Reckamonic's Ocarina of Time Mafia..OVER! Was Hyrule saved?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

And I'm willing to accept that people can take the stance that Cupcake's claim is fake. The possibility certainly exists...

But I'd like to see another explanation proposed for what it was exactly that prevented the cucoo attack?

[Mafuyu]

To be honest, you should probably watch out in attempting arguments like this. At this stage, it isn't so much of 'how' (as providing a myriad of answers only allows for easier fakeclaiming), but rather why the given syntax. Trying to write off 'blue particles' as any one type of ability doesn't do so much in the avenue of interpreting alignment. It's a given fact that something happened, but the nature isn't necessary until Cupcake is actually ready to be lynched.

That is to say, there's no reason for that to be a current topic of debate. The important points are A. It occurred, B. Cupcake is taking credit for it, C. There have been no counterclaims, D. Cupcake's responses since the event occurred.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The fact still remains that this power happened. It's not like Cupcake randomly brought this power up...

There is that power, that clearly protected her. So the question remains... if Cupcake's claim is false (as has been stated), can you or anyone else provide a decent/reasonable explanation for what the blue particles/what caused the cucoo's to turn into blue particles is?

[jmj3000]

Ok, I am not keeping anything straight, thanks to the doctors giving me medicine that kills my attention span and puts me in a fog. Can someone besides Ythan, LadyL, or Cupcake sum up everything into a nice post? If someone does, please be sure to include what set off the whole circular argument between Ythan and LadyL. I will be sure to make a content post after that if someone obliges me.

[Hinduragi]

Ok, I am not keeping anything straight, thanks to the doctors giving me medicine that kills my attention span and puts me in a fog. Can someone besides Ythan, LadyL, or Cupcake sum up everything into a nice post? If someone does, please be sure to include what set off the whole circular argument between Ythan and LadyL. I will be sure to make a content post after that if someone obliges me.

Post 1333

Mafuyu makes a point, LL, so just wait until Cupcake can respond his/herself.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ok, I am not keeping anything straight, thanks to the doctors giving me medicine that kills my attention span and puts me in a fog. Can someone besides Ythan, LadyL, or Cupcake sum up everything into a nice post? If someone does, please be sure to include what set off the whole circular argument between Ythan and LadyL. I will be sure to make a content post after that if someone obliges me.

Post 1333

Mafuyu makes a point, LL, so just wait until Cupcake can respond his/herself.

As you wish.

I'm just trying to keep a balanced discussion here. Imagine what would happen if I wasn't looking at the other side? Ythan would steam roll a potential town role, without looking back...

Because Cupcake is NEVER AROUND TO ANSWER QUESTIONS.

[Le Cupcake]

jmj, comments on THIS post.

This head does not have time to answer stuff now, and the other head has RL stuff going on.

[jmj3000]

Ok, I read post 1333, but that i just the ythan/ladyl/cupcake stuff. I meant in addition to that. Cupcake, comments on your post will come at the same time I comment on everything else.

[Reckamonic]

Prodding mothrax, ZONEACE, JaBOC, and ZazieR.
If any of them announced V/LA, I forgot to note it.

[Kdub]

OK, I'll admit I've glossed over the details of Ythan/LLD/Cupcake's argument, but is there any case against Cupcake that

doesn't

involve flavor speculation? It's not conclusive evidence at all. Even if Nayru isn't aquatic in canon, then 1) why would scum-Cupcake even claim aquatic as part of the fakeclaim in the first place, and 2) there has been reasonable evidence presented of the possibility of Nayru actually being aquatic that accusing the claim of being fake on that basis becomes entirely a matter of outguessing the mods.

So is there any reason to suspect Cupcake based on behavior or anything other than speculation about her claim?

[Chronopie]

We've been over this point before Mafuyu. (and others)

But I am concerned over one line:

We activated Nayru’s Love to protect ourselves. This resulted in the cuccos being disintegrated into little blue particles. LLD points out that this is likely the blue force field known as Nayru’s Love because it is logical that when things collide into a force field, they disintegrate. Ythan’s refute?

