reasonable with quite an amount of crosskills. Basically the same problem as with the first setup of yellowbound: it isn't fun for town to play in, as from d2 town can't influence if they win or not.

[jimfinn]

How many VTs are needed to balance the rest of the setup as is?

[mykonian]

How many VTs are needed to balance the rest of the setup as is?

mmm. 8? something like that. That would give town 3 mislynches, ending in a sort of lylo on day 4. They would have to lynch accurately in 2/3's of the cases.

if you wanted a mislynch more, which isn't unreasonable: 11.

However, we are talking about 25 and 28 player setups, just to accomodate for the 2 3-player scumteams, with the added survivorcop. Such large setups aren't very popular, and most likely will be terrible to run. The better solution would in my opinion be to have a 14 player setup with 2 2-player scumteams and the roles the same. The investigative power of town might be a little problem then (the watcher will certainly get a guilty claim the night after the cop has claimed, which is more destructive as the scumteams get smaller) but that is a minor problem.

[jimfinn]

Ok, resuggest "Good Cop, Bad Cop" striking one goon each.

[Andrius]

You could do a Good Cop, Bad Cop with some Cop Sanities and perhaps a Dirty Cop (Vigilante), and a Crooked Cop (Mafia RoleCop). That'd be fun.

[TheButtonmen]

How much does it empower town to be able to have up to two lynchs each day?

[Mr. Flay]

Depends partly on whether or not you reveal the first role after the first lynch, or only when Day is done.

Also, more Town Power Roles means somewhat less inclination to lynch more in early game, but can make lategame totally devastating on Scum.

[TheButtonmen]

I'm thinking of it as part of the the setup ala Too Much Scum except not manditory as it was in Too Much Scum.

[Mr. Flay]

Yos2 calls it the Lights Out mechanic, I'm not sure if

that's the only game it's been used in (besides /in-vitational 11, which is ongoing).

any other games have used it, besides the Scummies Invitational.

LO1: http://mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=3161
LO2: http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=4518
SI: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=14713

[TheButtonmen]

A) A ninja stole the wiki page.

B) Thanks for the links!

[Hoopla]

Yos2 calls it the Lights Out mechanic, I'm not sure if

that's the only game it's been used in (besides /in-vitational 11, which is ongoing).

any other games have used it, besides the Scummies Invitational.

LO1: http://mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=3161
LO2: http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=4518
SI: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... =3&t=14713

TDC's Roccisi Winter: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 29&start=0

[vezokpiraka]

Shuffle mafia.

There are 7 roles. One anti town guy and 6 townies.

They start as

1 mafia roleblocker

1 town doctor
1 town jailkeeper
1 town cop
1 town tracker
1 town miller
1 town vanilla.

At the end of each night roles gets shuffled and handed again. Night start.
The miller gets tracked to the dead body. The scum can both use an action and kill.

So what do you think?

[Andrius]

Broken by Cop/Doc combo. Each day Cop claims, Doc silently protects him. When the Mafia isn't RB, then they can't do anything.
Also, if there's ever a day when someone doesn't claim Cop, you know that the scum has it, and you then RB/Track/JK whoever didn't claim/hasn't had the Cop yet.

[gandalf5166]

I got the impression that scum always keeps their role. Also, track is as good as a cop, since mafia will be the only one tracked to two people.

[flinter]

I'm thinking about modding a game, and I wonder if this would make a decent setup.

"I think we are being followed"

mafia tracker
mafia goon
2 town tracker
5 vanilla town

[Herodotus]

Shuffle mafia.

There are 7 roles. One anti town guy and 6 townies.

They start as

1 mafia roleblocker

1 town doctor
1 town jailkeeper
1 town cop
1 town tracker
1 town miller
1 town vanilla.

At the end of each night roles gets shuffled and handed again. Night start.
The miller gets tracked to the dead body. The scum can both use an action and kill.

So what do you think?

Massclaim day 1 will clear all but two players. Lynch either of them, and if they were town, lynch the other on day 2.

[mallowgeno]

Framed Drunk Open:
10 players

Mafia

-1 Janitor
-1 Driver
-1 Framer

Town

-1 Drunk
-1 Cop
-1 Watcher
-4 Vanilla Townies

Comments Plox