Stars Aligned III - The Tenth Day

[Benmage]

You're scum for wanting my lynch because you are unhappy in my dealings with fate and moreover that you'd suggest I'd go murderer after Modding me in ACoK. The latter is the damning part.

[hitogoroshi]

Seacore, you're focusing on Benmage on what has become a fairly stale issue (my understanding is that Benmage realizes the mistake in his position and no longer intends to follow through on the Fate stalk - please correct me if I'm wrong) and ignoring pretty much everything else. Benmage v. Fate was a distraction that we finally seem to have smoothed over. You trying to keep it alive is annoying enough on it's own. Throw in the fact that you're tunneling Benmage and ignoring basicially the rest of the thread, and that you've literally just said "I think you're scum, but if my arguments for why you're scum don't work, it's a policy lynch," and I am a seriously unhappy hito. Yes, Benmage acted childishly coming in here - and now that's he's showing signs of contrition and maturity, you desperately scrabbling to secure the mislynch is giving me bad vibes.

VOTE: Seacore

[Benmage]

Hito, there is too much wine for me to not kill fate. Plus I don't have a town read on her. And it still confirms me.....that said we should move on and focus elsewhere. I have another thing to address on the issue, but later.

[Seacore]

But it does not confirm you. You murdering Fate will confirm you as not-cult, this does not confirm you as somebody who is seeking the Investigator win condition.

I'm not tunneling, I'm addressing severe anti-town behaviour, and as you can see hito, the matter is not over, Benmage is still seeking to murder somebody for anti-town reasons.

[Baby Spice]

Still not convinced that Fur is confirmed and do not llike those that say he is. Also do not like that he seems to be trying to play to his meta. If he needs to play to his town meta then he is trying to hide how he plays imo.

Strongly suspecct Beenmage and Fate to both be investigators but Ben is most definately not town.

Unfortunately they are most of the thread.

[Furcolow]

I don't have to try to play my town meta
I don't care that players like you, xvart, MoI, or Andrius are haters. At all.

MOI was afraid of me when we were both online, and Xvart as well. They would rather attack me WAY after the fact, while I'm away.
I'm not sure if you're doing the same thing. I feel like you are just parroting, BS.

[Furcolow]

anyways, honestly, even if I'm not confirmed to you all I am 71.4% confirmed so ...

[Furcolow]

actually, 74.07%, sorry.

[Furpants_Tom]

I didn't like Furculow at first; but by Page 7, I agreed with him. I'm not umpiring between Fate and Benmage, I'd rather see if BenMage's claimed action eventuates. Lynching Fate (or Benmage, for that matter) robs us of information, no matter how teeth-gratingly annoying they both are. I wouldn't cry great big tears if we lynched BenMage tomorrow either way - because I don't like the idea of rewarding his obvious vendetta. Reading continues after the break...

[Furpants_Tom]

More post cherry-picking: I like SpyreX's #247. It's a fair call on AurousVox, and I salute him for scumhunting despite the background noise.

[Mina]

Fate, DGB /outed before the game started. That ruins your conspiracy theory.

I can barely keep my eyes open right now, but I owe it to my other head to pick up the slack. MWAHAHAHAHA, WALL POST TIME! (Posting this in two chunks.)

=================================================================

1) Furcolow

Furcolow, what made you decide to ward El Goosuki? Also, did you get a PM after sending in your action?

Eek. I wrote a huge post defending Furc, but then I noticed that Percy mod-confirming that an action on a player not in the game would default to Cower. So now I'm totally confused. I'm getting a strong gut town read from him, too. Also, wouldn't the Drippereth/El Goosuki discrepancy make just as little sense were he a cultist who'd targeted Drippereth with Craft Fetish?

Mod: would targeting an account belonging to a player in the game work even if it wasn't the account in the player list? Also, would you inform someone if he targeted a player not in the game

?)