“You’re lying.”

Activated

Nayru’s Love. As in not a passive ability, but rather as though Cupcake somehow

knew

an attack was coming.

No, we activated it at the beginning of the day.

I believe I have already mentioned it being an active ability, rather than a passive.

[Nikanor]

Ythan, you said yourself that the mods have claimed that this game is unbreakable by flavour. Would that not include giving fake role PMs to scum? Busting scum on not knowing that the town's wincon is Hero or not knowing that the town's role names are in blue is not even remotely close to what I would call unbreakable. That's why I think that scum have fake role PMs.
By extension, something that could be considered scummy in most games (stalling on claiming flavour) is more town-like in this situation. Scum would be eager to post as great a fakeclaim as Nayru, the bulletproof aquatic goddess. On the other hand, town would be hesitant in claiming a bulletproof role, because it is such a powerful role for town to have and loses much of its power on claiming.
Of course, all of this relies on our mods not being "bumbling oafs," as Ythan seems to believe, but I hope that the rest of you can see why I think that Cupcake is town.

[Substrike22]

OK, I'll admit I've glossed over the details of Ythan/LLD/Cupcake's argument, but is there any case against Cupcake that

doesn't

involve flavor speculation? It's not conclusive evidence at all. Even if Nayru isn't aquatic in canon, then 1) why would scum-Cupcake even claim aquatic as part of the fakeclaim in the first place, and 2) there has been reasonable evidence presented of the possibility of Nayru actually being aquatic that accusing the claim of being fake on that basis becomes entirely a matter of outguessing the mods.

So is there any reason to suspect Cupcake based on behavior or anything other than speculation about her claim?

Before all the random speculation I was/am voting Cupcake based on active lurking, but now that this has turned into a flavor speculation clusterf*** I really am kind of lost as to who is scum. That combined with the fact that Ythan's mostly pro-town arguments are based around running people's emotions into the ground and I don't know how much actual scum hunting has gone on. It feels like we've gone 65 pages and not a whole lot's been accomplished outside of two insult-laden fights between Ythan and Chess, and Ythan and Lambda, with an occasional all caps post from Fate. -_-

[mothrax]

Was prodded, though I was V/LA.

through last night. Didnt have time to get a post up.
The ythan/LL argument is mostly worthless and I agree with sub that it has really done nothing but confuse the shite out of me. I can't even figure out who is arguing what at this point, since in all of their circular logic they seemed to agree with eachother on some thing, though they did keep yelling.
I will have a longer post up when I am on my computer, and I have a chance to reread.

[DTMaster]

I'm reading backwards since this explosion is huge. Just a quick question:

1. Ythan I provided a list of theme games that Dram did. He has a history of providing fake claims to the game while being accurate to the flavour of the game. At the very least he's provided a list of roles that do not appear in the game. Why do you believe Dram (or Reck) did not give fake claims when I have a working meta list suggesting else where.

2. Substrike I find it odd you find Ythan's attack to be pro-town. You state that he drags people down with just emotional put downs. How is that pro-town? This reads as anti-town actions to me because Ythan is accusing Cupcake of AtE, when in fact Ythan is using a form of aggressive AtE to put down his opponents (according to your read on him). Do you find this to be town on town action?

You also stated that your initial vote on Cupcake was for lurking, but you can't determine scum from this flavour noise. What's your current stance on cupcake?

I believe with Nikanor's analysis about the BP role. Also judging on page 54 Ythan's rebuttal to Cupcake's argument is troolllulzy, in the fact that Ythan threw a big fat "NO U" at cupcake. I find that to be quite anti-town, and scummy. When I get to the original arguments I'll see if Ythan's stance is solid, but that exchange is terrible.

[DTMaster]

EBWOP: Just some quick questions lol.

[Dekes]

Can we all come to the conclusion that Cupcake's claim may or may not be a fakeclaim?

Fact is, the claim seems somewhat consistent. Blue particles can logically be explained by Nayru's love. Nayru can be aligned to water and the mods may have turned this into her being aquatic. At least it's nothing to argue about over pages and pages. And we don't have a cc of Nayru (although honestly I doubted we'd get one anyway. I expect Reck to give out safeclaims. I don't think I've seen a a game from him where there weren't any fakeclaims given to scum.)

Fact is also, even if Cupcake is Nayru, the aquatic goddess, that still doesn't automatically determine her alignment. Reck loves scrambled flavor and we already have somebody who basically claimed being town-aligned Barinade.

@Kdub
Here's a case on Cupcake without any flavor speculaion in a nutshell. Add to this the fact she let LL do most of the defending. Yeah, I know, RL can be a bitch, but Katsuki (I don't know who the other head is) had an average post count of ten posts per day over the last week without any significant decrease on any given day, so why not pop in here and do the defending yourself?

@Ythan
The contradiction was only one part of the case. Point taken though. These contradictions are merely indicative of poor hydra communication, not necessarily scummy. I'd advise anyone to look into GIS' Iso themselves though. Especially the repeatedly cop-rolefishing and the calling on a policy lynch on a person cleared by cop, thus avoiding any real scumhunting, stick out.

[Just a Bit Off-Center]

Prod received. Having difficulty finding time to analyze the thread due to personal circumstances.

I will eventually have time to further study the Ythan v. Cupcake & Lambdadelta debate, but I believe that the sooner it is resolved, the better.

I apologize for the general lack of helpfulness of this post. I will make up for it when I can.

Farewell.

[Le Cupcake]

Kat speaking.

@Dekes: Regarding posts, I have issues with that interpretation. Firstly, half those posts are in forums that are non-game related (queue, etc.). Secondly, unless all you want from me is one-liners, then that is why I have not posted as much in this game as say small games.

Having played with me before, you know I post during class. I can not possibly analyze while paying attention.

[Mafuyu]

Hey, cupcake speaks.

Query: Why did you activate a protective ability Day 1?

[Le Cupcake]

Why not?
Daytime SK's are not unheard of.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I'm going to propose my theory again.

NOTE THAT THIS IS ALL SPECULATION BASED UPON THE BELIEF THAT CUPCAKE'S CLAIM/POWER IS REAL/TRUE

Cupcake, as Nayru, can protect ANY player at the beginning of the day. How long this would last is irrelevant, and I am unable to make speculation for it at this time.

If the above is true, then it explains why Cupcake activated her ability. If it was only self protection, then what would be the point in having it be active? Passive would be more likely. I thus theorize that either:

Cupcake is lying about the ability (not my personal belief, obviously)

OR

Cupcake's ability must have a REASON to be active.

If we go with the second option, the only logical reason I can see for it being active, are one of the 2 following.

1. Cupcake can only use the ability a certain amount of times in the game/the ability must re-charge.
2. Cupcake has the ability to protect ANY player of her choice with this power.

If the power has a refractory period, or limited usage, why would she use it Day 1? It's a waste, especially in a game with 27 other targets for people to choose from. (Despite this fact, Cupcake /WAS/ targetted... but I'm just supposing)

This leads me to one conclusion.

If Cupcake's power/claim is true, then Cupcake will most likely be able to choose the person she protects at the beginning of the day phase. This must include self protection.

I think this is a good analysis?

[BrookylnConstruction]

Ok guys... this is getting rather boring. no real content has occurred since Cupcake and LLD outed themselves. We need lynches. And now.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ok guys... this is getting rather boring. no real content has occurred since Cupcake and LLD outed themselves. We need lynches. And now.

This post has no relevance. What's the point in coming to the thread, completely ignoring a theory I post, and then going on to say that no content has been posted?

I just offered a theory! Comment on it if you want content!

Also, the part of the post in which you slip in the accusation directed towards me and Cupcake is subtle, yet ridiculous.

Stop trying to treat that statement like its a fact that's set in stone. It's not.

[BrookylnConstruction]

I think this is a good analysis?

Funny. I actually don't like it at all. usually players are not able to target themselves. Why would this game be any different. I think you're overanalyzing this situation WAY too much. He practically screamed bulletproof.

Also, please stop /using/ these /damn/ fucking slashes.