But anyway, here's what I'd written before noticing that. Some of the reasoning is still relevant:

Apparently, this is one of those towns where everyone's super-paranoid about sharing their town reads so as not to help scum with their nightkill, so I won't go into all of mine, but to those still voting Furc...come

on

. Him being a cultist implies a level of sophistication and calculation that he hasn't demonstrated in the thread. Let's break this down:

-Furc claimed to have warded someone.
-He is then surprised he didn't hear noise, and comes up with outlandish conspiracy theories as to why it didn't work. So clearly, he thought that players were SUPPOSED to hear noise after warding.
-Instantly, Percy/Vi comes forward and says there was a mistake in the rules.
-Furc then says, totally nonchalantly, that he tried to target Drippereth, and comes up with a ridiculous theory that his target was redirected in alphabetical order, because it DIDN'T EVEN OCCUR TO HIM that there was a connection between him warding Drippereth and El Goosuki being warded.
-El Goosuki confirms he heard noise, resulting in it being close to confirmed that Furc warded Elli, which is a suboptimal move for a cultist who could have got away with Searching. (Also, the more expendable cultists--read: someone likely to be policy lynched--are more likely to be sent out to craft fetishes rather than perform "townish" looking actions.)
-He then acts with total confidence that he's confirmed town, tries to lead the town, and spams the thread with harebrained plans.

Even though I disagree with 90% of everything Furcolow's said so far, he's soooooo easy to read. I doubt he'd be this active and confident and free were he actually scum. Again...have you guys read a single post Furcolow has written all game? If he were that much of a Machiavellian schemer, his ideas wouldn't be so outlandish in the first place.

I tend toward paranoid conspiracy theories, and yet Cultist!Furcolow is paranoid even for me. And it's important to establish that Furcolow should not be lynched unless something major happens, because it's happened to me several times that I bring up strong evidence in favour of a VI, and then after my death everyone ignores it and lynches the VI anyway.

Also, I think it's much scummier to subtly discredit someone's "confirmed" status than try to confirm oneself. Magna/xvart/VP Baltar/AurorusVox/kunkstar, I'm looking straight in your direction.

================================================================

2) xvart

Hi Mina - I only posted the wards for the people who claimed them. Baby Spice also did not claim her ward target. At the time (and even now) I didn't know if claiming the ward target is in the town's best interest. I have no problem claiming my ward target. I do think we should come to a consensus about warding targets, but I'll defer to the setup freaks in the room on this one.

Saying you're waiting on the "set-up wizards" is a huge cop-out, particularly when half the people have already revealed their ward target and there's been extensive discussion as to the merits of Ward claiming (in which most of the set-up wizards voted affirmative). You don't have a single reason of

your own

for why you don't want to reveal your target? You're just delaying your claim and using the "set-up wizards" as a crutch? No thoughts on what the pros and cons are?

This reads like fence-sitting.

=================================================================

3) hitogoroshi

Speaking of fence-sitting, I've found hito's recent contribution very townish, but his first two posts bothered me in the same way xvart's posts bug me now:

I would appreciate if someone who has played in at least one previous Stars Aligned game would weigh in on the merits of noise-claiming versus not. We know that people who didn't hear noise today won't die tonight, but it also gives the cultists information and I'm not entirely convinced it's in our favor to claim noise. If a player heard noise and WASN'T targeted by cultists, cultists know they were either warded or stalked (or warded someone else.) The benefit to town seems smaller than this, and so

I'm leaning towards saying we shouldn't claim noise.

For the record, I'm not arguing that we shouldn't noise claim.

I'm just pointing out that there ARE negatives to noiseclaiming. There are positives as well, and they could well outweigh the bad stuff. That's why I'd like to hear from someone who's played Stars Aligned before. But with ReaperCharlie's first post being "I HEARD NOISE", I'm worried that people think there are no negatives.

hito, can you explain this? First you say you believe we

shouldn't

noise-claim. Then you change tunes and say we should probably massclaim, but you just wanted to helpfully inform us of its pitfalls. What caused this discrepancy?

===============================================================

4) Seacore

I haven't been enamoured of the Seacore wagon (having seen him as bumbling town in AGoT Mafia). That said...

I like the case on furcolow, I must have missed the case on Fate, so I'll revisit.

Um...why do you like the case on him?

You don't follow up on the Furcolow case once after this. It looks like easy wagoning.

Either way, you've behaved incredibly anti-town and, assuming nobody digs themselves in deeper, I'd be happy to see you hang for it.

Please elaborate on this.

Do you realize that the antitown action Benmage ostensibly committed--stalking Fate--could have only happened IF BENMAGE IS TOWN?

Do you think Benmage is scum or just a townie playing badly? What do you think his scum motivation is for playing this way?

[Mina]

EBWOP: replace "easy wagoning" in reference to Seacore's comment about Furcolow with "softly supporting the wagon and/or distancing."

=================================================================

5) Benmage

It's not like Benmage will actually listen to me, but I'm totally against Benmage killing Fate tonight. The only useful purpose of going through with the Stalk is confirming Benmage and getting rid of Fate if we think he's scum. And I agree with SpyreX that their motivations don't make much sense unless they're both town. Therefore, the costs outweigh the benefits. But yeah, someone should resuscitate Fate tonight.

Benmage, is your only reason for suspecting Fate that he didn't Stalk you last night? You have nothing better than that? Also, why haven't you responded to the argument that he'd have crafted a fetish of you or asked a buddy to ward him were he cult?

Because it's starting to look like you have no reason whatsoever for suspecting Fate, but are just trying to rationalize your playing against your win condition to yourself because you're blinded by spite.

My #3,4 and 5 scums are MoI Spy and Andrius....will say more later when on a computer.

I'd be sincerely interested in a solid case against any of these players. Why are they on your suspect list? Also, why didn't you follow up on this?

=================================================================

6) VP Baltar

Both Faraday and I got "bad vibes" (yes, that's very concrete and damning evidence) from Baltar's one post. Maybe it's all the smileys. But anyway, answers to his questions.

Anyone have another choice?

I'm kind of curious, so do you think eliminating cult or potential murderers is more critical on Day 1? Why?

I'm not sure (cult gives us connections, while the deaths of individual murderers prevent more future nightkills). Probably cult, since we don't know how many (if any) potential murderers are out there.

But when I'm basing my suggestion for first noise claim solely on people's posts in the sign-up thread before a single role PM was sent out? There's no evidence whatsoever suggesting who might be a cultist, but there's evidence suggesting who might go murderer.

2) It might be interesting to see how the numbers match up (if a suspiciously high or suspiciously low number of people claim to have heard noise, for example).

This is an odd thing to say. what's a suspiciously high or low number of players?[/quote]
Meh, on thinking things through, it probably wouldn't help THAT much, since apparently I'd underestimated the number of fetishes that could be passed out on N0. I thought it might tell us id there were murderers out there. Maybe looking at the Noise/No Noise claims might let us predict the distribution of cultists in each category?

I haven't played either of the SAs, but I don't get your argument. How does it help the cultists to know that someone was warded or stalked on N0?

He's saying then the cult would be better equipped to aim their NKs the following night.

This argument doesn't make sense, because the cultists would already know who'd been warded by whether Craft Fetish succeeded. And if someone had been stalked AND had a fetish crafted, cultists wouldn't know they shouldn't waste a kill on him. But this is a moot point now.

I warded El Goosuki
MoI pushing policy lynch D1 when it should be RVS is suspicious, but he's just mad I got him lynched in ReaperCharlie's mini theme 1000.
I did not hear noise last night.

Sigh, I may need to retract my previous statement. WHY WOULD YOU CLAIM THIS WITHOUT BEING ASKED TO!

This was after I'd suggested a mass noise/ward claim. So it wasn't completely out of nowhere.

Additionally, why should I believe you are town this game Fur when you wanted to go murderer so badly in the last one?

Link?

But anyway, there is strong evidence implying that Furc warded on N1, which is a suboptimal action for a wannabe murderer.

Bowser's vote is opportunistic and silly.

Vote: Bowser

You realize that Bowser is CSL, right?

I mean...you've played with CSL before. Do you think his vote is out of character with his town self?

================================================================

There's more worth commenting on, but I'm too sleepy now. Off to bed for me.

[Mina]

Strongly suspecct Beenmage and Fate to

both be investigators

but

Ben is most definately not town.

Um...

...

...

.....

.........................................

...

yeah

. *brain explodes*

[Lost Butterfly]

Uh-oh.

Did I just unwittingly post five thousand words from the wrong account?

Normally, I'd requote 385-387 for ISO purposes, but I don't think people want to scroll through those

twice

.

One last point. The Triglav wagon is really Faraday's baby, but stuff I noticed:

1) Triglav, did you ward last night--and if so, whom?

2)

Furcolow seems to somehow make less sense with every single post. Was unaware this was possible.
Most players seem to be simple going through their usual meta dance at the beginning. Nothing exciting or worthwhile yet.

So...um, do you find the fact that Furcolow makes no sense scummy? No opinion whatsoever on his alignment?

No opinions on

anyone

? What do you mean by "meta dance"?

Now I'm really off to bed.

[Baby Spice]

An investigator,who is almost by definition in this game a townie, that decides or tries to go murderer must be a not town townie. At least until they get their second kill and become pure not town.

I strongly suspect that Ben wants/wanted to go murderer hence what I said.

[VasudeVa]

Scumreads off the top of my head:
Furpants Tom
Seacore
Bowser
Baby Spice
Lost Butterfly

I'll explain soon, when I get my thoughts in order.

I'm actually afraid of sleeping because of this game. I don't want to wake up with 15 pages to read.

[Furpants_Tom]

Andrius #272, Plum #296, xvart #329 & #331, MoI #337 - mad props for commitment to sparkle motion, there. Fraid I can't match y'all.

ReaperCharlie - Eh, not sold on Seacore. I'll confess, I know him out of game, which might be flavouring it; but I had the same reaction reading those early posts as he did.

I'm still not sure about Furcolow's "confirmation". Yes, everything points that way, and he's not on my scumlist so far; but when you're trying to second guess mod mistakes, there's a strong chance that you're reading their moves the wrong way - seeing as how they don't have a win condition to filter it through. Keeping an open mind, here.

Love Percy's answer on Sadism. Would be willing to help engineer this situation for lulz.

Hito's #332. Yeah, fair point, I'll keep all my posts clumped together from now on.

By #342 I'm having trouble reading Andrius, due to my CAPSLOCK allergy. I'm sure he made many useful points.

My one thought of perhaps substantive use:
I don't think Hallucination belongs on that list of prohibited insanities; at least, not once somebody has heard unexplained noise at least once. There's a good townie deception play in fake-claiming hallucination; and it doesn't much of a mechanical benefit for cult from it, so far as I can see.

Wait, why is BenMage now not killing Fate?
Are we seriously going to let him claim a free insanity and not prove his townie-ness by following through on his threat? And we won't know if AV's scum until at least D3; so that's a fair while for all of us to live in doubt... I have no idea why scum would act like BenMage in the first place, but I can't help but think SpyreX is giving him an out. Maybe there is a fetish of Fate already out there, one not created by Benmage, who was actually stalking him. Maybe the cult is now concerned that more than one investigator with res kits will now be watching Fate's back; and would prefer this protective field dissipate. In that case, maybe you'd ask Benmage to commit publicly to NOT kill Fate, and then lead the charge to string him from the nearest tree at the start of Day 2, when Fate's body is found, scattered like sticky red confetti. Playing peacekeeper in this case is kinda suss, if you ask me.

Sorry, Seacore, I just don't see how Benmage's actions make for any sort of rational scum play. Even of the double/triple/quintuple bluff variety.

I'll

Vote: SpyreX

because I'm still not really sure why he's so sure both Benmage and Fate are town.

[Furpants_Tom]

Scumreads off the top of my head:
Furpants Tom
...

Number 1 with a bullet. Badass. It's a list of the people who have only posted to agree with other people, isn't it?

[Seacore]

===============================================================

4) Seacore

I haven't been enamoured of the Seacore wagon (having seen him as bumbling town in AGoT Mafia). That said...

I like the case on furcolow, I must have missed the case on Fate, so I'll revisit.

Um...why do you like the case on him?

You don't follow up on the Furcolow case once after this. It looks like easy wagoning.

Either way, you've behaved incredibly anti-town and, assuming nobody digs themselves in deeper, I'd be happy to see you hang for it.

Please elaborate on this.

Do you realize that the antitown action Benmage ostensibly committed--stalking Fate--could have only happened IF BENMAGE IS TOWN?

Do you think Benmage is scum or just a townie playing badly? What do you think his scum motivation is for playing this way?

Thank you

Mina

Lost Butterfly

Okay, it's true, I didn't follow up on the Furcolow thing, but I also didn't vote for him. Yeah, that doesn't count for too much, but I was out all day in between the early posts and the late ones. At the time, it seemed he'd been caught in a lie. Now that seems unlikely. I was also distracted by the Fate/Benmage lovers tiff.

Also, when I did my reread (true, it was a skim) I noticed somebody waiting for a mod clarification on Fur, and I was kinda waiting for that.

On the other matter, you are confusing Town with Investigator. These two things are not the same.
"Town" = Investigators who stay true to their win condition and do not seek to become murderers.
I declare that, in the case that Benmage is telling the truth about his stalk, then he is an investigator, but he is not town.
In the event that he is "Town", he's a crap one who is willing to commit anti-town acts.

It is the job of "Town" to not just kill cultists, but to also kill murderers. In this latter group I would also include investigators who seem to want to become murderers.

I'd like to emphasise that last point because a lot of people seem to have missed it.

Investigator does not equal "Town" in the usual sense.
"Town" + "Wannabe murderers" = Investigators

[Lost Butterfly]

Fate, DGB /outed before the game started. That ruins your conspiracy theory.

I can barely keep my eyes open right now, but I owe it to my other head to pick up the slack. MWAHAHAHAHA, WALL POST TIME! (Posting this in two chunks.)

DGB is apparently playing though according to Elli (it's a 3 way hydra) so not quite. It actually makes some sort of sense as crazy theories go, but I think furc looks pretty town here so I'm not sold on it, although Percy's next answer should help.

[Furcolow]

am i voting seacore?

vote: seacore

[Baby Spice]

I should take a breather, and collect myself. Should. I'm not going to. You know why? Because it would not fit my town meta.

I don't have to try to play my town meta

You don't have to play to your town meta but you are? I don't understand.

You are flogging "mod confirmed" for some reason, but you're not. (Considering my last two larges are 'mod error affcted' I bloody well hope not)

You claimed a ward on someone who wasn't in the game (technically) but didn't end up cowering like the mod says should have happened.
(I remember Elibereth in the signup thread claiming a spot as Drippereth but stopped paying attention to it not long after.)

Mod. Was Drippereth ever listed as in the game in post 0 of the game thread?

You claim that the mod changed the rules because of a pm from you, but I think the rules for ward were already that way. It was the section under hearing noise that was changed. 30 minutes or so after MoI brought it up by quoting the hearing noise section. (post #7)

FOS Furcolow

I can't think of a pro-town reason to explain this, but I can't think of a culty reason either.

[Furcolow]

percy doesnt need to answer. i can answer. warding dripping goofball/ellibereth rounds up obviously
i was over half right
sue me
leave percy alone, lets have a good game. this game is complex, but you all are not children.

baby spice, you are about to bring out the ad hom in me

[Furcolow]

how am i so polarizing
i get pro-town and FoS in back to back posts
i don't see how you all don't love me

[Percy]

Mod: would targeting an account belonging to a player in the game work even if it wasn't the account in the player list? Also, would you inform someone if he targeted a player not in the game?

Let's play hypotheticals.

If I received an action that was ambiguous or contradictory (as to what action was selected, who was the target, or they tried to double-

Search

or whatever), I would send a clarification PM. If I were to receive no reply, the player would default to

Cower

.

If, however, there is a technical error but

no ambiguity

, I will accept the action as-is. An example would be someone who submitted the

Night Action

Search:

Forensic Kit

There is no item by this name, but the intention (

Forensic

Tools

) is clear.


On an unrelated note, I urge those of you who are playing with hydra accounts to use them to post. It is important for players who wish to use the ISO function to quickly find your content. If you

do

post in your regular account, post a message from your hydra account directly after it with the text "Sorry, please merge previous post with this one" or words to that effect. I'll come through and copy-paste the content into the hydra account post.